HR "professionals" in this country disgraced themselves -- forever, in my mind. While the denial of religious expression was a feature of this despicable conduct, the unforgiveable underbelly was the willingness to deny basic human rights. As you probably know, I gave up my career in HR because I knew in 2020 that my "fellow Americans" in HR would conduct themselves in this way and I refused to be a party to it.
So, wonkiness here -- Religious exemptions are not "granted." Individuals invoke them and companies accommodate them unless they, the company, can prove "undue hardship."
BTW, religious "tests" are also disallowed by law, but our "fellow Americans" did it anyway. Truly, truly, truly disgusting. And unforgiveable.
My employer is a federal contractor and I insisted they accommodate my sincere religious beliefs regarding vaccination. I backed this up with Bible citations, excerpts from relevant case law, and writing from the EEOC. I made clear to them that I knew my rights under the law and would aggressively defend them if they were violated, and hold those who violated my rights personally accountable.. My accommodation request was granted.
What people don't understand is there is no impartial referee calling balls and strikes on religious accommodations. People were granted accommodations because the company and HR people were afraid they would get sued if they didn't. Like most bureaucrats, they are bullies, but even more so cowards.
Good for you, Jeff C. I'm just sorry your fellow Americans put you in a position of having to do that. My own experience is 180 degrees out of phase with that. (BTW, I cannot think of a single religious or medical exemption that was ever denied; at least, that's my experience. I cannot imagine the circumstances that would have to be in play in order for a company to invoke "undue hardship" as its reason for denial...)
When I tell you that at the very beginning of this, which I knew was an "operation" immediately, I could tell that it was going to go very badly. As my company ramped up to send us all home, I attended meetings about how we would operate from home. (I was a senior member of the HR team, reporting to the head of HR and the Chief of Staff) During these run-up meetings, I looked around at these three women and knew my days were numbered. It was truly like being in a parallel universe. Like being outside myself watching and listening to what was being said, what the company was going to do, and thinking I have just entered an insane asylum...I was gone by the end of the year.
Thanks for fighting the good fight while you were there.
What these folks fail to realize is that the CRA is crystal clear. Employers must provide a reasonable accommodation for sincerely held religious beliefs unless doing so would cause an undue hardship. Period, end of story. Sanctimony or good intentions (in their mind) don't invalidate the law as many companies are now learning the hard way.
But the government, media, and medical establishment all ganged up to pressure these companies into doing their dirty work. Many of these HR types, filled with an inflated sense of sanctimony, were happy to play along. I needed to remind our HR exactly what the law said and that I would sue them if they didn't follow it.
Companies cannot make you prove your religious beliefs are consistent or logical. They cannot require a letter from a religious leader (the spiritual equivalent of a doctor's note). All of that stuff is illegal under the CRA and subsequent case law. My company requested a note from a religious leader and I told them to go pound sand (politely) while pointing out there was no basis for it under the law or scripture.
Plus I'm in a good position where they needed me more than I needed them, and frankly I was ready for a fight on this issue. Ultimately, they were more afraid of losing me, and being sued by me afterwards, than they were of the government. Accommodation granted.
I was lucky (or determined) enough to do as Jeff C. did and find the legal means to defend my ground, including the EEOC handbook. I never really sensed a push back from my HR, and I read the CEO's letter mandating the vax's as almost a veiled willingness to accommodate all requests.
"I cannot imagine the circumstances that would have to be in play in order for a company to invoke "undue hardship" as its reason for denial...)"
We'd been accommodating the situation with remote work and masks and such for more than a year at that point. Exactly how could continuing those accommodations be seen as any hardship, much less an undue one?
My thought now is that every CEO in the country (and possibly the entire world) now knows that the vaccines harm and kill working age people just from the 125% plus increase in the supplemental life insurance fees. Zero chance they didn't notice that increase and not ask why... unless they already knew why.
James, your second paragraph...π¬ππππππ! That's what I was driving at. Now...now that we're headed back into our offices after having worked remotely and been forced to mask, now suddenly we're unable to figure out how to accommodate someone who declines an experimental medical intervention..? What utter bull.
No religious exemption for a medical intervention should be denied by an employer.
When my employees were unsure about the sweeping employer mandated vax requirements our state was illegally implementing, I told them, file a religious exemption if you feel the vaccine's origins conflict with your belief in the sanctity of life.
Bingo. 5 exemptions. All granted.
Subsequently, I was asked by others in my field how could I be sure the exemptions were valid. The answer was simple. How could I know they weren't?
My deep respect to you Kathleen for getting out. Integrity comes with a cost and you were willing to pay it. HR people by and large remind me of the fanatical Red Guards of the Cultural Revolution. They were tasked with the job of enforcing dramatic social change to benefit the regime and they did this with enthusiastic cruelty. But their day will come. As for the guy who was cleared of charges for going against the COVID narrative, this is good but not enough. He should sue his tormentors for the misery they put him through. If there were a large financial settlement maybe it would deter other little dictators. One can hope.
I agree re Michigan State and Skidmore. Absolutely horrendous, but not surprising. As I've often said over these last going-on-nearly four years, βπͺππππππππππππ π π πππ ππππ πππ πππ; ππππ ππππππ ππππππ πππ ππ πππππππ.β - π¬ππππππππ
Certainly, the majority of people in this country -- especially "leadership" in government, academia, business, science and medicine -- revealed themselves to ππππππππ π.
Thanks for spelling this out. It is akin to saying "The Constitution gives us rights." No, it protects the rights that God gives us. It always infuriated me that I even HAD to jump through the hoops of delineating my religious exemption. And although I was "accommodated" for not getting the jabs (though forced to work remotely), I was NOT for refusal to mask and test. Because "undue hardship" aka THREAT to students and other university colleagues (I was teaching, at the time).
So I quit.
You are right. Disgusting, and also disgusting was how many pastors and churches went along with this.
You had every reason to be infuriated, Michele. I'm very sorry for the assaults inflicted upon you. I'm sorry you had to quit, but I understand why you did.
I worked with some very lovely people in HR over the years. Yet they, like most "Americans," conducted themselves disgracefully. As you can imagine, I knew many, many people in the HR profession and was connected to many more on LinkedIn. To my knowledge, I am the only one who quit instead of "accommodating" the madness and criminality.
Oh, dear. Well, I have heard similar comments about HR over the years, Fred.
I worked in recruiting, which in many organizations is a part of the HR department. In others, recruiting is its own separate functional area outside of HR. I will say that in my last role, leading all domestic and international recruiting, that the woman to whom I reported "got" that recruiting was its own "animal," related to HR, but different. :) She often had to remind the other senior HR staff about this -- none of whom had ever done recruiting nor did they ever express any wish to. All thought it too hard, too many constituents inside and outside with multiple demands. I enjoyed it, and my last company treated me exceptionally well until they all went around the bend over a respiratory infection, aiding and abetting the greatest crime against humanity after the one -- some say -- that took place in Calgary...
Kathleen, I'm going to get a little "wonky" on this topic since I spent nearly 20 years of a near 40 year career in HR.
Over the years, I had several requests for religious and medical ππππππππ πππππ. We did not grant the exemption because it already existed as a π§ππππ©. We accommodated it -- as required by law and decency. Companies don't decide whether they will accommodate or not...They must -- unless they can prove "undue hardship." What possible "hardship" could they imagine beyond their abilities to accommodate when someone chose to decline a medical intervention?
HR "professionals" in this country disgraced themselves -- forever, in my mind. While the denial of religious expression was a feature of this despicable conduct, the unforgiveable underbelly was the willingness to deny basic human rights. As you probably know, I gave up my career in HR because I knew in 2020 that my "fellow Americans" in HR would conduct themselves in this way and I refused to be a party to it.
So, wonkiness here -- Religious exemptions are not "granted." Individuals invoke them and companies accommodate them unless they, the company, can prove "undue hardship."
BTW, religious "tests" are also disallowed by law, but our "fellow Americans" did it anyway. Truly, truly, truly disgusting. And unforgiveable.
Yup, this is exactly right.
My employer is a federal contractor and I insisted they accommodate my sincere religious beliefs regarding vaccination. I backed this up with Bible citations, excerpts from relevant case law, and writing from the EEOC. I made clear to them that I knew my rights under the law and would aggressively defend them if they were violated, and hold those who violated my rights personally accountable.. My accommodation request was granted.
What people don't understand is there is no impartial referee calling balls and strikes on religious accommodations. People were granted accommodations because the company and HR people were afraid they would get sued if they didn't. Like most bureaucrats, they are bullies, but even more so cowards.
Good for you, Jeff C. I'm just sorry your fellow Americans put you in a position of having to do that. My own experience is 180 degrees out of phase with that. (BTW, I cannot think of a single religious or medical exemption that was ever denied; at least, that's my experience. I cannot imagine the circumstances that would have to be in play in order for a company to invoke "undue hardship" as its reason for denial...)
When I tell you that at the very beginning of this, which I knew was an "operation" immediately, I could tell that it was going to go very badly. As my company ramped up to send us all home, I attended meetings about how we would operate from home. (I was a senior member of the HR team, reporting to the head of HR and the Chief of Staff) During these run-up meetings, I looked around at these three women and knew my days were numbered. It was truly like being in a parallel universe. Like being outside myself watching and listening to what was being said, what the company was going to do, and thinking I have just entered an insane asylum...I was gone by the end of the year.
Thanks for fighting the good fight while you were there.
What these folks fail to realize is that the CRA is crystal clear. Employers must provide a reasonable accommodation for sincerely held religious beliefs unless doing so would cause an undue hardship. Period, end of story. Sanctimony or good intentions (in their mind) don't invalidate the law as many companies are now learning the hard way.
But the government, media, and medical establishment all ganged up to pressure these companies into doing their dirty work. Many of these HR types, filled with an inflated sense of sanctimony, were happy to play along. I needed to remind our HR exactly what the law said and that I would sue them if they didn't follow it.
Companies cannot make you prove your religious beliefs are consistent or logical. They cannot require a letter from a religious leader (the spiritual equivalent of a doctor's note). All of that stuff is illegal under the CRA and subsequent case law. My company requested a note from a religious leader and I told them to go pound sand (politely) while pointing out there was no basis for it under the law or scripture.
Plus I'm in a good position where they needed me more than I needed them, and frankly I was ready for a fight on this issue. Ultimately, they were more afraid of losing me, and being sued by me afterwards, than they were of the government. Accommodation granted.
I was lucky (or determined) enough to do as Jeff C. did and find the legal means to defend my ground, including the EEOC handbook. I never really sensed a push back from my HR, and I read the CEO's letter mandating the vax's as almost a veiled willingness to accommodate all requests.
"I cannot imagine the circumstances that would have to be in play in order for a company to invoke "undue hardship" as its reason for denial...)"
We'd been accommodating the situation with remote work and masks and such for more than a year at that point. Exactly how could continuing those accommodations be seen as any hardship, much less an undue one?
My thought now is that every CEO in the country (and possibly the entire world) now knows that the vaccines harm and kill working age people just from the 125% plus increase in the supplemental life insurance fees. Zero chance they didn't notice that increase and not ask why... unless they already knew why.
James, your second paragraph...π¬ππππππ! That's what I was driving at. Now...now that we're headed back into our offices after having worked remotely and been forced to mask, now suddenly we're unable to figure out how to accommodate someone who declines an experimental medical intervention..? What utter bull.
Yet the cowards all across "the fruited plain" abused their employees and broke the law by refusing to accommodate. I'm very happy you got yours, which was your π§ππππ©.
No religious exemption for a medical intervention should be denied by an employer.
When my employees were unsure about the sweeping employer mandated vax requirements our state was illegally implementing, I told them, file a religious exemption if you feel the vaccine's origins conflict with your belief in the sanctity of life.
Bingo. 5 exemptions. All granted.
Subsequently, I was asked by others in my field how could I be sure the exemptions were valid. The answer was simple. How could I know they weren't?
My deep respect to you Kathleen for getting out. Integrity comes with a cost and you were willing to pay it. HR people by and large remind me of the fanatical Red Guards of the Cultural Revolution. They were tasked with the job of enforcing dramatic social change to benefit the regime and they did this with enthusiastic cruelty. But their day will come. As for the guy who was cleared of charges for going against the COVID narrative, this is good but not enough. He should sue his tormentors for the misery they put him through. If there were a large financial settlement maybe it would deter other little dictators. One can hope.
Thank you, Credenda. β€οΈ
I agree re Michigan State and Skidmore. Absolutely horrendous, but not surprising. As I've often said over these last going-on-nearly four years, βπͺππππππππππππ π π πππ ππππ πππ πππ; ππππ ππππππ ππππππ πππ ππ πππππππ.β - π¬ππππππππ
Certainly, the majority of people in this country -- especially "leadership" in government, academia, business, science and medicine -- revealed themselves to ππππππππ π.
Thanks for spelling this out. It is akin to saying "The Constitution gives us rights." No, it protects the rights that God gives us. It always infuriated me that I even HAD to jump through the hoops of delineating my religious exemption. And although I was "accommodated" for not getting the jabs (though forced to work remotely), I was NOT for refusal to mask and test. Because "undue hardship" aka THREAT to students and other university colleagues (I was teaching, at the time).
So I quit.
You are right. Disgusting, and also disgusting was how many pastors and churches went along with this.
You had every reason to be infuriated, Michele. I'm very sorry for the assaults inflicted upon you. I'm sorry you had to quit, but I understand why you did.
Inexcusable. Unforgiveable. All of it.
The people who work in HR are not people persons.
I worked with some very lovely people in HR over the years. Yet they, like most "Americans," conducted themselves disgracefully. As you can imagine, I knew many, many people in the HR profession and was connected to many more on LinkedIn. To my knowledge, I am the only one who quit instead of "accommodating" the madness and criminality.
In my entire career I never met (or litigated with) an HR person that I would not have GLADLY put against a wall and shot.
A greater hive of villainy and scum does not exist than any given HR department.
Oh, dear. Well, I have heard similar comments about HR over the years, Fred.
I worked in recruiting, which in many organizations is a part of the HR department. In others, recruiting is its own separate functional area outside of HR. I will say that in my last role, leading all domestic and international recruiting, that the woman to whom I reported "got" that recruiting was its own "animal," related to HR, but different. :) She often had to remind the other senior HR staff about this -- none of whom had ever done recruiting nor did they ever express any wish to. All thought it too hard, too many constituents inside and outside with multiple demands. I enjoyed it, and my last company treated me exceptionally well until they all went around the bend over a respiratory infection, aiding and abetting the greatest crime against humanity after the one -- some say -- that took place in Calgary...
You mean they are tools for the tyrannical among us?
Yes...they were the hammers.
Thank you for your wonkiness :)
Yes!