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I mean, isn't this issue debated on a daily basis in homeless enclaves like San Francisco? Despite the obvious mental illness of some homeless people, you cannot find anyone who advocates for forcibly medicating people. Also, we used to allow people to reject medical treatment all the time. Can you imagine saying to a JW, "sorry, you have to take the blood transfusion"? Or a person, like my mom who refused further chemo, "Sorry - it's for your own good." I think enough Pandora boxes have been opened in the last four years.
It is. But the question is, how do the maskers threaten your physical well-being? They don’t. And they don’t have any power without the force of government.
From what I’ve read, most people don’t replace their masks anywhere near often enough. And they become covered with bacteria and fungi. Personally for this reason, I try to stay away from people wearing masks.
On a deeper level, a mask wearer, I know, cannot be counted on to help the rest of us fight the descending darkness of tyranny we’re seeing.
So, I’m not so sure that mask wearers aren’t a threat to the rest of us.
Agree. Those things are so disgusting. I started throwing a fit once I saw how gross those things were coming home on my kids faces. I still worry about permanent damage they might've done. At least we were successful at getting them off them sooner - we were able to get exemption forms, so many of our kids were barefaced relatively quickly. At first we were treated like pariahs, but eventually we kept pushing and the rest joined us.
the maskers ARE a hrat to us but in a non-direct way. WHen I come across a goon in a mug nappie he does not directly threaten ME or my health/safety. I am immune to his mental instability, which I deem NOT contagious. I will not let one of them get close enough to me to actually transmit any of his pathogens physically to me.
So no, they should NOT be forced to doff their face nappies. Let them stew in their own filth. Not MY problem until they attempt to force ME to put one on.
The mask is the outward sign of the inward acquiescence to embrace the needle intervention. If more humans would not have complied with masks, I do believe the bio-jabs would not have been given the traction necessary and might have forced a re-evaluation. By who? By those with less than stellar critical thinking skills, which has turned out to be a good number of the global population, especially in the west.
true, but then they go around voting in people like Hochul who will throw us in camps for not vaccinating, and that is a direct threat to our well being.
I know you were, but thinking about it logically, you could say that the anti-vaxxers were considered a threat during Covid. So I felt I had to respond seriously.
They can vote so that may threaten my physical well-being. They are brainwashed so they already think we are a threat. They are the scary unknown if things go south eg. Nazi brownshirts. they will turn you in to the government.
Reasonably, if someone is a threat to others, they can’t be allowed in society. We used to understand this but we’ve become so irrational and illogical (not to mention how some abused their power) that we’ve totally abandoned any action that would protect us.
I think the struggle is, who gets to decide if someone is a danger to others? During COVID, we were all assured that if we questioned the narrative or refused to be jabbed, *we* were a clear and present danger to the safety of others. For some cases, like the one in this Stack, it’s obvious. This guy is clinically insane and needs to be kept away from society. But then things can get fuzzy/gray. Who gets to decide if your actions (or inactions) are a danger to others? You’re right - we *used* to be able to make those determinations. But now everyone is convinced that even differing opinions are dangerous. I don’t know how we climb back up this slippery slope…
As a traditional Roman Catholic I am now considered a threat by the US government. I go to church daily, pray the rosary and cut my grass and post snark on this website and not much else. But I’m a threat to democracy. If Trump doesn’t win this will get ugly(er) fast. Look at what Biden has managed to do in 3 1/2 years. It’s mind boggling and almost impressive.
Leftist Courts/Judges are USING this madman for political/social means, NOT to administer "justice". Their means are masquerading for the ends they want primarily and they enjoy their own delusion of Law. We're to accept this all as honest and forthright process of persons of station and respectability rather than the greater Cultural Mental erosion that these "justices" are themselves afflicted with.
When proper consequences are again imposed for actual harm, we can slow down imagining and harassing people for potential harm. I don’t know if “the Supreme Court roundly rejected prior constraint,” but the Dude’s buddy Walter testified so.
I don’t mind if some random person thinks by cutting his penis off, he can be a woman. What I do mind is the teachers that teach it, the media that reinforces it, the doctors that practice it, and the government mandating we all believe it. The only way we get back to sanity is by embracing the One who created our rational minds. I do worry that He has given us over to our reprobate minds…
Right? If an animal went on a rampage that killed three and wounded others, the penalty would be death. I’m not convinced that shouldn’t be the penalty for this man as well. However, he’s not just an animal; he’s a man, created in the image of God. Part of me thinks this affords him some consideration I wouldn’t grant to an animal. The other part of me believes that by his actions, he has abandoned the distinction.
He’s obviously mentally ill. He doesn’t have the capacity to understand the situation. We are a civilized nation. We don’t kill people who have diminished capacity.
I imagine many people were put in asylums, held as hostages, and medicated when it suited a powerful person's interests. Then, they experimented on them without any oversight or protection.
Now jail serves as these places to put people who are unable to function appropriately in society and they are privately owned raking in big bucks from the taxpayers. Most deserve it but so many do not. A relative of mine served 9 years for theft and the treatment was pretty bad in there. Meanwhile, people commit murder and spend less time?
When there is room for people in jail, they make sure the spaces are filled. THAT is truth...
Good point, but if you think about it, this forced institutionalization is already done against elderly people. I know because it happened to one of my parents -- forced guardianship by the county that my parent lived in.
Theoretically yes on reopening the asylums. Currently the mentally ill are put in jail and because they cannot be medicated forcefully, they are a danger to themselves and the people who incarcerate them. My husband just retired from law enforcement after 20years and the stories around dealing with the severely mentally ill, would curl your hair. There is a legal threshold in some states for the forced medication of the severely mentally ill and in our state, in his 20 years, my husband never saw it court ordered (we live in a very blue state). I agree on principle that legislating the forced medication of anyone is the beginning of the slippery slope. However the default people in society who are forced to deal with these people, our LEO’s need tools. When an insane person smears feces all over their cell wall, eats it and won’t come out or eat the food provided by the facility, they are forced to extract that person ( for the perpetrators saftey of course). Being able to tranq dart someone like that would be invaluable. So where is the line and how do we deal with the truly insane who are a danger to themselves and others? Is it love or kindness to allow a person to die from infection because they smeared their own fecal matter into self inflicted wounds? Once again I agree that the forced medication of anyone isn’t going to end well, but what do we do with the insane if we aren’t going to use meds?
Some neighbors have a mentally ill (bi-polar) son living with them. He’s almost 40. Can’t hold a job, drinks and goes off his meds. He has become increasingly violent. He says he hears voices, sometimes he wanders the streets at night yelling at mailboxes. The cops have come and arrested him but there is little they can do longer term. He needs an institution but there don’t seem to be any. It’s an impossible situation. They should be enjoying their retirement but are prisoners in their own home dealing with this.
I commented elsewhere about my experience with patients improving on a locked psych ward, given (sometimes forced) medications, but left out the part about how many stop taking their meds after discharge. A lot. Rinse and repeat. It's very sad for the families.
As you know I am sure, medication is by far and away a perhaps necessary immediate intervention. However, there are numerous alternative therapies that are much less harmful yet still effective.
One functional psychiatrist whose book I have upstairs said that many schizophrenic folks improve significantly with a gluten free diet. Many need elimination of chocolate (which a friend recently told me share antigenic similarity with gluten).
Solid treatment of developmental trauma via body-based therapies like EMDR, somatic awareness therapy, and others; in conjunction with perhaps body work like chiropractic, acupuncture, craniosacral.
And of course supporting the body hormone systems with the right kinds and sources of herbs, vitamins, minerals can help calm the nervous system so that folks can exercise self-control more readily.
Granted, this is more time and person intensive than injecting meds or giving pills. However, none of those are actually curative. They only suppress symptoms. Which, while absolutely acutely necessary in a crisis, is not a helpful long term solution for patients or families.
My RN wife has picked up a few temp fill-in jobs at mental health facilities where people having psychological break-downs are taken. Believe it not, many people are simply too insane to be allowed to go to jail.
So these temporary half-way houses are established, and the ones who exhibit serious violent or self-harm behavior are taken there instead of jail. After a few days, they let them back out. Wash, rinse, repeat.
Mental illness / addiction is actually far worse a problem than most understand.
Medication is by far and away a perhaps necessary immediate intervention. However, there are numerous alternative therapies that are much less harmful yet still effective.
One functional psychiatrist whose book I have upstairs said that many schizophrenic folks improve significantly with a gluten free diet. Many need elimination of chocolate (which a friend recently told me share antigenic similarity with gluten).
Solid treatment of developmental trauma via body-based therapies like EMDR, somatic awareness therapy, and others; in conjunction with perhaps body work like chiropractic, acupuncture, craniosacral.
And of course supporting the body hormone systems with the right kinds and sources of herbs, vitamins, minerals can help calm the nervous system so that folks can exercise self-control more readily.
Granted, this is more time and person intensive than injecting meds or giving pills. However, none of those are actually curative. They only suppress symptoms. Which, while absolutely acutely necessary in a crisis, is not a helpful long term solution for patients or families.
Excellent points! I’m sure many have not thought about it from the law enforcement perspective. They should be able to tranquillize someone like that. There would need to be safeguards in place so forced medication is not abused.
Unfortunately, those mental institutions are hellholes of patient abuse - One Flew over the Cuckoo’s Nest is not an exaggeration. The patients there are forced to take drugs, we just don’t have to see them.
So we don’t lock up the few to protect the many because the few were grievously abused?
I am not advocating for abuse. I’m just saying, we’re sacrificing society in total because the minority who were locked up were abused and that’s a complete abandonment of logic, reason, sanity, and compassion.
Sadly that’s where we’ve landed in this world of misplaced ideology.
President Bukele of El Salvador said on the Tucker show that when they when they were rounding up and imprisoning violent gang members, the human rights organizations came out of the woodwork to defend the killers.
We’re so concerned about proper treatment of felons, illegal invaders, drug addicts etc; what about the rights of law abiding citizens to live peacefully without all of their nonsense?
We used to do that until progressives started yelling about how the civil rights of the insane trump the needs of a secure society. Leftists see Dickensian urban hellholes every where the rights of the many are defended.
I don’t think it’s an accident that this is the case that will determine if someone can be force medicated. It’s called something like “a wolf in wolf’s clothing”. They choose a really horrible person so we’re more likely to suspend their constitutional rights. Then precedent has been set for when they want to do the same to one of us. It’s what happened to Weinstein and Bill Cosby. Yeah, they are creeps but their trials were full of injustices. And that’s why they’re winning their freedom on appeal.
All depends on the threat and the threat maker, no? Dealing with people as unique individuals instead of "types" of people is essential to social order.
Unfortunately a whole bunch of people were talking about all of US who didn't mask being dangers to society. Or parents who don't want their kids learning sexual perversions in school being a danger to their children's welfare. Or folks who didn't take the jab being a danger to the rest of society. THAT is the concern.
A serious concern. We’ll start turning that around when massive numbers of us get off our behinds, register to vote, study some issues, compare some candidates, and then go cast a full ballot. Life has been so good for so many of us for so long we forgot that freedom is not free.
And the asylums should treat them with kindness & love. Feed them organic whole foods. Find out what nutrient deficiencies they have and offer supplements. Give them spacious outdoors and real activities. Give them a purpose by having them participate in helping others or doing chores that they can handle. Teach them skills in taking care of themselves when they go to live on their own like cooking recipes. Teach them job skills also.
Today’s behavioral health units are complete opposite of this. So sad to see a loved one in these facilities and know that their treatment is completely wrong.
And if someone doesn’t know, they will force inject people by strapping them down or holding them down with meds if they are out of control or put them in isolation in a padded room. Then they will coerce people to take the meds, holding it over their heads as a way to be discharged.
Being trapped in a sterile hospital small building with no outdoor space or very tiny outdoor space with only elementary school activities and fed garbage for days or weeks is enough to make anyone go insane.
And how about truly meaningful therapy for their trauma. Most have childhood developmental traumas. Body-based work like EMDR, chiropractic, biofeedback, and more.
As a former mental health case manager, I agree with you. In Pennsylvania, and probably all other states as well, it is illegal to force medication on any person unless they are assessed through a formal process to be a danger to themselves or others. I had many ill people on my caseload who probably could have been better able to function if they had been willing to take prescribed medications, but they chose not to, so that was that. The shortage of mental health facilities, especially hospitals, is tragic. The state of Pennsylvania closed many state-funded hospitals because they were so expensive to run. I felt, and still do, that mental illness is not commonly viewed with much concern or compassion. If taxpayers are reluctant to help fund mental health programs and facilities for the mentally ill, they may end up with these said people sleeping on their front porches. People with mental illness are still very stigmatized and feared. All the best to you!
As you know of course, medication is by far and away a perhaps necessary immediate intervention. However, there are numerous alternative therapies that are much less harmful yet still effective.
One functional psychiatrist whose book I have upstairs said that many schizophrenic folks improve significantly with a gluten free diet. Many need elimination of chocolate (which a friend recently told me shares antigenic similarity with gluten).
Solid treatment of developmental trauma via body-based therapies like EMDR, somatic awareness therapy, and others; in conjunction with perhaps body work like chiropractic, acupuncture, craniosacral.
And of course supporting the body hormone systems with the right kinds and sources of herbs, vitamins, minerals can help calm the nervous system so that folks can exercise self-control more readily.
Granted, this is more time and person intensive than injecting meds or giving pills. However, none of those meds are actually curative. They only suppress symptoms. Which, while absolutely acutely necessary in a crisis, is not a helpful long term solution for patients or families.
I used to know a man who was chemically castrated monthly by the court in New York. He was my neighbor, I was glad, honestly, that he was complying with it.
Yes, they involuntarily become organ donors. Enough soft stuff for them and their ilk. Be done with it and use the defense funds to help the child recover and try to lead a normal life. That sounds like justice to me, but that's me....
Trouble is, these days, the wicked people who have hijacked power would love to be locking all of us up for dissent...Tyrants love to label dissidents as mentally ill.
"We should reopen asylums though, and remove people from society those who endanger others lives."
There you go 'picking' on Congress and the Senate again.........and for that matter (regarding the criminally insane) the White House.
On a more serious note:
Aren't they actually the one's most likely to decide who is mentally ill?
"Dr. I refuse the latest 'mandated' jab"
Doc's response: "OK, then according to Congress, I'll have you diagnosed as mentally ill, and have you institutionalized until you take the mandated jab. On top of that, Congress has ordered that insurance companies are forbidden from reimbursing medical expenses of anyone who doesn't adhere to the 'mandates'."
Yup. Many of the homeless people are mentally ill, some of them a result of drug use. We cannot force them to get treatment or take medication. Nor should we be able to.
That being said, the only class not protected are children. They do this all the time with children. If you are a parent who disagrees with a treatment but the treatment is what is accepted (and what the doctor ordered) and you refuse to let them use it on your child, the state will take your child away. This has been going on for decades. It’s medical kidnapping, and it’s wrong. Most people prior to the pandemic would’ve disagreed with me, but I think that tide is changing as well.
Allowing them to medicate him against his will in order to put him on trial will open up a whole can of worms.
Well, in San Francisco they just encourage people’s alcohol addiction. It’s like giving candy to a diabetic, or worse. It’s not forced, but it’s just as bad. 🤡 world.
NAB - This brings to mind the cases where chemo is forced upon children over the objection of their parents. Children are taken away from parents and forcibly administered chemo.
A sticky issue for sure. Some look rightly so that it is forced medication. Others see it as a tranquilizing dart. Even if violent types were put in asylums w/o meds like some suggested, they would be a danger to everyone there. What is the solution? It’s not all black and white as a right to refuse. It’s much different for a person of sound mind to make the decision to reject a shot as opposed to an insane violent criminal with deadly “off his meds” consequences. I don’t know the answers. The courts will have to sort this one out.
who are the judges who rule for forcible medication of the insane? Are THEY doctors? what medical professional is testifying to the safety and efficacy of the mental mood mind sanity-restorative drug being touted? is this a Pfryzer product? These Leftist Judges WANT to set precedent AND sanctify abortion facilities and the personnel who work there, AND punch Pro-Lifers in the face. The only way to do this with a clinically deranged killer who lone-wolfed an attack and survived for a trial is to subvert his madness defense (a Leftist ploy since the 1960s) and Force-medicate him (is the State not his Guardian at this point in a manner of speaking too?). The courts will get all the benefits they can out of this...perhaps they can wring some sort of causal connection confession from this madman so they can further erode Pro-Life Speech and 2nd Amendment Rights as well.
"who are the judges who rule for forcible medication of the insane?"
Like all Judges, they learned 'law', not medicine.
They relay on experts (like Fauci) to determine what should be mandated.
Yes, there are cases where truly mentally ill (one day we'll have to discuss how they ended up being/becoming mentally ill) without infrastructure/family/etc. are relying on the State to make that decision.
Dangerous though, as. commenter stated, when it involves parenting choice and affected children.
Judge 'Judy' ain't going to be able truly help much.
Yeah - back in 2019, I'd have sided with the "yes" votes. Criminal? Check. Insane? Check. Danger to society? Check. Go for it. But these days? That's a no. Still checks all the boxes, but not the "forced medication with potentially bad side effects" one.
That _does_ open the way for all sorts of "well, he's really a danger to himself because he won't take his 45th mRNA booster + shingles + flu + hand-foot-mouth disease shot" levels of craziness. We don't need to open that door any wider than the courts left it open back in MA.
The global villains have gone from saying dissidents are wrong to saying we’re extremists to saying we’re criminals, terrorists & then a health threat to others.
Let’s not allow them to try « they’re a danger to themselves - medicate them for their own good »....
Yep, people who spread "disinformation" (inconvenient facts) will soon be terrorists who need to be forcibly medicated for their own and society's safety.
Lock him up in a mental hospital for the rest of his life. That’s what justice looks like in this case.
If they can force medicate the vulnerable, they’ll find a way to force medicate the rest of us. It’s likely they already are with our food and water supply.
I’m tired of the government’s heavy hand. I spent over half my life being in awe at the thought that I was born into the freest country on earth. When did I exchange freedom for shackles? I can’t pinpoint the exact date, but the awakening has been horrific.
Sadly, there will always be mistakes made but there must be an effort for justice and punishment for liars, withholding of truth, bribery, tampering with witnesses, and Judges who do. Money buys morals. Now who makes the foundations of all law, men or God?
I’m in agreement with you - used to be “institutions for the criminally insane” (that’s where he belongs). Of course now, that’s just Times Square NYC!
Regarding the mentally-mangled murderer who the System wants to medicate, I'll side with no.
Otherwise forced jabs will be the future for anyone in government possession.
I mean, isn't this issue debated on a daily basis in homeless enclaves like San Francisco? Despite the obvious mental illness of some homeless people, you cannot find anyone who advocates for forcibly medicating people. Also, we used to allow people to reject medical treatment all the time. Can you imagine saying to a JW, "sorry, you have to take the blood transfusion"? Or a person, like my mom who refused further chemo, "Sorry - it's for your own good." I think enough Pandora boxes have been opened in the last four years.
We shouldn’t force medicate. We should reopen asylums though, and remove people from society those who endanger others lives.
Is that where we put all the morons still wearing masks?!
Mental illness is real...
It is. But the question is, how do the maskers threaten your physical well-being? They don’t. And they don’t have any power without the force of government.
Let’s examine that
From what I’ve read, most people don’t replace their masks anywhere near often enough. And they become covered with bacteria and fungi. Personally for this reason, I try to stay away from people wearing masks.
On a deeper level, a mask wearer, I know, cannot be counted on to help the rest of us fight the descending darkness of tyranny we’re seeing.
So, I’m not so sure that mask wearers aren’t a threat to the rest of us.
Plus they think WE ARE THE VIRUS.
That's a threat if I've ever seen one.
Agree. Those things are so disgusting. I started throwing a fit once I saw how gross those things were coming home on my kids faces. I still worry about permanent damage they might've done. At least we were successful at getting them off them sooner - we were able to get exemption forms, so many of our kids were barefaced relatively quickly. At first we were treated like pariahs, but eventually we kept pushing and the rest joined us.
Mask wearers are a threat...they are ones who screamed at us for not wearing one and said we would kill grandma.
the maskers ARE a hrat to us but in a non-direct way. WHen I come across a goon in a mug nappie he does not directly threaten ME or my health/safety. I am immune to his mental instability, which I deem NOT contagious. I will not let one of them get close enough to me to actually transmit any of his pathogens physically to me.
So no, they should NOT be forced to doff their face nappies. Let them stew in their own filth. Not MY problem until they attempt to force ME to put one on.
Of course they're a threat. They hate us, want us destroyed, and push for that any way they can.
Yes, they’re dangerous - they buy into the idiotic mask narrative! That supports the government effort to force plandemic measures on us.
The mask is the outward sign of the inward acquiescence to embrace the needle intervention. If more humans would not have complied with masks, I do believe the bio-jabs would not have been given the traction necessary and might have forced a re-evaluation. By who? By those with less than stellar critical thinking skills, which has turned out to be a good number of the global population, especially in the west.
I agree with you. I'll go farther and declare that Maskers are the enemy. They need to be defeated, not tolerated.
I know. I'm just being silly. I agree with you
true, but then they go around voting in people like Hochul who will throw us in camps for not vaccinating, and that is a direct threat to our well being.
I know you were, but thinking about it logically, you could say that the anti-vaxxers were considered a threat during Covid. So I felt I had to respond seriously.
They can vote so that may threaten my physical well-being. They are brainwashed so they already think we are a threat. They are the scary unknown if things go south eg. Nazi brownshirts. they will turn you in to the government.
Good point!
Especially the ones wearing a mask outside.
In the RURAL AREAS!! IN STATE PARKS. THEY SEALED OFF THE BATHROOMS!! PPL BReakING INTO THEM. 😁 BROUGHT THEIR OWN TP. YES I'M STILL SCREAMING!!!
It was all just so unbelievably STUPID!!! 🤦♀️😡
or in the car alone. OR ON A MOTORCYCLE!
Bahahah..reminds me of 4 years ago with people wearing buckets on their head and stuff
Now, Now Ryan be kind. Perhaps on trash pick up after their rallies or demonstrations would be more profitable for all.
That’s a slippery slope too as the question of what qualifies one to be mandated to asylum remains. (And who gets to decide?)
Reasonably, if someone is a threat to others, they can’t be allowed in society. We used to understand this but we’ve become so irrational and illogical (not to mention how some abused their power) that we’ve totally abandoned any action that would protect us.
I think the struggle is, who gets to decide if someone is a danger to others? During COVID, we were all assured that if we questioned the narrative or refused to be jabbed, *we* were a clear and present danger to the safety of others. For some cases, like the one in this Stack, it’s obvious. This guy is clinically insane and needs to be kept away from society. But then things can get fuzzy/gray. Who gets to decide if your actions (or inactions) are a danger to others? You’re right - we *used* to be able to make those determinations. But now everyone is convinced that even differing opinions are dangerous. I don’t know how we climb back up this slippery slope…
I think a large part of it (probably the whole of it) is returning to God. By abandoning Him, we’ve abandoned our reason.
As a traditional Roman Catholic I am now considered a threat by the US government. I go to church daily, pray the rosary and cut my grass and post snark on this website and not much else. But I’m a threat to democracy. If Trump doesn’t win this will get ugly(er) fast. Look at what Biden has managed to do in 3 1/2 years. It’s mind boggling and almost impressive.
Agreed, what the left thinks is a threat is scary to me. They want to lock up everyone who doesn't agree with them.
Leftist Courts/Judges are USING this madman for political/social means, NOT to administer "justice". Their means are masquerading for the ends they want primarily and they enjoy their own delusion of Law. We're to accept this all as honest and forthright process of persons of station and respectability rather than the greater Cultural Mental erosion that these "justices" are themselves afflicted with.
When proper consequences are again imposed for actual harm, we can slow down imagining and harassing people for potential harm. I don’t know if “the Supreme Court roundly rejected prior constraint,” but the Dude’s buddy Walter testified so.
Just sitting here calmly drinking my coffee.
exactly, the fear is that those lunatics on the left would want to start throwing people in asylums for using the wrong pronouns.
I don’t mind if some random person thinks by cutting his penis off, he can be a woman. What I do mind is the teachers that teach it, the media that reinforces it, the doctors that practice it, and the government mandating we all believe it. The only way we get back to sanity is by embracing the One who created our rational minds. I do worry that He has given us over to our reprobate minds…
YES! You got it in one.. and not just pronouns ... anything 'not approved' right think....
Now there are SO MANY! 😩
Given that he shot people, that's grounds for doing more than medicating.
Right? If an animal went on a rampage that killed three and wounded others, the penalty would be death. I’m not convinced that shouldn’t be the penalty for this man as well. However, he’s not just an animal; he’s a man, created in the image of God. Part of me thinks this affords him some consideration I wouldn’t grant to an animal. The other part of me believes that by his actions, he has abandoned the distinction.
He’s obviously mentally ill. He doesn’t have the capacity to understand the situation. We are a civilized nation. We don’t kill people who have diminished capacity.
Agreed. My point is that forced medication is preferable to treating him to the punishment he would deserve if sane.
I imagine many people were put in asylums, held as hostages, and medicated when it suited a powerful person's interests. Then, they experimented on them without any oversight or protection.
Now jail serves as these places to put people who are unable to function appropriately in society and they are privately owned raking in big bucks from the taxpayers. Most deserve it but so many do not. A relative of mine served 9 years for theft and the treatment was pretty bad in there. Meanwhile, people commit murder and spend less time?
When there is room for people in jail, they make sure the spaces are filled. THAT is truth...
That is truth. Prisons are run by corporations for profit.
yup and our elites love to glorify the lowest rung of the welfare ladder:
PRISON
For profit prisons with guaranteed occupancy
The former Soviet Union was known for putting some Christians in hospitals as insane. And forcibly medicating them, no doubt.
They did some evil that we don't even know.
The bolsheviks did? It was the soviet union but were they russian?
The people who made the man-made famine in Soviet that killed like 60 million?
Nobody talks about that holocaust.
How about an ice pick to scramble your brains for sadness?
Good point, but if you think about it, this forced institutionalization is already done against elderly people. I know because it happened to one of my parents -- forced guardianship by the county that my parent lived in.
Nanny state to the "rescue."
oh let's let Hochul decide, she seems like a common sense kind of lady
I look forward to her demise
She’s evil
😜😜
With the enormity of evidence out there about the problems starting to pop up I don’t think that’s going to happen.
Theoretically yes on reopening the asylums. Currently the mentally ill are put in jail and because they cannot be medicated forcefully, they are a danger to themselves and the people who incarcerate them. My husband just retired from law enforcement after 20years and the stories around dealing with the severely mentally ill, would curl your hair. There is a legal threshold in some states for the forced medication of the severely mentally ill and in our state, in his 20 years, my husband never saw it court ordered (we live in a very blue state). I agree on principle that legislating the forced medication of anyone is the beginning of the slippery slope. However the default people in society who are forced to deal with these people, our LEO’s need tools. When an insane person smears feces all over their cell wall, eats it and won’t come out or eat the food provided by the facility, they are forced to extract that person ( for the perpetrators saftey of course). Being able to tranq dart someone like that would be invaluable. So where is the line and how do we deal with the truly insane who are a danger to themselves and others? Is it love or kindness to allow a person to die from infection because they smeared their own fecal matter into self inflicted wounds? Once again I agree that the forced medication of anyone isn’t going to end well, but what do we do with the insane if we aren’t going to use meds?
Some neighbors have a mentally ill (bi-polar) son living with them. He’s almost 40. Can’t hold a job, drinks and goes off his meds. He has become increasingly violent. He says he hears voices, sometimes he wanders the streets at night yelling at mailboxes. The cops have come and arrested him but there is little they can do longer term. He needs an institution but there don’t seem to be any. It’s an impossible situation. They should be enjoying their retirement but are prisoners in their own home dealing with this.
I commented elsewhere about my experience with patients improving on a locked psych ward, given (sometimes forced) medications, but left out the part about how many stop taking their meds after discharge. A lot. Rinse and repeat. It's very sad for the families.
As you know I am sure, medication is by far and away a perhaps necessary immediate intervention. However, there are numerous alternative therapies that are much less harmful yet still effective.
One functional psychiatrist whose book I have upstairs said that many schizophrenic folks improve significantly with a gluten free diet. Many need elimination of chocolate (which a friend recently told me share antigenic similarity with gluten).
Solid treatment of developmental trauma via body-based therapies like EMDR, somatic awareness therapy, and others; in conjunction with perhaps body work like chiropractic, acupuncture, craniosacral.
And of course supporting the body hormone systems with the right kinds and sources of herbs, vitamins, minerals can help calm the nervous system so that folks can exercise self-control more readily.
Granted, this is more time and person intensive than injecting meds or giving pills. However, none of those are actually curative. They only suppress symptoms. Which, while absolutely acutely necessary in a crisis, is not a helpful long term solution for patients or families.
I hope he doesn’t end up murdering them. They need to move and not let him know where they’re going.
More than likely he will end up dead.....
It’s a concern for sure!! What do they do? They’ve gone to a support group but that does not address their living situation.
My RN wife has picked up a few temp fill-in jobs at mental health facilities where people having psychological break-downs are taken. Believe it not, many people are simply too insane to be allowed to go to jail.
So these temporary half-way houses are established, and the ones who exhibit serious violent or self-harm behavior are taken there instead of jail. After a few days, they let them back out. Wash, rinse, repeat.
Mental illness / addiction is actually far worse a problem than most understand.
Medication is by far and away a perhaps necessary immediate intervention. However, there are numerous alternative therapies that are much less harmful yet still effective.
One functional psychiatrist whose book I have upstairs said that many schizophrenic folks improve significantly with a gluten free diet. Many need elimination of chocolate (which a friend recently told me share antigenic similarity with gluten).
Solid treatment of developmental trauma via body-based therapies like EMDR, somatic awareness therapy, and others; in conjunction with perhaps body work like chiropractic, acupuncture, craniosacral.
And of course supporting the body hormone systems with the right kinds and sources of herbs, vitamins, minerals can help calm the nervous system so that folks can exercise self-control more readily.
Granted, this is more time and person intensive than injecting meds or giving pills. However, none of those are actually curative. They only suppress symptoms. Which, while absolutely acutely necessary in a crisis, is not a helpful long term solution for patients or families.
Excellent points! I’m sure many have not thought about it from the law enforcement perspective. They should be able to tranquillize someone like that. There would need to be safeguards in place so forced medication is not abused.
Unfortunately, those mental institutions are hellholes of patient abuse - One Flew over the Cuckoo’s Nest is not an exaggeration. The patients there are forced to take drugs, we just don’t have to see them.
So we don’t lock up the few to protect the many because the few were grievously abused?
I am not advocating for abuse. I’m just saying, we’re sacrificing society in total because the minority who were locked up were abused and that’s a complete abandonment of logic, reason, sanity, and compassion.
Sadly that’s where we’ve landed in this world of misplaced ideology.
President Bukele of El Salvador said on the Tucker show that when they when they were rounding up and imprisoning violent gang members, the human rights organizations came out of the woodwork to defend the killers.
We’re so concerned about proper treatment of felons, illegal invaders, drug addicts etc; what about the rights of law abiding citizens to live peacefully without all of their nonsense?
We used to do that until progressives started yelling about how the civil rights of the insane trump the needs of a secure society. Leftists see Dickensian urban hellholes every where the rights of the many are defended.
I don’t think it’s an accident that this is the case that will determine if someone can be force medicated. It’s called something like “a wolf in wolf’s clothing”. They choose a really horrible person so we’re more likely to suspend their constitutional rights. Then precedent has been set for when they want to do the same to one of us. It’s what happened to Weinstein and Bill Cosby. Yeah, they are creeps but their trials were full of injustices. And that’s why they’re winning their freedom on appeal.
That’s how they operate so I’m a definite no.
Would this be the ‘re-education camps’ Hilarious Clinton spoke of?
No. If someone is a threat to other’s physical wellbeing, they have given up their right to freedom.
I know we’re in a time now where not towing the ruling party line brings calls for removal from society. That’s not what I’m talking about at all.
You mean an action of actual physical harm?
A threat does not mean you have given up your right to freedom.
All depends on the threat and the threat maker, no? Dealing with people as unique individuals instead of "types" of people is essential to social order.
We know YOU are not talking about that.
Unfortunately a whole bunch of people were talking about all of US who didn't mask being dangers to society. Or parents who don't want their kids learning sexual perversions in school being a danger to their children's welfare. Or folks who didn't take the jab being a danger to the rest of society. THAT is the concern.
A serious concern. We’ll start turning that around when massive numbers of us get off our behinds, register to vote, study some issues, compare some candidates, and then go cast a full ballot. Life has been so good for so many of us for so long we forgot that freedom is not free.
And the asylums should treat them with kindness & love. Feed them organic whole foods. Find out what nutrient deficiencies they have and offer supplements. Give them spacious outdoors and real activities. Give them a purpose by having them participate in helping others or doing chores that they can handle. Teach them skills in taking care of themselves when they go to live on their own like cooking recipes. Teach them job skills also.
Today’s behavioral health units are complete opposite of this. So sad to see a loved one in these facilities and know that their treatment is completely wrong.
And if someone doesn’t know, they will force inject people by strapping them down or holding them down with meds if they are out of control or put them in isolation in a padded room. Then they will coerce people to take the meds, holding it over their heads as a way to be discharged.
Being trapped in a sterile hospital small building with no outdoor space or very tiny outdoor space with only elementary school activities and fed garbage for days or weeks is enough to make anyone go insane.
You are spot on.
And how about truly meaningful therapy for their trauma. Most have childhood developmental traumas. Body-based work like EMDR, chiropractic, biofeedback, and more.
Yes, these are great additions.
Agree. And we need to help people with mental health issues in this country. The current system is deplorable.
As a former mental health case manager, I agree with you. In Pennsylvania, and probably all other states as well, it is illegal to force medication on any person unless they are assessed through a formal process to be a danger to themselves or others. I had many ill people on my caseload who probably could have been better able to function if they had been willing to take prescribed medications, but they chose not to, so that was that. The shortage of mental health facilities, especially hospitals, is tragic. The state of Pennsylvania closed many state-funded hospitals because they were so expensive to run. I felt, and still do, that mental illness is not commonly viewed with much concern or compassion. If taxpayers are reluctant to help fund mental health programs and facilities for the mentally ill, they may end up with these said people sleeping on their front porches. People with mental illness are still very stigmatized and feared. All the best to you!
Illinois closed a big one too (in Elgin). Now there is nowhere for these people to go.
As you know of course, medication is by far and away a perhaps necessary immediate intervention. However, there are numerous alternative therapies that are much less harmful yet still effective.
One functional psychiatrist whose book I have upstairs said that many schizophrenic folks improve significantly with a gluten free diet. Many need elimination of chocolate (which a friend recently told me shares antigenic similarity with gluten).
Solid treatment of developmental trauma via body-based therapies like EMDR, somatic awareness therapy, and others; in conjunction with perhaps body work like chiropractic, acupuncture, craniosacral.
And of course supporting the body hormone systems with the right kinds and sources of herbs, vitamins, minerals can help calm the nervous system so that folks can exercise self-control more readily.
Granted, this is more time and person intensive than injecting meds or giving pills. However, none of those meds are actually curative. They only suppress symptoms. Which, while absolutely acutely necessary in a crisis, is not a helpful long term solution for patients or families.
I used to know a man who was chemically castrated monthly by the court in New York. He was my neighbor, I was glad, honestly, that he was complying with it.
Wouldn’t it have been better, and safer for your community as a whole, if he had been locked out of society?
If his father had been, he wouldn’t have had the issue s he struggled with. I don’t know. Yet to meet a “ reformed” child predator.
Yes, they involuntarily become organ donors. Enough soft stuff for them and their ilk. Be done with it and use the defense funds to help the child recover and try to lead a normal life. That sounds like justice to me, but that's me....
Later Jay
There are none. There is no rehab for pedophiles! No one. Not one ever stops their aberrant behavior.
Trouble is, these days, the wicked people who have hijacked power would love to be locking all of us up for dissent...Tyrants love to label dissidents as mentally ill.
"We should reopen asylums though, and remove people from society those who endanger others lives."
There you go 'picking' on Congress and the Senate again.........and for that matter (regarding the criminally insane) the White House.
On a more serious note:
Aren't they actually the one's most likely to decide who is mentally ill?
"Dr. I refuse the latest 'mandated' jab"
Doc's response: "OK, then according to Congress, I'll have you diagnosed as mentally ill, and have you institutionalized until you take the mandated jab. On top of that, Congress has ordered that insurance companies are forbidden from reimbursing medical expenses of anyone who doesn't adhere to the 'mandates'."
100%. Thanks GG for saying it out loud.
Later Jay
Absolutely!!
Yup. Many of the homeless people are mentally ill, some of them a result of drug use. We cannot force them to get treatment or take medication. Nor should we be able to.
That being said, the only class not protected are children. They do this all the time with children. If you are a parent who disagrees with a treatment but the treatment is what is accepted (and what the doctor ordered) and you refuse to let them use it on your child, the state will take your child away. This has been going on for decades. It’s medical kidnapping, and it’s wrong. Most people prior to the pandemic would’ve disagreed with me, but I think that tide is changing as well.
Allowing them to medicate him against his will in order to put him on trial will open up a whole can of worms.
Well, in San Francisco they just encourage people’s alcohol addiction. It’s like giving candy to a diabetic, or worse. It’s not forced, but it’s just as bad. 🤡 world.
Yes exactly.
NAB - This brings to mind the cases where chemo is forced upon children over the objection of their parents. Children are taken away from parents and forcibly administered chemo.
A sticky issue for sure. Some look rightly so that it is forced medication. Others see it as a tranquilizing dart. Even if violent types were put in asylums w/o meds like some suggested, they would be a danger to everyone there. What is the solution? It’s not all black and white as a right to refuse. It’s much different for a person of sound mind to make the decision to reject a shot as opposed to an insane violent criminal with deadly “off his meds” consequences. I don’t know the answers. The courts will have to sort this one out.
Too many! Far too many ...
who are the judges who rule for forcible medication of the insane? Are THEY doctors? what medical professional is testifying to the safety and efficacy of the mental mood mind sanity-restorative drug being touted? is this a Pfryzer product? These Leftist Judges WANT to set precedent AND sanctify abortion facilities and the personnel who work there, AND punch Pro-Lifers in the face. The only way to do this with a clinically deranged killer who lone-wolfed an attack and survived for a trial is to subvert his madness defense (a Leftist ploy since the 1960s) and Force-medicate him (is the State not his Guardian at this point in a manner of speaking too?). The courts will get all the benefits they can out of this...perhaps they can wring some sort of causal connection confession from this madman so they can further erode Pro-Life Speech and 2nd Amendment Rights as well.
"who are the judges who rule for forcible medication of the insane?"
Like all Judges, they learned 'law', not medicine.
They relay on experts (like Fauci) to determine what should be mandated.
Yes, there are cases where truly mentally ill (one day we'll have to discuss how they ended up being/becoming mentally ill) without infrastructure/family/etc. are relying on the State to make that decision.
Dangerous though, as. commenter stated, when it involves parenting choice and affected children.
Judge 'Judy' ain't going to be able truly help much.
They’re already doing it in blue states- to minors. This was a horrific story in bleed blue CT.
She had no choice. They forced her to do chemo.
https://www.nbcconnecticut.com/news/local/cassandra-callender-forced-to-undergo-chemo-dies-at-22/2271246/?amp=1
JW?
I'm assuming Jehovah's Witness.
Correct.
Yeah - back in 2019, I'd have sided with the "yes" votes. Criminal? Check. Insane? Check. Danger to society? Check. Go for it. But these days? That's a no. Still checks all the boxes, but not the "forced medication with potentially bad side effects" one.
That _does_ open the way for all sorts of "well, he's really a danger to himself because he won't take his 45th mRNA booster + shingles + flu + hand-foot-mouth disease shot" levels of craziness. We don't need to open that door any wider than the courts left it open back in MA.
🎯
Well said, Peter.
The global villains have gone from saying dissidents are wrong to saying we’re extremists to saying we’re criminals, terrorists & then a health threat to others.
Let’s not allow them to try « they’re a danger to themselves - medicate them for their own good »....
Yep, people who spread "disinformation" (inconvenient facts) will soon be terrorists who need to be forcibly medicated for their own and society's safety.
Yes, "society's safety" is the camel's nose entering the tent. We lived through that, and it's not over yet.
Jabs please. So you will be safe and effective as a killer
Let them come ahead.
Lock him up in a mental hospital for the rest of his life. That’s what justice looks like in this case.
If they can force medicate the vulnerable, they’ll find a way to force medicate the rest of us. It’s likely they already are with our food and water supply.
I’m tired of the government’s heavy hand. I spent over half my life being in awe at the thought that I was born into the freest country on earth. When did I exchange freedom for shackles? I can’t pinpoint the exact date, but the awakening has been horrific.
They problem with asylums is they can be used to lock us up too depending on who makes the determination.
Sadly, there will always be mistakes made but there must be an effort for justice and punishment for liars, withholding of truth, bribery, tampering with witnesses, and Judges who do. Money buys morals. Now who makes the foundations of all law, men or God?
Yep.
We are ruled by a global ORGANIZED CRIME SYNDICATE.
They’re as trustworthy as Hitler & Stalin.
No way to talk about public education and TV watchers.
There's "vulnerable", and then there's "convicted murderer". Those are miles apart.
I’m in agreement with you - used to be “institutions for the criminally insane” (that’s where he belongs). Of course now, that’s just Times Square NYC!