Today could be a revolutionary Supreme Court day; Putin putting the band back together; NYT pushes sexual propaganda; Ten Commandments story blows up; weird hope for broken hearts; and more.
Regarding the Louisiana law, Jeff makes the clear argument about it. Louisiana has that right. If there is a question of "federalness", then remove all Louisiana public schools from the Federal system.
When I was in high school, I took an advanced literature class, and one of the books on our reading list was the Bible. We discussed it as literature, with all its deep qualities. No one objected.
I am in favor of Trump abolishing the Dept. of Education. Get the damn feds out of our schools.
Another point to this is that morality will be imposed by someone. I would much rather have God’s law be made known as the basis of that morality than the disgusting perversion of sexuality, law, human relationships, and almost every other aspect of life that we see today. Christians cannot cower before the loudest clowns in society any longer. Make decency great again!
they can't stand being exposed to the light....that is part of the purpose of the 10 commandments? right? to get thru the thick headed stubborn narcissists just how ignroant they/we've been. Recently had small epiphany that living boundary-less, we, just like kids self destruct...before we come to know God individually we need boundaries to reign us in and provide structure so we can hear Him. Like obedience school for dogs....they start out as running around screwing every other dog, biting and fighting and distracted by every 'squirrel' that runs by nipping and barking incessantly...they need the Dog Whisperer to calm them down and teach them boundaries(the 10 commandments) so they learn to sit and listen and PAY ATTENTION (obedience). Once you get to your prefrontal cortex (your right mind) where God is you learn to prefer that place instead of the HELLSCAPE of the amygdala where old traumas and wounds and offenses and unforgiveness and imaginations rule and satan taunts.
Yes, the New Testament confirms that the 'law' is a 'tutor' to show we need the 'Spirit' of the Living God, and that shows us that we can never be good enough to save ourselves. We needed and need Jesus to save us, and for His Spirit to indwell us in order to do what is right. We will still have our fallen nature but we can be tutored by His Holy Spirit to overcome it with practice, patience and persistence. We will fall short in the process, but we can always return to Him as often as we need to, for forgiveness, cleansing, acceptance and His sacrificial love, and His wisdom and guidance.
I choose BOTH MOTHER EARTH and FATHER SKY. one is not higher than the other. this is the problem with patriarchal religion and why its' not good for women or children, nor for healthy relationships between men and women.
also why pedophilia, domestic violence and rape are still a part of our atmosphere.
The enemy has spoken, and in speaking exposed her delusion. You obviously are clueless about the requirements of the Patriarchy, perhaps because you like to gaslight instead of speak truth.
I'm going to guess you are a divorced, troubled, angry woman. Perhaps a man failed you by not behaving according to his Patriarchal requirements, perhaps you failed him with an affair or immorality of your own, or perhaps you were just gaslighted, lied to, cajoled in to believing women and children don't need men in their lives, they just need government to provide handouts - redistributed from men. Whatever the reason for your delusion, I feel sorry for you. Perhaps someday you can come back from Uranus (yes, plop your head out) and re-establish a healthy connection.
My issues? You mean being an honest, loving, supportive man who understands the critical role a man has in the most important relationship in life? I will stand on "my issues" vs your issues anytime. Many excellent male friendships? Ha... Beta males, maybe.
My normal reaction to harsh language and name-calling. Trying to delete the comment, and I’ll keep trying to stick to my principles. “A gentle answer turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger” (Proverbs 15:1). Peace and love, bro.
Yeah sure peace and love...except when you are arguing a point with lunatics who have decided it is their calling to blow up a societal imperative because they got it wrong. Are you denying that Patriarchy, in its biblical form is wrong?
No sir. I just never won an argument with a woman who made me angry. Actually, I'm not sure men ever really win arguments with women. I believe Ephesians 5:21-33 is the blueprint, and Proverbs 14:1 is the flip side of a man who will or won’t follow the plan: “The wise woman builds her house, but with her own hands the foolish one tears hers down.”
sadly, it is YOUR problem and it is what separates you from the female Divinity in your life, and contributes to the Divide and Conquer you are so busy perpetuating.
I cherish women, at least those who understand the critical roles of men and women and seek to build upon them a loving, happy, forever relationship.
You, being indoctrinated to destroy this beautiful relationship, can't possibly understand it. A good book for you to try and turn it all around, "The Five Love Languages" by Gary Chapman.
Isn't it interesting how humanity affixes "parental designations" on "the earth" and "time" (as in MOTHER earth and FATHER time). "I know Whom I have believed and am persuaded that he is able...to keep that which I've committed...unto Him against that day"...so says the tried and true 'old hymn of the faith'!
I don’t blame the earth for anything. She’s an innocent victim! Humans who have turned away from their creator are the problem. I don’t like to hear the Earth linked with them!
That foolish man Richard Dawkins claimed that God was unnecessary because we already have morality. Too stupid to realize where that sense of morality comes from. The ignorance of the "intellectual"!
But if I happen to lack morals, and that happens to benefit my survival at the expense of those who have scruples, then THAT is an evolutionary trait that helped ensure survival.
An evolutionary origin without a deity gives no grounding for WHY one set of morals is better than another, other than "it probably helped us survive in the past so maybe if we stick to it, we'll continue to survive better, assuming the environment hasn't changed much".
There is enough love in heaven for those like yourself that to allow you to continue in your ways, giving you every opportunity to turn.
I was very much like you up to my late thirties. Mocking the Bible and those foolish Christians that believed it. Praise to God in heaven for his mercy on me and his grace! The best thing I could possibly hope for you and those like you is that you would see the same light at some point in your life.
It takes a "Holy Spirit"' intervention in our lives to acknowledge our sinful nature and turn AWAY from the "old life" and turn TOWARD eternal life through faith in the finished work and resurrection from the tomb of Jesus Christ the Lord and Creator of heavenly and earthly realms. GLORY AND OUR DEVOTION GOES ONLY TO YESHUA, JEHOVAH JIREH'S ONLY BEGOTTEN SON.
Now you're a mocker. An older, wiser Bob Dylan says, “you're gonna have to serve somebody.” Joshua says in 24:15, “if serving the Lord seems undesirable to you, then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve.” Who does your ISP tell you to serve, Vonu?
I agree. The counter revolution which Jeff likes to speak about, and which I agree with him, REQUIRES Americans to reassert our roots to our Judeo-Christian principles which enabled us to be a great country, always able to stand on the moral high ground, even when we were gaslighted into believing we weren't. As we can see, the removal of the 10 Commandments is a hill the unhinged, un-boundaried, inhumane, immoral liberals (and their cohort of rinos) are more than willing to fight and die for. They have spent decades destroying what made this country great because their goal has ALWAYS been to destroy the USA and rebuild another marxist failed state with their boots on our necks. Now that we've decided to fight a counter-revolution - so far without kinetic means - we need to stick to our guns (so to speak) and not shy from the fight. It truly is a battle of good vs evil and there is absolutely nothing evil in the 10 C - unless you are evil. Steady yourselves and don't give ground - to the individuals who say this is not the fight we should, they are wrong - it is precisely the fight. Its taken the evil ones decades to get us to the situation where we are, it is not going to get restored over night.
“For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them,”
Romans 2:14-15 NASB1995
God writes the law on every person’s heart. The power to obey it can only come from God through faith in His Son, Jesus the Christ. By bringing God’s law and the Gospel to society we help people become aware of how they should live according to their Maker’s design.
Most people are uncomfortable with arbitrary morality. If morals are arbitrary, who decides which ones apply - just whoever has the power to impose them?
(Deuteronomy 30: 6, RSV) "And the Lord your God will circumcise your heart, and the heart of your offspring, so that you will love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, so that you may live."
Vonu thinks he or she or it, or they or them whatever, is an educated twit ... and a real intellectual powerhouse. Such, of course, always think they are God's gift to human kind and exist solely to teach us a thing or two
People today are trapped in their dumbed down mis-educations. And most think they are smarter than they really are. Just look what comes out of the mouths of the European and North American 'leadership' class. The West, for example, is now on the fourteen round of sanctioning. They must now think that 'they' have reached the magic number. But if they fail, there's always round fifteen or sixteen ... or round infinity. They never seem to figure it out, at least a current crop. Vonu is no different. Invincible Ignorance knows no bounds.
vonu is likely a recent "graduate" of the public, liberal indoctrination system. In this system, they tell students to believe whatever they thinks is right, good, okay, not required to back it up with historical or provable facts. That they think it, is good enough. That vonu's "truth" trumps real, provable facts. That truth doesn't have to equal facts. It's really nefarious and destructive and has grown a generation of these fools.
Whatever is going on, it's pretty sloppy intellectually and not very sociable. In short, all the hallmarks of a truncated, short circuited rearing process.
The one thing the system does well is to produced dysfunctional barbarians. The do this in abundance. It is a wonder any of us have escaped out of the twisted cage they have most of us boxed up in, to some degree or another.
Unbeliever societies who live God's law are better than those who don't but they cannot hold to that society unless they will bow to the God who created it. As history has shown.
The Ten Commandments were written by God. A good question to ask is exactly which commandment do you not agree with? Murder? Stealing? Adultry? Honor parents? Love neighbor as yourself? Love God ?
Oxygenate before you type. God provided humanity with the ability to understand each other by first suffering the inability to understand each other (read the Tower of Babel). From that came the ability to translate and understand each other... see how that works... so yes, you could say God invented English.
Clearly you would prefer not to understand but simply make foolish comments to which other foolish people like @nancylee gravitate.
God doesn't impose His law. Free will is our God-given and inalienable right, and our choices reap the benefits and consequences. But eventually, “says the Lord, ‘every knee will bow before me; every tongue will acknowledge God’” (Romans 14:11). Even your knee and tongue, my friend.
This point can't be made often enough. We have a state-sanctioned religion already being taught in schools - DEI, Woke, Climate Cult, Rainbow Ideology - call it whatever you want, but it's present and destructive and shows no signs of abating without some kind of push back. We will all be made to care about something, so I suggest we choose wisely. The progressives NEVER stop. The conservatives never seem to want to start. They will not leave us alone to simply live our lives. That ship has sailed. Welcome to the fight, happy warriors; it's time to engage.
Who says morality will be imposed by someone. That’s a canard 🦆. The Commandments are common-sense rules to live by: don’t murder, don’t steal, etc. Avoid situations where the 7 deadly sins are on display. They are hurtful to the person affected by the sin and the person committing them. Without a firm foundation, people drift wherever and we are seeing wildly imaginative and debilitating choices and affirmations. All leading to anxiety, depression and sometimes suicide.
If you can remove “religion” and “Christian denomination” from the Commandments, then you have reasonable, common-sense rules to live by.
We all crave unconditional love. When we don’t get it from parents, teachers, friends, we wither. We fill the emptiness with things (other gods). When the things no longer satisfy that hunger, anxiety and depression can occur. Unconditional love is the River of life that waters the soul. People with hearts moved by God provide that River. And then people understand the First Commandment- to love God and not “things” that don’t satisfy.
No one is imposing anything. That might be your own interpretation.
Those in power are imposing a morality on us. No jab, no job, pride everywhere, ESG, DEI, open borders, gay mirage, transing kids, the list goes on. These are all morality issue that are imposed through a variety of means. There is no total escape from the consequences of these issues, hence they are imposed on everyone without a choice. Some form of morality will be forced on society. Should it be that of unhinged communists or based on Biblical tradition?
For the last few weeks, there has been disagreement among my county commissioners and the local school board over the amount to be budgeted for public schools. Rabid supporters of public education do not like charter schools or homeschools. A couple of people posted online, "public money should go to public schools." I responded that there is no "public money," it all comes from taxpayers. The same applies to federal money. I know it is a radical concept, but the government does not have money and the money we taxpayers "donate" should not be used as a bludgeon to force perverse ideologies on our children. Get rid of the Department of Education!
Since the Fed was created, there has been no limit to how much the government can borrow. The national debt has been increasing by a trillion dollars every 100 days or so since Biden was sworn in. The US will eventually go down like the USSR did, and the BRICS will have their revenge.
So, technically, there is money which did not come from taxpayers, but was printed with nothing to back it (as has been true for a long time). I think this country is going down, barring a miracle from God. I'll be glad when we are past November 5. I'm tired of feeling this weight of how much more horrible it can get.
It won't be better; it may be worse. It may be worse before then. I'm just tired of waiting for the black swan event, or martial law, or whatever is coming.
After reading all your indoctrinated comments on here, the US will not go down like the USSR, it will go down because people like you are foolish, indoctrinated, uneducated but still get to speak.
and you can add the other DOE - Dept. of Energy - the states will do a much better job - and come to think of it there are probably a lot of others that should be eliminated or dramatically scaled down - time to follow the constitution and get the feds out of what they have no right to be doing
“But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist.”
-- Lysander Spooner
"Unfit to exist" is maybe a little extra, but it ain't wrong otherwise.
Wrong. The deviation from the constitution as it was written is where the government has landed. We the people and our country are in the mess we are in because we have not followed God's rules. And have not repented and each of us changed our ways.
No, God gave troubled individuals like you the ability to make your choices, just because you have made the wrong ones and now regret it, only means you decided to make the wrong choices.
It *is* important to take a day off - every heard of "burnout"? The Sabbath was made for the benefit of mankind, as Jesus put it.
The "mixed cloth" is a bit more abstract that doesn't translate well in our culture, but it's to show the importance of being "pure" by visibly separating yourself from evil. It doesn't literally apply unless you're an ancient hebrew... in which case can I borrow your time machine?
The first organic document for the country was the Articles of Confederation, where it got its name. The Articles didn't let the oligarchs do what they wanted to, so they wrote a constitution so powerful that they couldn't control it and everyone else got thrown under the bus they are still luxuriating on.
How about we start with a number. Let’s say 100,000 federal employees. Then put which agencies get trimmed or shut down to a vote of the American people. It will be easy.
I so agree with your final sentence. In my first teaching job, high school English, fall of 1974, I had my students read passages from the Bible. At that time it was taken to be fully acceptable in the public school. Fast forward to the last ten years, when I was teaching Latin in middle school, had a poster of the Lord's Prayer in Latin, but did not dare to mount it on the wall.
Massachusetts is responsible for the education being public in America: the Old Deluder Act of 1647—says this native BayStater whose forebears profitted greatly from said law:
“It being one chief project of that old deluder, Satan, to keep men from the knowledge of the Scriptures, as in former times by keeping them in an unknown tongue, so in these latter times by persuading from the use of tongues, that so that at least the true sense and meaning of the original might be clouded and corrupted with false glosses of saint-seeming deceivers; and to the end that learning may not be buried in the grave of our forefathers, in church and commonwealth, the Lord assisting our endeavors.
It is therefore ordered that every township in this jurisdiction, after the Lord hath increased them to fifty households shall forthwith appoint one within their town to teach all such children as shall resort to him to write and read, whose wages shall be paid either by the parents or masters of such children, or by the inhabitants in general, by way of supply, as the major part of those that order the prudentials of the town shall appoint; provided those that send their children be not oppressed by paying much more than they can have them taught for in other towns.”
Children does not mean boys only. Hence the strong history of well-educated females in Massachusetts.
My students used to ask to do more conjugating—I thought that terrifically weird, as I had not enjoyed the practice—but they really enjoyed declining and conjugating. Individual marker boards were possibly in some wise responsible for this weirdness.
Yes! before gov regulations schools were local and not so bad at that but then kids used to have more home work experience and less culture. Poor things. Poor things. Gov can fix that!
And the number of rural ppl who still love their local public school rivalries and indoctrinations is... Is... So... So... Ignorant!
Important in Reagan's campaign promises was abolition of the Federal Department of Education. Once sworn in, he appointed a new Secretary of Education who promised the Senate he was not going to abolish the Department of Education. And things continued downhill from there.
How about, on 22 January 2025, we do away with all phone service in the DoE building. (DoD, CIA, NSA, FBI, and many others know how to do it.) We could hit the other DoE on the 23rd. Another useful innovation would be to abolish air conditioning in all US Federal Buildings everywhere.
absolutely. There is NO separation of Church and state. When the US was formed a few states had official state churches. THe US federal constitution was intended to prevent the fed gov from INTERFERING with already established state churches. If the State of NJ wanted to by voting it could establish an official state church and fed gov technically would be powerless to intervene. If a local school board voted to allow 10 commandments in the local school. THen its OK. Local control supercedes all else.
This gets to a discussion on sovereignty, usurpation of sovereignty, theft of government from the people ... and on and on. This is a discussion that needs to happen but won't because the political fronts ('elected' political class) won't do it because their Masters won't let them. Instead of honest discussion based upon historical truth, we ill be served up new Narrative Gravy. Even Narrative Replacement Theory in the reconstructing of the now broken system.
Seeing Im Christian, a Roman Catholic, I was taught the Ten Commandments so I see no problem with them being put in schools in Louisiana. We have a huge demon problem right now starting with the pope, we have to bring God back or we will lose our nations and our souls, thats all Im going to say on that. Have a blessed day C&C peeps.
The Ten Commandments are basic common decency. They could be written in modern language and most would not know its origin.
Following them, reduces pain and destruction in every part of a person’s life and in society. It makes no difference that it’s historically connected to a religion. It’s common sense.
Haimartia. And Jesus claims, 'My yoke is easy, and my burden is light"--it seems to me that the 10 Commandments are not very difficult to follow. Though I confess to real fault, personally, with the fourth.
It is the positive Instructions we all have a problem following. The negative ones, for most of mankind, seem easy.
It was not until we started ‘guarding the Sabbath’ (which is how it is in the original Hebrew), that we realized how hard the positive ‘commands’ are the hardest to keep. But there are great rewards for doing so.
Your term 'guarding the Sabbath" led me to investigation, and finding a YouTube "Homeschooling Torah", a Messianic group. Had to watch without sound, tomorrow can turn on sound. Thanks again.
Having been raised in an every-Sunday megachurch, I struggle with #4 now too. At the same time, I'm finding real growth among two or three gathered in His name at all kinds of times and places.
Oh Reasonable Horses—thank you! Except for most Sundays in summers, I was in church with parents or husband all of my life—until 9 years ago, when PCUSA was going, going going-er woke. Meant to return, have not. In these last years I’ve experienced 3 very unusual (for a woman of my age) and unpleasant and long-lasting sheddings (as I believe they are, since I had been in the company of known jabbees before each event). So I avoid the company of anyone whom I do not know to be un-jabbed. This too shall pass, I tell myself. Your last sentence expresses my own experience. You might see Max Wang’s post on “why I don’t go to church any more”
Recognizing the value of the Ten Commandments brings us back to affirming the importance of morals in society. Do they even teach morals anymore? I'm sure they will in Louisiana now.
What I see at work with this generation is that morality is defined by each individual and there is not a moral baseline. They even have a problem with the word in legal contracts. For example, a lease said the leassor could not commit crime or immoral acts on the property and one of the employees had a problem with that word.
Isn’t it a sad state of affairs,that rules to live by would be more effective if put in modern language, as if some guy wrote them, instead of most Americans preferred deity?
Read the Old Testament. God's chosen people would obey for awhile and all went well. Then they would "do evil in the sight of God" and it was hell on earth. They would repent, go back to God and God would graciously tend to them again ...a very simplified rendering. But the point is, anytime we go against the teachings of God we are going to face just what we are seeing in the culture today and It is horrible. But, our Loving Father waits for His children to turn back to Him and our land will be healed.
The children of Israel never could have obeyed every one of the 10 Commandments. They failed, just as we do today. Keeping God first helps guide us as we surrender to Him.
Hence the continual ritual of sin offering. Slaughtering animals all day long every day (though I suppose not on the Sabbath). Rendered unnecessary by the one, great, final sin offering.
That’s cause for tremendous and justified optimism, Deb. On my mind for a year now: “If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land” (2 Chronicles 7:14). I'm counting on that with you.
And, it’s heating up so much more. Will we see the Traditional Latin Mass banned? Will we go underground to worship? Vigano is now an even bigger target.
I saw the video and it was literally a 1 second head touch. My impression was JB was leaning in close and got a little off balance for a second. His condition warrants that. Anyway, the photo was just that 1 second and there was no head touch lingering or anything. I seriously think the man can barely stand, so leaning in close is a challenge. But yea. Still pretty creepy.
Feel free to join the protestants, we won't tell you what kind of ceremonies you can or cannot have in your worship. :P
More seriously, if you become convinced that the current Pope is not ok, there are always options like the Old Catholics. God does not want his people to remain in service of a false leader.
We have some noteworthy leaders, in the hierarchy, who are speaking out against this Pope. As for us, in the trenches, we will stand up for the Magisterium of the Church and not be forced to flee by infiltrated evil. Traditional Latin Mass attendees are being persecuted but we will not give up the Mass of the Ages, even if forced underground or martyred.
This has happened with men of the cloth and leadership throughout history and in all Christian traditions. . He is a head Bishop, that's all. He is not God. A Pope, a Patriarch, a Priest, a Bishop, a Pastor, Vicar, Archbishop, etc...are all men. Thus, like us all, they can be led astray by the evil one.
Others are not, and they can become great saints of God.
As a former Catholic, we were taught the pope is infallible. That, among other teachings of that institution, just did not gel with my growing faith in Jesus alone.
rudderless. and a cult. or not a cult. but loving and if you dont do what i say its hell on earth. but loving. and if you disagree we'll fight you to the last one standing. but loving. and merciful.
A substantial portion of the population thinks "love is love." Or so we are told. Most likely a substantial portion is too intimidated to say what they really think. Aggressive attacks by adherents will do that.
Apparently you personally think Roman Catholicism is "a cult" and you're using a supposed "substantial portion of the population" to validate your hostility. "Everyone believes this" worked so well with Covid, why not use it with attacking the Church?
I have a family member that is Catholic -converted. We are not. We are Protestants. While I have seen good growth in that persons relationship with the Lord via the Catholic Church we also have some heavy concerns that seem cult like from this, but wouldn’t call it a cult. There seems to be a heavy leaning on the Catholic Church being the only one who can interpret scripture correctly. If another person including ourselves (having been to Bible school to learn all things biblical) or a Pastor with Bible training reads scripture and interprets its meaning to ourselves THAT is frowned upon because the catechism didn’t say it. Meaning if there is a discrepancy only the Catholic Church interpretation is correct. That sounds cultish. That’s a huge red flag. The thinking that a priest can absolve sins. Huge red flag. If a priest can absolve sin what do we need Jesus for? Why does the Bible say there is only one mediator between God and man, the man Christ Jesus. No priest. Why do Catholics need to do penance for sin when Jesus already paid the price. Besides natural consequences and whatever consequences God places on someone individually via Himself, why is there this incessant need to do penance? Baffling to me. Praying to dead people. Praying to saints? Aren’t we all who believe and live for Jesus referred to as saints. Why place one above another when the Bible says we are all sinners and all need Jesus. Placing these people on pedestals seems contrary to what Gods plan and design is. He uses us all in different ways - why place some above others based on their works? Isn’t that how we ended up with “celebrities”. And Mary? I do know Catholicism does not worship Mary even though it appears that way. However, finding out the church believes Mary was sinless makes my heart sick. The Bible is CLEAR that ALL have sinned. Except Jesus. If Mary was sinless why didn’t the Bible say except Jesus and Mary? I know the Bible is silent on some things but that’s too big to leave out since it clearly states that we are ALL sinners and need Jesus. If Mary was sinless then Jesus sacrifice was for nothing. If Mary was sinless then the Bible contradicts itself and can’t be trusted. No. Somewhere along the line MAN came in and perverted the church both Protestant and Catholic.
I know I just threw a lot out there. I don’t expect you to answer all that. I think it is merely to answer your question as to why some people might see the Catholic Church as cultish. Their teaching is absolute and everyone else is wrong. Follow the leader- the pope, even though he has gone off the rails. 🤷♀️
"The thinking that a priest can absolve sins. Huge red flag."
Jesus: Thou art Peter (rock), and upon this rock I build my Church. I give to thee the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whose sins you loose on Earth will be loosed in Heaven. Whose sins you bind will be bound in Heaven. Mt. 16:18-19
CStone - I replied as well to that thinking. It has always seemed flawed to me that Catholics think Peter was the first pope. 🤔 Man is flawed and sinless. It doesn’t make sense God would build His massive “church” on the back on one sinful man. He gave the keys to the kingdom of heaven to His church - those who confess Him as Lord and Savior. That’s who the power to bind and loose on heaven and earth belong to. Not one individual man who was also sinful to boot who other sinful men came behind and built a doctrine on. If the Pope is exhaled high - (another red flag as Jesus is the only ONE deserving to be lifted high and exalted the way Catholics do the Pope) how do we reconcile this current Pope who is NOT affirming the TRUTH to Gods people but compromising the truth in shameful ways? Even Catholics are sickened by this current Pope.
In my opinion, the biggest error the Roman church fell into is by assuming that there ought to be a "boss" in the church who is in charge of everyone else, thereby ignoring the teaching of Jesus that "the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, but not so with you. He who would be the greatest must become a servant."
Once you take away that misunderstanding, the entire "monarchical" structure collapses, as does the need to argue over whether or not Peter (or anyone else) was given special authority.
(Though, speaking of that, I recall Dr Gavin Ortlund made a video a little while back reviewing the early church fathers and finding that it was only a *minority* of them who believed that it was Peter himself who was the Rock in question; most held that it was either his confession, Christ himself, or all of the apostles together.)
Let's go over what Jesus said, again. Jesus (speaking directly to PETER):
"You are ROCK, and upon this ROCK I will build My Church."
He does not say "You speak the TRUTH and upon this TRUTH, I will build My Church."
Note that He has renamed Simon to ROCK in Greek, "Petros."
Note also, that He gives Peter - not the Church as a whole which doesn't get created until the Descent of the Holy Spirit - the symbol of His authority, the keys.
Note also, that He gives PETER , "this ROCK" the power to forgive sin, AND the power to withhold sin.
Yes and no..even the ancient first church honored the Bishop of ancient Rome as 'first among equals' of all the regional Bishops. (Though the 'rock' could also be interpreted as truth).
The Orthodox still accept that position as it was in church history. When the Western and Eastern branches of the Church split, the Pope became the head Bishop of what was the western part of the Church, becoming the Roman Catholic church...and that is how the Papacy evolved in the west.
In the east, there is no one central figure head, though there are regional head Bishops called Patriarchs. (Constantinople.
Interesting. Much like how the Protestant church was birthed on a man saying wait a minute. And read Romans. And realized there was some things not right in the Catholic teaching. (Simplifying it obviously).
It’s interesting that the family member is seeing how different diocese are run differently. And a current involvement in one has been a horrific experience with very ethically compromised leadership. It’s disheartening. Not the only diocese to have this going on. My response was….just like the Protestant denominations! Because we are ALL flawed sinful people who eventually want things done “my way” and sin creeps in and taints what was good. This Catholic convert never could understand why there were the different denominations. Didn’t make sense. That was a draw to the Catholic Church at that point. One church. They all teach the same doctrine. I actually like that personally. But “man”
always messes it up. We see it now in today’s day. Why are we arrogant to think it didn’t go on 1,000 years ago too in the Catholic Church. Catholics think that their theologians and doctrine are the only right interpretation. But, that only applies if “man” isn’t getting in the way of that. Look at all the false teachers. Again, they were present 1,000 years ago too. And so was the devil. And if we think the devil didn’t come in and twist the truth to some of those men we are pretty arrogant. Those theologians are not flawless either.
I think I’m over simplifying this but it’s hard to do justice when typing online 😂
That, and we can’t help but get a little fired up talking about our Lord and Savior. I’m blessed by your words. I agree with you and think it’s important to realize flaws in the earthly church are inevitable. Christ solved that problem by replacing the priestly class with Himself. Like 1 Timothy 2:5 tells us, “There is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus.” That's the new covenant in a nutshell, no? Ultimately, it’s between God and each individual. It’s personal. Some individuals like this or that church, and some like to gather in His name by two’s or three’s. Being anchored in His word and prayer is the only essential. It takes a lot of pressure off knowing that Christians can disagree on things that aren’t points of salvation.
“This rock” He did not say On Peter I will build my church.
He renamed Peter (a stone) but when He says “this” you have to look at the whole context of what was being said. Back up to v. 15. He asked Peter who Peter thought He was. Peter said “You are the Christ, Son of the living God”. Then Jesus replies that Peter is blessed because this was not revealed to him by flesh and blood but by “My Father in Heaven”. and on THIS rock (massive rock) I will build my church. What is THIS rock? I submit that it was not Peter, but the confession Peter made that Jesus is the Christ, Son of the Living God - the Messiah long waited for. THATs the entire basis of THE CHURCH. Not a single person but a massive collective group of people who confess Jesus as the Son of God.
Romans 10:9 “that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.”
That makes sense in full context of what Jesus said.
Well, I see it the other way and think it’s pretty clear as well. I think we will have to agree to disagree and move on. And thus we have Catholic Churches and Protestant churches. And both think the other is wrong. It’s a good thing the main thing is Jesus and not a church. Receiving a church into your heart isn’t it. Receiving Christ is. So that’s what matters. Thanks for your input. I always enjoy your comments.
Having grown together for 1054 years, the Orthodox church also believes in confession.
it is an amazingly cathartic, humbling, and soul searching sacrament . The Priest absolves with the authority given him as an elder, and then he counsels, and helps the penitent.
*He* isn't absolving sin. The ancient prayers are very clear. God is! He is simply counciling as one who intercedes on behalf of the Church and his parishioners to God.
Hi Sunnydaze - you bring up many good questions/concerns that non-Catholics have. “A lot,” as you say! This isn’t the forum to respond, but I would say if you’re truly curious about those topics, you might check out “Rome Sweet Home,” by Scott Hahn. Not that you would ever convert as he did, but as a former ordained minister (Presbyterian, I think?), he answers all those questions very thoroughly. Who knows, you might enjoy it!
Like Jefferson denouncing political sects, we who know Christ must stop dividing ourselves over how many angels can dance on the head of pin and get on with making disciples. The apostle Paul put a sharp point on that: “I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and him crucified” (1 Corinthians 2:2). “There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called; one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all” (Ephesians 4:4-6). Pardon my Protestant roots, but sola scriptura, solus Christus, sola fide, sola gratia, soli Deo gloria.
Except that sola scriptura not only doesn't appear in Holy Scripture ANYWHERE (thus refuting itself), but it is EXPRESSLY refuted by St. Paul where he teaches us to hold fast to the traditions (not scripture) that were handed down to us.
Further, Scripture refutes the heresy of sola fide as well in St. James' epistle.
Neither does the Trinity appear in scripture, and I doubt you're about to reject THAT. You also need to consider that at the time Paul was writing, the New Testament had not been compiled into its present form, so all that the believers had to go on were the "teachings handed down" to them by the missionaries.
Sola Scriptura is simply an extension of that -- now that the teachings of the Apostles are recorded in writing, we are to hold fast to them and judge any later teaching by whether it lines up with apostolic teaching, as recorded in the New Testament.
Fred, I expressly refute faulty logic, and I condemn to hell misrepresentations of Scripture. If Paul told you to take a hike, you would be a fool to conclude you must never go jump in a lake. Paul had the Old Testament. Almost certainly, he had the Gospels. All are part of the Christian tradition. All are Scripture.
James is very clear about the importance of action. Galations 2:16 is very clear about the insufficiency of action: “A person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ.” James is not inconsistent with that statement. His point is that action is proof of faith.
Friend, in all modesty and humility, it is put upon me to tell you you have been deceived. I would naturally prefer to remain silent, but I know that I will stand before the throne of the Most High one day soon, and I will be judged by my works and failure of works.
Therefore I tell you that the same Peter (and his successors) whom Jesus gave His authority to bind or loose sins, have authoritatively proclaimed from the chair of Peter that is absolutely necessary to submit to the Church in order to be saved and that no one outside that Church can be saved.
Ask yourself "What did Jesus mean when He gave Peter the keys to the kingdom of heaven, and the power to bind and loose sin?"
Fred, let me demonstrate how this works. In all modesty and humility, it is put upon me to tell you you have been deceived or are trying to deceive. I would naturally prefer to remain silent, but I know that you will stand before the throne of the Most High one day soon, and you will be judged according to God’s grace. “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast” (Ephesians 2:8-9). If you hope to invalidate that statement with verse 10—"For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do”—give it your best shot. I hope you understand Scriptural proof that salvation is through grace and that accepting grace motivates Godly good works, as you reiterate with James below.
Also, please explain how edicts issued by one holy and infallible pope can be invalidated by edicts issued by a different holy and infallible pope. If the Holy Spirit of Jesus Christ is in you, you will cite specific text from Scripture for our mutual edification. I challenge you to invalidate Romans 3:22-25, which plainly vacates your claim to works-righteousness and exempts no man, not any pope, not even Peter: “Righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith.”
If you’re still of a mind that good works earn salvation, please explain the purpose of atonement. Best wishes. May God bless and redeem you.
Thank you. I accept that you are sincere but albeit wrong.
But this is what sincere believers do - we reach out to correct our wayward brothers and sisters because we’d rather offend than to watch them go to Hell.
Second, nowhere did I contend nor do I believe that salvation is obtained by good works. If you have a problem with the quotes from the apostle St. James, that's between you and him.
Third, “please explain how edicts issued by one holy and infallible pope can be invalidated by edicts issued by a different holy and infallible pope.”
They cannot. The Holy Ghost protects Peter and his valid successors from teaching error whole and unchanged (which is the only and narrow way they're infallible.) And of course, the truth cannot change - what is theologically true 1000 years ago is true today and cannot change.
But multiple councils and theologians and popes have infallibly taught that if a Pope were to spout heresy, or deviate in any way from the Deposit of the Faith, then he was not a valid Pope. Pope Paul IV, for just one example, taught that a heretic cannot become a Pope (1559), even if unanimously elected. In that case, the election was null and void.
Current canon law also states that a man who has schemed with others to gain the papacy, can never become Pope. (It has been revealed that the current “pope” Bergoglio was elected through a conspiracy of the St. Gallen mafia.)
Further, that a Pope who resigns due to coercion or threatened with harm, or due to some substantial errors, has not validly resigned.
Few people - even few Catholics - are aware that there have been 30-40 “popes” deposed or later officially recognized as anti popes.
Finally, just in case I was not clear, the so-called "Pope Francis" is NOT pope, any more than my English Labrador is Pope. And for the same ontological reason: neither Labradors nor heretics can ever become Pope.
I am sorry that you were offended, but I would be far sorrier to have not told you the truth and as a result, go to Hell. But to be perfectly honest, it is more my fear of committing sin by omission and hearing my Lord say "Depart from me, I never knew you."
I hope you never do either.
So here it is once more: there is no salvation outside of the Church established by Jesus Christ and given His authority to bind and loose (forgive or not forgive) sins at Mt. 16:18-19.
It’s unfortunate that my comments and Scriptural citations are unclear to you. I take no offense from you, nor do I have any quarrel whatsoever with James. The implications strike me as disingenuous.
I’ll take you at your word about the 30 or 40 popes who were not popes when human beings decided they were not popes. That's but one point on which you argue against your own position. Finding the current pope ambivalent on abortion and gay marriage and bizarrely certain that after 2000 years, suddenly “all religions are true,” you must acknowledge inconsistencies prove he is either not a pope, or the office of the pope is not ordained by Christ.
Back to Romans 3. “All have sinned.” That is not qualified by, “except for Mary, Peter, everybody the Roman Catholics canonize, and the pope du jour unless humans decide he is a fraud.” Based on Scripture—not Vatican I, II, III, or however many more it takes to fully politicize the fundamentals of Scripture—the Roman Catholic Church binds parishioners to doctrines Scripturally false and extraneous to Scripture. It therefore promotes heresy. See Revelation 22:18.
Obviously, not all religions are true. In John 14:6, “Jesus answered, ‘I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.’” Acts 5:29 tells us, “We must obey God rather than human beings.” Since every pope has obviously been fallible, look to the unambiguous 1 Timothy 2:5—“There is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus.” Faith in Christ is always personal and never subject to corporate decree.
I’d take you more seriously if you could accurately quote rather than merely refer to Scripture, but if you say, “Jesus Christ is God and my Lord and Savior,” you are my brother in Christ and a fellow student of The Way. But neither of us are authorities. Clearly, you are not. But 1 Timothy 2:4 tells us that on this side of Paradise, there is only “a knowledge of the truth,” not yet THE knowledge, so I leave it to you "to work out your salvation" (Philippians 2:12).
Again, best to you, and let me encourage you to read Scripture and avoid papal decrees inconsistent with Scripture. To you, the last word if you wish.
I get what you are saying. I do agree that He would’ve come for just one of us. However, if being sinless was attainable then we wouldn’t have needed that sacrifice Jesus made. If Mary did it, then so can someone else. The whole point all through the OT is that no one could get there. The law was given to show that. The law shows throughout the whole OT that a sinless life was unattainable. If Mary….then me too.
Jesus sacrifice was because not one person can attain being sinless. The rest of the Bible is very crystal clear on that point many times. So again, I go back to how Mary is put up on a pedestal and claimed to have been sinless? If it were attainable we wouldn’t have needed Jesus to do what He did. It was BECAUSE of that sin that He went to the cross. Mary was a virgin and Jesus was an immaculate conception. YES! That is why Mary was able to give birth to the Son of God. Not because she was sinless.
Well I still stand by the Bible that she was sinful just like the rest of us. Scripture in no way says or supports your thinking/what you’ve been taught that she was somehow prepared by God to be sinless. Scripture directly contradicts that teaching.
Full of grace..the Roman Catholic church believe that the Theotokos (Mother of God, as she is lovingly referred to in the Eastern church) was immaculate at conception. The Holy Mother herself revealed herself as such in an apparition to St. Bernadette.
The Eastern church. also believes that the blessed Mother of God was, "full of grace and blessed among women" (the Archangel's greeting) and we do affirm Mary's purity and preservation from sin.
We really don't differ much except that the Roman church is more legalistic in approach and codifies dogma, whereas rhe Eastern church approaches such matters of faith in a more organic manner.
AS Anthony says, it does not in any way negate Jesus coming for our salvation.
I appreciate your input here. I really do. But how does “full of grace” = sinless? Grace does not mean sinless. All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. There are numerous scriptures letting us know not one is without sin besides Jesus. How can the leaders of Catholic Church maintain that thinking that everyone but Mary?? So the “early” church supposedly passed this thinking down. How is it that the Catholic teaching is presumed flawless when it’s handed down by “man” over centuries. Dare I say, how do we know the devil himself didn’t infect the thinking of some church leaders back in the day and come up with this theology that has now been believed and written into catholic teachings? Because there is nothing in the Bible that supports such a thing that I can find. And Mary full of grace isn’t it either. One verse does not make a doctrine. It has to be taken into the whole context, the whole counsel of Gods word and nothing anywhere else that I can find in scripture supports Mary being sinless. Does she deserve reverence because of who she is? Yes. Just like Moses, Elijah, Noah, Paul, Joshua, and all the disciples. That list grows when you name every willing person who God used throughout the Bible to further His plan of Jesus coming to save us all. Put up on a pedestal and regarded as sinless therefore more holy than everyone else. Nope. I don’t see it. Jesus is the only One to be put up high and revered as the Perfect and sinless lamb of God. Not one person deserves that reverence besides Him.
I do appreciate my family member making that clear at least. Catholics don’t worship Mary. But they do give Mary a place of adoration and claim her to be sinless like Jesus. Still no. It makes no contextual sense and does not fit with Gods plan of salvation and the reason Jesus needed to come. Otherwise Mary could’ve been hung on the cross being sinless. Everything in my spirit rises up and says “NO. That is not the truth.”
Oh I know. A leader helping teach the conversion class my family member was also helping teach said that person told the class in passing they worship Mary and this family member spoke up and said that was not true and set the record straight. I was pleased with that step but it was concerning it was said at all.
Although we do believe the Theotokos had no actual sin, she was born, as were all the descendants of Adam, with the effect of sin upon her human nature. Yet she was brought into the temple at the young age of three, and there she led a life of prayer, fasting and study of the Scriptures.
Why do you believe that? There is not one thing in scripture to say of Mary’s history and how she was born. The Bible is silent on some issues, which is why there is so much division. Why would God allow such division? It might just be because THAT division keeps us on our knees looking to Him rather than man, for our answers. Every single thing is always about showing us our need for God. Even when talking about the church. If everything was clearly spelled out letter by letter why would we need Him? I think our present knowledge shows the capacity for “man” to think he knows it all and can do life on his own and doesn’t need God. Until reality smacks us in the face individually and it brings us to our knees. I thing God purposefully did not spell it out exactly for us…on purpose.
Where does Scripture say we should only believe what is in the Bible. (Spoiler alert - it doesn't.)
Jesus gave us one Church to rule and teach, and to guide (again, see Mt. 16:18-19.)
He did not say "Read my (future) Bible to come and figure it out for yourselves."
As to why the Church has always taught that Mary was delivered from original sin, consider the Ark of the Covenant in the New Testament. It contained manna, and the tablets of the 10 Commandments, and was meticulously designed by God who forbade anyone except his priests from touching it.
Even so, when it was being transported it started to fall, and a layman with non-consecrated hands innocently reached out to save it, and was instantly struck dead by God himself. See 2 Samuel 6:6-7
If the Ark of the Covenant was so sacred to God, how much more so was the Ark of the New Covenant, Mary whose womb was to bear the Son of God Himself.
The Orthodox Church learns about Mary's early life from the apocryphal Gospel of James, also known as the Protovangelium, which was written in the second century A.D.. This document, along with other manuscripts, provides information about Mary's parents, Joachim and Anne, and Mary's life before she became the mother of Jesus:
And how is that document verified I wonder? Gospel of James? What is that? I’m sorry but all the historical documents provided by the Catholic Church I am not familiar with and when I ask the convert (easiest way to say it) about who verified these to make doctrine that person doesn’t know.
The Gospel is simple. It’s supposed to be. To make it accessible to everyone. Even the Bush people in Alaska or Africa or some remote place not reached by others. How does the Catholic doctrine and history with all these big complicated words and books and centuries old historians that can’t be verified make the Gospel easy for anyone? And to exclude non-Catholics from partaking in communion is also a troublesome piece. Jesus told ALL of us to do this in remembrance of Me…not just Catholics who’ve gone through the churches requirements and confirmation classes. I’ve always struggled with the exclusiveness of the Catholic Church. It’s not inclusive to everyone at any time in the way Jesus said to preach the gospel to the entire world. He is accessible to everyone at any time and I don’t find anywhere where He excludes people because they didn’t join a church. All the rules don’t fit with the entirety of Jesus message and life.
However!
There are aspects of the Catholic Church that I do believe are good. I love the history and I appreciate the traditions. I appreciate the sanctity and importance they place on the mass itself. I think we Protestants treat church flippantly in ways. I think we do not revere communion as we should. There are good things within the Catholic Church and I believe it is filled with Jesus loving people with morals and ethics that speak volumes to others. But I do struggle with the notion that the goal seems to be bringing people into the church rather than bringing people to Jesus. I see this in the convert. I keep saying “why is it so important to get people to convert to Catholicism? Shouldn’t we be converting them to inviting Jesus into their hearts as their Lord and Savior? Joining the Catholic Church and going through all the classes and making sure their marriages are valid in the church doesn’t save them. Jesus does regardless of all that.” I stand by that. It’s what the Protestant church does well. In general I mean. Protestant churches have been exposed recently for their many flaws. Thank goodness Jesus is the One who is not flawed. We are made whole because He made it possible.
I don’t get why Catholics need for Mary to be sinless, or a “perpetual virgin”. How does that add anything to anyone’s faith or relationship with Jesus? Seems like a huge distraction from the things that actually matter.
It's because some influential early church teacher(s) had some messed-up views about sex, including that Adam's sin was an inherited guilt passed on through copulation. Hence, Jesus would have been inevitably "tainted" by Mary if she hadn't been sinless (and, presumably, she would have been sinful if she had not been sexless, in their mind).
Never mind exactly how Mary could have herself been sinless without her own parents being sinless, but you're not supposed to ask that sort of thing.
Cults create a society of ppl who cannot leave out of fear of grave punishment and loss of closest relationships. Catholics are not "Christian" and only in the past sixty years decided they should promote themselves as such. There have been the most horrible sun atrocities committed by Popes over the centuries for the purposes of only worldly wreath, position and fame. They have supported the most evil governments. And you can't get out without fear of hell. Don't tell me that Protestants are the same. Sinners? Yes. Evil resides in the heart of everyone but true Christians don't support or hide FALSE leadership and they can remove such by God's command!
Catholics are not Christians. That statement isn’t correct. I know several Catholics who very much are Christians because I know they have invited Jesus into their hearts and have confessed it and believe it. Their theology and dedication to the Catholic Church concerns me but their devotion to Christ doesn’t and is real. I know them by their fruit too.
I just think that statement was too broad, in my opinion.
I'm not The Judge but there will be many who will say in that day of judgement "But LORD didn't we (do all the right things) in your name? And He will say to them "I NEVER knew you...".
It is not a cult. Orthodox Christians, a substantial part of Christianity (Russia, The Balkans, Greece, parts of the Middle East and populations throughout North America and elsewhere) do NOT believe this at all. We grew out of the same first Christian church, officially separating in 1054.
You, Vonu, of all people, now citing a dictionary? You told me you have your own definitions for words like “Christian” and “Founders.” What's the word for that... hypocrates… hypodrome... hypodermic...?
I must have jumped through the looking glass. “When I use a word,” Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, “it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.”
“The question is,” said Alice, “whether you can make words mean so many different things.”
That's the sociological definition. Under that definition, any religion that has "ritual practices" is termed a cult (which is basically all of them). But hardly anyone outside of academia uses that definition.
The colloquial usage is more closely synonymous with "high-demand and/or controlling religious group". (Or, occasionally it just means "group that I think are heretics"!)
Nope. The transition from Judeism to Catholicism was easy Pharisees+add a little Christ, a little Apostle name dropping, a bone and a piece of fabric and an old letter and It's a new religion based on the old religion.
Christianity is No religion. There's no ritual you can do to be saved.
A fool never knows when to quiet himself. The Roman Catholic church is over 1 billion (1.36 billion in 2022) strong. It is therefore not all that difficult to infiltrate it with evil intent. The fact that it has been infiltrated does not make it a cult, but it does require that when infiltration has occurred, that it be eradicated. We in the Catholic Church are in an existential fight with those who infiltrated this false "pope". We will prevail.
[Jorge Mario Bergoglio may just be the final man to claim the papacy before the utter destruction of Rome—at least according to St. Malachy’s Prophecy of the Popes.
St. Malachy was an Irish bishop in the 12th century. The first native-born Irishman to be canonized, he is known in the Roman Catholic Church for his work as a healer, a miracle worker, and as a reformer of the Church in Ireland.
But what he is most known for today is prophecy. St. Malachy was summoned to Rome in 1139 by Pope Innocent II, and while there, he experienced a vision of future popes, which he then recorded as a series of short phrases. This transcript was then placed into the Vatican Secret Archives, where it lay until 1590. ...] See more:
There is a man whose name I can't remember who claims that there were a few antipopes included in the mainstream chronology of St Malachi popes and that Francis is actually "of the half moon", not "Peter the Roman". So we may have a few left yet.
Thou shalt not kill. Weak men want to escalate wars to make them look tough. We are ruled by insecure warmongers, which is why weak men create hard times…
The Media warmongers because they are paid to warmonger. Journalism is dead in Corporate Media. Reporting Propaganda and mitigating Truth is how they get paid.
the "experts" on diplomacy and peace are/have been actively decrying Trump and the Alt Right globally...this is their greatest enemy and all else is an Olympic event.
That’s why I laugh when I hear women say something like “if women were in charge there would be fewer wars”. I found throughput my career that men were much easier to work with than women. I am not suggesting that this is true of all, or even most women, but it always seemed that those who rose to the top of the power structure usually had a very large chip on their shoulder.
You all have got to be kidding. In all of history, is there ONE woman who stands as a counterexample to men who ploughed through as much of the world as possible, men like Alexander the Great, Julius Caesar, Attila the Hun, Ghengis Khan, Peter the Great of Russia, Napoleon, Hitler, and so forth? As far as bloodthirsty rulers of their own lands, there are no females to compare to the bloodbaths perpetrated by Stalin, Mao or Pot Pot, just to talk about 20th century rulers. Elizabeth 1 of England had a fairly modest body count compared to other rulers of her age, and she didn't warmonger. Catherine the Great of Russia was a little more warlike, but she also was concerned about bringing Russia up to the "standards" of Europe culturally.
Certainly it would be hard to make a case that the handful of women leaders of the 20th century (Margaret Thatcher, Indira Ghandi, Benazir Bhutto, Corazan Aquino, etc. have been more warmongerish that the average male head of state in the 20th and early 21st century.
Not kidding. “Power corrupts” is just as true for women as for men. As you might expect, this has been the subject of research and here is a small excerpt “maybe because we don’t often think of queens as warmongers. But apparently, they were. In fact, between 1480 and 1913, Europe’s queens were 27% more likely than its kings to wage war, according to a National Bureau of Economics working paper (paywall). And like Isabella, queens were also more likely to amass new territory during their reigns, found the paper’s authors, economists Oeindrila Dube and S.P. Harish.”
The rest is of my comment was related to my direct experience in working for, and with, both men and women during a 35 year career as a professional.
I worked in a rate in the Navy that was 99.9% men. The only time I got "put on report" was by a female for "sexual harassment". I put her on a cleaning crew because she was worthless as a grease monkey and afraid to get dirty.
Honestly I'm not seeing the "christian" part very often, given that most of your posts seem to be arguing against what the majority of Christians believe.
Seem being your most important key word, my having never elucidated more than a smidgen of my beliefs.
There are over 200 different Christian denominations and they don't agree with each other on everything they claim to believe. Any majority of such a gaggle would have to be fictional.
I've interpreted it as something like the Richard Dawkins' approach of "obviously religion is made up, but Christian moral values are a good thing for the plebs to believe since they give better outcomes in society".
But I'm really just guessing, since Vonu seems disinclined to elaborate. And mocking Christianity seems like a strange way to proceed if you did indeed want "Christian moral values" to persist in society.
It is quite obvious, that we are in as spiritual war evil versus good. Only God and our repentance of sin well bring our country back. All these baby steps, of course, are good. But we are going to need a massive revival. Keep praying to God, thank you Jeff for clearly articulating. what has been going on.
Because the media is the PR wing of the international bankers’ military-industrial complex and is lavishly rewarded for enabling what G. Edward Griffin calls the Rothschild Formula in his chapter by that name in “The Creature from Jekyll Island”:
“As long as the mechanism of central banking exists, it will be to such men an irresistible temptation to convert debt into perpetual war and war into perpetual debt.”
MGA: Regardless of the shock-value and negative image associated with a band named "Black Sabbath", I've always LOVED this song - thank you for quoting from it! My next band will be required to cover this one.
In my last band, we covered "Won't Get Fooled Again", because to me, that song is both an anthem for the strong-minded and a commentary on the stupidity of the masses.
The singer in the band had a narrower interpretation, however, and in his mind it was about Trump - what an idiotic viewpoint. I replaced him eventually...
Black Sabbath was named and styled after the classic black and white movie title Black Sabbath, which represented a genre that was very popular at the time. Though I am GenX not boomer, I grew up watching all the Bela Lugosi, Peter Lorre, Boris Karloff, Vincent Price, et al. Christians tend to take things too literally in my experience, which just creates unnecessary tension for the person and who the angst is taken out on. Iron Maiden also, among many others of that time (Dio, Holy Diver comes to mind, whose cover causes all sorts of noise from the Moral Majority contingent at the time, trying to censor us.) Number of the Beast, etc, are telling stories, not proselytizing anyone. I lived for all of it, gothic horror movies, lit, music, poetry and, again, the effect was only to immunize me against thought control and coercion from any one, for any reason. Covid was a cake walk, as a result.
I have that movie on DVD! It's classic horror, the kind I tuned into with "Creature Features" as a kid.
I got into building "haunted houses" in my 40s - it began as a throwback to building things to scare kids on Halloween with my dad when I was a kid. When I was 15, I worked in a large haunt in LA, and so all those years later, I thought it would be fun to do that for the neighborhood kids on Halloween.
It ended up being a defining aspect of my character for about 12 years - I created a "company" of like-minded folks with technical and artistic talents and interest in the macabre. We did 4 major "haunts" around Sonoma County and several smaller events as well. When that portion of my life ended, I got into doing often-elaborate Halloween decor at the place that I live - we get literally thousands of trick-or-treaters on my street. They filmed two scenes from the movie "Scream" at my landlady's house. I had Halloween parties here for several years in a row, too. The last three years I did the parties, my band played in the driveway and we had big audiences - it was a blast.
I never catered to any satanic elements and always leaned into creating atmospheres with darkness and sound, rather than well-lit splashy gore.
In 2020, while home from work during the initial "2 weeks to flatten the curve" phase, I dreamed up my Halloween display while sitting on my balcony overlooking the yard. 7 months and $3500.00 later, I had an invisible dog that charged out of a doghouse in the middle of the yard and charged at passersby on the sidewalk from behind a short hedge, barking ferociously.
This effect involved two networked programmable logic controllers, a custom multi-channel sound system I developed, pneumatic props, and Arduino-controlled dim-able ultraviolet lighting, all triggered from the press of a button.
Because of Covid, the neighborhood was really quiet that year - instead of crowds, we had small bands of curious people going through the hood to see if anybody was doing anything for Halloween. These were my "victims", and they really enjoyed my thing. I realized after the fact that this would have never worked with big crowds - all my subtle sound designs would have been lost amid all that additional loudness.
I still have all that equipment, which could easily be re-purposed to do other things. Just waiting for the next big inspiration. I still want to hang Fauci in effigy out in front of the house. Maybe next year, after more people are aware of his monstrous deeds.
I think my neighbor and I are working on a flying saucer landing and/or flying between our houses...
Wow!! That all sounds so awesome! In my younger days, I knew a guy, artist, that made paper mache creatures, life size, but the AV and moving creatures you describe I’d love to see. The invisible dog sounds amazing! I love the macabre, Victorian style, like the Edgar Allan Poe stories brought to life. Even as a child, I preferred the black and white movies because of the effect. Moody, atmospheric, and ultimately beautiful. The Victorian era was really interesting. They elevated death to an artform with the rituals associated with mourning back then. The weaving together of tragedy with beauty, the belief in life after death, even with phenomena like catalepsy, really appealed to me aesthetically and spiritually too. It’s too bad gore replaced that later on. Edgar Allan Poe’s a great example of weaving death, love, longing and terror together into a multifaceted experience and art.
Most of the time, we forget, in our Constitution, WE The People are intended to be the highest level of government, which we delegate to the state or federal government. BUT we have been like absentee landlords, myself included. We have a lot of squatters in government now.
I agree with the commenter you highlighted, posting the 10 Commandments will in no way fix the broken public school system. I am a recently retired middle school public school teacher and the last 5 years of teaching were the worst. A poster of the 10 Commandments will not change the lack of discipline and lack of parental involvement in many public schools.
Yes. It’s progress though. The enemy moves in small steps that take decades. Then they POUNCE when we are weak. The courts since the 60s weakened morality and 2020 was the POUNCE attack.
The 10 Commandments are just basic common sense. Basic decency. It’s a sign the courts and current generation are sick of the results of the prior.
The point is, don't give up. Put those commandments back in the schools. Incremental change - it's what the leftists have been doing for years. Time to do same.
This is the right offensive move. God’s gracious guidance through His Law is always the right way and should always be held up by our leaders and taught to our children. Well done, Louisiana.
And notice that "the enemy" pounces immediately on any attempt to shift the culture to a more conservative bent. The conservatives generally just say "meh, not that big a deal" when "the enemy" is applying their small incremental steps. Not a good tactic for conservative mindets.
Johnny, I have to ‘like’ this too! But it is “triggering” common sense, and IMEx, folks generally resist being triggered. I do appreciate Jeff’s insight regarding the Constitution! The timing right before a major election does cause me pause. It will certainly be exploited by the left.
I don’t think it is intended to do that so the argument itself is flawed. It is only God who changes the hearts of people, if they ask Him or allow Him to. But, being led sideways like this country has for so long has ushered in an evil never welcomed before. Now it is openly welcomed and summoned. It’s time to change the atmosphere and get back to the basic principles that started us off on the right foot. Man always goes sideways without God whether you believe in Him or not. You don’t have to believe the truth for the truth to still be the truth. The Constitution or Bill of Rights or Declaration of Independence were never designed to be living and changing with societal pressures. The minute that started, we went sideways. Time to go back and undo what was done. 🤷♀️
Starting with murdering unborn innocent gifts from God. Next maybe it’s time to put some morality back in the public’s view. Let’s start training this generation up with moral rights and wrongs. Like no you can’t choose your gender because it violates biology and common sense.
Everything is backward. Time to set it back on the right path.
But if adopted as the school norms and enforced consistently, schools should notice a shift in culture and climate over time. Changes in behavior come slowly in schools, especially in middle schools. We’ve instituted a LOT of change in ours (MS principal, here), and we are seeing progress (we can’t post the 10 commandments, but we do post Love and Logic norms). The progress is slow, but we’re getting there!
The kids are only in there 3 or 4 years and they move on. Each school year is an opportunity to instill basic decency, or destroy it. Thank you for being a voice of sanity in the school system.
There's a good book out, called "Redeemed Unredeemable."
and a Proverb (22:6) which says to ''Train up a child in the way he should go; even when he is old he will not depart from it.''
I would say that the seeds should be planted, and if one becomes a prodigal for a time, when one becomes more mature and been through tough times, as long as we are breathing, we can return to the right path. All will die, it's just a matter of what state that person will be in at that moment. Will a person accept the grace of God, and His sacrificial love, or not? At the moment of death, we confirm our choice and cement our status as one of the redeemed or unredeemed.
First tutor spiritually, is the letter of the law (the commandments), then the fulfillment of the law on our behalf by Jesus, then if we accept it, the spirit of the law in the person of the Holy Spirit to give us the ability to abide by the law through His tutorship. That is how we become sealed for redemption.
I say let the states exercise their rights to introduce the ten commandments to children. It's a great first step.
If anyone objects to the 10 Commandments I would just ask, which of those do you not agree with? And then you know what kind of person you're dealing with.
Frankly, if they weren't in the Bible, they would be simple logical statements on how to live life well. If people reject simple logic merely because it has a spiritual context, then they need spiritual help.
The history in my school district is that parents complained about homework for the high school kids (Johnny has a job, Sally has to babysit the younger ones), so they came up with 90 minute classes so there's instruction time and homework time. As a substitute teacher, omg, it's torture. And really, most of the kids still don't get anything done. It's the legacy of NCLB only we're leaving all kids behind.
My former district stopped giving any homework at all. State test scores get lower every year, but they can see no connection to academic rigor and academic achievement. “We don’t want anyone to feel bad is their
I can see the frustration in our teachers' faces about these kids who won't meet their actual potential. The office staff are frustrated with the parents.
Part of the problem are the nonsense requirements from the state. Tbh, we should be streaming kids earlier into technical/apprenticeships, community college and university tracks. A single high school diploma for all might require different levels of mastery. While we're at it, let's make mastery great again.
All destroyed the local schools where teachers were allowed to teach.
And our school records stayed in the local system.
Data is the god of today’s “education.”
That data doesn’t stay local but is in Fed hands. Just like medicine… electronic record keeping. The Feds know I didn’t comply & take those experimental shots.
This I agree. We have let too much evil in but it is a start. If The 10 Commandment are allowed to be posted then they can be read, taught and discussed. When I was in school the Pledge of Allegiance was recited every morning and we learned what it meant and why we recited it. Baby steps are better than no steps. .
It may or may not fix the broken system but Jeff was trying to redirect the conversation today from whether we agree to whether Louisiana has the right, and it sounds like they do.
Considering that the Establishment clause applies to the federal government and not the states, it seems within their rights as a state to impose this rule regardless of how we each feel about it.
It is true that without invested teachers who would guide students in thinking about the 10 commandments, it won't do much. But it opens the possibility of a conversation, which isn't there at all now.
I do think people forget that there was a reason America attracted so many people from so many different places and religions. People came back when they knew Christianity was influencing this country because it offered something better than the country they left. And Judeo-Christianity was the force undergirding the freedoms and flourishing they sought.
So it sounds good to take it all away when we now have so many religions, but without the one that sees people with the most dignity ("made in the image of God"), we will lose the flourishing people came here for in the first place.
Many elementary schools in my area have been trying to reinforce, and celebrating, good character traits in students. Add to that the fact that a student is sitting in a classroom, for whatever amount of time, who can see the poster with the 10 commandments on it (even if the teacher never reinforces it verbally). You are at least exposing them to these thoughts/teachings about living a good life. Will it change a persons life? You never know what can be used to help a person become a better person. I believe it is a good start. Just a thought.
Spare the rod and “spoil” the child. Or in other words when parents fail to discipline a child (sometimes physical punishment is needed) the child will grow up to be an unruly, undisciplined adult with little or no regard for rules or the law, hence “spoiled.” Our government welfare programs incentivize single parent households where dispensing discipline too often becomes a difficult, burdensome chore for a single parent, usually the mother.
I agree with both your points, schools are terrible(I did after-school programs for 20 years), and posting the 10 commandments isn't going to help.
The part that I think gets passed over is that mandating the posting of rules from a particular religion is what will turn off independent voters, like posting 'pride' crap does to sane people. I'm sure tranny teachers can find some gay propaganda that sounds reasonable, but its the context and the symbols associated with the posting that is the problem.
IMHO Trump will not be president and the tyranny that we have experienced over the past few years will get amplified using things like this 10 commandments law to justify their need for control. Similar to what they're doing now, reminding everyone about the SCOTUS ruling on abortion the summer before '22 voting. Mandating things based on ideology doesn't work when you are in the minority.
The fact that Jason and Corrie’s story was broadcasted on a major platform for all to read - and have these ideas of polygamy and sexual orientation planted in their psyche - is proof that this was a satanic/spiritual attack: https://unorthodoxy.substack.com/p/are-we-under-satanic-attack
I just talked about this in my recent podcast on the topic of “Phantasmagoria.” Phantasmagoria is a mix of “fantasy” and “gore.” So while it sounds like a fantasy to have sexual liberation, you’re missing the gore aspect of the sexual damage you’re doing with being poly. A lot of our society is phantasmagoric, we just gotta pay attention: https://unorthodoxy.substack.com/p/exploring-complexity-and-spirituality
I just wish people who want to play around wouldn’t get married. And when people marry the people they committed adultery with, guess what usually happens?. I feel sorry for the kids.
There was a saying back when I was much younger, don't know if it is still around: "If he will cheat WITH you, he will cheat ON you." Of course, nowadays you could also say, "If she will cheat with you, she will cheat on you." Additionally, with today's pronouns garbage, we should probably rewrite the whole thing to: "If he/she/they/ze/zir?/ will cheat with you, he/she/they/ze/zir?/ will cheat on you."
As far as the kids are concerned, they are NOT all right! This behavior damages kids no matter how the adults try to sugar coat it, and the kids will take this damage into their own relationships.
While we can often learn a great deal about words by pulling them apart, it's important to look at the real etymology, not just what English words the parts look like. In the case of phantasmagoria, it's
> From French phantasmagorie, from Ancient Greek φάντασμα (phántasma, “ghost”) + possibly either ἀγορά (agorá, “assembly, gathering”) + the suffix -ia or ἀγορεύω (agoreúō, “to speak publicly”).
Which makes sense given its definition: "A popular 18th- and 19th-century form of theatre entertainment whereby ghostly apparitions are formed."
"Two quick points. First, America was founded as a Judeo-Christian nation."
False. It was founded as a Christian nation. Every single founding father was a Christian. No other religions. The term 'Judeo-Christian' only appeared in common usage since the 1950s. It's a ridiculous made up term.
Jewish people hate the term. Just google it and see how they trash the concept.
Christians should stop pushing the idea as well. Stop being 'inclusive' by trying to glom these opposing theologies and stand for your own religion.
The term refers to the Bible-based religion. The Bible is a "Jewish" book, like it or not. All our laws stem from the Ten Commandments, and the system of judges.
Agreed. It stems from having the same value system. God's moral law doesn't change. What God said was an abomination in the OT is still an abomination today.
Agreed... and Jesus, Paul and John all described how the religion that rejected their promised Messiah was an abomination before God and warned them of the judgement to come within their generation that would destroy the Temple of God and leave not one stone upon another. What God considered an abomination was clearly described by the Prophets in the OT Scriptures.
No, those of the Jewish religion live by the Talmud. The Messiah roundly condemned the Pharisees and the Sadducees for their legalistic perversion of the Biblical Old Testament faith. Judaism of today still follows the belief the Messiah condemned as an abomination. The Old Testament is God's Word. It's not a Jewish invention as is the Talmud. Jesus is God incarnate and all of the Scriptures are His Word. Judaism rejects all of that.
Utter nonsense. The Messiah was a Jew, from the Tribe of Judah. All the disciples were Jewish. Paul/Saul was a Jew. All the scriptures written by the disciples AND Paul, the entire New Testament, are books written TO and FOR the Jewish congregations first, then to the other Tribes of Israel scattered abroad among the nations. They connect directly to the scriptures of the Torah and all the books of the prophets. The Messiah taught them.
Furthermore, the original followers of The Way, The Jewish Messiah, AFTER his death and resurrection, KEPT the Ten Commandments, and ALL the commanded Holy Days and Feasts, as did the Messiah himself. They were never "done away with", either then or now. They are clearly "forever", as is stated in the so-called "old" testament.
The facts are the facts. One can accept them, or reject them. The Jews at the time of the Messiah rejected them.
I understand your confusion. Race does not define belief. The Old Testament is not "Jewish". It is the Word of God and the 10 Laws are God's Law, not "Jewish" law. In fact, the Talmud is the law of the "Jewish" religion. You are affected by the semantical confusion between Jew and "Jewish".
Totally agree with you Dave. Scripture in the NT speaks for itself. Scripture is pretty clear on the issue of Jewish and Gentile peoples.
Galatians 3: 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. (Meaning we are all offered salvation in Christ. Each person must determine whether they will place their faith in Christ to be reconciled to God or they will attempt to save themselves by their works. The issue of whether a person is Jewish or not is irrelevant).
2 Timothy 3:16-17 All Scripture is inspired by God and beneficial for teaching, for [b]rebuke, for correction, for training in righteousness; so that the man or woman of God may be [c]fully capable, equipped for every good work. Acts 17:10-11 As soon as it was night, the believers sent Paul and Silas away to Berea. On arriving there, they went to the Jewish synagogue. Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.
(When these were written, the New Testament canon had not yet been complied; therefore the immediate application would be to the OT.)
Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. (Salvation is open to all who have faith in Jesus Christ)
Jesus Himself said in Matthew 5:17 that he did not come to abolish the law but the fulfill it.
Paul explains in Romans 7 that the law (OT) isn’t sin, but it is a tutor to show us our sin and bring us to repentance. Remember there is not good news of salvation without the bad news of understanding that you are a sinner condemned under God’s holy wrath.
The Bible is not a Jewish book. The Bible is the Word of God and Jesus was the incarnation of that Word. Judaism perverted the Word and they live by the Talmud. They rejected and now reject the Messiah as God and are counted among the heathen. When Christ is accepted, then all are grafted back into the true olive tree. Until then, they are not a Bible-based religion.
"The Qur’aan tells us a lot of wonderful things about Jesus. As a result, believers in the Qur’aan love Jesus, honor him, and believe in him. In fact, no Muslim can be a Muslim unless he or she believes in Prophet Jesus."
--
Whereas Jews see Jesus as a trouble maker and a heretic.
The difference is that strictly religious Jews will not kill you for worshipping Jesus, they'll just refuse to have anything to do with you.
Whereas strictly religious Muslims will execute you for blasphemy and idolatry for worshipping and preaching Jesus.
(Also worth noting that even though Muslims claim Jesus as a prophet, they ret-con everything he said or did to make it line up with their own religion, and they do NOT take kindly to the real Jesus who is the Son of God, God come in the flesh.)
Jesus clearly affiliated himself with his Jewishness, stating that he came for "the lost sheep of the house of Israel." The Gospel is for "the Jew first." Also, if a Muslim becomes a Christian, he/she is killed, often by family members. They have a fanatical hatred for designating Jesus as God's Son. Have you ever been to Israel, or any other country in the Middle East? The contrast in civility and culture is stark. I believe you are mistaken about the origins and heart of Christianity. We are "grafted in" to the promises originally made to the Jews.
The phrase "Judeo-Christian" is an oxy-moron. There is no common ground between Christianity and Judaism. The Gospels made it very clear what Jesus thought of the way Judaism perverted the Word of God which was the Old Testament.
To the contrary, God Himself as the Son of God and the Messiah, came to His own and they rejected him. Judaism does not accept Christ as the Messiah as foretold in the OT Scriptures. Judaism worships a false god as Jesus described extensively in the Gospels. Simply put, Christians and Jews do not worship the same God. There is no common ground.
Christ himself was described as "Son of David". He was (and therefore still is) Jewish. He said "Do not think I have come to abolish the law, but to fulfill it." Clearly he was speaking of the Jewish law. If God himself describes Himself as Jewish, I will take him at His Word.
Yes, of course, the Messiah was descended from the line of David and racially is a "Jew". When the Messiah came, Jesus condemned the "Jewish" faith as a perversion of God's Word in the OT.
"Jewish law" is the Talmud and is antithetical to God's Law in the Bible and was roundly condemned by God Himself as the incarnated Son of God and Messiah. The "Jewish" religion or Judaism reject Him when he came to them and as a result suffered the judgement of God: "because these are the Days of Vengeance, in order that ALL THINGS WHICH ARE WRITTEN MAY BE FULFILLED." Luke 21:22
He only condemned those who perverted it. Just as there are 49,000 so-called ‘Christian’ (also a made-up word) denominations……most all perverting the Word…..or there wouldn’t be 49,000 different ones.
The only WORD that could be made flesh was the TORAH.
There are some Instructions (commands) that are strictly for the High Priest. Some are for those priests who were not High priests. Then there are Instructions for men, Instructions for women, Instructions for children.
So. Not everyone had to keep 613 commandments. Just those addressed specifically to either their position in the Temple Service or to their gender…..even to their age, in some cases.
Those Instructions were reasonable and, if one truly loved HIM, easy to keep.
The priesthood, in Yeshua’s day, had become infested with Edomites…..’wolves in sheep’s clothing’. (Like our own government today……God gave them the leaders they deserved because of their disobedience).
You think the Jews killed Yeshua, but I read and see that He GAVE His life. No one could TAKE His life. And He said “I did not come to condemn the world, but that the world through ME might be saved.”
His followers were Jews…..many Pharisees, others ordinary Jews.
The ‘church’ persecuted the Jews in Rome. Martin Luther was no ‘hero of the faith’ he was a murderous man who burned Jewish followers of Messiah in their home if they kept Sabbath.
The ‘church’ is as riddled (maybe more so) with lies and hatred and immorality….especially sexual, and GREED and lust for power, as the Sanhedrin ever was.
The church needs to take a good look in the mirror and see the completed log cabin in its eyes. The hatred of Jews is WAY out of line in the ‘church’.
Judaism is based on the Talmud. That is their law. The Messiah roundly condemned the Pharisees and the Sadducees for their legalistic perversion of the Biblical Old Testament faith. Judaism of today still follows the belief which the Messiah condemned as an abomination. The Old Testament is God's Word. It's not a Jewish invention as is the Talmud. Jesus is God incarnate and all of the Scriptures are His Word. Judaism rejects all of that.
As for who killed Him, it was the Romans who nailed Jesus to the Cross. Why? In Matt 22:17, He is asked by the Pharisees, "Tell us, therefore, what do You think? Is it lawful to pay taxes to Caesar, or not?”... And He said to them, “Render therefore to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s.”..." People focus exclusively on "render unto Caesar" not understanding the revolutionary nature of His answer.
Under Roman law, Caesar was "god" and he owned everything. When Jesus said to render unto God the things that are God's, He was saying there is a God above Caesar and everything does NOT belong to Caesar. That was a statement of sedition and treason against the Roman state and it is for that reason the Romans crucified Him. Jesus was killed for being a revolutionary against the Roman state.
Been with you, Phil, up until the end when you suggest the Roman's killed Jesus for rebelling against the Roman state. That's clearly not the case. Pilot saw no Roman laws being broken by Jesus. It was the Jewish crowds in Jerusalem whipped up by their religious leaders shouting "Crucify Him!" that led to His Passion.
Having said that, the most important commandments (as Jesus again responds to baiting Jewish religious leaders) is that the two most important commandments are to Love God above all and Love your neighbor as yourself (especially your enemies). It's not easy being a Christian. Love for all mankind is at the center of Christian life. That cannot be said for any other religion that I've encountered.
What you say is true... and of course I wasn't there firsthand. The Gospels are concerned with the reaction of the Jews who, at the behest of the Sanhedrin, continuously called for Jesus to be crucified for blasphemy. (Sound a bit familiar huh?) Nothing is really said about the basis in Roman law Pilate used to justify his decision to give in to the Sanhedrin and sentence Jesus to death. The focus of the gospel accounts is on the reaction of the Jews to Jesus. So I am taking a bit of speculating license to infer that Jesus' statement of "render unto God that which is God's" would justify or allow Pilate to impose the death sentence for sedition and treason against Caesar. Obviously, when Jesus gave that advice to the Pharisee disciples and the Herodians, He knew that advice was sedition under Roman law. The Pharisees didn't catch Him in a blasphemy as they had plotted but they did get Him to speak against Caesar and they could use that against Him later.
I am not aware of any condemnation by Christ of Jewish religion. Indeed, my Lord and Savior is the son of a Jewish girl, and talking smack about his Mom does not seem helpful. Quite the opposite - one can hardly be more "Jewish" than to be Catholic.
Here we go again on the misconceptions of Christianity, Judaism, and what the Bible actually is, and taught. I am loathe to engage in this discussion. Perhaps later.
Jeff makes it like Judaism is a friend of Christianity, and therefore sending 4 BILLION a year to Israel every year (on top of $25 BILLION just this year for the Gaza extermination) yet they don't even accept Jesus as a prophet.
Even as Islam does, and in fact requires followers to acknowledge Jesus as a prophet of God.
This is all because of a false theology that has corrupted the American church which is now preoccupied with the Great Escape, ie the Rapture, and an always soon-to-be, any day now, end of the world called The End Times.
All of the "foreign aid" that is given away by the USG is theft of the American people and it is all wrong. The trillions given away to the political state of Israel is no exception and it is NOT sanctified by a belief they are "God's chosen people". God's chosen people have ALWAYS been those who believed in God's Word and the promise of the coming Messiah and today is NO DIFFERENT. By Biblical definition, God's chosen people are all - past, present and future - who are part of the body of Christ. All others, including "Jews", are unbelievers in need of the saving grace of Christ.
He is the same. All Christian traditions teach this. God the Father is the same.
I believe in one God, Father Almighty, Creator of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.
And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all ages; Light of Light, true God of true God, begotten, not created, of one essence with the Father through Whom all things were made. Who for us men and for our salvation came down from heaven and was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary and became man. He was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate, and suffered and was buried; And He rose on the third day, according to the Scriptures. He ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father; And He will come again with glory to judge the living and dead. His kingdom shall have no end.
And in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the Creator of life, Who proceeds from the Father, Who together with the Father and the Son is worshipped and glorified, Who spoke through the prophets.
In one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church.
I confess one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
I look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the age to come. Amen. 🙏
"The Second Vatican Council taught that “the Jewish authorities and those who followed their lead pressed for the death of Christ; still, what happened in his passion cannot be charged against all the Jews, without distinction, then alive, nor against the Jews of today”
I was actually being sarcastic. Days like today are why I don't comment very frequently. My comment was mild in the extreme and some of you guys are not very nice... Turning off replies now! Have great day!
A big part of this argument seems to be a conflation between "ancient Judaism", being the background and origin of Jesus' life and teachings, versus "modern Judaism", being a rejection of Jesus' life and teachings.
There was no "Judaism" back at the height of the Israeli republic and then the Kingdom of Israel. There was only the Biblical faith and practice as given to them by God: faith in God's Word and the promise of the coming Messiah. This was practiced by all of the 12 tribes of Israel. After King Solomon died nearly a thousand years before Jesus, the kingdom split into two kingdoms. The northern kingdom was composed of 10 tribes and the southern kingdom was dominated by the tribe of Judah. About 200 years later, the 10 tribes of the northern kingdom were taken into captivity and relocated by Assyria. Apparently, the southern kingdom of Judah allied with Assyria against their brothers. This would be about 700 years before Jesus.
By the time Jesus was born, the religious establishment of Judah had fallen into apostasy, what is still called today as Judaism. Jesus' triumphal entry into Jerusalem which was the coming of the King to his own (Matt 21:5) demonstrated that Jesus was very popular with the people and as such was a threat to the religious establishment. From that point forward, the tenor of Jesus' ministry changed and immediately He began acting as the King, cleansing the Temple, prophesying His death and the judgement of God in the parable of the vinedressers and other parables, taking the Pharisees and the religious establishment to task for their apostasy and warning the people of the judgement of God that will be visited upon them with the destruction of the Temple and all of Jerusalem.
His triumphal entry into Jerusalem clearly demonstrated the extent of His popularity with the people and therefore the threat He represented to the authority of the religious establishment. His ministry and teachings made the apostasy of the Sanhedrin and the religious establishment very clear as contrasted with Jesus' words. Clearly, He was an existential threat to them and He had to be killed.
So you can appreciate the reaction of the High Priest to Jesus' statement in Matt 26:64.
When they arrested Him and took Him before Pilate, the Sanhedrin organized a crowd to demand from Pilate the death penalty for Jesus. So they took Him to Pilate and the only response Jesus would give to him was "It is as you say" when Pilate asked Him if he was "the King of the Jews".
Jesus clearly exposed the apostasy of the religious leaders of His day and this is the same Judaism practiced today based on the Talmud. What we are seeing today in the American church is a conflation of Judaism and Christianity. As such, this is once again a corruption of the Biblical faith. This "Judeo-Christian" concept has been so repeatedly programmed into the thinking of Christians today that it is very difficult to even talk about these concepts with anyone.
I daresay most people would understand "Judaism" to describe the religion of the Jews tracing back to Moses, and merely qualify it as "apostate Judaism" to describe the part of Israel that rejected their King. Arguing over whether it's "not really Judaism at all" mostly results in debates over names rather than substance.
I agree that the term "Judeo-Christian" can imply there is minimal distinction between Rabbinic Judaism and Christianity, which is false. But reacting too far in the other direction risks sending the message that Christianity is a new and unrelated thing to the revelation of the Old Testament, which is also false. Jesus remains the King of the Jews, regardless of whether present-day Jews accept him.
Agree for the most part. This is where precision of language becomes important. I disagree that Biblical faith depends in any way on Judaism. Christianity is clearly the belief in the entire Word of God and needs no endorsement from apostate faiths. No one disputes that or believes that Christianity is some novel invention bereft of 2,000 years of history. What you are actually implying is that Judaism is somehow still a valid Biblical OT faith. Judaism does not represent the faith of Moses, David or the OT prophets. In fact, the Prophets warned against the apostasy and foretold of the Messiah's rejection by His own and the resulting Judgement to come upon Jerusalem. The Biblical faith has no truck with Judaism. What common ground does the truth have with a lie or light with darkness?
When Jesus made his triumphal entry into Jerusalem as King of the Jews, the people recognized and received Him with great joy. The religious establishment recognized that their apostasy was being exposed by Him and plotted to kill him. Jesus even affirmed this when Pilate asked Him if he was King of the Jews. In His ministry, Jesus made it clear on multiple occasions that the religious Judaic establishment was an abomination before God and that they would be gathered up and burned. Those Jews who accepted and believed in Him were the true Israel and the true Jews. The rest were apostates. Those who followed Him are the ones we later call Christians. They were the believing Jews who kept the faith of their fathers in the Word of God.
After His death and resurrection, Jesus ascended to glory to sit on the throne at the right hand of the Father to rule and reign in history no longer as King of the Jews but as King of kings and Lord of lords as the covenant was made new in His blood and expanded to include all peoples, the true Israel of the New Covenant. And He poured out the Holy Spirit to indwell and empower all believers as His body on earth and commissioned them to now carry the Gospel of His kingdom to the whole world.
The husk of apostate Judaism was left in ruins by the judgement of God when the Temple was destroyed and Jerusalem left in ruins (Luke 21:20-22). The infiltration of "Judeo-Christian" theology is a lie of Satan used to distract and lead today's Church astray. God's chosen people are all believers in Christ, Jews and Gentiles alike. The Messiah came to the Jews first according to God's promise and gathered His elect out from the apostate establishment which was then left to burn. For the American church to invest some kind of sanctified legitimacy to the modern political state of Israel just due to the name and location is unBiblical and an affront to Christ.
Well, again.. we're at the disagreement over whether the Old Testament is validly described as "judaism" or not. I certainly agree that the Judaism of today is not the same as the "judaism"/"not-judaism-at-all" of Moses, David, et al. Anyone who suggests that God will save anyone via the means of "Judaism" apart from Christ is dangerously mistaken.
I just think that most people would understand the Old Covenant history to fall within the term "judaism", and therefore the phrase "Christianity is not dependent on Judaism" to be a rejection of God's work prior to the Incarnation. Which I know is not your intention; just a concern about the risk of miscommunication.
To be precise, Judaism did not exist in Moses' or David's day so I think that is misleading to a lot of people who aren't acquainted with the history. Judaism arose as an errant theology in Judah long after David and Solomon's day.
Maybe you should quote me. Jesus is the second person of the Trinity - Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Jesus is the Messiah and the incarnate Word of God.
Christianity is built upon the Jewish religion. They can hate it because it adds to their beliefs, doesn’t change that we are forever entwined. Maybe if The Church hadn’t tried to kill them for a thousand years or so, they would be more hospitable. Our Savior is one of them, we can’t get around that fact.
Those who bless will be blessed. Those who curse will be cursed. If you don’t believe the Scriptures, just look around.
George Washington sent a letter to a Jew , Haym Salomon, saying that he had run out of money to pay the troops and many didn’t even have shoes and it was winter. Mr Salomon gave all he had, ending up dying a pauper.
The Law, the ‘Instructions’ given to Moses are all over DC buildings.
There were even discussions of having Hebrew as our language, so that citizens could read the texts in the original language.
There used to be debates at Harvard in Hebrew, Latin and English……about the Word of God.
So yes, we were established as a Judeo -Christian nation. (The first Christians were Jews. And they continued to keep Sabbath and the Biblical Holy Days (the days the ‘church’ keeps are not Biblical nor are they holy.).
We can recognize that God revealed himself to the Israelites, and chose them to bring our Savior to the world. But we are Christians, we follow Christ not some hyphenated, watered down hybrid. And as BFM notes, it's a made up term with no historical usage in the church.
On top of that, modern Judaism is Talmudic-based (aka Pharisee Judaism). The Talmud was compiled centuries after Christ, is highly legalistic, is a works based salvation, and the antithesis of the New Covenant. Read what Christ says to the Pharisees in the Gospels, it's not the touchy-feel Jesus we were taught about in Sunday School, He read them the riot act. People act as if Judaism is just Christianity without the NT which isn't the case. The Jews aren't our "spiritual big brothers" as people try to portray them, but a group that willingly rejected Christ. They went on to deviate even further from Christ's message over the centuries as the Tulmud became far more influential than the OT itself.
We can and should be respectful to Jewish people and treat them with dignity and respect (as the Bible commands us to do with all people). But that doesn't mean that we need to debase ourselves and pretend we are all part of one big spiritual blob. We follow Christ, and He told us that He came to divide. People don't like to hear it, but it's what the Bible says.
I was not talking about ‘modern’ Judaism. I was not talking about the Sadducee’s or the Pharisee’s. I was speaking of the followers of Yeshua, in the NT, who indeed followed TORAH. Not the Talmud. They only followed “It is written’. The only ‘written’ Word they had was Torah.
Even Paul said he was a Pharisee, and many Pharisee’s believed in Yeshua. Yeshua followed the Torah so that we would know it could be done.
The Rabbi’s made up their own ‘laws’, and THOSE laws were impossible to keep.
Torah, as Yeshua and the early ecclesia showed us it IS possible.
Messiah said HIMSELF that He did not come to destroy the Law.
Those who deny that He said that simply do not WANT to follow His Instructions.
They want to do “what is right in their own eyes”.
What are you talking about? I was replying to BFM and his comments regarding "Judeo-Christianity" and that is was a made up term and frankly an oxymoron. He is exactly right.
I don't know what you think you are arguing as it's muddled with a bunch of out of context references, but I'm guessing that you are saying that Christianity is an offshoot of Judaism. That's completely wrong, it's the fulfillment of Judaism. There was no need for Judaism after this and predictably it went completely off the rails with absurdly legalistic Talmudism.
Christ said he did not come to destroy the law *but to fulfill it* (you left off the most important part). The law showed us our hopeless depravity and that we are lost without Christ. The law pointed us to Christ, He is our new high priest. His vicarious atonement fulfilled the law and our salvation is through Him as we could never earn our own salvation (as the law makes clear). We cannot possibly comply with the law as written in the OT, that's the point. It's not just rabbi interpretations but the very law itself. We do our best but we will always fall short of the glory of God (as Paul stated). Tulmudism made it infinitely worse.
Paul's references to being a Pharisee were historical and comparative, he wasn't claiming to still be a practicing Pharisee. The points I make about the law above were written by him over and over. He primarily developed this theology (under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit). It's the bedrock of Christianity.
Please read the book of Hebrews *in total and in context* as this is very clear spelled out. You can't cherry pick a couple of passages and claim the apostles were Judeo-Christians, it's nonsense. They were ethnic Jews who fully committed their lives to Christ, Paul even had to rebuke Peter on this very subject.
Well put. Even “ Christian” is a made up label that came from Rome to address Christ followers that increased after Christ had risen. We all will die alone and each person must deal with their own mortality and afterlife individually. Labels mean nothing.
BFM- excellent! Let’s start a movement to trash that squishy term Judeo-Christian. This is a linguistic tool to confuse thought and philosophy. You’re either one or the other and a hyphenated combination does nothing to advance clarity.
It is an accurate term in the context of Romans where Paul speaks about us being grafted into the roots of the original tree which was Hebrew/Jewish. Semantics confuse sometimes, when different people ascribe different definitions to the same words... It's hard to say what Judeo, Jewish, Hebrew, semetic, etc all mean without allowing for the original historical setting of the Bible, old and new testaments. To me,Judeo-Christian means that it started out Jewish and became Christian with the life of Jesus and the apostle. Christian was a term first used in Antioch in the time of Paul (formerly Saul) the apostle. (Acts 11:26) It has been used and misused incorrectly ever since, but Paul also made it clear in Romans that we non-Jews have been grafted in and if the Jews accept Jesus they can easily be grafted back in to Jesus, the Vine, of which we believers are branches that can be pruned, grafted in, removed and tossed into the fire, based on OUR own choices to be in Him or not.
Some colonies primarily Protestant, Catholic, or Enlightenment-Deist-(masters-slaves), then a Nation and Constitution of this blend. The Judeo part can be argued obliquely, so can Greco-Roman.
All right, I'll bite. The 10 commandments thing used to really get under my skin because the athiests and whomever never had any room for compromise and could care less what you thought when they were out destroying the moral side of life. Just like the abortion issue, it was all or nothing. Well now I feel that, it's tit for tat. They've been spitting their vile crap at us for years now and we've just let it happen. It's great to see some conservatives have some cahones to show what real law is about. And if you follow the 10 commandments, your life will turn out pretty good. Teach THAT to kids!!!
You’re on the right track. I’m there too. Doing nothing invites them to dominate and destroy every fabric of family and decency. We just want to be left alone to live our lives but they’ve forced us to fight. Local local local. Start in your own town.
"Even if only to save the climate..." You hit the nail on the head, Jeff! Just "imagine" (as JL might say) if all the global warming-climate changing freaking out Gretas, Al Gores, Leo DiCaprios, Robert Redfords out there were to say with one voice, "Stop the war right now, you're ruining the climate!"
After all, what's really more important to them...saving Ukraine, or saving the Planet?
Like everything else, the environmental movement seems to have been turned upside down and inside out. It used to be that environmentalists were concerned about saving plant and animal life, the rainforests and not polluting the earth. Now they seem to embrace destroying ecosystems to install wind and solar farms and using geoengineering to block the sun and control the weather(?maybe), without any consideration of what harms these things are doing to the animals that inhabit these places, not to mention humans. At least I haven’t seen any evidence that there are”environmentalist opposing these measures. All of which is most assuredly doing more to harm the planet than carbon ever could.
Immigrants or illegal migrants? Let's not confuse words because there is nothing wrong with legal immigrants. Most of us are descendants of legal immigrants! Few of us go back to original settlers.
How do you know the difference anymore? I know a young woman who came here for university from Japan. Finished her study and was hired immediately by US company so stayed. She married an American citizen, and is still in the citizenship holding pool. Her immigration attorney blames a ruling made by Trump, but I really don't know what to make of it.
On the 10 Commandments: Did you know Moses was the first Tech Support guy? He was the first man in history to download data from the cloud to his tablet. .... :)
Concerning this : " .... this case concerns government agencies coercing social media platforms to censor Americans for misinformation ...", wouldn't it be more accurate to say " ... censor Americans for what government agencies claim to be misinformation ..."?
the mis dis and mal informers and censors were a private-public-state security conspiracy complex that itself needs to be destroyed and litigated against. Wrecking ball the cabal, or allowances and permissive excuse-making...what will the Court conclude?
Regarding the Louisiana law, Jeff makes the clear argument about it. Louisiana has that right. If there is a question of "federalness", then remove all Louisiana public schools from the Federal system.
When I was in high school, I took an advanced literature class, and one of the books on our reading list was the Bible. We discussed it as literature, with all its deep qualities. No one objected.
I am in favor of Trump abolishing the Dept. of Education. Get the damn feds out of our schools.
Another point to this is that morality will be imposed by someone. I would much rather have God’s law be made known as the basis of that morality than the disgusting perversion of sexuality, law, human relationships, and almost every other aspect of life that we see today. Christians cannot cower before the loudest clowns in society any longer. Make decency great again!
I choose a Heavenly Father over Mother Earth any day. The lefty loons who worship the god of this world, can’t stand the competition.
they can't stand being exposed to the light....that is part of the purpose of the 10 commandments? right? to get thru the thick headed stubborn narcissists just how ignroant they/we've been. Recently had small epiphany that living boundary-less, we, just like kids self destruct...before we come to know God individually we need boundaries to reign us in and provide structure so we can hear Him. Like obedience school for dogs....they start out as running around screwing every other dog, biting and fighting and distracted by every 'squirrel' that runs by nipping and barking incessantly...they need the Dog Whisperer to calm them down and teach them boundaries(the 10 commandments) so they learn to sit and listen and PAY ATTENTION (obedience). Once you get to your prefrontal cortex (your right mind) where God is you learn to prefer that place instead of the HELLSCAPE of the amygdala where old traumas and wounds and offenses and unforgiveness and imaginations rule and satan taunts.
Yes, the New Testament confirms that the 'law' is a 'tutor' to show we need the 'Spirit' of the Living God, and that shows us that we can never be good enough to save ourselves. We needed and need Jesus to save us, and for His Spirit to indwell us in order to do what is right. We will still have our fallen nature but we can be tutored by His Holy Spirit to overcome it with practice, patience and persistence. We will fall short in the process, but we can always return to Him as often as we need to, for forgiveness, cleansing, acceptance and His sacrificial love, and His wisdom and guidance.
I choose BOTH MOTHER EARTH and FATHER SKY. one is not higher than the other. this is the problem with patriarchal religion and why its' not good for women or children, nor for healthy relationships between men and women.
also why pedophilia, domestic violence and rape are still a part of our atmosphere.
The enemy has spoken, and in speaking exposed her delusion. You obviously are clueless about the requirements of the Patriarchy, perhaps because you like to gaslight instead of speak truth.
I'm going to guess you are a divorced, troubled, angry woman. Perhaps a man failed you by not behaving according to his Patriarchal requirements, perhaps you failed him with an affair or immorality of your own, or perhaps you were just gaslighted, lied to, cajoled in to believing women and children don't need men in their lives, they just need government to provide handouts - redistributed from men. Whatever the reason for your delusion, I feel sorry for you. Perhaps someday you can come back from Uranus (yes, plop your head out) and re-establish a healthy connection.
Ps I love and value the men in my life, and have excellent male friendships. but they dont share your issues.
My issues? You mean being an honest, loving, supportive man who understands the critical role a man has in the most important relationship in life? I will stand on "my issues" vs your issues anytime. Many excellent male friendships? Ha... Beta males, maybe.
LOL you are so confused and completely wrong in your many assumptions. lets just say you are not an effective spokesperson for your POV.
instead, laughable, but sad.
She is an angry feminazi.
A hater, because I understand my obligations and role in marriage, in the family, in society and she doesn't?
You are the hater.
My normal reaction to harsh language and name-calling. Trying to delete the comment, and I’ll keep trying to stick to my principles. “A gentle answer turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger” (Proverbs 15:1). Peace and love, bro.
Yeah sure peace and love...except when you are arguing a point with lunatics who have decided it is their calling to blow up a societal imperative because they got it wrong. Are you denying that Patriarchy, in its biblical form is wrong?
No sir. I just never won an argument with a woman who made me angry. Actually, I'm not sure men ever really win arguments with women. I believe Ephesians 5:21-33 is the blueprint, and Proverbs 14:1 is the flip side of a man who will or won’t follow the plan: “The wise woman builds her house, but with her own hands the foolish one tears hers down.”
yep divide and conquer is alive and well
The first deities that humankind worshiped were
female, because life springs from women not men.
The patriarchal Abrahamic religions are misogynistic and
treat women as property.
Woman don't need men to fertilize their eggs?
Vonu, did you read what Jeff wrote about our Christian founders? Tell him all about Thomas Paine. Maybe you'll change his mind.
And Thomas Jefferson and John Adams.
The John Adams that locked up hundreds of his critics for Jefferson to pardon?
Yep--there are many 'sperm donors' that would support that fact! Some of them even become PARENTS!!
As do many same sex partners, against all biological odds.
off the wall comment
Wasn't really for public consumption. Just part of a long-running sidebar debate with my friend Vonu.
Do you hang all your comments on the wall?
exactly . but the lost and confused among us continue to revile women and the Source of Life.
well hie thee off into the heavens then, cause mother earth is who sustains you here.
"Mother earth" is not a WHO; it's a WHAT.....created by a WHO. A WHO who sustains ALL of us here, in spite of any and all rejection.
ha. BS.
No, sorry, Austin is right. You may never figure it out. That's not our problem, it is yours.
sadly, it is YOUR problem and it is what separates you from the female Divinity in your life, and contributes to the Divide and Conquer you are so busy perpetuating.
LOL, project much.
Im sure you can look within and track the problems in your relationships to your attitiudes.
there. doesnt feel so good getting your own medicine, does it ;)
When you are in a dangerous situation, do you call for help from your female‘Divinity’? Or one of her human representatives?
My guess is, no , you call for, “some muscle over here”, in that memorable moment from a few summer mostly peaceful protests age.
I suspect that any men in your life are just soy boys by any objective standard.
I cherish women, at least those who understand the critical roles of men and women and seek to build upon them a loving, happy, forever relationship.
You, being indoctrinated to destroy this beautiful relationship, can't possibly understand it. A good book for you to try and turn it all around, "The Five Love Languages" by Gary Chapman.
absolutely true and those who dont get it are hardly worth talking to.
Ha. BS.
“In the beginning was nothing, which exploded, and became everything”
And now certain leaders of certain countries want to again explode so we can become nothing.
Isn't it interesting how humanity affixes "parental designations" on "the earth" and "time" (as in MOTHER earth and FATHER time). "I know Whom I have believed and am persuaded that he is able...to keep that which I've committed...unto Him against that day"...so says the tried and true 'old hymn of the faith'!
I don’t blame the earth for anything. She’s an innocent victim! Humans who have turned away from their creator are the problem. I don’t like to hear the Earth linked with them!
What makes you think earth is a “she?”
That foolish man Richard Dawkins claimed that God was unnecessary because we already have morality. Too stupid to realize where that sense of morality comes from. The ignorance of the "intellectual"!
"Do not deceive yourselves. If any of you think you are wise by the standards of this age, you should become “fools” so that you may become wise."
1 Corinthians 3:18 NIV
Humans evolved in small cooperative groups.
Having morals is an evolutionary trait that helps ensure survival.
Morality predates religion.
But if I happen to lack morals, and that happens to benefit my survival at the expense of those who have scruples, then THAT is an evolutionary trait that helped ensure survival.
An evolutionary origin without a deity gives no grounding for WHY one set of morals is better than another, other than "it probably helped us survive in the past so maybe if we stick to it, we'll continue to survive better, assuming the environment hasn't changed much".
Have you read Jared Diamond’s “Guns, Germs and Steel”?
Yes, and Collapse.
Agreed. Without the trait of empathy, “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you” would make no sense.
He's been backtracking on that lately tho
Given the wealth of defective morals awash in the world, perhaps there is no quality control in heaven.
There is enough love in heaven for those like yourself that to allow you to continue in your ways, giving you every opportunity to turn.
I was very much like you up to my late thirties. Mocking the Bible and those foolish Christians that believed it. Praise to God in heaven for his mercy on me and his grace! The best thing I could possibly hope for you and those like you is that you would see the same light at some point in your life.
It takes a "Holy Spirit"' intervention in our lives to acknowledge our sinful nature and turn AWAY from the "old life" and turn TOWARD eternal life through faith in the finished work and resurrection from the tomb of Jesus Christ the Lord and Creator of heavenly and earthly realms. GLORY AND OUR DEVOTION GOES ONLY TO YESHUA, JEHOVAH JIREH'S ONLY BEGOTTEN SON.
They must have a really good ISP in heaven.
Now you're a mocker. An older, wiser Bob Dylan says, “you're gonna have to serve somebody.” Joshua says in 24:15, “if serving the Lord seems undesirable to you, then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve.” Who does your ISP tell you to serve, Vonu?
I have never had or needed an ISP.
Now you're getting spooky. How do you access Substack?
I use a laptop on free public wifis.
This one single post explains everything about the mooch that is the entity "vonu".
HAHAHAHAHA i mostly read this site gleaning laugh out loud.
Hopefully, you glean some serious nuggets, as well. This site is awash in them.
“Like the crackling of thorns under the pot, so is the laughter of fools” (Ecclesiastes 7:6).
I think you simply realize the truth you find here, and are compelled to return again and again, keep at it! You will eventually understand and grow.
I agree. The counter revolution which Jeff likes to speak about, and which I agree with him, REQUIRES Americans to reassert our roots to our Judeo-Christian principles which enabled us to be a great country, always able to stand on the moral high ground, even when we were gaslighted into believing we weren't. As we can see, the removal of the 10 Commandments is a hill the unhinged, un-boundaried, inhumane, immoral liberals (and their cohort of rinos) are more than willing to fight and die for. They have spent decades destroying what made this country great because their goal has ALWAYS been to destroy the USA and rebuild another marxist failed state with their boots on our necks. Now that we've decided to fight a counter-revolution - so far without kinetic means - we need to stick to our guns (so to speak) and not shy from the fight. It truly is a battle of good vs evil and there is absolutely nothing evil in the 10 C - unless you are evil. Steady yourselves and don't give ground - to the individuals who say this is not the fight we should, they are wrong - it is precisely the fight. Its taken the evil ones decades to get us to the situation where we are, it is not going to get restored over night.
This! ☝️☝️ Well said Daniel! I Cor 16:13
Nice! "Be on your guard; stand firm in the faith; be courageous; be strong."
God's law can only be imposed in the heart of all believers, individually.
“For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them,”
Romans 2:14-15 NASB1995
God writes the law on every person’s heart. The power to obey it can only come from God through faith in His Son, Jesus the Christ. By bringing God’s law and the Gospel to society we help people become aware of how they should live according to their Maker’s design.
Morality will be imposed on society as a whole. My argument is that the basis of that morality should be God’s law.
Morality needs a basis?
Only if you want it to be non-arbitrary.
Why would it need to not be arbitrary with the variety on offer?
Most people are uncomfortable with arbitrary morality. If morals are arbitrary, who decides which ones apply - just whoever has the power to impose them?
Most people are uncomfortable with any level of reasoning beyond deciding what is for dinner.
Who decides whether eating pork for dinner is immoral?
Or eating puppies?
Or human babies?
Is it really arbitrary?
(Deuteronomy 30: 6, RSV) "And the Lord your God will circumcise your heart, and the heart of your offspring, so that you will love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, so that you may live."
Eight words the Wiccan Rede fulfill: An ye harm none, do what ye will.
Yeah! And there is always a conflict of interest between 'ye harm none' and a lawless 'do what ye will'. That conflict is ruination.
Right? If men were angels, we could all be Wiccan.
This turn of phrase made me smile.
You'd think "vonu" would get tired of the continuing destruction of his charades. Except that his delusion prevents it.
Vonu thinks he or she or it, or they or them whatever, is an educated twit ... and a real intellectual powerhouse. Such, of course, always think they are God's gift to human kind and exist solely to teach us a thing or two
People today are trapped in their dumbed down mis-educations. And most think they are smarter than they really are. Just look what comes out of the mouths of the European and North American 'leadership' class. The West, for example, is now on the fourteen round of sanctioning. They must now think that 'they' have reached the magic number. But if they fail, there's always round fifteen or sixteen ... or round infinity. They never seem to figure it out, at least a current crop. Vonu is no different. Invincible Ignorance knows no bounds.
vonu is likely a recent "graduate" of the public, liberal indoctrination system. In this system, they tell students to believe whatever they thinks is right, good, okay, not required to back it up with historical or provable facts. That they think it, is good enough. That vonu's "truth" trumps real, provable facts. That truth doesn't have to equal facts. It's really nefarious and destructive and has grown a generation of these fools.
Whatever is going on, it's pretty sloppy intellectually and not very sociable. In short, all the hallmarks of a truncated, short circuited rearing process.
The one thing the system does well is to produced dysfunctional barbarians. The do this in abundance. It is a wonder any of us have escaped out of the twisted cage they have most of us boxed up in, to some degree or another.
All truth. Wisdom is knowing when to be silent (still working on that). Wannabe intellectuals think as long as they're talking, they're relevant.
Not my will, but Thine, is what Jesus prayed in Gethsemane, to His Father, and what he taught us to pray.
Unbeliever societies who live God's law are better than those who don't but they cannot hold to that society unless they will bow to the God who created it. As history has shown.
Christianity wasn't created by God.
The Ten Commandments were written by God. A good question to ask is exactly which commandment do you not agree with? Murder? Stealing? Adultry? Honor parents? Love neighbor as yourself? Love God ?
Moses destroyed the tablets that were given to him.
Then in Exodus 34 Moses is given a new set of commandments.
According to the text, these are the 'Ten Commandments'.
God invented English?
Vonu, you are such a clever little lad. Or are you a man become a girl, or a girl become a man? A cat? A dog? A donkey? An ass?
Just what are you? The new House Troll?
At least I'm not as envious as you are.
You can do better. Even a half-wit could do better. And by the way, what kind of hook is this?
No, you are way more envious. Dave, Im going with all of the above, it just depends on the hour or the day.
LOL you'll never get thru, but thanks for trying
Indoctrination is very impenetrable.
Obviously.
A one word take down which went right over it's head.
Oxygenate before you type. God provided humanity with the ability to understand each other by first suffering the inability to understand each other (read the Tower of Babel). From that came the ability to translate and understand each other... see how that works... so yes, you could say God invented English.
Clearly you would prefer not to understand but simply make foolish comments to which other foolish people like @nancylee gravitate.
🤣
I don't need to understand anything that someone in the throws of an ad hominem attack of diarrhea spews.
LOL, brought you right to your indoctrinated knees.
The original 10 commandments were a form of 'paleo' Hebrew, wouldn't you think?
Most people have never pondered the original, not being learned enough.
And here we have the pot calling the kettle black re not being learned enough.
Well he probably did. Though Moses’ tablets were not in English.
They didn't need to be with everyone having the gift of tongues.
HAHAHA!! You’re exceptionally scattershot today, buddy! Did somebody pee in your Wheaties again this morning?
His responses remind me of BNN. Is he the same person or are they both AI? Just an academic question.
I was never very big on breakfast cereals after my mother started cooking eggs and bacon for me.
God doesn't impose His law. Free will is our God-given and inalienable right, and our choices reap the benefits and consequences. But eventually, “says the Lord, ‘every knee will bow before me; every tongue will acknowledge God’” (Romans 14:11). Even your knee and tongue, my friend.
Exactly. But He does impose "consequences" more accurately described as Judgements.
This point can't be made often enough. We have a state-sanctioned religion already being taught in schools - DEI, Woke, Climate Cult, Rainbow Ideology - call it whatever you want, but it's present and destructive and shows no signs of abating without some kind of push back. We will all be made to care about something, so I suggest we choose wisely. The progressives NEVER stop. The conservatives never seem to want to start. They will not leave us alone to simply live our lives. That ship has sailed. Welcome to the fight, happy warriors; it's time to engage.
Who says morality will be imposed by someone. That’s a canard 🦆. The Commandments are common-sense rules to live by: don’t murder, don’t steal, etc. Avoid situations where the 7 deadly sins are on display. They are hurtful to the person affected by the sin and the person committing them. Without a firm foundation, people drift wherever and we are seeing wildly imaginative and debilitating choices and affirmations. All leading to anxiety, depression and sometimes suicide.
If you can remove “religion” and “Christian denomination” from the Commandments, then you have reasonable, common-sense rules to live by.
We all crave unconditional love. When we don’t get it from parents, teachers, friends, we wither. We fill the emptiness with things (other gods). When the things no longer satisfy that hunger, anxiety and depression can occur. Unconditional love is the River of life that waters the soul. People with hearts moved by God provide that River. And then people understand the First Commandment- to love God and not “things” that don’t satisfy.
No one is imposing anything. That might be your own interpretation.
Those in power are imposing a morality on us. No jab, no job, pride everywhere, ESG, DEI, open borders, gay mirage, transing kids, the list goes on. These are all morality issue that are imposed through a variety of means. There is no total escape from the consequences of these issues, hence they are imposed on everyone without a choice. Some form of morality will be forced on society. Should it be that of unhinged communists or based on Biblical tradition?
For the last few weeks, there has been disagreement among my county commissioners and the local school board over the amount to be budgeted for public schools. Rabid supporters of public education do not like charter schools or homeschools. A couple of people posted online, "public money should go to public schools." I responded that there is no "public money," it all comes from taxpayers. The same applies to federal money. I know it is a radical concept, but the government does not have money and the money we taxpayers "donate" should not be used as a bludgeon to force perverse ideologies on our children. Get rid of the Department of Education!
Great point. I love the assumption that "public money" grows on some government tree and doesn't come from anyone in particular.
Since the Fed was created, there has been no limit to how much the government can borrow. The national debt has been increasing by a trillion dollars every 100 days or so since Biden was sworn in. The US will eventually go down like the USSR did, and the BRICS will have their revenge.
So, technically, there is money which did not come from taxpayers, but was printed with nothing to back it (as has been true for a long time). I think this country is going down, barring a miracle from God. I'll be glad when we are past November 5. I'm tired of feeling this weight of how much more horrible it can get.
Why will it be better past November 5?
It won't be better; it may be worse. It may be worse before then. I'm just tired of waiting for the black swan event, or martial law, or whatever is coming.
It won't matter since the fix is in.
I don't disagree, I'm just concerned about what the tyrants will do.
Your fixes should be in, as well.
Not sure what you mean, but my security is in place. It has been since 1976.
After reading all your indoctrinated comments on here, the US will not go down like the USSR, it will go down because people like you are foolish, indoctrinated, uneducated but still get to speak.
Now that's not very American of you... anyway, censorship as always a bad idea, no matter how "wrong" your targets are.
Beautifully well stated. Thanks Anne.
and you can add the other DOE - Dept. of Energy - the states will do a much better job - and come to think of it there are probably a lot of others that should be eliminated or dramatically scaled down - time to follow the constitution and get the feds out of what they have no right to be doing
Follow Milei in Argentina — eliminated 50% of ministries and 49% of secretariats. All government (citizen and tax) funded.
The Constitution is the reason why we have the current mess.
The Constitution is why we have the United States.
“But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist.”
-- Lysander Spooner
"Unfit to exist" is maybe a little extra, but it ain't wrong otherwise.
The Constitution was a coup on the Articles of Confederation which created the United States of America.
Wow, lol. What failed school of indoctrination did you attend?
Wrong. The deviation from the constitution as it was written is where the government has landed. We the people and our country are in the mess we are in because we have not followed God's rules. And have not repented and each of us changed our ways.
God's rules must have been as poorly drafted as mans'.
No, God gave troubled individuals like you the ability to make your choices, just because you have made the wrong ones and now regret it, only means you decided to make the wrong choices.
It important to take the Sabath off
and not wear cotton/polyester blends.
It *is* important to take a day off - every heard of "burnout"? The Sabbath was made for the benefit of mankind, as Jesus put it.
The "mixed cloth" is a bit more abstract that doesn't translate well in our culture, but it's to show the importance of being "pure" by visibly separating yourself from evil. It doesn't literally apply unless you're an ancient hebrew... in which case can I borrow your time machine?
Spoken like a true tyrannical marxist, indoctrinated instead of educated. The Constitution is why you can spew your nonsense on here foolish child.
Not following the original organic constitutions is why we have this mess.
The first organic document for the country was the Articles of Confederation, where it got its name. The Articles didn't let the oligarchs do what they wanted to, so they wrote a constitution so powerful that they couldn't control it and everyone else got thrown under the bus they are still luxuriating on.
Dave - I’m enjoying many of your comments. Keep it up! 👍
The problem is fed money 😏
And it is used to control us 😧
because we are victims and totally incapable of following thru with integrity, because think of the consequences!!
Which federal system are you talking about?
Ronald Reagan promised to abolish the Department of Education and did so by tripling its budget.
How about we start with a number. Let’s say 100,000 federal employees. Then put which agencies get trimmed or shut down to a vote of the American people. It will be easy.
I don’t have that power. Are you part of this planet?
He is miserable. And he wants the whole world to be miserable.
What are you waiting for?
LOL
I so agree with your final sentence. In my first teaching job, high school English, fall of 1974, I had my students read passages from the Bible. At that time it was taken to be fully acceptable in the public school. Fast forward to the last ten years, when I was teaching Latin in middle school, had a poster of the Lord's Prayer in Latin, but did not dare to mount it on the wall.
And, if you get past revisionist history, one of the first “text books” used in education was the Bible.
Massachusetts is responsible for the education being public in America: the Old Deluder Act of 1647—says this native BayStater whose forebears profitted greatly from said law:
“It being one chief project of that old deluder, Satan, to keep men from the knowledge of the Scriptures, as in former times by keeping them in an unknown tongue, so in these latter times by persuading from the use of tongues, that so that at least the true sense and meaning of the original might be clouded and corrupted with false glosses of saint-seeming deceivers; and to the end that learning may not be buried in the grave of our forefathers, in church and commonwealth, the Lord assisting our endeavors.
It is therefore ordered that every township in this jurisdiction, after the Lord hath increased them to fifty households shall forthwith appoint one within their town to teach all such children as shall resort to him to write and read, whose wages shall be paid either by the parents or masters of such children, or by the inhabitants in general, by way of supply, as the major part of those that order the prudentials of the town shall appoint; provided those that send their children be not oppressed by paying much more than they can have them taught for in other towns.”
Children does not mean boys only. Hence the strong history of well-educated females in Massachusetts.
The best part of my high school English experience was Shakespeare
My mother conjugated Latin as her savant.
My students used to ask to do more conjugating—I thought that terrifically weird, as I had not enjoyed the practice—but they really enjoyed declining and conjugating. Individual marker boards were possibly in some wise responsible for this weirdness.
Yes! before gov regulations schools were local and not so bad at that but then kids used to have more home work experience and less culture. Poor things. Poor things. Gov can fix that!
And the number of rural ppl who still love their local public school rivalries and indoctrinations is... Is... So... So... Ignorant!
Important in Reagan's campaign promises was abolition of the Federal Department of Education. Once sworn in, he appointed a new Secretary of Education who promised the Senate he was not going to abolish the Department of Education. And things continued downhill from there.
How about, on 22 January 2025, we do away with all phone service in the DoE building. (DoD, CIA, NSA, FBI, and many others know how to do it.) We could hit the other DoE on the 23rd. Another useful innovation would be to abolish air conditioning in all US Federal Buildings everywhere.
absolutely. There is NO separation of Church and state. When the US was formed a few states had official state churches. THe US federal constitution was intended to prevent the fed gov from INTERFERING with already established state churches. If the State of NJ wanted to by voting it could establish an official state church and fed gov technically would be powerless to intervene. If a local school board voted to allow 10 commandments in the local school. THen its OK. Local control supercedes all else.
This gets to a discussion on sovereignty, usurpation of sovereignty, theft of government from the people ... and on and on. This is a discussion that needs to happen but won't because the political fronts ('elected' political class) won't do it because their Masters won't let them. Instead of honest discussion based upon historical truth, we ill be served up new Narrative Gravy. Even Narrative Replacement Theory in the reconstructing of the now broken system.
Get the damn feds out of every aspect of our lives!
Agree! Local, local, local! Did anyone see the not.in.the.least surprising plan to have the government oversee homeschooling?
then remove all Louisiana public schools from the Federal system. and all those sweet sweet federal school dollars. you bet.
Really can't say it better than Auron MacIntyre:
https://x.com/AuronMacintyre/status/1804182612488994944?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet
All government should get out of the education business, not just federal.
Seeing Im Christian, a Roman Catholic, I was taught the Ten Commandments so I see no problem with them being put in schools in Louisiana. We have a huge demon problem right now starting with the pope, we have to bring God back or we will lose our nations and our souls, thats all Im going to say on that. Have a blessed day C&C peeps.
The Ten Commandments are basic common decency. They could be written in modern language and most would not know its origin.
Following them, reduces pain and destruction in every part of a person’s life and in society. It makes no difference that it’s historically connected to a religion. It’s common sense.
Exactly. And ‘Law’ is not a good interpretation. They are ‘instructions’ for a happy, peaceful, blessed life.
Indeed!
One example: Marital and sexual fidelity equals no stds, no (most) infertility, no unwelcome pregnancies, no emotional pain.
God gave us rules to live by out of love for us; ways to live in harmony in society, and spiritually with God.
Sin is real, not relative.
Sin in Greek means being ' off the mark'.
Modern western man disobeysthe first Commandment about loving God.
Modern western man is like a rebellious child and God is the party pooper to his fun.
However, when you break one or two Commandments to have your fun, the others will inevitably follow.
Then are we to also accept stealing and murdering in our societies?
Where will it end?
Haimartia. And Jesus claims, 'My yoke is easy, and my burden is light"--it seems to me that the 10 Commandments are not very difficult to follow. Though I confess to real fault, personally, with the fourth.
It is the positive Instructions we all have a problem following. The negative ones, for most of mankind, seem easy.
It was not until we started ‘guarding the Sabbath’ (which is how it is in the original Hebrew), that we realized how hard the positive ‘commands’ are the hardest to keep. But there are great rewards for doing so.
Your term 'guarding the Sabbath" led me to investigation, and finding a YouTube "Homeschooling Torah", a Messianic group. Had to watch without sound, tomorrow can turn on sound. Thanks again.
Having been raised in an every-Sunday megachurch, I struggle with #4 now too. At the same time, I'm finding real growth among two or three gathered in His name at all kinds of times and places.
Oh Reasonable Horses—thank you! Except for most Sundays in summers, I was in church with parents or husband all of my life—until 9 years ago, when PCUSA was going, going going-er woke. Meant to return, have not. In these last years I’ve experienced 3 very unusual (for a woman of my age) and unpleasant and long-lasting sheddings (as I believe they are, since I had been in the company of known jabbees before each event). So I avoid the company of anyone whom I do not know to be un-jabbed. This too shall pass, I tell myself. Your last sentence expresses my own experience. You might see Max Wang’s post on “why I don’t go to church any more”
Recognizing the value of the Ten Commandments brings us back to affirming the importance of morals in society. Do they even teach morals anymore? I'm sure they will in Louisiana now.
Do they know what the word means?
What I see at work with this generation is that morality is defined by each individual and there is not a moral baseline. They even have a problem with the word in legal contracts. For example, a lease said the leassor could not commit crime or immoral acts on the property and one of the employees had a problem with that word.
Isn’t it a sad state of affairs,that rules to live by would be more effective if put in modern language, as if some guy wrote them, instead of most Americans preferred deity?
They ARE in “modern language” compared to how they would have been written on the stone tablet.
Yea. Throw in a thou and a shall and this generation thinks its a different language. .
Read the Old Testament. God's chosen people would obey for awhile and all went well. Then they would "do evil in the sight of God" and it was hell on earth. They would repent, go back to God and God would graciously tend to them again ...a very simplified rendering. But the point is, anytime we go against the teachings of God we are going to face just what we are seeing in the culture today and It is horrible. But, our Loving Father waits for His children to turn back to Him and our land will be healed.
The children of Israel never could have obeyed every one of the 10 Commandments. They failed, just as we do today. Keeping God first helps guide us as we surrender to Him.
(Breaking one commandment breaks them all).
Hence the continual ritual of sin offering. Slaughtering animals all day long every day (though I suppose not on the Sabbath). Rendered unnecessary by the one, great, final sin offering.
So. Did He lie when He said “My yoke is easy and my burden is light”?
He came to show us they could be done.
The truth is, man CHOOSES to not keep the Big Ten. It’s always a choice.
Almost all contracts include severability!
:-)
That’s cause for tremendous and justified optimism, Deb. On my mind for a year now: “If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land” (2 Chronicles 7:14). I'm counting on that with you.
AMEN! I truly believe that we as Christ followers must stay alert, involved, and hopeful.
gotta love a peaceful loving god who creates hell on earth.
God did that??
No
Humankind did that.
You and I did that.
God gave people like you free will, to create hell on earth... that we now have hell on earth is your blame, not God's.
HE did not create "hell" on earth. We did.
The people created it not their God.
As a fellow Roman Catholic, I agree with all of what you said. Including the issues with the Pope.
We must remember, this "pope' was infiltrated by the chinese communist party over decades and with much money. The chinese play the long game.
I agree with you, Hannahlehigh.
And, it’s heating up so much more. Will we see the Traditional Latin Mass banned? Will we go underground to worship? Vigano is now an even bigger target.
Lord have mercy.
As a humorous or sad aside, did you see the photo of Biden deliberately forehead bopping the Pope? 🙄
He was warning the Pope not to excommunicate him or he would sic the CIA or the Justice Department on him. That's my story, anyway.
I think Joe whispered to the Pope, "I've got F16s and an IC that can get you 20 ways from Sunday."
I was wondering if that's considered kinda sacrilegious in the Catholic faith. It certainly is disrespectful, no matter who is the recipient.
Totally disrespectful, wierd, inappropriate..unless he was hoping for a Vulcan mind meld! (star trek humor)
I saw the video and it was literally a 1 second head touch. My impression was JB was leaning in close and got a little off balance for a second. His condition warrants that. Anyway, the photo was just that 1 second and there was no head touch lingering or anything. I seriously think the man can barely stand, so leaning in close is a challenge. But yea. Still pretty creepy.
Yes, and I cringed.
Feel free to join the protestants, we won't tell you what kind of ceremonies you can or cannot have in your worship. :P
More seriously, if you become convinced that the current Pope is not ok, there are always options like the Old Catholics. God does not want his people to remain in service of a false leader.
❤️
We have some noteworthy leaders, in the hierarchy, who are speaking out against this Pope. As for us, in the trenches, we will stand up for the Magisterium of the Church and not be forced to flee by infiltrated evil. Traditional Latin Mass attendees are being persecuted but we will not give up the Mass of the Ages, even if forced underground or martyred.
Agree.
He's not the first demonic Pope.
This has happened with men of the cloth and leadership throughout history and in all Christian traditions. . He is a head Bishop, that's all. He is not God. A Pope, a Patriarch, a Priest, a Bishop, a Pastor, Vicar, Archbishop, etc...are all men. Thus, like us all, they can be led astray by the evil one.
Others are not, and they can become great saints of God.
Just like each one of us, they fall.
The holy know to get up and try again.
As a former Catholic, we were taught the pope is infallible. That, among other teachings of that institution, just did not gel with my growing faith in Jesus alone.
Exactly. “We must obey God rather than human beings” (Acts 5:29).
What else but a cult can a demonic Pope create?
He did not create the church. Lol.
He is merely a Head Bishop of the structural organization of the Church.
He is a human being prone to error just like any one else.
A substantial percentage of Christendom regards Roman Catholicism as a cult.
The Pope's protection of pederast priests seems to support that premise.
The look on the "Pope's"* face was priceless. Seemed to be thinking "Stop touching me you freak."
*Francis is not Pope - he's a heretic, and therefore ceased to be Catholic.
He isn't worse than the Medici Popes.
Oh yes he is. The Medici popes maybe been murderers and men of evil motives, but they never taught heresy.
So the church is leaderless?
Christ is the true head of the true church. Catch up, Vonu.
All churches are manmade like the religions they claim to practice.
Some people make a building and call it a church. Many of those people at least try to practice religion, but sinners keep showing up.
If it weren't for hypocrites, we'd all be sinners.
rudderless. and a cult. or not a cult. but loving and if you dont do what i say its hell on earth. but loving. and if you disagree we'll fight you to the last one standing. but loving. and merciful.
Nancy, you're a piece of work!
It is anything but singular.
A substantial portion of the population thinks "love is love." Or so we are told. Most likely a substantial portion is too intimidated to say what they really think. Aggressive attacks by adherents will do that.
Apparently you personally think Roman Catholicism is "a cult" and you're using a supposed "substantial portion of the population" to validate your hostility. "Everyone believes this" worked so well with Covid, why not use it with attacking the Church?
Interesting… I am Catholic and have never had a person tell me that I belong to a cult. It is people like you that spread the hate.
I have a family member that is Catholic -converted. We are not. We are Protestants. While I have seen good growth in that persons relationship with the Lord via the Catholic Church we also have some heavy concerns that seem cult like from this, but wouldn’t call it a cult. There seems to be a heavy leaning on the Catholic Church being the only one who can interpret scripture correctly. If another person including ourselves (having been to Bible school to learn all things biblical) or a Pastor with Bible training reads scripture and interprets its meaning to ourselves THAT is frowned upon because the catechism didn’t say it. Meaning if there is a discrepancy only the Catholic Church interpretation is correct. That sounds cultish. That’s a huge red flag. The thinking that a priest can absolve sins. Huge red flag. If a priest can absolve sin what do we need Jesus for? Why does the Bible say there is only one mediator between God and man, the man Christ Jesus. No priest. Why do Catholics need to do penance for sin when Jesus already paid the price. Besides natural consequences and whatever consequences God places on someone individually via Himself, why is there this incessant need to do penance? Baffling to me. Praying to dead people. Praying to saints? Aren’t we all who believe and live for Jesus referred to as saints. Why place one above another when the Bible says we are all sinners and all need Jesus. Placing these people on pedestals seems contrary to what Gods plan and design is. He uses us all in different ways - why place some above others based on their works? Isn’t that how we ended up with “celebrities”. And Mary? I do know Catholicism does not worship Mary even though it appears that way. However, finding out the church believes Mary was sinless makes my heart sick. The Bible is CLEAR that ALL have sinned. Except Jesus. If Mary was sinless why didn’t the Bible say except Jesus and Mary? I know the Bible is silent on some things but that’s too big to leave out since it clearly states that we are ALL sinners and need Jesus. If Mary was sinless then Jesus sacrifice was for nothing. If Mary was sinless then the Bible contradicts itself and can’t be trusted. No. Somewhere along the line MAN came in and perverted the church both Protestant and Catholic.
I know I just threw a lot out there. I don’t expect you to answer all that. I think it is merely to answer your question as to why some people might see the Catholic Church as cultish. Their teaching is absolute and everyone else is wrong. Follow the leader- the pope, even though he has gone off the rails. 🤷♀️
"The thinking that a priest can absolve sins. Huge red flag."
Jesus: Thou art Peter (rock), and upon this rock I build my Church. I give to thee the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whose sins you loose on Earth will be loosed in Heaven. Whose sins you bind will be bound in Heaven. Mt. 16:18-19
But it wasn’t founded on Peter. It was found on the Truth that Peter spoke.
CStone - I replied as well to that thinking. It has always seemed flawed to me that Catholics think Peter was the first pope. 🤔 Man is flawed and sinless. It doesn’t make sense God would build His massive “church” on the back on one sinful man. He gave the keys to the kingdom of heaven to His church - those who confess Him as Lord and Savior. That’s who the power to bind and loose on heaven and earth belong to. Not one individual man who was also sinful to boot who other sinful men came behind and built a doctrine on. If the Pope is exhaled high - (another red flag as Jesus is the only ONE deserving to be lifted high and exalted the way Catholics do the Pope) how do we reconcile this current Pope who is NOT affirming the TRUTH to Gods people but compromising the truth in shameful ways? Even Catholics are sickened by this current Pope.
In my opinion, the biggest error the Roman church fell into is by assuming that there ought to be a "boss" in the church who is in charge of everyone else, thereby ignoring the teaching of Jesus that "the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, but not so with you. He who would be the greatest must become a servant."
Once you take away that misunderstanding, the entire "monarchical" structure collapses, as does the need to argue over whether or not Peter (or anyone else) was given special authority.
(Though, speaking of that, I recall Dr Gavin Ortlund made a video a little while back reviewing the early church fathers and finding that it was only a *minority* of them who believed that it was Peter himself who was the Rock in question; most held that it was either his confession, Christ himself, or all of the apostles together.)
Let's go over what Jesus said, again. Jesus (speaking directly to PETER):
"You are ROCK, and upon this ROCK I will build My Church."
He does not say "You speak the TRUTH and upon this TRUTH, I will build My Church."
Note that He has renamed Simon to ROCK in Greek, "Petros."
Note also, that He gives Peter - not the Church as a whole which doesn't get created until the Descent of the Holy Spirit - the symbol of His authority, the keys.
Note also, that He gives PETER , "this ROCK" the power to forgive sin, AND the power to withhold sin.
Yes and no..even the ancient first church honored the Bishop of ancient Rome as 'first among equals' of all the regional Bishops. (Though the 'rock' could also be interpreted as truth).
The Orthodox still accept that position as it was in church history. When the Western and Eastern branches of the Church split, the Pope became the head Bishop of what was the western part of the Church, becoming the Roman Catholic church...and that is how the Papacy evolved in the west.
In the east, there is no one central figure head, though there are regional head Bishops called Patriarchs. (Constantinople.
Moscow, etc. )
Interesting. Much like how the Protestant church was birthed on a man saying wait a minute. And read Romans. And realized there was some things not right in the Catholic teaching. (Simplifying it obviously).
It’s interesting that the family member is seeing how different diocese are run differently. And a current involvement in one has been a horrific experience with very ethically compromised leadership. It’s disheartening. Not the only diocese to have this going on. My response was….just like the Protestant denominations! Because we are ALL flawed sinful people who eventually want things done “my way” and sin creeps in and taints what was good. This Catholic convert never could understand why there were the different denominations. Didn’t make sense. That was a draw to the Catholic Church at that point. One church. They all teach the same doctrine. I actually like that personally. But “man”
always messes it up. We see it now in today’s day. Why are we arrogant to think it didn’t go on 1,000 years ago too in the Catholic Church. Catholics think that their theologians and doctrine are the only right interpretation. But, that only applies if “man” isn’t getting in the way of that. Look at all the false teachers. Again, they were present 1,000 years ago too. And so was the devil. And if we think the devil didn’t come in and twist the truth to some of those men we are pretty arrogant. Those theologians are not flawless either.
I think I’m over simplifying this but it’s hard to do justice when typing online 😂
That, and we can’t help but get a little fired up talking about our Lord and Savior. I’m blessed by your words. I agree with you and think it’s important to realize flaws in the earthly church are inevitable. Christ solved that problem by replacing the priestly class with Himself. Like 1 Timothy 2:5 tells us, “There is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus.” That's the new covenant in a nutshell, no? Ultimately, it’s between God and each individual. It’s personal. Some individuals like this or that church, and some like to gather in His name by two’s or three’s. Being anchored in His word and prayer is the only essential. It takes a lot of pressure off knowing that Christians can disagree on things that aren’t points of salvation.
“This rock” He did not say On Peter I will build my church.
He renamed Peter (a stone) but when He says “this” you have to look at the whole context of what was being said. Back up to v. 15. He asked Peter who Peter thought He was. Peter said “You are the Christ, Son of the living God”. Then Jesus replies that Peter is blessed because this was not revealed to him by flesh and blood but by “My Father in Heaven”. and on THIS rock (massive rock) I will build my church. What is THIS rock? I submit that it was not Peter, but the confession Peter made that Jesus is the Christ, Son of the Living God - the Messiah long waited for. THATs the entire basis of THE CHURCH. Not a single person but a massive collective group of people who confess Jesus as the Son of God.
Romans 10:9 “that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.”
That makes sense in full context of what Jesus said.
At the time, "Petros" meant ROCK. The meaning did not include "stone" for several hundred years.
You have to ignore the plain meaning of the Lord's perfectly clear statement to misinterpret it it to "truth."
Well, I see it the other way and think it’s pretty clear as well. I think we will have to agree to disagree and move on. And thus we have Catholic Churches and Protestant churches. And both think the other is wrong. It’s a good thing the main thing is Jesus and not a church. Receiving a church into your heart isn’t it. Receiving Christ is. So that’s what matters. Thanks for your input. I always enjoy your comments.
Having grown together for 1054 years, the Orthodox church also believes in confession.
it is an amazingly cathartic, humbling, and soul searching sacrament . The Priest absolves with the authority given him as an elder, and then he counsels, and helps the penitent.
*He* isn't absolving sin. The ancient prayers are very clear. God is! He is simply counciling as one who intercedes on behalf of the Church and his parishioners to God.
That rock being an unshakeable faith that Jesus Christ is Lord and God.
Hi Sunnydaze - you bring up many good questions/concerns that non-Catholics have. “A lot,” as you say! This isn’t the forum to respond, but I would say if you’re truly curious about those topics, you might check out “Rome Sweet Home,” by Scott Hahn. Not that you would ever convert as he did, but as a former ordained minister (Presbyterian, I think?), he answers all those questions very thoroughly. Who knows, you might enjoy it!
Like Jefferson denouncing political sects, we who know Christ must stop dividing ourselves over how many angels can dance on the head of pin and get on with making disciples. The apostle Paul put a sharp point on that: “I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and him crucified” (1 Corinthians 2:2). “There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called; one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all” (Ephesians 4:4-6). Pardon my Protestant roots, but sola scriptura, solus Christus, sola fide, sola gratia, soli Deo gloria.
Except that sola scriptura not only doesn't appear in Holy Scripture ANYWHERE (thus refuting itself), but it is EXPRESSLY refuted by St. Paul where he teaches us to hold fast to the traditions (not scripture) that were handed down to us.
Further, Scripture refutes the heresy of sola fide as well in St. James' epistle.
Neither does the Trinity appear in scripture, and I doubt you're about to reject THAT. You also need to consider that at the time Paul was writing, the New Testament had not been compiled into its present form, so all that the believers had to go on were the "teachings handed down" to them by the missionaries.
Sola Scriptura is simply an extension of that -- now that the teachings of the Apostles are recorded in writing, we are to hold fast to them and judge any later teaching by whether it lines up with apostolic teaching, as recorded in the New Testament.
Fred, I expressly refute faulty logic, and I condemn to hell misrepresentations of Scripture. If Paul told you to take a hike, you would be a fool to conclude you must never go jump in a lake. Paul had the Old Testament. Almost certainly, he had the Gospels. All are part of the Christian tradition. All are Scripture.
James is very clear about the importance of action. Galations 2:16 is very clear about the insufficiency of action: “A person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ.” James is not inconsistent with that statement. His point is that action is proof of faith.
Friend, in all modesty and humility, it is put upon me to tell you you have been deceived. I would naturally prefer to remain silent, but I know that I will stand before the throne of the Most High one day soon, and I will be judged by my works and failure of works.
Therefore I tell you that the same Peter (and his successors) whom Jesus gave His authority to bind or loose sins, have authoritatively proclaimed from the chair of Peter that is absolutely necessary to submit to the Church in order to be saved and that no one outside that Church can be saved.
Ask yourself "What did Jesus mean when He gave Peter the keys to the kingdom of heaven, and the power to bind and loose sin?"
Best wishes. May God bless and keep you.
Fred, let me demonstrate how this works. In all modesty and humility, it is put upon me to tell you you have been deceived or are trying to deceive. I would naturally prefer to remain silent, but I know that you will stand before the throne of the Most High one day soon, and you will be judged according to God’s grace. “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast” (Ephesians 2:8-9). If you hope to invalidate that statement with verse 10—"For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do”—give it your best shot. I hope you understand Scriptural proof that salvation is through grace and that accepting grace motivates Godly good works, as you reiterate with James below.
Also, please explain how edicts issued by one holy and infallible pope can be invalidated by edicts issued by a different holy and infallible pope. If the Holy Spirit of Jesus Christ is in you, you will cite specific text from Scripture for our mutual edification. I challenge you to invalidate Romans 3:22-25, which plainly vacates your claim to works-righteousness and exempts no man, not any pope, not even Peter: “Righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith.”
If you’re still of a mind that good works earn salvation, please explain the purpose of atonement. Best wishes. May God bless and redeem you.
Thank you. I accept that you are sincere but albeit wrong.
But this is what sincere believers do - we reach out to correct our wayward brothers and sisters because we’d rather offend than to watch them go to Hell.
Second, nowhere did I contend nor do I believe that salvation is obtained by good works. If you have a problem with the quotes from the apostle St. James, that's between you and him.
Third, “please explain how edicts issued by one holy and infallible pope can be invalidated by edicts issued by a different holy and infallible pope.”
They cannot. The Holy Ghost protects Peter and his valid successors from teaching error whole and unchanged (which is the only and narrow way they're infallible.) And of course, the truth cannot change - what is theologically true 1000 years ago is true today and cannot change.
But multiple councils and theologians and popes have infallibly taught that if a Pope were to spout heresy, or deviate in any way from the Deposit of the Faith, then he was not a valid Pope. Pope Paul IV, for just one example, taught that a heretic cannot become a Pope (1559), even if unanimously elected. In that case, the election was null and void.
Current canon law also states that a man who has schemed with others to gain the papacy, can never become Pope. (It has been revealed that the current “pope” Bergoglio was elected through a conspiracy of the St. Gallen mafia.)
Further, that a Pope who resigns due to coercion or threatened with harm, or due to some substantial errors, has not validly resigned.
Few people - even few Catholics - are aware that there have been 30-40 “popes” deposed or later officially recognized as anti popes.
Finally, just in case I was not clear, the so-called "Pope Francis" is NOT pope, any more than my English Labrador is Pope. And for the same ontological reason: neither Labradors nor heretics can ever become Pope.
I am sorry that you were offended, but I would be far sorrier to have not told you the truth and as a result, go to Hell. But to be perfectly honest, it is more my fear of committing sin by omission and hearing my Lord say "Depart from me, I never knew you."
I hope you never do either.
So here it is once more: there is no salvation outside of the Church established by Jesus Christ and given His authority to bind and loose (forgive or not forgive) sins at Mt. 16:18-19.
It’s unfortunate that my comments and Scriptural citations are unclear to you. I take no offense from you, nor do I have any quarrel whatsoever with James. The implications strike me as disingenuous.
I’ll take you at your word about the 30 or 40 popes who were not popes when human beings decided they were not popes. That's but one point on which you argue against your own position. Finding the current pope ambivalent on abortion and gay marriage and bizarrely certain that after 2000 years, suddenly “all religions are true,” you must acknowledge inconsistencies prove he is either not a pope, or the office of the pope is not ordained by Christ.
Back to Romans 3. “All have sinned.” That is not qualified by, “except for Mary, Peter, everybody the Roman Catholics canonize, and the pope du jour unless humans decide he is a fraud.” Based on Scripture—not Vatican I, II, III, or however many more it takes to fully politicize the fundamentals of Scripture—the Roman Catholic Church binds parishioners to doctrines Scripturally false and extraneous to Scripture. It therefore promotes heresy. See Revelation 22:18.
Obviously, not all religions are true. In John 14:6, “Jesus answered, ‘I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.’” Acts 5:29 tells us, “We must obey God rather than human beings.” Since every pope has obviously been fallible, look to the unambiguous 1 Timothy 2:5—“There is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus.” Faith in Christ is always personal and never subject to corporate decree.
I’d take you more seriously if you could accurately quote rather than merely refer to Scripture, but if you say, “Jesus Christ is God and my Lord and Savior,” you are my brother in Christ and a fellow student of The Way. But neither of us are authorities. Clearly, you are not. But 1 Timothy 2:4 tells us that on this side of Paradise, there is only “a knowledge of the truth,” not yet THE knowledge, so I leave it to you "to work out your salvation" (Philippians 2:12).
Again, best to you, and let me encourage you to read Scripture and avoid papal decrees inconsistent with Scripture. To you, the last word if you wish.
James 2:24- "Do you see that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only?"
And James 2:17 - "So faith also, if it have not works, is dead."
Yes, faith is evidenced by good works, not predicated by good works.
All amazing questions!
Sunnydaze, I think you made a number of very good points. I tend to agree with all that you said. Thank you for laying all of that out.
"If Mary was sinless then Jesus sacrifice was for nothing."
If everyone was sinless but one person, Jesus still would have come to save that one person, in my opinion.
Mary being sinless (true or not) doesn't negate Jesus coming to save the rest of us.
I get what you are saying. I do agree that He would’ve come for just one of us. However, if being sinless was attainable then we wouldn’t have needed that sacrifice Jesus made. If Mary did it, then so can someone else. The whole point all through the OT is that no one could get there. The law was given to show that. The law shows throughout the whole OT that a sinless life was unattainable. If Mary….then me too.
Jesus sacrifice was because not one person can attain being sinless. The rest of the Bible is very crystal clear on that point many times. So again, I go back to how Mary is put up on a pedestal and claimed to have been sinless? If it were attainable we wouldn’t have needed Jesus to do what He did. It was BECAUSE of that sin that He went to the cross. Mary was a virgin and Jesus was an immaculate conception. YES! That is why Mary was able to give birth to the Son of God. Not because she was sinless.
She didn't attain it on her own. Her body and soul were prepared for Christ by God and the Holy Spirit.
Well I still stand by the Bible that she was sinful just like the rest of us. Scripture in no way says or supports your thinking/what you’ve been taught that she was somehow prepared by God to be sinless. Scripture directly contradicts that teaching.
Full of grace..the Roman Catholic church believe that the Theotokos (Mother of God, as she is lovingly referred to in the Eastern church) was immaculate at conception. The Holy Mother herself revealed herself as such in an apparition to St. Bernadette.
The Eastern church. also believes that the blessed Mother of God was, "full of grace and blessed among women" (the Archangel's greeting) and we do affirm Mary's purity and preservation from sin.
We really don't differ much except that the Roman church is more legalistic in approach and codifies dogma, whereas rhe Eastern church approaches such matters of faith in a more organic manner.
AS Anthony says, it does not in any way negate Jesus coming for our salvation.
I appreciate your input here. I really do. But how does “full of grace” = sinless? Grace does not mean sinless. All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. There are numerous scriptures letting us know not one is without sin besides Jesus. How can the leaders of Catholic Church maintain that thinking that everyone but Mary?? So the “early” church supposedly passed this thinking down. How is it that the Catholic teaching is presumed flawless when it’s handed down by “man” over centuries. Dare I say, how do we know the devil himself didn’t infect the thinking of some church leaders back in the day and come up with this theology that has now been believed and written into catholic teachings? Because there is nothing in the Bible that supports such a thing that I can find. And Mary full of grace isn’t it either. One verse does not make a doctrine. It has to be taken into the whole context, the whole counsel of Gods word and nothing anywhere else that I can find in scripture supports Mary being sinless. Does she deserve reverence because of who she is? Yes. Just like Moses, Elijah, Noah, Paul, Joshua, and all the disciples. That list grows when you name every willing person who God used throughout the Bible to further His plan of Jesus coming to save us all. Put up on a pedestal and regarded as sinless therefore more holy than everyone else. Nope. I don’t see it. Jesus is the only One to be put up high and revered as the Perfect and sinless lamb of God. Not one person deserves that reverence besides Him.
I do appreciate my family member making that clear at least. Catholics don’t worship Mary. But they do give Mary a place of adoration and claim her to be sinless like Jesus. Still no. It makes no contextual sense and does not fit with Gods plan of salvation and the reason Jesus needed to come. Otherwise Mary could’ve been hung on the cross being sinless. Everything in my spirit rises up and says “NO. That is not the truth.”
SOME Catholics say they don't worship Mary but if you follow much you will see that it's not discouraged and it's easily encouraged and done.
No Catholic has ever thought orgtaught that Mary was a goddess. Not one. No Catholic believes this or teaches this.
💯
Oh I know. A leader helping teach the conversion class my family member was also helping teach said that person told the class in passing they worship Mary and this family member spoke up and said that was not true and set the record straight. I was pleased with that step but it was concerning it was said at all.
I am speaking for the Orthodox church here:
Was the Theotokos without sin?
Although we do believe the Theotokos had no actual sin, she was born, as were all the descendants of Adam, with the effect of sin upon her human nature. Yet she was brought into the temple at the young age of three, and there she led a life of prayer, fasting and study of the Scriptures.
Why do you believe that? There is not one thing in scripture to say of Mary’s history and how she was born. The Bible is silent on some issues, which is why there is so much division. Why would God allow such division? It might just be because THAT division keeps us on our knees looking to Him rather than man, for our answers. Every single thing is always about showing us our need for God. Even when talking about the church. If everything was clearly spelled out letter by letter why would we need Him? I think our present knowledge shows the capacity for “man” to think he knows it all and can do life on his own and doesn’t need God. Until reality smacks us in the face individually and it brings us to our knees. I thing God purposefully did not spell it out exactly for us…on purpose.
Where does Scripture say we should only believe what is in the Bible. (Spoiler alert - it doesn't.)
Jesus gave us one Church to rule and teach, and to guide (again, see Mt. 16:18-19.)
He did not say "Read my (future) Bible to come and figure it out for yourselves."
As to why the Church has always taught that Mary was delivered from original sin, consider the Ark of the Covenant in the New Testament. It contained manna, and the tablets of the 10 Commandments, and was meticulously designed by God who forbade anyone except his priests from touching it.
Even so, when it was being transported it started to fall, and a layman with non-consecrated hands innocently reached out to save it, and was instantly struck dead by God himself. See 2 Samuel 6:6-7
If the Ark of the Covenant was so sacred to God, how much more so was the Ark of the New Covenant, Mary whose womb was to bear the Son of God Himself.
The Orthodox Church learns about Mary's early life from the apocryphal Gospel of James, also known as the Protovangelium, which was written in the second century A.D.. This document, along with other manuscripts, provides information about Mary's parents, Joachim and Anne, and Mary's life before she became the mother of Jesus:
And how is that document verified I wonder? Gospel of James? What is that? I’m sorry but all the historical documents provided by the Catholic Church I am not familiar with and when I ask the convert (easiest way to say it) about who verified these to make doctrine that person doesn’t know.
The Gospel is simple. It’s supposed to be. To make it accessible to everyone. Even the Bush people in Alaska or Africa or some remote place not reached by others. How does the Catholic doctrine and history with all these big complicated words and books and centuries old historians that can’t be verified make the Gospel easy for anyone? And to exclude non-Catholics from partaking in communion is also a troublesome piece. Jesus told ALL of us to do this in remembrance of Me…not just Catholics who’ve gone through the churches requirements and confirmation classes. I’ve always struggled with the exclusiveness of the Catholic Church. It’s not inclusive to everyone at any time in the way Jesus said to preach the gospel to the entire world. He is accessible to everyone at any time and I don’t find anywhere where He excludes people because they didn’t join a church. All the rules don’t fit with the entirety of Jesus message and life.
However!
There are aspects of the Catholic Church that I do believe are good. I love the history and I appreciate the traditions. I appreciate the sanctity and importance they place on the mass itself. I think we Protestants treat church flippantly in ways. I think we do not revere communion as we should. There are good things within the Catholic Church and I believe it is filled with Jesus loving people with morals and ethics that speak volumes to others. But I do struggle with the notion that the goal seems to be bringing people into the church rather than bringing people to Jesus. I see this in the convert. I keep saying “why is it so important to get people to convert to Catholicism? Shouldn’t we be converting them to inviting Jesus into their hearts as their Lord and Savior? Joining the Catholic Church and going through all the classes and making sure their marriages are valid in the church doesn’t save them. Jesus does regardless of all that.” I stand by that. It’s what the Protestant church does well. In general I mean. Protestant churches have been exposed recently for their many flaws. Thank goodness Jesus is the One who is not flawed. We are made whole because He made it possible.
Mary's sinlessness was predicated on the sacrifice of Christ.
I don’t get why Catholics need for Mary to be sinless, or a “perpetual virgin”. How does that add anything to anyone’s faith or relationship with Jesus? Seems like a huge distraction from the things that actually matter.
It's because some influential early church teacher(s) had some messed-up views about sex, including that Adam's sin was an inherited guilt passed on through copulation. Hence, Jesus would have been inevitably "tainted" by Mary if she hadn't been sinless (and, presumably, she would have been sinful if she had not been sexless, in their mind).
Never mind exactly how Mary could have herself been sinless without her own parents being sinless, but you're not supposed to ask that sort of thing.
It's never about Mary. It's always about her Son. Nothing imperfect for him.
💯
I still don’t get it. How would Mary’s supposed sinlessness have any effect on Jesus?
I espouse to everything you have written and a huge THANK YOU for sharing Biblical truths, Sunnydaze!
Cults create a society of ppl who cannot leave out of fear of grave punishment and loss of closest relationships. Catholics are not "Christian" and only in the past sixty years decided they should promote themselves as such. There have been the most horrible sun atrocities committed by Popes over the centuries for the purposes of only worldly wreath, position and fame. They have supported the most evil governments. And you can't get out without fear of hell. Don't tell me that Protestants are the same. Sinners? Yes. Evil resides in the heart of everyone but true Christians don't support or hide FALSE leadership and they can remove such by God's command!
Catholics are not Christians. That statement isn’t correct. I know several Catholics who very much are Christians because I know they have invited Jesus into their hearts and have confessed it and believe it. Their theology and dedication to the Catholic Church concerns me but their devotion to Christ doesn’t and is real. I know them by their fruit too.
I just think that statement was too broad, in my opinion.
I'm not The Judge but there will be many who will say in that day of judgement "But LORD didn't we (do all the right things) in your name? And He will say to them "I NEVER knew you...".
I do absolutely agree!
Truth isn't about hate.
Perhaps you should read the definition of a cult.
A church is just a cult with more members.
You didn't look it up.
Which definition do you prefer?
I can't spread what you didn't create.
It is not a cult. Orthodox Christians, a substantial part of Christianity (Russia, The Balkans, Greece, parts of the Middle East and populations throughout North America and elsewhere) do NOT believe this at all. We grew out of the same first Christian church, officially separating in 1054.
Oxford defines a cult as "a system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular figure or object." Sounds like a mass to me.
You, Vonu, of all people, now citing a dictionary? You told me you have your own definitions for words like “Christian” and “Founders.” What's the word for that... hypocrates… hypodrome... hypodermic...?
I must have jumped through the looking glass. “When I use a word,” Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, “it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.”
“The question is,” said Alice, “whether you can make words mean so many different things.”
Those who know the true function of dictionaries need not duplicate their efforts.
The particular figure venerated in the Roman Mass and Orthodox Liturgy is our Lord.
Are you saying that all Christians therefore are in a cult?
Have you ever been to a Mass?
That's the sociological definition. Under that definition, any religion that has "ritual practices" is termed a cult (which is basically all of them). But hardly anyone outside of academia uses that definition.
The colloquial usage is more closely synonymous with "high-demand and/or controlling religious group". (Or, occasionally it just means "group that I think are heretics"!)
Nope. The transition from Judeism to Catholicism was easy Pharisees+add a little Christ, a little Apostle name dropping, a bone and a piece of fabric and an old letter and It's a new religion based on the old religion.
Christianity is No religion. There's no ritual you can do to be saved.
A fool never knows when to quiet himself. The Roman Catholic church is over 1 billion (1.36 billion in 2022) strong. It is therefore not all that difficult to infiltrate it with evil intent. The fact that it has been infiltrated does not make it a cult, but it does require that when infiltration has occurred, that it be eradicated. We in the Catholic Church are in an existential fight with those who infiltrated this false "pope". We will prevail.
Not in 2000 years. Not even the Reformation.
Agree. Satan has been very, very busy.
Not disagreeing, but curious as to which of the Pope’s actions are the most troubling to you? Was it pushing the jabs?
ST. MALACHY'S PROPHECY OF THE POPES
[Jorge Mario Bergoglio may just be the final man to claim the papacy before the utter destruction of Rome—at least according to St. Malachy’s Prophecy of the Popes.
St. Malachy was an Irish bishop in the 12th century. The first native-born Irishman to be canonized, he is known in the Roman Catholic Church for his work as a healer, a miracle worker, and as a reformer of the Church in Ireland.
But what he is most known for today is prophecy. St. Malachy was summoned to Rome in 1139 by Pope Innocent II, and while there, he experienced a vision of future popes, which he then recorded as a series of short phrases. This transcript was then placed into the Vatican Secret Archives, where it lay until 1590. ...] See more:
https://www.beliefnet.com/faiths/catholic/st-malachys-prophecy-of-the-popes-explained.aspx
There is a man whose name I can't remember who claims that there were a few antipopes included in the mainstream chronology of St Malachi popes and that Francis is actually "of the half moon", not "Peter the Roman". So we may have a few left yet.
https://www.youtube.com/live/nKSqvUXQe5Q?si=aaeXr-7e428DRY9N
Thou shalt not kill. Weak men want to escalate wars to make them look tough. We are ruled by insecure warmongers, which is why weak men create hard times…
The Media warmongers because they are paid to warmonger. Journalism is dead in Corporate Media. Reporting Propaganda and mitigating Truth is how they get paid.
100% on 🎯
And money funneling
the "experts" on diplomacy and peace are/have been actively decrying Trump and the Alt Right globally...this is their greatest enemy and all else is an Olympic event.
The MICIMATT complex wants wars to support their sales of $600 toilet seats.
The commandment is to not MURDER.
Yes. I was born have lived and will die a woman. And, I have found in my lifetime, that women are MUCH more oppressive than men.
That’s why I laugh when I hear women say something like “if women were in charge there would be fewer wars”. I found throughput my career that men were much easier to work with than women. I am not suggesting that this is true of all, or even most women, but it always seemed that those who rose to the top of the power structure usually had a very large chip on their shoulder.
Btw, I always say, I’m one of the good Karens.
I either say “not that Karen” or sometimes I say “so don’t mess with me!”
🤣 yea, nod and give them that serious side-eye raised eyebrow look!
I could have written this! My experience exactly.
You all have got to be kidding. In all of history, is there ONE woman who stands as a counterexample to men who ploughed through as much of the world as possible, men like Alexander the Great, Julius Caesar, Attila the Hun, Ghengis Khan, Peter the Great of Russia, Napoleon, Hitler, and so forth? As far as bloodthirsty rulers of their own lands, there are no females to compare to the bloodbaths perpetrated by Stalin, Mao or Pot Pot, just to talk about 20th century rulers. Elizabeth 1 of England had a fairly modest body count compared to other rulers of her age, and she didn't warmonger. Catherine the Great of Russia was a little more warlike, but she also was concerned about bringing Russia up to the "standards" of Europe culturally.
Certainly it would be hard to make a case that the handful of women leaders of the 20th century (Margaret Thatcher, Indira Ghandi, Benazir Bhutto, Corazan Aquino, etc. have been more warmongerish that the average male head of state in the 20th and early 21st century.
Not kidding. “Power corrupts” is just as true for women as for men. As you might expect, this has been the subject of research and here is a small excerpt “maybe because we don’t often think of queens as warmongers. But apparently, they were. In fact, between 1480 and 1913, Europe’s queens were 27% more likely than its kings to wage war, according to a National Bureau of Economics working paper (paywall). And like Isabella, queens were also more likely to amass new territory during their reigns, found the paper’s authors, economists Oeindrila Dube and S.P. Harish.”
The rest is of my comment was related to my direct experience in working for, and with, both men and women during a 35 year career as a professional.
Sent from my iPhone
Yes.
To each other…
Yes
I worked in a rate in the Navy that was 99.9% men. The only time I got "put on report" was by a female for "sexual harassment". I put her on a cleaning crew because she was worthless as a grease monkey and afraid to get dirty.
They do it for your own good: then they can congratulate themselves. Punitive tenderness.
I look at Nuland, Hillary and Albright as weak men… for they act more like a weak man than a strong woman.
Compare those three to MtG. Perhaps compare each to just one-third of MTG.
LIKE
Perhaps because it is feared that they will give birth to new terrorists? That title makes me cringe. 😬
Now I know that Yahweh saves His anointed;
He will answer him from His holy heaven
With the saving might of His right hand.
Some boast in chariots and some in horses,
But we will boast in the name of Yahweh, our God.
They have bowed down and fallen,
But we have risen and stood upright.
Save, O Yahweh;
May the King answer us in the day we call.
— Psalm 20:6-9 LSB
We need to remember, salvation is a gift, it is not compensation for a job well done.
It is a gift conceived and promoted by the men who created Christianity as a control mechanism after Jesus had disincarnated.
It is noted that you don’t believe.
Neither do you.
Poor Vonu..lonely and lost. Praying you know the truth before it is too late for you. I don't want anyone to be lost.
You must be so lost that you can't tell that you are lost.
Indoctrination will do that to you, if you let it.
So. Vonu.
Are you an atheist?
I am a Christian atheist.
Honestly I'm not seeing the "christian" part very often, given that most of your posts seem to be arguing against what the majority of Christians believe.
Seem being your most important key word, my having never elucidated more than a smidgen of my beliefs.
There are over 200 different Christian denominations and they don't agree with each other on everything they claim to believe. Any majority of such a gaggle would have to be fictional.
Your oxymoronic term “Christian atheist” tells us all we need to know.
I've interpreted it as something like the Richard Dawkins' approach of "obviously religion is made up, but Christian moral values are a good thing for the plebs to believe since they give better outcomes in society".
But I'm really just guessing, since Vonu seems disinclined to elaborate. And mocking Christianity seems like a strange way to proceed if you did indeed want "Christian moral values" to persist in society.
Your adhesion to gross ignorance and absence of intelligent analysis in favor of ad hominem attacks says the rest.
Ok.
You'd be surprised.
It is best to never show chronic surprise.
You can be surprised without showing it, if that's what floats your boat.
and sold. dont leave the profit out of prophet.
Thank you Janice. Many of the Psalms were also prophecies for our day.
May Yahweh have mercy on our people today.
Do you watch TBN? If so, I hope you saw the Stakeleback report last night when he interviewed Rick Renner, in Moscow.
It is quite obvious, that we are in as spiritual war evil versus good. Only God and our repentance of sin well bring our country back. All these baby steps, of course, are good. But we are going to need a massive revival. Keep praying to God, thank you Jeff for clearly articulating. what has been going on.
Hallelujah!!!
“Why is corporate media ignoring peace?”
Because the media is the PR wing of the international bankers’ military-industrial complex and is lavishly rewarded for enabling what G. Edward Griffin calls the Rothschild Formula in his chapter by that name in “The Creature from Jekyll Island”:
“As long as the mechanism of central banking exists, it will be to such men an irresistible temptation to convert debt into perpetual war and war into perpetual debt.”
In other words, it serves the war pigs.
• https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQUXuQ6Zd9w
• https://genius.com/Black-sabbath-war-pigs-lyrics
As the war machine keeps turning
Death and hatred to mankind
Poisoning their brainwashed minds …
Politicians hide themselves away
They only started the war
Why should they go out to fight?
They leave that all to the poor, yeah
Time will tell on their power minds
Making war just for fun
Treating people just like pawns in chess
Wait till their judgment day comes, yeah
Listening to Black Sabbath as a kid immunized me for life against all the BS. Thanks for highlighting them!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDbeqj-1XOo
Another great commentary on this limited type of thinking. And my favorite album of all time, still.
Yes “War Pigs” always remains relevant!
😎✊
MGA: Regardless of the shock-value and negative image associated with a band named "Black Sabbath", I've always LOVED this song - thank you for quoting from it! My next band will be required to cover this one.
In my last band, we covered "Won't Get Fooled Again", because to me, that song is both an anthem for the strong-minded and a commentary on the stupidity of the masses.
The singer in the band had a narrower interpretation, however, and in his mind it was about Trump - what an idiotic viewpoint. I replaced him eventually...
Black Sabbath was named and styled after the classic black and white movie title Black Sabbath, which represented a genre that was very popular at the time. Though I am GenX not boomer, I grew up watching all the Bela Lugosi, Peter Lorre, Boris Karloff, Vincent Price, et al. Christians tend to take things too literally in my experience, which just creates unnecessary tension for the person and who the angst is taken out on. Iron Maiden also, among many others of that time (Dio, Holy Diver comes to mind, whose cover causes all sorts of noise from the Moral Majority contingent at the time, trying to censor us.) Number of the Beast, etc, are telling stories, not proselytizing anyone. I lived for all of it, gothic horror movies, lit, music, poetry and, again, the effect was only to immunize me against thought control and coercion from any one, for any reason. Covid was a cake walk, as a result.
I have that movie on DVD! It's classic horror, the kind I tuned into with "Creature Features" as a kid.
I got into building "haunted houses" in my 40s - it began as a throwback to building things to scare kids on Halloween with my dad when I was a kid. When I was 15, I worked in a large haunt in LA, and so all those years later, I thought it would be fun to do that for the neighborhood kids on Halloween.
It ended up being a defining aspect of my character for about 12 years - I created a "company" of like-minded folks with technical and artistic talents and interest in the macabre. We did 4 major "haunts" around Sonoma County and several smaller events as well. When that portion of my life ended, I got into doing often-elaborate Halloween decor at the place that I live - we get literally thousands of trick-or-treaters on my street. They filmed two scenes from the movie "Scream" at my landlady's house. I had Halloween parties here for several years in a row, too. The last three years I did the parties, my band played in the driveway and we had big audiences - it was a blast.
I never catered to any satanic elements and always leaned into creating atmospheres with darkness and sound, rather than well-lit splashy gore.
In 2020, while home from work during the initial "2 weeks to flatten the curve" phase, I dreamed up my Halloween display while sitting on my balcony overlooking the yard. 7 months and $3500.00 later, I had an invisible dog that charged out of a doghouse in the middle of the yard and charged at passersby on the sidewalk from behind a short hedge, barking ferociously.
This effect involved two networked programmable logic controllers, a custom multi-channel sound system I developed, pneumatic props, and Arduino-controlled dim-able ultraviolet lighting, all triggered from the press of a button.
Because of Covid, the neighborhood was really quiet that year - instead of crowds, we had small bands of curious people going through the hood to see if anybody was doing anything for Halloween. These were my "victims", and they really enjoyed my thing. I realized after the fact that this would have never worked with big crowds - all my subtle sound designs would have been lost amid all that additional loudness.
I still have all that equipment, which could easily be re-purposed to do other things. Just waiting for the next big inspiration. I still want to hang Fauci in effigy out in front of the house. Maybe next year, after more people are aware of his monstrous deeds.
I think my neighbor and I are working on a flying saucer landing and/or flying between our houses...
Wow!! That all sounds so awesome! In my younger days, I knew a guy, artist, that made paper mache creatures, life size, but the AV and moving creatures you describe I’d love to see. The invisible dog sounds amazing! I love the macabre, Victorian style, like the Edgar Allan Poe stories brought to life. Even as a child, I preferred the black and white movies because of the effect. Moody, atmospheric, and ultimately beautiful. The Victorian era was really interesting. They elevated death to an artform with the rituals associated with mourning back then. The weaving together of tragedy with beauty, the belief in life after death, even with phenomena like catalepsy, really appealed to me aesthetically and spiritually too. It’s too bad gore replaced that later on. Edgar Allan Poe’s a great example of weaving death, love, longing and terror together into a multifaceted experience and art.
Great rather prescient tune I’d say.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDbeqj-1XOo
The ultimate revenge; turn off the TV news, avoid social media news and all MSM.
Commandment 11) Thou shalt not have false governments before you.
A hair dryer beats statins and stents any day.
Most of the time, we forget, in our Constitution, WE The People are intended to be the highest level of government, which we delegate to the state or federal government. BUT we have been like absentee landlords, myself included. We have a lot of squatters in government now.
Don't worship media, the news, entertainment, right or left - it's all about mind control imho. Working pretty well I'd say.
Jeff, thank you for your thoughtful treatise regarding the Ten Commandments today. Excellent
I agree with the commenter you highlighted, posting the 10 Commandments will in no way fix the broken public school system. I am a recently retired middle school public school teacher and the last 5 years of teaching were the worst. A poster of the 10 Commandments will not change the lack of discipline and lack of parental involvement in many public schools.
Yes. It’s progress though. The enemy moves in small steps that take decades. Then they POUNCE when we are weak. The courts since the 60s weakened morality and 2020 was the POUNCE attack.
The 10 Commandments are just basic common sense. Basic decency. It’s a sign the courts and current generation are sick of the results of the prior.
The point is, don't give up. Put those commandments back in the schools. Incremental change - it's what the leftists have been doing for years. Time to do same.
This is the right offensive move. God’s gracious guidance through His Law is always the right way and should always be held up by our leaders and taught to our children. Well done, Louisiana.
Exactly
Exactly!
And notice that "the enemy" pounces immediately on any attempt to shift the culture to a more conservative bent. The conservatives generally just say "meh, not that big a deal" when "the enemy" is applying their small incremental steps. Not a good tactic for conservative mindets.
Like termites, eating at a foundation is how the Democrats have been applying their wickedness.
Good description! "Like termites, eating at a foundation is how the Democrats have been applying their wickedness."
Johnny, I have to ‘like’ this too! But it is “triggering” common sense, and IMEx, folks generally resist being triggered. I do appreciate Jeff’s insight regarding the Constitution! The timing right before a major election does cause me pause. It will certainly be exploited by the left.
I think it’s ok to have the “pride” poster and the 10 commandments poster in schools. The pride posters are also “triggering”.
/s. ?
I don’t think it is intended to do that so the argument itself is flawed. It is only God who changes the hearts of people, if they ask Him or allow Him to. But, being led sideways like this country has for so long has ushered in an evil never welcomed before. Now it is openly welcomed and summoned. It’s time to change the atmosphere and get back to the basic principles that started us off on the right foot. Man always goes sideways without God whether you believe in Him or not. You don’t have to believe the truth for the truth to still be the truth. The Constitution or Bill of Rights or Declaration of Independence were never designed to be living and changing with societal pressures. The minute that started, we went sideways. Time to go back and undo what was done. 🤷♀️
Starting with murdering unborn innocent gifts from God. Next maybe it’s time to put some morality back in the public’s view. Let’s start training this generation up with moral rights and wrongs. Like no you can’t choose your gender because it violates biology and common sense.
Everything is backward. Time to set it back on the right path.
"You don’t have to believe the truth for the truth to still be the truth."
Yes. This. 100%.
Everyone has a relationship with God as their creator whether they believe in Him or not.
Lovely thinking here
Well said
But if adopted as the school norms and enforced consistently, schools should notice a shift in culture and climate over time. Changes in behavior come slowly in schools, especially in middle schools. We’ve instituted a LOT of change in ours (MS principal, here), and we are seeing progress (we can’t post the 10 commandments, but we do post Love and Logic norms). The progress is slow, but we’re getting there!
The kids are only in there 3 or 4 years and they move on. Each school year is an opportunity to instill basic decency, or destroy it. Thank you for being a voice of sanity in the school system.
If decency hasn't been installed by the time that a child begins indoctrination in the public fool system, is isn't likely to happen therein.
There you are, misery. No one wants to be in your company. We’re rejecting you and your negative comments.
If it reaches just one student, it is worth it.
If they haven't been reached before they get to the public fool system, I doubt that they are reachable.
The point was to use their own slogans against them regardless of if it works.
In this case, I think it will work.
But now you're clearly defeatist and there is nothing else I will say to you.
Thank God for small favors.
What are you doing to improve the situations being discussed?
Other than attacking any attempts to improve the state of the nation….
There's a good book out, called "Redeemed Unredeemable."
and a Proverb (22:6) which says to ''Train up a child in the way he should go; even when he is old he will not depart from it.''
I would say that the seeds should be planted, and if one becomes a prodigal for a time, when one becomes more mature and been through tough times, as long as we are breathing, we can return to the right path. All will die, it's just a matter of what state that person will be in at that moment. Will a person accept the grace of God, and His sacrificial love, or not? At the moment of death, we confirm our choice and cement our status as one of the redeemed or unredeemed.
First tutor spiritually, is the letter of the law (the commandments), then the fulfillment of the law on our behalf by Jesus, then if we accept it, the spirit of the law in the person of the Holy Spirit to give us the ability to abide by the law through His tutorship. That is how we become sealed for redemption.
I say let the states exercise their rights to introduce the ten commandments to children. It's a great first step.
What are Love and Logic norms?
Norms are on page 2 :). http://www.jpaultayloracademy.org/resources/About/how-to-create-a-love-and-logic-classroom.pdf
The Golden Rule…do unto others, is biblical. It is logical and is a show of Christian love as it puts others first.
“What is hateful to you, do not do to your fellow-man. This is the entire Law, all the rest is commentary” (Talmud, Shabbat 3id – 16th century BC)
Randi, the child hating alphabet mafia head of the teacher's union, probably didn't help either.
LIKE
If anyone objects to the 10 Commandments I would just ask, which of those do you not agree with? And then you know what kind of person you're dealing with.
Frankly, if they weren't in the Bible, they would be simple logical statements on how to live life well. If people reject simple logic merely because it has a spiritual context, then they need spiritual help.
The history in my school district is that parents complained about homework for the high school kids (Johnny has a job, Sally has to babysit the younger ones), so they came up with 90 minute classes so there's instruction time and homework time. As a substitute teacher, omg, it's torture. And really, most of the kids still don't get anything done. It's the legacy of NCLB only we're leaving all kids behind.
My former district stopped giving any homework at all. State test scores get lower every year, but they can see no connection to academic rigor and academic achievement. “We don’t want anyone to feel bad is their
motto.”
I can see the frustration in our teachers' faces about these kids who won't meet their actual potential. The office staff are frustrated with the parents.
Part of the problem are the nonsense requirements from the state. Tbh, we should be streaming kids earlier into technical/apprenticeships, community college and university tracks. A single high school diploma for all might require different levels of mastery. While we're at it, let's make mastery great again.
So ACLB :(
Goals 2000, NCLB, Common Core.
All destroyed the local schools where teachers were allowed to teach.
And our school records stayed in the local system.
Data is the god of today’s “education.”
That data doesn’t stay local but is in Fed hands. Just like medicine… electronic record keeping. The Feds know I didn’t comply & take those experimental shots.
Data is also in corporate hands. I recall talk of HR departments wanting access to those records when they are screening candidates for jobs 🤦
This I agree. We have let too much evil in but it is a start. If The 10 Commandment are allowed to be posted then they can be read, taught and discussed. When I was in school the Pledge of Allegiance was recited every morning and we learned what it meant and why we recited it. Baby steps are better than no steps. .
It may or may not fix the broken system but Jeff was trying to redirect the conversation today from whether we agree to whether Louisiana has the right, and it sounds like they do.
Considering that the Establishment clause applies to the federal government and not the states, it seems within their rights as a state to impose this rule regardless of how we each feel about it.
It is true that without invested teachers who would guide students in thinking about the 10 commandments, it won't do much. But it opens the possibility of a conversation, which isn't there at all now.
I do think people forget that there was a reason America attracted so many people from so many different places and religions. People came back when they knew Christianity was influencing this country because it offered something better than the country they left. And Judeo-Christianity was the force undergirding the freedoms and flourishing they sought.
So it sounds good to take it all away when we now have so many religions, but without the one that sees people with the most dignity ("made in the image of God"), we will lose the flourishing people came here for in the first place.
Many elementary schools in my area have been trying to reinforce, and celebrating, good character traits in students. Add to that the fact that a student is sitting in a classroom, for whatever amount of time, who can see the poster with the 10 commandments on it (even if the teacher never reinforces it verbally). You are at least exposing them to these thoughts/teachings about living a good life. Will it change a persons life? You never know what can be used to help a person become a better person. I believe it is a good start. Just a thought.
Then why did they remove them? Let’s give it 20 years and do an assessment!! What does it hurt to put a non sexual poster in the classrooms?
Spare the rod and “spoil” the child. Or in other words when parents fail to discipline a child (sometimes physical punishment is needed) the child will grow up to be an unruly, undisciplined adult with little or no regard for rules or the law, hence “spoiled.” Our government welfare programs incentivize single parent households where dispensing discipline too often becomes a difficult, burdensome chore for a single parent, usually the mother.
I agree with both your points, schools are terrible(I did after-school programs for 20 years), and posting the 10 commandments isn't going to help.
The part that I think gets passed over is that mandating the posting of rules from a particular religion is what will turn off independent voters, like posting 'pride' crap does to sane people. I'm sure tranny teachers can find some gay propaganda that sounds reasonable, but its the context and the symbols associated with the posting that is the problem.
IMHO Trump will not be president and the tyranny that we have experienced over the past few years will get amplified using things like this 10 commandments law to justify their need for control. Similar to what they're doing now, reminding everyone about the SCOTUS ruling on abortion the summer before '22 voting. Mandating things based on ideology doesn't work when you are in the minority.
Individual states passing laws by their people should be the norm. Federal dictates are reminiscent of the king’s orders.
The best “government” is that closest to the people.
The ‘abortion thing’ was not based on theology, but was based in the CONSTITUTION. State’s rights.
The word of God states His word will not return void. The Ten Commandments are also His word. They will not return void.
King David said it best: "Blessed is the nation whose God is the Lord." PS 33:12
The fact that Jason and Corrie’s story was broadcasted on a major platform for all to read - and have these ideas of polygamy and sexual orientation planted in their psyche - is proof that this was a satanic/spiritual attack: https://unorthodoxy.substack.com/p/are-we-under-satanic-attack
I just talked about this in my recent podcast on the topic of “Phantasmagoria.” Phantasmagoria is a mix of “fantasy” and “gore.” So while it sounds like a fantasy to have sexual liberation, you’re missing the gore aspect of the sexual damage you’re doing with being poly. A lot of our society is phantasmagoric, we just gotta pay attention: https://unorthodoxy.substack.com/p/exploring-complexity-and-spirituality
Thanks for touching on this. Their story was kinda unique, but a hedonistic society is looking to be formed, which is right along the playbook of Huxley in Brave New World: https://unorthodoxy.substack.com/p/the-brave-new-world-of-1984-part-205
I just wish people who want to play around wouldn’t get married. And when people marry the people they committed adultery with, guess what usually happens?. I feel sorry for the kids.
There was a saying back when I was much younger, don't know if it is still around: "If he will cheat WITH you, he will cheat ON you." Of course, nowadays you could also say, "If she will cheat with you, she will cheat on you." Additionally, with today's pronouns garbage, we should probably rewrite the whole thing to: "If he/she/they/ze/zir?/ will cheat with you, he/she/they/ze/zir?/ will cheat on you."
As far as the kids are concerned, they are NOT all right! This behavior damages kids no matter how the adults try to sugar coat it, and the kids will take this damage into their own relationships.
Mrs. "the Knife"
So true.
While we can often learn a great deal about words by pulling them apart, it's important to look at the real etymology, not just what English words the parts look like. In the case of phantasmagoria, it's
> From French phantasmagorie, from Ancient Greek φάντασμα (phántasma, “ghost”) + possibly either ἀγορά (agorá, “assembly, gathering”) + the suffix -ia or ἀγορεύω (agoreúō, “to speak publicly”).
Which makes sense given its definition: "A popular 18th- and 19th-century form of theatre entertainment whereby ghostly apparitions are formed."
"Two quick points. First, America was founded as a Judeo-Christian nation."
False. It was founded as a Christian nation. Every single founding father was a Christian. No other religions. The term 'Judeo-Christian' only appeared in common usage since the 1950s. It's a ridiculous made up term.
Jewish people hate the term. Just google it and see how they trash the concept.
Christians should stop pushing the idea as well. Stop being 'inclusive' by trying to glom these opposing theologies and stand for your own religion.
The term refers to the Bible-based religion. The Bible is a "Jewish" book, like it or not. All our laws stem from the Ten Commandments, and the system of judges.
Agreed. It stems from having the same value system. God's moral law doesn't change. What God said was an abomination in the OT is still an abomination today.
Agreed... and Jesus, Paul and John all described how the religion that rejected their promised Messiah was an abomination before God and warned them of the judgement to come within their generation that would destroy the Temple of God and leave not one stone upon another. What God considered an abomination was clearly described by the Prophets in the OT Scriptures.
No they did not.
That’s a lie from the Popes, as they were Edomites who hated Jews.
Yeshua Kept Torah, as did the early church. If you reject the OT, you are rejecting Yeshua’s, as He IS the WORD made flesh.
What Word did the NT church live by?
They didn’t have the NT!!! It had yet to be written!
They lived by what the Messiah lived by.
TORAH.
No, those of the Jewish religion live by the Talmud. The Messiah roundly condemned the Pharisees and the Sadducees for their legalistic perversion of the Biblical Old Testament faith. Judaism of today still follows the belief the Messiah condemned as an abomination. The Old Testament is God's Word. It's not a Jewish invention as is the Talmud. Jesus is God incarnate and all of the Scriptures are His Word. Judaism rejects all of that.
The New Testament is the farthest thing from a Jewish book.
And the term is a completely made up term. It was never used in the 1700s, or the 1800s, not until the 50s. It's a very subversive term.
Utter nonsense. The Messiah was a Jew, from the Tribe of Judah. All the disciples were Jewish. Paul/Saul was a Jew. All the scriptures written by the disciples AND Paul, the entire New Testament, are books written TO and FOR the Jewish congregations first, then to the other Tribes of Israel scattered abroad among the nations. They connect directly to the scriptures of the Torah and all the books of the prophets. The Messiah taught them.
Furthermore, the original followers of The Way, The Jewish Messiah, AFTER his death and resurrection, KEPT the Ten Commandments, and ALL the commanded Holy Days and Feasts, as did the Messiah himself. They were never "done away with", either then or now. They are clearly "forever", as is stated in the so-called "old" testament.
The facts are the facts. One can accept them, or reject them. The Jews at the time of the Messiah rejected them.
You said "The Bible is a "Jewish" book, like it or not.", which is false, considering the New Testament is despised by Jewish people:
https://jewsforjudaism.org/knowledge/articles/why-jews-cannot-accept-the-new-testament/
Read that link to see how they crap all over the very basis of Christian beliefs.
Therefore it's absurd to use a term like "Judeo-Christian" when they are in direct opposition.
Exactly.
I understand your confusion. Race does not define belief. The Old Testament is not "Jewish". It is the Word of God and the 10 Laws are God's Law, not "Jewish" law. In fact, the Talmud is the law of the "Jewish" religion. You are affected by the semantical confusion between Jew and "Jewish".
Totally agree with you Dave. Scripture in the NT speaks for itself. Scripture is pretty clear on the issue of Jewish and Gentile peoples.
Galatians 3: 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. (Meaning we are all offered salvation in Christ. Each person must determine whether they will place their faith in Christ to be reconciled to God or they will attempt to save themselves by their works. The issue of whether a person is Jewish or not is irrelevant).
2 Timothy 3:16-17 All Scripture is inspired by God and beneficial for teaching, for [b]rebuke, for correction, for training in righteousness; so that the man or woman of God may be [c]fully capable, equipped for every good work. Acts 17:10-11 As soon as it was night, the believers sent Paul and Silas away to Berea. On arriving there, they went to the Jewish synagogue. Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.
(When these were written, the New Testament canon had not yet been complied; therefore the immediate application would be to the OT.)
Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. (Salvation is open to all who have faith in Jesus Christ)
Jesus Himself said in Matthew 5:17 that he did not come to abolish the law but the fulfill it.
Paul explains in Romans 7 that the law (OT) isn’t sin, but it is a tutor to show us our sin and bring us to repentance. Remember there is not good news of salvation without the bad news of understanding that you are a sinner condemned under God’s holy wrath.
The Bible is not a Jewish book. The Bible is the Word of God and Jesus was the incarnation of that Word. Judaism perverted the Word and they live by the Talmud. They rejected and now reject the Messiah as God and are counted among the heathen. When Christ is accepted, then all are grafted back into the true olive tree. Until then, they are not a Bible-based religion.
Please!
Christianity gets better treatment from the Muslims than the Jews.
Muslims view Jesus as a prophet.
https://muslimunitycenter.org/how-is-jesus-perceived-in-islam/
"The Qur’aan tells us a lot of wonderful things about Jesus. As a result, believers in the Qur’aan love Jesus, honor him, and believe in him. In fact, no Muslim can be a Muslim unless he or she believes in Prophet Jesus."
--
Whereas Jews see Jesus as a trouble maker and a heretic.
https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/ask-the-expert-who-was-jesus/
"Was he just an ordinary man, a prophet, or a rebel who was causing trouble?
"Jews draw the line is at calling Jesus a prophet or messiah. "
The difference is that strictly religious Jews will not kill you for worshipping Jesus, they'll just refuse to have anything to do with you.
Whereas strictly religious Muslims will execute you for blasphemy and idolatry for worshipping and preaching Jesus.
(Also worth noting that even though Muslims claim Jesus as a prophet, they ret-con everything he said or did to make it line up with their own religion, and they do NOT take kindly to the real Jesus who is the Son of God, God come in the flesh.)
And muzzies still recommend killing those that trash muhammad. So there’s that. A tad contradictory, no?
Jesus clearly affiliated himself with his Jewishness, stating that he came for "the lost sheep of the house of Israel." The Gospel is for "the Jew first." Also, if a Muslim becomes a Christian, he/she is killed, often by family members. They have a fanatical hatred for designating Jesus as God's Son. Have you ever been to Israel, or any other country in the Middle East? The contrast in civility and culture is stark. I believe you are mistaken about the origins and heart of Christianity. We are "grafted in" to the promises originally made to the Jews.
Simply read The New Testament. None of what you wrote is reconciled there.
Christianity is defined by the belief that accepting Christ is the only way to Heaven. A theology absolutely opposed by Judaism.
The phrase "Judeo-Christian" is an oxy-moron. There is no common ground between Christianity and Judaism. The Gospels made it very clear what Jesus thought of the way Judaism perverted the Word of God which was the Old Testament.
There is common ground! Same God. Wow. That's offensive.
To the contrary, God Himself as the Son of God and the Messiah, came to His own and they rejected him. Judaism does not accept Christ as the Messiah as foretold in the OT Scriptures. Judaism worships a false god as Jesus described extensively in the Gospels. Simply put, Christians and Jews do not worship the same God. There is no common ground.
Christ himself was described as "Son of David". He was (and therefore still is) Jewish. He said "Do not think I have come to abolish the law, but to fulfill it." Clearly he was speaking of the Jewish law. If God himself describes Himself as Jewish, I will take him at His Word.
Yes, of course, the Messiah was descended from the line of David and racially is a "Jew". When the Messiah came, Jesus condemned the "Jewish" faith as a perversion of God's Word in the OT.
"Jewish law" is the Talmud and is antithetical to God's Law in the Bible and was roundly condemned by God Himself as the incarnated Son of God and Messiah. The "Jewish" religion or Judaism reject Him when he came to them and as a result suffered the judgement of God: "because these are the Days of Vengeance, in order that ALL THINGS WHICH ARE WRITTEN MAY BE FULFILLED." Luke 21:22
He only condemned those who perverted it. Just as there are 49,000 so-called ‘Christian’ (also a made-up word) denominations……most all perverting the Word…..or there wouldn’t be 49,000 different ones.
The only WORD that could be made flesh was the TORAH.
There are some Instructions (commands) that are strictly for the High Priest. Some are for those priests who were not High priests. Then there are Instructions for men, Instructions for women, Instructions for children.
So. Not everyone had to keep 613 commandments. Just those addressed specifically to either their position in the Temple Service or to their gender…..even to their age, in some cases.
Those Instructions were reasonable and, if one truly loved HIM, easy to keep.
The priesthood, in Yeshua’s day, had become infested with Edomites…..’wolves in sheep’s clothing’. (Like our own government today……God gave them the leaders they deserved because of their disobedience).
You think the Jews killed Yeshua, but I read and see that He GAVE His life. No one could TAKE His life. And He said “I did not come to condemn the world, but that the world through ME might be saved.”
His followers were Jews…..many Pharisees, others ordinary Jews.
The ‘church’ persecuted the Jews in Rome. Martin Luther was no ‘hero of the faith’ he was a murderous man who burned Jewish followers of Messiah in their home if they kept Sabbath.
The ‘church’ is as riddled (maybe more so) with lies and hatred and immorality….especially sexual, and GREED and lust for power, as the Sanhedrin ever was.
The church needs to take a good look in the mirror and see the completed log cabin in its eyes. The hatred of Jews is WAY out of line in the ‘church’.
I came out of those lies years ago.
To repeat myself................
Judaism is based on the Talmud. That is their law. The Messiah roundly condemned the Pharisees and the Sadducees for their legalistic perversion of the Biblical Old Testament faith. Judaism of today still follows the belief which the Messiah condemned as an abomination. The Old Testament is God's Word. It's not a Jewish invention as is the Talmud. Jesus is God incarnate and all of the Scriptures are His Word. Judaism rejects all of that.
As for who killed Him, it was the Romans who nailed Jesus to the Cross. Why? In Matt 22:17, He is asked by the Pharisees, "Tell us, therefore, what do You think? Is it lawful to pay taxes to Caesar, or not?”... And He said to them, “Render therefore to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s.”..." People focus exclusively on "render unto Caesar" not understanding the revolutionary nature of His answer.
Under Roman law, Caesar was "god" and he owned everything. When Jesus said to render unto God the things that are God's, He was saying there is a God above Caesar and everything does NOT belong to Caesar. That was a statement of sedition and treason against the Roman state and it is for that reason the Romans crucified Him. Jesus was killed for being a revolutionary against the Roman state.
Been with you, Phil, up until the end when you suggest the Roman's killed Jesus for rebelling against the Roman state. That's clearly not the case. Pilot saw no Roman laws being broken by Jesus. It was the Jewish crowds in Jerusalem whipped up by their religious leaders shouting "Crucify Him!" that led to His Passion.
Having said that, the most important commandments (as Jesus again responds to baiting Jewish religious leaders) is that the two most important commandments are to Love God above all and Love your neighbor as yourself (especially your enemies). It's not easy being a Christian. Love for all mankind is at the center of Christian life. That cannot be said for any other religion that I've encountered.
I expanded on this here....(which is further down in this string)
https://open.substack.com/pub/coffeeandcovid/p/yes-thou-shall-friday-june-21-2024?r=u78oh&utm_campaign=comment-list-share-cta&utm_medium=web&comments=true&commentId=59750332
What you say is true... and of course I wasn't there firsthand. The Gospels are concerned with the reaction of the Jews who, at the behest of the Sanhedrin, continuously called for Jesus to be crucified for blasphemy. (Sound a bit familiar huh?) Nothing is really said about the basis in Roman law Pilate used to justify his decision to give in to the Sanhedrin and sentence Jesus to death. The focus of the gospel accounts is on the reaction of the Jews to Jesus. So I am taking a bit of speculating license to infer that Jesus' statement of "render unto God that which is God's" would justify or allow Pilate to impose the death sentence for sedition and treason against Caesar. Obviously, when Jesus gave that advice to the Pharisee disciples and the Herodians, He knew that advice was sedition under Roman law. The Pharisees didn't catch Him in a blasphemy as they had plotted but they did get Him to speak against Caesar and they could use that against Him later.
What church hates the Jews?
I know of none.
I am not aware of any condemnation by Christ of Jewish religion. Indeed, my Lord and Savior is the son of a Jewish girl, and talking smack about his Mom does not seem helpful. Quite the opposite - one can hardly be more "Jewish" than to be Catholic.
That was most confusing. Have you not read the Gospels?
George Burnet: ♥️🙏👍
The word of God states: acceptance of Christ is the only way to Heaven.
A theology absolutely opposed by Judaism.
Here we go again on the misconceptions of Christianity, Judaism, and what the Bible actually is, and taught. I am loathe to engage in this discussion. Perhaps later.
Why make a comment to say you don’t want to comment… I find this topic extremely interesting and adding to it can help.
Jeff makes it like Judaism is a friend of Christianity, and therefore sending 4 BILLION a year to Israel every year (on top of $25 BILLION just this year for the Gaza extermination) yet they don't even accept Jesus as a prophet.
Even as Islam does, and in fact requires followers to acknowledge Jesus as a prophet of God.
This is all because of a false theology that has corrupted the American church which is now preoccupied with the Great Escape, ie the Rapture, and an always soon-to-be, any day now, end of the world called The End Times.
All of the "foreign aid" that is given away by the USG is theft of the American people and it is all wrong. The trillions given away to the political state of Israel is no exception and it is NOT sanctified by a belief they are "God's chosen people". God's chosen people have ALWAYS been those who believed in God's Word and the promise of the coming Messiah and today is NO DIFFERENT. By Biblical definition, God's chosen people are all - past, present and future - who are part of the body of Christ. All others, including "Jews", are unbelievers in need of the saving grace of Christ.
Actual truth is always fairly simple.
Can we separate political zionism from Judaism as a religion?
Yes, it is heart warming the respect and reverence and acknowledgement which Islam holds for Jesus.
Their politics aside, they are worthy of praise for how respectful they are for the holy ones. They do not use God's name in vain as the west does.
Excellent points. Thank you.
Yes. Zionism is particularly corruptive of both Judaism and Christianity.
He is the same. All Christian traditions teach this. God the Father is the same.
I believe in one God, Father Almighty, Creator of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.
And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all ages; Light of Light, true God of true God, begotten, not created, of one essence with the Father through Whom all things were made. Who for us men and for our salvation came down from heaven and was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary and became man. He was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate, and suffered and was buried; And He rose on the third day, according to the Scriptures. He ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father; And He will come again with glory to judge the living and dead. His kingdom shall have no end.
And in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the Creator of life, Who proceeds from the Father, Who together with the Father and the Son is worshipped and glorified, Who spoke through the prophets.
In one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church.
I confess one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
I look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the age to come. Amen. 🙏
Amen.
Jesus is the cornerstone to Christianity.
Literally opposed by the 'Judeo' side. In fact they killed him!
(or so I hear).
These are opposing religions, and it sounds ignorant for Jeff to try to glom them together. Is he trying to avoid being 'cancelled'?
There will be those everywhere, in all times, in all places, and in all people who will basically say 'crucify Him'.
People love to hate and easily get riled up to hate. Don't we see this daily?!
Therefore, Jesus, a Jew, living among Jews, was hated by *some* of his fellow people, and they got carried away and cried 'crucify Him'.
A Priest I know used to say "how do we know that we wouldn't have done the same"?
It was not the Jews who 'killed him'. It was the overly sinfully passionate hearts of man...*every* man.
Certainly a contentious subject. But in the battle of the religions, Jewish leaders saw the rise of Christ as a threat.
https://www.catholic.com/magazine/online-edition/did-the-jews-kill-jesus
"The Second Vatican Council taught that “the Jewish authorities and those who followed their lead pressed for the death of Christ; still, what happened in his passion cannot be charged against all the Jews, without distinction, then alive, nor against the Jews of today”
"Literally opposed by the 'Judeo' side. In fact they killed him! "
Careful! Saying words like that could get you jail time in certain countries...and maybe even here in the Ol' US of A, if certain bills get passed.
Which shows who really runs America, doesn't it?
Jews run America. Sure.
Sec. of State Blinken (pushing Bolshevik style war amongst Christian Orthodox Russians and Ukrainians)
Treasury Secretary (sends $$$ to Ukraine/Israel; #1 and #2 recipients of US Aid are Jewish)
Attorney General Garland (imprisons hundreds of Christian J6 protestors)
Homeland Security Mayorkas (pushes 3rd world replacement of White America)
I was actually being sarcastic. Days like today are why I don't comment very frequently. My comment was mild in the extreme and some of you guys are not very nice... Turning off replies now! Have great day!
I hear ya. It's exhausting. Take care.
If Trilby didn't want a response, he shouldn't have commented.
As for who runs the World, all I know for certain is that it ain't ME. Which is probably a good thing.
Same God? The Trinitarian one? So Jews believe in all the Christophanys in the OT?
A big part of this argument seems to be a conflation between "ancient Judaism", being the background and origin of Jesus' life and teachings, versus "modern Judaism", being a rejection of Jesus' life and teachings.
There was no "Judaism" back at the height of the Israeli republic and then the Kingdom of Israel. There was only the Biblical faith and practice as given to them by God: faith in God's Word and the promise of the coming Messiah. This was practiced by all of the 12 tribes of Israel. After King Solomon died nearly a thousand years before Jesus, the kingdom split into two kingdoms. The northern kingdom was composed of 10 tribes and the southern kingdom was dominated by the tribe of Judah. About 200 years later, the 10 tribes of the northern kingdom were taken into captivity and relocated by Assyria. Apparently, the southern kingdom of Judah allied with Assyria against their brothers. This would be about 700 years before Jesus.
By the time Jesus was born, the religious establishment of Judah had fallen into apostasy, what is still called today as Judaism. Jesus' triumphal entry into Jerusalem which was the coming of the King to his own (Matt 21:5) demonstrated that Jesus was very popular with the people and as such was a threat to the religious establishment. From that point forward, the tenor of Jesus' ministry changed and immediately He began acting as the King, cleansing the Temple, prophesying His death and the judgement of God in the parable of the vinedressers and other parables, taking the Pharisees and the religious establishment to task for their apostasy and warning the people of the judgement of God that will be visited upon them with the destruction of the Temple and all of Jerusalem.
His triumphal entry into Jerusalem clearly demonstrated the extent of His popularity with the people and therefore the threat He represented to the authority of the religious establishment. His ministry and teachings made the apostasy of the Sanhedrin and the religious establishment very clear as contrasted with Jesus' words. Clearly, He was an existential threat to them and He had to be killed.
So you can appreciate the reaction of the High Priest to Jesus' statement in Matt 26:64.
When they arrested Him and took Him before Pilate, the Sanhedrin organized a crowd to demand from Pilate the death penalty for Jesus. So they took Him to Pilate and the only response Jesus would give to him was "It is as you say" when Pilate asked Him if he was "the King of the Jews".
Jesus clearly exposed the apostasy of the religious leaders of His day and this is the same Judaism practiced today based on the Talmud. What we are seeing today in the American church is a conflation of Judaism and Christianity. As such, this is once again a corruption of the Biblical faith. This "Judeo-Christian" concept has been so repeatedly programmed into the thinking of Christians today that it is very difficult to even talk about these concepts with anyone.
A rose by any other name.
I daresay most people would understand "Judaism" to describe the religion of the Jews tracing back to Moses, and merely qualify it as "apostate Judaism" to describe the part of Israel that rejected their King. Arguing over whether it's "not really Judaism at all" mostly results in debates over names rather than substance.
I agree that the term "Judeo-Christian" can imply there is minimal distinction between Rabbinic Judaism and Christianity, which is false. But reacting too far in the other direction risks sending the message that Christianity is a new and unrelated thing to the revelation of the Old Testament, which is also false. Jesus remains the King of the Jews, regardless of whether present-day Jews accept him.
Agree for the most part. This is where precision of language becomes important. I disagree that Biblical faith depends in any way on Judaism. Christianity is clearly the belief in the entire Word of God and needs no endorsement from apostate faiths. No one disputes that or believes that Christianity is some novel invention bereft of 2,000 years of history. What you are actually implying is that Judaism is somehow still a valid Biblical OT faith. Judaism does not represent the faith of Moses, David or the OT prophets. In fact, the Prophets warned against the apostasy and foretold of the Messiah's rejection by His own and the resulting Judgement to come upon Jerusalem. The Biblical faith has no truck with Judaism. What common ground does the truth have with a lie or light with darkness?
When Jesus made his triumphal entry into Jerusalem as King of the Jews, the people recognized and received Him with great joy. The religious establishment recognized that their apostasy was being exposed by Him and plotted to kill him. Jesus even affirmed this when Pilate asked Him if he was King of the Jews. In His ministry, Jesus made it clear on multiple occasions that the religious Judaic establishment was an abomination before God and that they would be gathered up and burned. Those Jews who accepted and believed in Him were the true Israel and the true Jews. The rest were apostates. Those who followed Him are the ones we later call Christians. They were the believing Jews who kept the faith of their fathers in the Word of God.
After His death and resurrection, Jesus ascended to glory to sit on the throne at the right hand of the Father to rule and reign in history no longer as King of the Jews but as King of kings and Lord of lords as the covenant was made new in His blood and expanded to include all peoples, the true Israel of the New Covenant. And He poured out the Holy Spirit to indwell and empower all believers as His body on earth and commissioned them to now carry the Gospel of His kingdom to the whole world.
The husk of apostate Judaism was left in ruins by the judgement of God when the Temple was destroyed and Jerusalem left in ruins (Luke 21:20-22). The infiltration of "Judeo-Christian" theology is a lie of Satan used to distract and lead today's Church astray. God's chosen people are all believers in Christ, Jews and Gentiles alike. The Messiah came to the Jews first according to God's promise and gathered His elect out from the apostate establishment which was then left to burn. For the American church to invest some kind of sanctified legitimacy to the modern political state of Israel just due to the name and location is unBiblical and an affront to Christ.
Well, again.. we're at the disagreement over whether the Old Testament is validly described as "judaism" or not. I certainly agree that the Judaism of today is not the same as the "judaism"/"not-judaism-at-all" of Moses, David, et al. Anyone who suggests that God will save anyone via the means of "Judaism" apart from Christ is dangerously mistaken.
I just think that most people would understand the Old Covenant history to fall within the term "judaism", and therefore the phrase "Christianity is not dependent on Judaism" to be a rejection of God's work prior to the Incarnation. Which I know is not your intention; just a concern about the risk of miscommunication.
To be precise, Judaism did not exist in Moses' or David's day so I think that is misleading to a lot of people who aren't acquainted with the history. Judaism arose as an errant theology in Judah long after David and Solomon's day.
Remember HE followed the Bible. Do not confuse the government with GOD'S people.
HE didn't just follow the Bible. He IS the Word incarnate and as such He fulfilled all things that were written. Luke 21
So, then you don’t believe that Yeshua is the Word.
Maybe you should quote me. Jesus is the second person of the Trinity - Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Jesus is the Messiah and the incarnate Word of God.
I used to hate the term (I'm Jewish), but now I welcome it. I'd rather be on your guys's team than not. Even as just a relief player.
🙏😊♥️
Ditto friend!
Christianity is built upon the Jewish religion. They can hate it because it adds to their beliefs, doesn’t change that we are forever entwined. Maybe if The Church hadn’t tried to kill them for a thousand years or so, they would be more hospitable. Our Savior is one of them, we can’t get around that fact.
Those who bless will be blessed. Those who curse will be cursed. If you don’t believe the Scriptures, just look around.
But guessed who financed it.?
George Washington sent a letter to a Jew , Haym Salomon, saying that he had run out of money to pay the troops and many didn’t even have shoes and it was winter. Mr Salomon gave all he had, ending up dying a pauper.
The Law, the ‘Instructions’ given to Moses are all over DC buildings.
There were even discussions of having Hebrew as our language, so that citizens could read the texts in the original language.
There used to be debates at Harvard in Hebrew, Latin and English……about the Word of God.
So yes, we were established as a Judeo -Christian nation. (The first Christians were Jews. And they continued to keep Sabbath and the Biblical Holy Days (the days the ‘church’ keeps are not Biblical nor are they holy.).
First 5 books of the Bible are also the Torah. There are plenty of Messianic Jews - Jews who believe Christ is the Messiah.
We can recognize that God revealed himself to the Israelites, and chose them to bring our Savior to the world. But we are Christians, we follow Christ not some hyphenated, watered down hybrid. And as BFM notes, it's a made up term with no historical usage in the church.
On top of that, modern Judaism is Talmudic-based (aka Pharisee Judaism). The Talmud was compiled centuries after Christ, is highly legalistic, is a works based salvation, and the antithesis of the New Covenant. Read what Christ says to the Pharisees in the Gospels, it's not the touchy-feel Jesus we were taught about in Sunday School, He read them the riot act. People act as if Judaism is just Christianity without the NT which isn't the case. The Jews aren't our "spiritual big brothers" as people try to portray them, but a group that willingly rejected Christ. They went on to deviate even further from Christ's message over the centuries as the Tulmud became far more influential than the OT itself.
We can and should be respectful to Jewish people and treat them with dignity and respect (as the Bible commands us to do with all people). But that doesn't mean that we need to debase ourselves and pretend we are all part of one big spiritual blob. We follow Christ, and He told us that He came to divide. People don't like to hear it, but it's what the Bible says.
I was not talking about ‘modern’ Judaism. I was not talking about the Sadducee’s or the Pharisee’s. I was speaking of the followers of Yeshua, in the NT, who indeed followed TORAH. Not the Talmud. They only followed “It is written’. The only ‘written’ Word they had was Torah.
Even Paul said he was a Pharisee, and many Pharisee’s believed in Yeshua. Yeshua followed the Torah so that we would know it could be done.
The Rabbi’s made up their own ‘laws’, and THOSE laws were impossible to keep.
Torah, as Yeshua and the early ecclesia showed us it IS possible.
Messiah said HIMSELF that He did not come to destroy the Law.
Those who deny that He said that simply do not WANT to follow His Instructions.
They want to do “what is right in their own eyes”.
What are you talking about? I was replying to BFM and his comments regarding "Judeo-Christianity" and that is was a made up term and frankly an oxymoron. He is exactly right.
I don't know what you think you are arguing as it's muddled with a bunch of out of context references, but I'm guessing that you are saying that Christianity is an offshoot of Judaism. That's completely wrong, it's the fulfillment of Judaism. There was no need for Judaism after this and predictably it went completely off the rails with absurdly legalistic Talmudism.
Christ said he did not come to destroy the law *but to fulfill it* (you left off the most important part). The law showed us our hopeless depravity and that we are lost without Christ. The law pointed us to Christ, He is our new high priest. His vicarious atonement fulfilled the law and our salvation is through Him as we could never earn our own salvation (as the law makes clear). We cannot possibly comply with the law as written in the OT, that's the point. It's not just rabbi interpretations but the very law itself. We do our best but we will always fall short of the glory of God (as Paul stated). Tulmudism made it infinitely worse.
Paul's references to being a Pharisee were historical and comparative, he wasn't claiming to still be a practicing Pharisee. The points I make about the law above were written by him over and over. He primarily developed this theology (under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit). It's the bedrock of Christianity.
Please read the book of Hebrews *in total and in context* as this is very clear spelled out. You can't cherry pick a couple of passages and claim the apostles were Judeo-Christians, it's nonsense. They were ethnic Jews who fully committed their lives to Christ, Paul even had to rebuke Peter on this very subject.
Truth
Well stated
Well put. Even “ Christian” is a made up label that came from Rome to address Christ followers that increased after Christ had risen. We all will die alone and each person must deal with their own mortality and afterlife individually. Labels mean nothing.
Fair point. Thank you.
BFM- excellent! Let’s start a movement to trash that squishy term Judeo-Christian. This is a linguistic tool to confuse thought and philosophy. You’re either one or the other and a hyphenated combination does nothing to advance clarity.
"...a linguistic tool to confuse thought and philosophy..." Exactly!
It is an accurate term in the context of Romans where Paul speaks about us being grafted into the roots of the original tree which was Hebrew/Jewish. Semantics confuse sometimes, when different people ascribe different definitions to the same words... It's hard to say what Judeo, Jewish, Hebrew, semetic, etc all mean without allowing for the original historical setting of the Bible, old and new testaments. To me,Judeo-Christian means that it started out Jewish and became Christian with the life of Jesus and the apostle. Christian was a term first used in Antioch in the time of Paul (formerly Saul) the apostle. (Acts 11:26) It has been used and misused incorrectly ever since, but Paul also made it clear in Romans that we non-Jews have been grafted in and if the Jews accept Jesus they can easily be grafted back in to Jesus, the Vine, of which we believers are branches that can be pruned, grafted in, removed and tossed into the fire, based on OUR own choices to be in Him or not.
I may be wrong. but I always thought of the Judeo part as the Ten commandments because the term is usually used as an adjective for morality.
I agree with you but it would be far less confusing and more accurate to use terms such as "biblical morality".
Some colonies primarily Protestant, Catholic, or Enlightenment-Deist-(masters-slaves), then a Nation and Constitution of this blend. The Judeo part can be argued obliquely, so can Greco-Roman.
I assumed that really meant Old Testament. Is that correct?
It is not false. It is true.
Washington, Jefferson, Franklin, Madison and Monroe—practiced a faith called Deism, not Christianity.
A significant portion of New England were Unitarians, not Christians.
Thomas Paine was an atheist. And Jefferson himself cut all the miraculous statements in the New Testament out with a razor.
Ah yes... the bad apples always float to the top.
All right, I'll bite. The 10 commandments thing used to really get under my skin because the athiests and whomever never had any room for compromise and could care less what you thought when they were out destroying the moral side of life. Just like the abortion issue, it was all or nothing. Well now I feel that, it's tit for tat. They've been spitting their vile crap at us for years now and we've just let it happen. It's great to see some conservatives have some cahones to show what real law is about. And if you follow the 10 commandments, your life will turn out pretty good. Teach THAT to kids!!!
You’re on the right track. I’m there too. Doing nothing invites them to dominate and destroy every fabric of family and decency. We just want to be left alone to live our lives but they’ve forced us to fight. Local local local. Start in your own town.
There actually was a town for sale in SoCal not long ago - were I younger and independently wealthy…I might have taken on the challenge.
"Even if only to save the climate..." You hit the nail on the head, Jeff! Just "imagine" (as JL might say) if all the global warming-climate changing freaking out Gretas, Al Gores, Leo DiCaprios, Robert Redfords out there were to say with one voice, "Stop the war right now, you're ruining the climate!"
After all, what's really more important to them...saving Ukraine, or saving the Planet?
Surely nuclear missles won't damage the environment!
Like everything else, the environmental movement seems to have been turned upside down and inside out. It used to be that environmentalists were concerned about saving plant and animal life, the rainforests and not polluting the earth. Now they seem to embrace destroying ecosystems to install wind and solar farms and using geoengineering to block the sun and control the weather(?maybe), without any consideration of what harms these things are doing to the animals that inhabit these places, not to mention humans. At least I haven’t seen any evidence that there are”environmentalist opposing these measures. All of which is most assuredly doing more to harm the planet than carbon ever could.
Go to any DMV in South Florida and see 1,000+ immigrants being processed EVERY DAY. Where is Desantis?
Resting after his failed Presidential run.
- Jabs - still being pushed in FL
- Ivermectin - no where to be found in FL
- 3rd world Invaders - everywhere and growing
Probably hoping that Trump ends up in jail and he can swoop in.
Well that’s very disappointing
Are you saying Desantis is not all that his PR makes him out to be? I'm shocked!
The IVM I get through the mail ( no script required) ships from Florida.
If you need ivermectin in Florida, there's some around. I know of one place. Let me know, I don't know the rules of posting! 🦋
Immigrants or illegal migrants? Let's not confuse words because there is nothing wrong with legal immigrants. Most of us are descendants of legal immigrants! Few of us go back to original settlers.
If they are given paperwork for processing are they illegal? I couldn’t believe my eyes.
Part of the msm narrative is to leave off the ‘ illegal ‘ part & just call them immigrants. Can’t let them continue to hijack the language.
How do you know the difference anymore? I know a young woman who came here for university from Japan. Finished her study and was hired immediately by US company so stayed. She married an American citizen, and is still in the citizenship holding pool. Her immigration attorney blames a ruling made by Trump, but I really don't know what to make of it.
Maybe refilling those take-a-ticket machines?
LOL.
Walkins are no longer accepted.
Lines wrap around the buildings.
People are holding paperwork in similar ‘American Flag’ folders.
English is not spoken…
Appears to me he will not push back against Washington and the Marxists.
Still plotting to be President.
On the 10 Commandments: Did you know Moses was the first Tech Support guy? He was the first man in history to download data from the cloud to his tablet. .... :)
Thank you, thank you...I'll show myself out...
LOL, thanks for the giggles.
lol
Concerning this : " .... this case concerns government agencies coercing social media platforms to censor Americans for misinformation ...", wouldn't it be more accurate to say " ... censor Americans for what government agencies claim to be misinformation ..."?
the mis dis and mal informers and censors were a private-public-state security conspiracy complex that itself needs to be destroyed and litigated against. Wrecking ball the cabal, or allowances and permissive excuse-making...what will the Court conclude?