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VeryVer's avatar

According to El Gato Malo, and Zerohedge, Go Fund Me will now automatically return the money to donors. Elon Musk weighed in on twitter as well, comparing GoFundMe to professional thieves. A plan was afoot to make GoFundMe pay charge-back fees from banks, by requesting refunds through the banks -- $15 a pop. That might also have something to do with their change of "heart."

Yes, I'm paying way to much attention to the Canada trucker story. I'm in Vermont and miss being able to travel there a lot. Nothing's happening in Vermont, so Quebec was where you go for fun. But since I'm now a walking diseased-ridden pustule of death, I can't go unless I take the obsolete Corona shot, circa 2019. Maybe I should also get the 2010 flu shot as well? Or maybe I should get vaccinated against distemper, Feline Calicivirus and Equine Encephalitis as well, I mean if useless medical procedures are the requirement here....

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Julie's avatar

Sounds like you're inoculated with Common Sense and that's the biggest problem for them! 😉

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INGRID C DURDEN's avatar

Unfortunately Common Sense cannot be inoculated. What a relief that would bring !

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Julie's avatar

😂😂 I could make a fortune if I could package that! Or maybe people wouldn't want it... ignorance is bliss? 🤔

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TFT's avatar

Although I don't believe in anything being compulsory, a legally-required, common-sense jab wouldn't be a bad idea in today's world!

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INGRID C DURDEN's avatar

well there is that LOL

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cat's avatar

Nah, next they will require proof of sterilization. Because, "science." 😂

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Copernicus's avatar

Actually, you are speaking more truth than many realize.

If they can force us to accept one medical procedure, for the good of society, why not another?

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INGRID C DURDEN's avatar

Well don't they already do that for our animals ? You are kind of watched upon to have your cats and dogs sterilized, otherwise your beasts are a nuisance ! And I think Gates foundation sterilized bunches of Indian girls. Don't know if that was true but read it in several sources.

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Harold Saive's avatar

HOW mRNA SPIKE PROTEIN INTIATES DEADLY THROMBUS (Clots) and KILLER LEUKOCYTE STORM

https://justpaste.it/1mh3z

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Al X. Griz's avatar

No need - already “built” into the spike spikes!

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M. Dowrick's avatar

Why doesn’t Elon donate 9 million to the truckers. I think he can afford it. Put your money where your……

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Anna T's avatar

Maybe he has donated to the truckers and doesn't want people to know? Dunno.

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JC in Ak's avatar

I checked the largest donors and I believe some gave $20,000!

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Daily Growler's avatar

That chargeback-through-the-backs idea is great. Since Canadian "authorities" were threatening to charge contributors with some sort of "aiding terrorism" criminal charge, I bet some people might have been reluctant to submit refund requests.

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M. Dowrick's avatar

Anybody been to Chicago lately? Downtown now a no go area. Stay away. Shootings daily, stores robbed daily, kids gathering on mopeds blocking the main streets, causing mayhem. Not a word in the press about this nonsense though.

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INGRID C DURDEN's avatar

There is some, on the more local level. I get some regional news on my newsfeed because I blocked all the big ones LOL. That gives for some rather unusual items but that is okay. I even get Italian news !

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FedUpInOR's avatar

I don’t think you’re paying way too much attention, I can’t get enough of the story! I’m so proud of the truckers and when I can get through to their givesendgo, I’ll plan to give a little extra on gofundme’s behalf

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LMWC's avatar

Thanks for the well written, sassy comment. You’re pushing Jeff and Eric for my daily “snort my coffee out through my nose, laughing” report of Coffefe/Corona.

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Feb 5, 2022Edited
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Eli's avatar

Yes! you were the one who linked that donation site here and that's where I donated. Thank you. In a bit of good news, Fox News did a super positive report on the truckers yesterday, with lots of interviews showing how peaceful and logical and downright sweet these people are. Great to see that in a mainstream outlet finally.

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Oh Susanna's avatar

Go Fund Me backtracked after a lot of outcry and will now refund all donors automatically, rather than appropriating their funds for GFM-approved charities if they don't request a refund. A lot of people online are saying they have or will give double what they gave through Go Fund Me. https://www.givesendgo.com/FreedomConvoy2022

The Ottawa police chief made some serious threats to the protestors yesterday, basically of getting data on everyone there and using it at any time in the future for persecution, and shutting down the protest. I hope enough people go this weekend to make that impossible and that officers refuse to obey unlawful orders. Praying a lot.

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Copernicus's avatar

Yes, many frequent fervent prayers for those in Ottawa and at the MT/Alberta border.

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Alan Davis's avatar

That is pure evil. Those local pols are getting so much pressure from Trudeau and NWO to end this. Have you seen mayor of Vancouver BC statement? Equating medical choice as hate.

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Oh Susanna's avatar

I hadn't seen that. But it's pretty much par for the course of what's been coming out of most politicians' mouths, starting with Justin Trudeau. This uprising has exposed just how evil and committed to tyranny they are.

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Al X. Griz's avatar

But unfortunately institutions and gov still holding the cards and hypnotized normies yet dancing to their wicked tunes. What will it take to dislodge this mania?

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Oh Susanna's avatar

I don't know. The outcome of revolutions is never predictable. All I know is we gotta keep fighting. More and more Canadians are waking up.

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INGRID C DURDEN's avatar

Here in deep South seems like people are falling asleep again. MOre than half of the Walmart shoppers this morning wearing masks, most of them only covering their mouth, or even hanging under their chin, but still wearing them even little children. They even had a stack lying at the entrance. No thanks.

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Oh Susanna's avatar

I guess the

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Based Florida Man's avatar

Those miserable Ottawa police leaders need to be dealt with as well, by getting them all fired or prosecuted.

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Martha's avatar

As info, the GSG link Jeff cited is to Adopt a Trucker. The convoy GSG link is: https://www.givesendgo.com/FreedomConvoy2022

The traffic to GSG is overwhelming, so it's hard to get through to make a donation. Be patient!

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VeryVer's avatar

Yes. The Trucker campaign is up to $750,000 already, so that's good. I hope they get some of the money.

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Eli's avatar

I'm very thankful that someone here linked GSG last week, so that's where I donated. However, they were at about 800K last week and are at about 800K when I just checked now, yet donations are rolling in by the minute. Very confusing. Maybe a computer glitch?

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FlanneryM's avatar

There are 2 different GSG accounts, the general one and one to adopt a trucker. The general one is new. That may be why there's confusion?

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VeryVer's avatar

That's weird. The word last night was that it was a brand new campaign -- maybe the one from last week was ...retired? These online donation things always feel like scams to me.

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Oh Susanna's avatar

There are two. Adopt a trucker has been running on GSG for a while but never got nearly as much traction as the GFM which goes to fuel and maintenance.

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Al X. Griz's avatar

Trudeau you had your chance

To end this totalitarian dance

But you chose to double down

Now the truckers will run you out of town

Perhaps Cuba will accept this sad clown

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Butterfly2510's avatar

This is the link

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Martha's avatar

Thanks for fixing it ~ copied mine from elsewhere since I can't get through!

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INGRID C DURDEN's avatar

Ah thank you for the warning. I tried the page multiple pages and it did not show up. I will try again later.

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Butterfly2510's avatar

You’re link doesn’t work.

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Jdobeck's avatar

Covid remark by Alberta leader......sees Mid-February that mandates will be removed. Strangely NY State Governor Hohcum is saying the same thing......hmmmm coincidence or did the powers to be send out their news release in preparation for joebiden’s State of the union message on March 1. Headline news: mandates lifted because we have stopped the virus!

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Butterfly2510's avatar

Until kids no longer have to wear masks, nothing is over.

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Julie's avatar

Technically they don't have to wear masks...but parents are keeping them in the schools that require them. 🙄

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Alice P. Liddell's avatar

Those parents should have to wear a mask all day in solidarity with their child. If they had to wear one all day, except for a 20 minute socially distanced lunch, the crap would cease.

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CaplT's avatar

They do in Oregon. Or at least Portland.

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Julie's avatar

My point was that as a parent, you should not be sending your child to a school that enforces masks when there is medical information out there that 1) shows children on the low end of getting/giving the virus and 2) shows masks are both useless and potentially dangerous, especially to children. I pulled my kids out of school because I could not, in good conscience, subject them to this.

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CaplT's avatar

You and I understand science. Portland parents apparently do not and are praying for baby vaxes. I know one..

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Julie's avatar

💔😢

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FedUpInOR's avatar

Until we no longer have to mask when flying, it’s also not over.

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VeryVer's avatar

This whole Plandemic feels like it's been on a schedule -- like a play -- with decisions made without any relationship to reality. Time to mask! Time for boosters! Time for mandates!

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Pearl's avatar

I think I heard that the globalists want to end the pandemic so they can move on to climate change

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Sunnydaze's avatar

GiveSendGo is overwhelmed right now. They are working through it. So many people trying to give that their system couldn’t handle it. But they will get it fixed. 💪🏻

So why in the world would a court even let a duplicate copy be counted as half of a page?? That’s ridiculous. A duplicate means NO PAGE. More game playing. Not acceptable!

The good news: At least they have to release the documents in a more timely manner (although why can’t they just dump the documents? It’s like they want time to sort through and pick out the documents that don’t expose their evil intentions and data 🤔) even if it is through growls and grinding teeth. 😂 Maybe the deadline from the court keeps them from trying to MAKE… er…. ehem….. find duplicates to produce so they don’t have to release actual truthful documentation. 🤷‍♀️

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Arlene Katerberg's avatar

How much of these docs will be blacked out??

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VeryVer's avatar

Most of it.

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Anna T's avatar

I worked in the FOIA dept of a federal agency. When the judge says, "Release!" you have to do it. Looking forward to seeing what the FDA misses in their blacking out. :)

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GoodGrief-239's avatar

It counts as half because 2 matching pages count as 2 duplicates. Not as an original and a duplicate. So 2 duplicates each count as half which would equal one page. Sounds fair to me.

Now they should also account for line spacing and pages “intentionally left blank”!

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Martha's avatar

Optimum Vitamin D is 60 ng/mL to 80 ng/mL. The following article really gets into Vitamin D and provides info on how to measure your Vitamin D level:

https://www.lewrockwell.com/2021/10/joseph-mercola/dr-mercolas-2021-biohacking-lecture/

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VeryVer's avatar

From what I've read, cholesterol is needed to make and process Vit. D as well. And for your immune system. Luckily for me I only eat cholesterol -- lol -- but I wonder if the bad outcomes for some people aren't linked to low Vit D and low cholesterol that comes from statin use etc. Many old/sick/obese people are on the cholesterol lowering drugs on top of other things.

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Julie's avatar

Statins are another evil Pharma drug--don't ever take them! There are natural ways of reducing cholesterol if you really need to.

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Sunnydaze's avatar

Yes! This! When they told me my cholesterol was high and wanted me on statins I said NOPE! I started eating 1/2 avocado a day for a few months. That was the only thing I changed. The only thing. Next blood work: oh your cholesterol is down. 😂 🤦🏼‍♀️ go figure.

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Julie's avatar

What Drs fail to understand (or even care about) is that everyone has different cholesterol because of genetics. It doesn't always have to do with an "optimum" measurable level.

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Kim's avatar

Ratio is a better indicator because of this. I mentioned that to my mother before she switched doctors. Her new doc told her that was correct and that she didn't need statins. Her old doc kept trying to push them on her.

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Martha's avatar

And Vitamin K2 and Magnesium...

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Copernicus's avatar

Such a good point!

Decades ago when people ate lard from pigs raised outside on pasture, the lard was a great source of vitamin D.

Of course we have been led to believe that animal fat is somehow lethal and man-made fat from corn and beans is better. 🙄

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VeryVer's avatar

I do believe our modern "foods" are making us sick.

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cat's avatar

Spot on ! It's outrageous how many elderly people are on statins -- cholesterol ceases to even be meaningful after a certain age. It naturally rises with age. An older book that gets into this in depth is "Good Calories, Bad Calories." Many citations and thorough explanation of the entire cholesterol-causes-heart-disease myth. It's worth a read.

Then be sure to always use a cardio risk calculator before setting foot into a doctor's office whom you suspect will try to put you on a statin. The risk result calculation may greatly surprise you. Maybe if the calculator even shows you should be on a statin, you may decide you are fine dealing with a 12% risk or whatever.

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Tardigrade's avatar

Among the elderly, low cholesterol is actually associated with more deaths than high cholesterol. Malcolm Kendrick is a great source on this.

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cat's avatar

Agree! I've got his book too and am a loyal subscriber to his emails.

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Julie's avatar

Thank you for this great reference! Personally I don't think I would ever risk taking a statin. My dad got neuropathy because of it. 😠

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Bandit's avatar

Do you mean to tell me that there are doctors out there that DON'T want to put you on statins if your cholesterol # is above 5?! (Yes, I'm being facetious about the #5.)

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Tardigrade's avatar

Then you're probably already familiar with THINCS.org.

Regardless, just because your doctor wants you to take some medication doesn't mean you have to. Something like 30% of people put on statins quit taking them within a year because of the side effects.

Oh dear… Maybe we are looking at a mandate for statins in our futures…

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cat's avatar

In theory that's true. But one time I actually had a doctor withhold my thyroid medication (which I need to keep living) because I refused a statin.

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Tardigrade's avatar

Yikes. Time for a new doctor. I'm not aware of any pharmaceutical interaction that would require both.

I suppose you could always just not get the prescription filled, but if s/he's doing blood tests for compliance…

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Bandit's avatar

Sadly, that doesn't surprise me in the least. I hope you were able to find a different doctor.

God bless you! 🙏

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Julie's avatar

That is in your face evil!!

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Julie's avatar

I didn't know about that group! Thanks for sharing.

And, "if the doctor wants you to take the drug, but you don't have to" seems a bit contradictory when the hospitals are blackmailing the unvaxxed to get the shot before they can get a transplant or treatment at all in some places.

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Tardigrade's avatar

Consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.

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Bandit's avatar

Looks like a good site! Also, there are no updates since 2018. Maybe they don't exist anymore?

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Tardigrade's avatar

There's a lot of good reading on Malcolm Kendrick's site. I highly recommend his books also. Unfortunately, there doesn't appear to be a list of archive articles but there is a search function if you scroll down a little way and look on the right-hand side (on a computer anyway, who knows how phones format it). https://drmalcolmkendrick.org

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Bandit's avatar

No, never heard of them. I will have to give them a visit. --- "They" used to allow alternate ideas to be printed BC (Before Covid.), but you did have to look hard to find them. I was "made" to take them for an extremely short time. Felt like crap! Quit. I will never take statins again. I did take one cholesterol lowering drug that didn't bother me. It wasn't a statin. It was before them. No side effects, worked ok, insurance won't allow you to take it, because "it costs too much." My doctor hates me, because I refuse most meds.

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cat's avatar

🤣

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LisaF's avatar

D Minder is a great app for learning about vitamin D availability wherever you are on the planet.

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collealle's avatar

Jeff, I work for the VA as a nurse. We are going to be told on Monday that all religious exemptions will be canceled requiring all health care staff to get immunized or get fired. As for medical exemptions you have to prove that you have had a prior anaphylactic reaction. There are no doubt many thousands of health care workers with natural immunity so out of respect for the science....oh wait...out of respect for HE THAT IS SCIENCE (and has replaced the God referred to in that once cherished and now irrelevant document called the Constitution), we will march on into the now dark oblivion that used to glow with liberty. So I guess that because there are a "hundred thousand children on ventilators" and there is no doubt that these vaccines are 'super effective' the veterans in this country will have to get along without us.

As an aside I, and I hope everyone else who participated in "gofundme" will double my contribution to the canadian truckers and NEVER again contribute through "gofundme" for anything.

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INGRID C DURDEN's avatar

I just read an article that in Switzerland they had a mass burial of children who died from the Pfizer shot. You might show that to your boss. And I wish you luck, I hope you will find another and a better job

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Julie's avatar

Any chance you could post the link to that article? I would definitely like to see and share it!

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NotaConspiracy's avatar

Is this at VA Hospitals everywhere? My daughter in law, who is also pregnant, and has an religious exemption works as a nurse at a VA in Washington. I haven't heard anything about this. Very scary!

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collealle's avatar

Yes, according to town hall meeting, they will announce this on Monday. The plan used to be to start individual interviews followed by the usual bureaucratic process...we all felt pretty safe thinking this nonsense would be over by then...but I guess they found precedent in the recent SC decision. Of course now it is purely punitive. There is absolutely no medical reason for this in anyone's equation. "protecting the veterans" I would laugh if it wasn't so terribly sad.

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Man-i's avatar

gave to givesendgo... purely punitive absolutely. in NJ the governor madated through exec order that all health care workers get boosted. I never even got jabbed. I am wrangling to get rel and med exemptiions. The state of NJ came up with a "testing " regimen and get this. for anyone unjabbed w an exemption, they have to test twice a week. Vaxxed people do not have to test. I am a doc in a private practice and I go to a surgery center to operate 1 - 2 x a month. The NJ state rules say I even I have to test twice a week to maintain my staff privileges at these facilities even if I am not scheduled to go there that week. So If I have a monday all day session of surgery once a month. it is not enought to test that AM with a rapid antigen test or a PCR a few days before, I have to have a testing regiment twice a week. I have an attorney discussing this with their legal dept. The whole thing is cosmically insane and stupid... .purely punitive fascist power politics. thats ALL it is at this point.

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collealle's avatar

I am hoping and praying that this insanity results in a massive refusal which will result in the need to fire us. I know that most of the veterans will side in support of liberty and be furious about this. During this most recent surge most of our patients were vaccinated. Most were on medical floors instead of the ICU because omicron was just milder. What happened was the staff...required to test, vaccinated or not (if they sneezed) were out sick in massive numbers. It was a ridiculous situation. My daughter who also works at VA was on the med unit talking to a Doctor who looked around the unit and sadly said ."If only people would get vaccinated". My daughter then looked at her in astonishment and said "they ARE vaccinated" thirteen out of seventeen of the patients had been fully vaccinated. The mass hypnosis is unbelievable. How on earth could she not have known that?

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Julie's avatar

I am so sorry for your situation. In the end it's the patients who suffer and the "elites" and agenda pushers don't even care! God bless you for staying strong. My prayers for all health workers in this same position.

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FedUpInOR's avatar

Yes, I have to test 3x a week to work. 2x/week if I would wear an N95 all day every day

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Debbie Alton's avatar

I am sorry that you are having to deal (to this extent) with all this evil. I want you to know, I respect you even more knowing that there are some doctors that still exist who will continue to fight and not bend to their evil ways. I will pray for you, God bless.

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INGRID C DURDEN's avatar

The VA itself is experimenting on their patients. I know this from a late friend whose husband was at the VA. Dirty hands everywhere.

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Surviving the Billionaire Wars's avatar

What you call backstabbing some of us call stealing. Gfm got so much feedback that it now says it will automatically refund all donations. So glad the truckers moved to givesendgo! Hope everybody gets their donations back!

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Alice in Wonderland's avatar

Multi-crime situation here: stealing AND backstabbing ... the whole heroic warrior effort was on a high-speed roll (as it were) and TPTB managed, by leaning on GFM, to break the momentum. Fortunately, karma will cause this to backfire on them.

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LisaF's avatar

What is TPTB?

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Alice in Wonderland's avatar

"The Powers That Be"

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¡Andrew the Great!'s avatar

I swear, every (yes, EVERY) C&C has at least one LLOLF element:

"And here you thought if you just did your part, got the jabs, slept it off, you’d be ‘fully vaccinated’ and good to go for traveling and all that stuff. Chump! Now you’d better get on the Pfizer subscription plan and have those boosters delivered to you on schedule. Hope you like spike protein."

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Harold Saive's avatar

HOW mRNA SPIKE PROTEIN INTIATES DEADLY THROMBUS (Clots) and KILLER LEUKOCYTE STORM - https://justpaste.it/1mh3z

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Paul Ashley's avatar

"Once we begin to see a sustained reduction in COVID pressure on the hospitals ..."

The definition of "sustained" is malleable, as intended. And of course this all leaves the door open for the reimposirion of whatever medically ineffective measures are deemed effective for the control of the serfs. And the excuse for it all is back to the same lame one that started this mess two years ago: we have to ruin society to make life easy for dancing hospital workers.

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VeryVer's avatar

Yeah. I just can't figure out what's going on anymore: "We have to fire hospital staff to protect hospital staff because we fired the the staff to protect the staff."

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Bandit's avatar

🙌 --- Don't forget...And complain about lack of staff. 🙄

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Jeff C's avatar

Yup, these types of weasel words are unacceptable and apparently the truckers agree as they aren't moving.

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Fla Mom's avatar

Edit: "Anyway, GSG [should read GFM] set a February 19 deadline for funders to request chargebacks"

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¡Andrew the Great!'s avatar

"made statements yesterday suggesting that he is considering rolling back mandates. “Once we begin to see a sustained reduction in COVID pressure on the hospitals, I am looking forward to being able to make decisions on relaxation on public health measures,” said Premier Kenney.

“I believe that will happen this month, in February… including the elimination of the restriction exemption or the proof of vaccination program. I just ask people to be a little more patient,” he continued."

Again, CONDITIONAL LANGUAGE. They're not rolling back the sh*t because they admit it was all worthless, useless, pointless, and manifestly destructive, ALL OF WHICH IS TRUE.

No, the elimination of exemptions or proofs or mandates or restrictions, ALL of that is on the condition that this number or that number goes down, when the movement of the numbers in EITHER direction has NOTHING to do with any of the tyrannical, despotic bullsh*t they've shoved down our throats for the past two years.

Do NOT let your guard down one iota. These tyrannical, stupid or evil (take your pick) government aholes are primed and positioned to do whatever the hell they want to do, whenever they want to do it. Until and unless they pay a steep price - whether loss of job or prison or anything similar - they are clear and present dangers to our freedoms and liberties.

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Copernicus's avatar

Thanks, yet again, for presenting the news with humor and hope. What a gift God has given to you and thereby to us.

I am in angst today and so particularly appreciated your update.

Sent to a group of physician friends a reference to the Tyson/Fareed book about their wonderful work in Imperial Valley in CA. Treating thousands of patients with a literal handful of deaths, and those only among folks who presented for treatment after 5 days or who opted to not do early treatment. I knew that sending it would be a risk. However I also believe that if drs knew about this and used it, it would revitalize their spirits and encourage them. And, I am having a very hard time staying completely silent.

One of my long time friends, a fellow Christian, who is a family doc responded saying how burned out she and others are, that it is likely their protocol worked because their population was younger (she hasn’t read the book by her own admission), that there is so much disinformation that is causing patients to refuse the injections, how she has had so many hard conversations with patients and that although drs were the heroes at the beginning, now patients are angry and distrustful.

It’s highly discouraging that such a person would essentially dismiss out of hand something she admits she has not read, would label it as alternative medicine (she hasn’t read the book), and would claim that the information is causing distrust of physicians - as though her even considering the information or my sending it out is contributing to the distrust? 🤔

Anyway, struggling with all the divisiveness that keeps showing up as a consequence of this whole mess.

These drs complain of how burned out they are - and THEY ARE!!! Yet they are offered a solution and reject it out of hand. 😞

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Queen Hotchibobo's avatar

It’s easier to fool someone than convince them they’ve been fooled. Mark Twain

I have an acquaintance who is a pulmonary care ICU doc. He absolutely vehemently opposes any information on ivermectin, hcq, or any other treatments. I really believe that his brain can’t accept it now because he would then have to acknowledge that hundreds of his patients died because he wouldn’t adopt early treatments when they were first known.

There are things your psych just can’t take and when you see yourself as a heroic life-saver, how do you survive losing that?

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Freebird's avatar

Good observation! Many (not all) doctors are absolutely arrogant and those will never admit that atrocities have been perpetrated starting with little lord Fraudci and on down the chain.

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Sim's avatar

Last time I contributed to go_F_u…. was to assist for a widow who’s husband passed. That was 10 years ago. Then, I realized how much $$$$$ that org was contributing to liberal agendas. Nope! No more!

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Bash's avatar

The EU booster mandates are just... inexplicable. Same with Blue State bullshit.

There are very significant forces at work who are just never going to let this go, ever. Too many people still think "oh it will end eventually".

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TRM's avatar

I ask people "How many shots are you going to take?" and about 1/10 says "Whatever it takes". Totally mind laundered.

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Julie's avatar

Do they realize that what they are really saying is, "Whatever it takes to kill me!" 🥺

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Paul Ashley's avatar

Yep. A neighbor of mine said he'll get as many injections as needed to allow him to vacation in what is now the third world prison planet of Europe!

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Oh Susanna's avatar

Astounding.

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VeryVer's avatar

For many people thinking literally hurts their head.

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Cathy's avatar

Jeff. Can anything be done about Go Fund Me? Can they legally do that?

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Jeff Childers's avatar

See the update. GFM has given in and will now issue automatic refunds.

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Tardigrade's avatar

I'm not a lawyer, but it just seems so wrong for them to take donated money and give it to another cause of their choosing. No matter what you may think of the original cause. Apparently a lot of people feel the same way…hence the backpedaling.

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Queen Hotchibobo's avatar

I think the $15 per transaction fee did more to change their mind than morals or ethics.

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Alice in Wonderland's avatar

no question ~ particularly since morals, like ethics, played no part whatsoever in changing their "mind"/tactics.

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