Sure that's all the people have to do. We know that, but it's not helpful. It's like saying "all the people have to do is vote for candidates who will help us rather than hurt us". People just won't, and don't do it. Look at the suicidal voting patterns in the big blue cities for the worst examples. The public is its own worst enemy, alw…
Sure that's all the people have to do. We know that, but it's not helpful. It's like saying "all the people have to do is vote for candidates who will help us rather than hurt us". People just won't, and don't do it. Look at the suicidal voting patterns in the big blue cities for the worst examples. The public is its own worst enemy, always has been. And they take the sane, decent minority along with them to hell-holes of their own creation.
You are assuming that the voting is counted as it was cast. IF there is voting fraud, then those of us who voted non blue can't do a darned thing about it unless we get into politics local, local, local and work our way up attempting to figure out where this is getting messed up. In between trying to earn a living and raise a family. Honestly, that is a lot to ask of the average person.
Not everyone knows how to work for themselves or has that capacity. Not everyone can homeschool their children. The average person has been told if you work hard, do the right things and vote for the right people, everything will turn out OK. But that only counts if there isn't a background set of people lying, cheating and stealing so that "doing the right thing" is no longer enough. Now you have to unearth those who aren't and stop them. Somehow.
It's not necessarily that people won't or don't. It might be that the will and do, but it's not working and they don't know how to make it right because it is out of their wheelhouse.
I'm assuming no such thing. Of course there is cheating, lots of it, especially since the COVID response made it easy. But if you really think our dysfunctional cities would be voting red without cheating, we'll have to disagree. Big city voters are brain-dead, mostly, and have been destroying themselves via their own voting proclivities for decades. The cities are the worst, but the voting public in general isn't up to the job. Trump would have won without cheating IMO, but if about half the voting public wasn't brain-dead the cheating wouldn't have been enough to swing it Biden's way. Same with the Senate in GA in 2022 and so many other examples. I agree with you that it's out of the wheelhouse of much of the public to make rational voting decisions. And, the "background set of people lying, cheating and stealing" has been obvious to anyone with a lick of sense for quite a while now, far pre-dating COVID. That so many don't see it, and consider it when voting, is inexcusable, and explains a lot of why we are where we are.
We have to disagree. I live in a big city in a blue state. I don't know a single person who voted blue in my district. A lot of people in the cities do know how to vote just fine. But if their votes count for nothing or are being counted as something else, it is out of the wheelhouse of most people to figure out how to fix what is broken. How does an average person prove corruption in their district, even? It can be done, but the average person does not know how.
How would anyone know if the blue states actually had voters that voted red if cheating is happening and not uncovered?
Believe what you will. My experience is different than yours.
I hope you're right and most big-city residents aren't brain-dead democrat voters (not that Republicans are good, they just aren't anywhere near as bad). I doubt it, but don't live there and you do, so ok. One question. If red voters outnumber blue voters in your town, or anywhere for that matter, why are they allowing a minority to cheat them blind? That sounds as stupid and pathetic as voting blue to me.
This is my point. The average person, red, blue or indifferent, is more honest than not. If your frame of reference is that you are honest, you believe that about others until you are proven wrong.
As an example, if 100 people vote red, but a blue person wins, the 100 voters simply assume that more than 50%of them voted blue. They don't assume cheating unless they personally know all 100 voters and how they voted. Now, is it foolish to assume no cheating? It is at this point, imo. Here is the problem, and I know I even have some of it myself. I have a job. 45-60 hour of my week gone. When my kids were younger, another 15 hours minimum gone. Paying bills maintaining vehicles, yard maintenance, etc. And there has to be some spouse time and some sleep. Even if there was time in my day, how would I prove cheating? Where would I start? Now I know to start local and work that way, but I didn't know before. Most people don't. It's not like there is a checklist of "If you suspect cheating in an election, do this". Or if someone has that list, please pass it to me.
I see where you are coming from, somewhat. I just don't see some things your way. For example, I disagree that if someone is honest, you believe that about others until proven wrong. For example, only a fool believes what people representing the government, MSM, pharma, or medical establishment say. No way does being a fundamentally honest person (nobody is totally honest, nor should be) mean you should assume the same of others. Seems dumb to me. I'm certain you can be an honest person and not be dumb at all.
You are right that proving cheating isn't easy. That's not the problem though. You can prove it and it doesn't matter. Plenty of cheating is documented in the 2020 election. I didn't ever watch "2000 Mules", or whatever that movie was, but I'm pretty sure they really nailed it down. As have plenty of others. Proving cheating changed nothing. The solution lies elsewhere. If there is one. You seem smart and seeking answers. This is just 26 pages and contains a lot of answers:
Your frame of reference is different from the average person, I'm afraid, as is mine. I learned that recently on a trip. People are not truly fools, but very often clueless. Critical thinking skills are no longer taught. And perhaps it is semantics. To me a fool is someone who knows full well the situation and does something stupid anyway. I think the average person simply believes what they are taught because they were told MSM always reports all of the news and teachers always teach facts and the govt always. wins, none of which are accurate. You have to be able to take your own knowledge and experience and look at things critically to ferret the truth of the matter. The average person just wants to live their life in peace. That doesn't make them fools, though it does make them ignorant. Ignorance can be changed, being a fool rarely can.
I am a Pollyanna.:) I believe people can be taught critical thinking skills, but they need facts. I swayed 10+ people on a recent trip when they extolled the virtues of EVs and I asked if they knew how the batteries were made and/or recycled and landfilled, how that affected the planet and what the net cost of creation use, use of fossil fuel to charge, creation of solar panels to charge use, recycling or landfill use of the solar panels used to charge them, extra wear and tear on roads due to weight, recycling and landfill use for batteries, etc. Most had just never thought of it. Most don't think of election cheating either. Or of checking what teachers taught or looking for other forms of information. That is a tide I think those of us who are critical thinkers can help turn, but only if we give others a chance to learn.
Thank you for the paper. It was an interesting read. I think people don't learn from history because there always ends up someone in charge at some point that thinks they can do it better, but narcissism is never the way to prosperity for all. JMO.
Thank you. Glad you read Glubb's piece. He just states how it works, best he can tell, no judgement or bias. A masterpiece many think, including me.
It's wonderful you are making a difference. It's rare to see, even try to see, the whole truth about things, like your EV example. Then to actually be able to get someone to listen and understand is pretty unheard of. 10+ people? You have a gift, so nice you are using it.
MSM news two days ago showed cheating in Virginia, which gave votes to Trump that should have been for Biden. That sort of news is what the other side is reading that will make them cry fowl if Trump wins.
Fine with me. Turnabout is fair play. In fact, if they're gonna cheat, which they do as much as they can possibly get away with, we must try to cheat better. Or relegate ourselves to being pathetic, wimpy losers. All same-day voting, paper ballots, no machines, no mail-ins or drop-boxes, MILITARY ONLY for absentee is what we should have. We don't. In a cheat-friendly environment, cheat or lose, simple as that. THEY made these rules.
Sure that's all the people have to do. We know that, but it's not helpful. It's like saying "all the people have to do is vote for candidates who will help us rather than hurt us". People just won't, and don't do it. Look at the suicidal voting patterns in the big blue cities for the worst examples. The public is its own worst enemy, always has been. And they take the sane, decent minority along with them to hell-holes of their own creation.
You are assuming that the voting is counted as it was cast. IF there is voting fraud, then those of us who voted non blue can't do a darned thing about it unless we get into politics local, local, local and work our way up attempting to figure out where this is getting messed up. In between trying to earn a living and raise a family. Honestly, that is a lot to ask of the average person.
Not everyone knows how to work for themselves or has that capacity. Not everyone can homeschool their children. The average person has been told if you work hard, do the right things and vote for the right people, everything will turn out OK. But that only counts if there isn't a background set of people lying, cheating and stealing so that "doing the right thing" is no longer enough. Now you have to unearth those who aren't and stop them. Somehow.
It's not necessarily that people won't or don't. It might be that the will and do, but it's not working and they don't know how to make it right because it is out of their wheelhouse.
I'm assuming no such thing. Of course there is cheating, lots of it, especially since the COVID response made it easy. But if you really think our dysfunctional cities would be voting red without cheating, we'll have to disagree. Big city voters are brain-dead, mostly, and have been destroying themselves via their own voting proclivities for decades. The cities are the worst, but the voting public in general isn't up to the job. Trump would have won without cheating IMO, but if about half the voting public wasn't brain-dead the cheating wouldn't have been enough to swing it Biden's way. Same with the Senate in GA in 2022 and so many other examples. I agree with you that it's out of the wheelhouse of much of the public to make rational voting decisions. And, the "background set of people lying, cheating and stealing" has been obvious to anyone with a lick of sense for quite a while now, far pre-dating COVID. That so many don't see it, and consider it when voting, is inexcusable, and explains a lot of why we are where we are.
We have to disagree. I live in a big city in a blue state. I don't know a single person who voted blue in my district. A lot of people in the cities do know how to vote just fine. But if their votes count for nothing or are being counted as something else, it is out of the wheelhouse of most people to figure out how to fix what is broken. How does an average person prove corruption in their district, even? It can be done, but the average person does not know how.
How would anyone know if the blue states actually had voters that voted red if cheating is happening and not uncovered?
Believe what you will. My experience is different than yours.
I hope you're right and most big-city residents aren't brain-dead democrat voters (not that Republicans are good, they just aren't anywhere near as bad). I doubt it, but don't live there and you do, so ok. One question. If red voters outnumber blue voters in your town, or anywhere for that matter, why are they allowing a minority to cheat them blind? That sounds as stupid and pathetic as voting blue to me.
This is my point. The average person, red, blue or indifferent, is more honest than not. If your frame of reference is that you are honest, you believe that about others until you are proven wrong.
As an example, if 100 people vote red, but a blue person wins, the 100 voters simply assume that more than 50%of them voted blue. They don't assume cheating unless they personally know all 100 voters and how they voted. Now, is it foolish to assume no cheating? It is at this point, imo. Here is the problem, and I know I even have some of it myself. I have a job. 45-60 hour of my week gone. When my kids were younger, another 15 hours minimum gone. Paying bills maintaining vehicles, yard maintenance, etc. And there has to be some spouse time and some sleep. Even if there was time in my day, how would I prove cheating? Where would I start? Now I know to start local and work that way, but I didn't know before. Most people don't. It's not like there is a checklist of "If you suspect cheating in an election, do this". Or if someone has that list, please pass it to me.
I see where you are coming from, somewhat. I just don't see some things your way. For example, I disagree that if someone is honest, you believe that about others until proven wrong. For example, only a fool believes what people representing the government, MSM, pharma, or medical establishment say. No way does being a fundamentally honest person (nobody is totally honest, nor should be) mean you should assume the same of others. Seems dumb to me. I'm certain you can be an honest person and not be dumb at all.
You are right that proving cheating isn't easy. That's not the problem though. You can prove it and it doesn't matter. Plenty of cheating is documented in the 2020 election. I didn't ever watch "2000 Mules", or whatever that movie was, but I'm pretty sure they really nailed it down. As have plenty of others. Proving cheating changed nothing. The solution lies elsewhere. If there is one. You seem smart and seeking answers. This is just 26 pages and contains a lot of answers:
https://people.uncw.edu/kozloffm/glubb.pdf
The outlook is poor, I'm afraid.
Your frame of reference is different from the average person, I'm afraid, as is mine. I learned that recently on a trip. People are not truly fools, but very often clueless. Critical thinking skills are no longer taught. And perhaps it is semantics. To me a fool is someone who knows full well the situation and does something stupid anyway. I think the average person simply believes what they are taught because they were told MSM always reports all of the news and teachers always teach facts and the govt always. wins, none of which are accurate. You have to be able to take your own knowledge and experience and look at things critically to ferret the truth of the matter. The average person just wants to live their life in peace. That doesn't make them fools, though it does make them ignorant. Ignorance can be changed, being a fool rarely can.
I am a Pollyanna.:) I believe people can be taught critical thinking skills, but they need facts. I swayed 10+ people on a recent trip when they extolled the virtues of EVs and I asked if they knew how the batteries were made and/or recycled and landfilled, how that affected the planet and what the net cost of creation use, use of fossil fuel to charge, creation of solar panels to charge use, recycling or landfill use of the solar panels used to charge them, extra wear and tear on roads due to weight, recycling and landfill use for batteries, etc. Most had just never thought of it. Most don't think of election cheating either. Or of checking what teachers taught or looking for other forms of information. That is a tide I think those of us who are critical thinkers can help turn, but only if we give others a chance to learn.
Thank you for the paper. It was an interesting read. I think people don't learn from history because there always ends up someone in charge at some point that thinks they can do it better, but narcissism is never the way to prosperity for all. JMO.
Thank you for the conversation.
Thank you. Glad you read Glubb's piece. He just states how it works, best he can tell, no judgement or bias. A masterpiece many think, including me.
It's wonderful you are making a difference. It's rare to see, even try to see, the whole truth about things, like your EV example. Then to actually be able to get someone to listen and understand is pretty unheard of. 10+ people? You have a gift, so nice you are using it.
MSM news two days ago showed cheating in Virginia, which gave votes to Trump that should have been for Biden. That sort of news is what the other side is reading that will make them cry fowl if Trump wins.
Fine with me. Turnabout is fair play. In fact, if they're gonna cheat, which they do as much as they can possibly get away with, we must try to cheat better. Or relegate ourselves to being pathetic, wimpy losers. All same-day voting, paper ballots, no machines, no mail-ins or drop-boxes, MILITARY ONLY for absentee is what we should have. We don't. In a cheat-friendly environment, cheat or lose, simple as that. THEY made these rules.