Hi Jeff, I wonder if I could impose on you a moment, and ask you to give some clarification on your theological position. I read here with great interest comments about why Christians should or should not support Israel, and it's clear there's a major divide amongst the faithful. Each proponent seems very, very certain they've got the co…
Hi Jeff, I wonder if I could impose on you a moment, and ask you to give some clarification on your theological position. I read here with great interest comments about why Christians should or should not support Israel, and it's clear there's a major divide amongst the faithful. Each proponent seems very, very certain they've got the correct interpretation but WHAT is the interpretation and where did it come from? I do not ask to provoke, but to represent the confused on this site as to what these cryptic statements mean. WHY is Israel bad? WHY are Christians who don't see what you see so off base? And not because you believe the Israelis are massacring innocent's, but your theological underpinnings. What are they, and who are some solid authors you can recommend I read so I can better understand your position. Thank you in advance!
I don't support either side nor do I view one side as being "correct". I simply view what's going on in light of Christ's explicit and unambiguous command that we be kind to each other. I judge Israel by it's actions, not by what some mega-church pastor claims the Bible says. I'm capable of reading the Bible (and have done so) and thinking for myself, and I cannot reconcile the actions of "God's chosen people" with Christ's teaching. It's really that simple. A country cannot kill civilians by the tens of thousands and claim to follow Christ. But of course they don't claim to follow Christ but are avowedly and proudly non-Christian.
However, we do claim to follow Christ yet we mindlessly support this non-Christian country in the indiscriminate slaughter of civilians. It makes no difference which side we think is "right" but that we are complicit in evil. Again, it's that simple. And as long as we support it, Israel will not stop it. They may not stop it even if we withdraw support but then at least we won't be active participants.
I was once a non-thinking Evangelical who enthusiastically supported Israel based on a bunch of hacked together Bible passages that I was taught meant we had to support Israel. What woke me up was the sheer brutality of Israel's actions after 10/7. I could not call myself a Christian and support obvious evil.
In answer to your question, I wrote about how I came out of the cult (IMO) of Dispensationalism here if you are interested:
Interestingly enough, I take a quite similar theological position to Jeff's, yet I end up different politically because IMO the facts show that Israel is being (relatively) reasonable in defending themselves and that the blame should be primarily on Hamas and their genocidal attempts to slaughter the Jews as commanded by (radical) Islam.
I 100% agree however that Israel does NOT get unquestioning support and is not in any way divinely justified by God to do whatever they like, and if I thought they really were doing intentional war crimes then I would be opposed to them.
Thank you for weighing in, TB. This is a subject that interests me very much, how Christians "should" view Israel and/or the Jewish people. I am what you'd probably call a classic dispensationalist, and I hold to a belief in the rapture, the coming Millennial Kingdom, etc. I'm not going to spend column inches defending myself, but will say that it's a position I think a lot about - I don't just nebulously go along. I also (for reasons I'm not going into) attend a Presbyterian church and their theology is radically different to mine as it pertains to Israel. They are sound with the gospel, so I stay because I want to know why they believe as they do. So far I have not been convinced by the "church is spiritual Israel" doctrine, but as long as we agree that Jesus Christ is Lord and Savior I hold my peace.
I think that national Israel has shown remarkable restraint. I think the claims of genocide are absurd and based on numbers provided by Israel's enemies. I believe that jews must come to God through Jesus, like everyone else. I believe it is my duty as a Christian to pray for that. I understand that Israel is currently very secular and conducts its business much as other nations do. But I believe God's got his eye on them, and when it seems like all is lost, he's going to help with a display of power that will probably make some people insane. Maybe even some who call themselves Christians.
Great. Keep studying. If you're interested, I suggest looking into Preterism (though take care that it's the orthodox variety, and not the heresy version that says that ALL prophecy is already fulfilled including the resurrection). It was eye-opening to me to discover that much of what is often seen as future prophecy is better understood as predicting 1st-century events.
Even though I don't see any specific prophecies involving Israel as a nation, I'm still on board with praying and hoping for individual Jews as well as the entire nation to turn to their Savior who, as it is written, "hold out his arms to them". Salvation through faith alone in Christ alone, y'know...
Hi Jeff, I wonder if I could impose on you a moment, and ask you to give some clarification on your theological position. I read here with great interest comments about why Christians should or should not support Israel, and it's clear there's a major divide amongst the faithful. Each proponent seems very, very certain they've got the correct interpretation but WHAT is the interpretation and where did it come from? I do not ask to provoke, but to represent the confused on this site as to what these cryptic statements mean. WHY is Israel bad? WHY are Christians who don't see what you see so off base? And not because you believe the Israelis are massacring innocent's, but your theological underpinnings. What are they, and who are some solid authors you can recommend I read so I can better understand your position. Thank you in advance!
Hi Miss Teacup, thanks for a thoughtful comment.
I don't support either side nor do I view one side as being "correct". I simply view what's going on in light of Christ's explicit and unambiguous command that we be kind to each other. I judge Israel by it's actions, not by what some mega-church pastor claims the Bible says. I'm capable of reading the Bible (and have done so) and thinking for myself, and I cannot reconcile the actions of "God's chosen people" with Christ's teaching. It's really that simple. A country cannot kill civilians by the tens of thousands and claim to follow Christ. But of course they don't claim to follow Christ but are avowedly and proudly non-Christian.
However, we do claim to follow Christ yet we mindlessly support this non-Christian country in the indiscriminate slaughter of civilians. It makes no difference which side we think is "right" but that we are complicit in evil. Again, it's that simple. And as long as we support it, Israel will not stop it. They may not stop it even if we withdraw support but then at least we won't be active participants.
I was once a non-thinking Evangelical who enthusiastically supported Israel based on a bunch of hacked together Bible passages that I was taught meant we had to support Israel. What woke me up was the sheer brutality of Israel's actions after 10/7. I could not call myself a Christian and support obvious evil.
In answer to your question, I wrote about how I came out of the cult (IMO) of Dispensationalism here if you are interested:
https://revmatthewlittlefield.substack.com/p/why-cant-many-christians-see-obvious/comment/51287697
The post I was replying to is well worth reading by an an Australian pastor, "Why can't many Christians see obvious evil?"
https://revmatthewlittlefield.substack.com/p/why-cant-many-christians-see-obvious
Thanks, I read the links. You have come more clearly into focus for me.
Interestingly enough, I take a quite similar theological position to Jeff's, yet I end up different politically because IMO the facts show that Israel is being (relatively) reasonable in defending themselves and that the blame should be primarily on Hamas and their genocidal attempts to slaughter the Jews as commanded by (radical) Islam.
I 100% agree however that Israel does NOT get unquestioning support and is not in any way divinely justified by God to do whatever they like, and if I thought they really were doing intentional war crimes then I would be opposed to them.
Thank you for weighing in, TB. This is a subject that interests me very much, how Christians "should" view Israel and/or the Jewish people. I am what you'd probably call a classic dispensationalist, and I hold to a belief in the rapture, the coming Millennial Kingdom, etc. I'm not going to spend column inches defending myself, but will say that it's a position I think a lot about - I don't just nebulously go along. I also (for reasons I'm not going into) attend a Presbyterian church and their theology is radically different to mine as it pertains to Israel. They are sound with the gospel, so I stay because I want to know why they believe as they do. So far I have not been convinced by the "church is spiritual Israel" doctrine, but as long as we agree that Jesus Christ is Lord and Savior I hold my peace.
I think that national Israel has shown remarkable restraint. I think the claims of genocide are absurd and based on numbers provided by Israel's enemies. I believe that jews must come to God through Jesus, like everyone else. I believe it is my duty as a Christian to pray for that. I understand that Israel is currently very secular and conducts its business much as other nations do. But I believe God's got his eye on them, and when it seems like all is lost, he's going to help with a display of power that will probably make some people insane. Maybe even some who call themselves Christians.
Great. Keep studying. If you're interested, I suggest looking into Preterism (though take care that it's the orthodox variety, and not the heresy version that says that ALL prophecy is already fulfilled including the resurrection). It was eye-opening to me to discover that much of what is often seen as future prophecy is better understood as predicting 1st-century events.
Even though I don't see any specific prophecies involving Israel as a nation, I'm still on board with praying and hoping for individual Jews as well as the entire nation to turn to their Savior who, as it is written, "hold out his arms to them". Salvation through faith alone in Christ alone, y'know...
Yes, I'm familiar with Preterism, thanks.