Trump has a valid point if what you mean is that he got 5.7 Million votes and DeSantis got 4.6 Million votes this year... Also, many people have since moved to FL from Blue States - DeSantis should have done better and he ran against a fake candidate who is a Cameleon...
Trump has a valid point if what you mean is that he got 5.7 Million votes and DeSantis got 4.6 Million votes this year... Also, many people have since moved to FL from Blue States - DeSantis should have done better and he ran against a fake candidate who is a Cameleon...
everyone knows that presidential elections turn out more voters. Trump will lose support on the road that he is on. He is already maxed out his following. People either love or hate him. He will lose middle of the road people if he keeps going after DeSantis for no reason. I could list 500 other republicans that are in front of DeSantis for him to worry about. If he wanted support, he should have something like this "All current republican governors should contact DeSantis and ask him for the playbook on how to make a state go deep red. He has done a fantastic job in Florida as governor"
YES!!! THIS!!! Why not maximize the voters together!! You nailed it! I cannot for the life of me understand why he would try and pick a fight with DeSantis other than ego. Put the country first. That is what his whole Presidency was about. Do not try to divide the people on this. Team up and stand together to save this country!
With the full backing and protection of the GOP branch of the Uniparty machine, with their desperate need to finish off Donald Trump, DeSantis has done a decent job in Florida as Governor. But nothing beyond what any decent human should do and with many things not sufficiently addressed, such as Florida becoming the Abortion Capital of the Southeast. And Governor being a position he first obtained, because of the endorsement he finally had to reluctantly request from Trump.
So we Trump supporters should sit down and shut up, huh? I don’t want another George W. Bush faux conservative candidate, thank you.
Do you live in Florida? "Decent"? Who did better? He made the state going from bluish-purple to solidly red and a freedom destination the world can dream about. I supported Trump with all might, but he's doing the biggest mistake nipping at Desantis.. Playing right into our enemies handbook.
He already has been. Ask yourself....why hasn't DeSantis insisted on an audit of the 2020 election in Florida? There WAS cheating here. They just couldn't get ahead of the numbers of true votes to cheat enough! Why HASN'T our Governor set the example of auditing our election process in FL????
FL has benefited from population shifts - people fleeing blue states... Working class and non-Cuban brown Hispanics will NOT vote for a white guy in a suit who is not named Trump...
Valid point or not, Trump is often his worst enemy. His narcissism is a major turnoff for loyal Conservative voters.
If we are to have any hope in the 2024 election, he should zip his lips over any criticism about Ron DeSantis. I fear his ego outweighs party loyalty or the country’s future!
He still needs to come clean on the gene therapy "vax" injuries and deaths. A very large number of folks see that as a hard line. If he's lucky, a year from now the "prosecute anyone that asked for COVID amnesty" narrative will be too great for him to keep boasting about his success with warp(ed brain) speed.
Agreed. It's a hard line for me. His ego is also a huge turnoff but could be overcome for me if not for the Warp Speed stuff. I'm on the fence atm, but it's not looking good. DeSantis has none of these issues and I am an enthusiastic fan.
(For background, I don't consider myself a Republican or even really much of a conservative, but I'm certainly also NOT a Dem-- but used to be in my youth. FWIW, there are MANY just like me that I am in online political groups with.)
Not trying to argue, just curious. When you say you are not an R what is it that holds you back? What does 'R' mean to you? I get that the national party is a joke, and that communicating what 'being a R' actually means has been terrible.
Just for reference point, I became an R in the Reagan years, as the idea of individual liberty (vs the 'collective') and smaller government and lower taxes appealed to me. I know the party has failed to deliver on those promises, both side spend like drunken sailors, but I still work for and support candidates who do hold those ideals and actually stick to them (more of them are at state and local than national though). And all of those do have an R by their name.
As a Christian who understands the truth of God’s Word I could never vote for a Democrat. They are the anti-God party of killing babies, destruction of the nuclear family, 73+ genders, pushing transgenderism and drag queens on children; in short, the party of death and destruction.
There is no simple answer to your question. Briefly, I am not a fan of the two-party system, for one thing (that would require a whole book of an explanation).
I am also very independent minded and don't really fit into any of the boxes that people like to put themselves and others into-- though I do agree with most of the R voices I am hearing these days.
Additionally, I don't have any strong feelings about the abortion issue one way or another (both "sides" make some good points imo), and the obsession that most Rs seem to have with that issue really turns me off, plus is very hard to defend against when discussing politics with my staunch D friends who may otherwise be persuaded by some of the other R points.
But your question "What does R mean to you?" is a good one. It's also one that I would love to pose to my D friends and I bet I would get a lot of answers that I would consider far from reality-based. There really are a lot of myths out there amongst Ds as to what an R actually is (I blame inane propaganda machines like Occupy Democrats in large part for that-- and the media, of course, which is just another propaganda machine, obviously). You're right that the Rs have a major communications problem, but again, that's largely due to the mainstream media.
Thank you for responding. I have been both a candidate and have volunteered and supported a boatload of candidates over the years. My first campaign I volunteered for was Ross Perot in 1992 (but in the end, it just helped get Clinton elected) so I totally understand the independent streak.
But it's an ongoing huge challenge to really understand what 'the average voter' is motivated by. Out knocking doors this season, too many people were just emotion driven vs issues driven. Like 'I can't vote for a MAGA Republican - is your candidate a MAGA person?' This was for a county office - (95% of what goes on is non partisan, but the D machine wastes huge sums of $ on patronage kind of deals where donors get big county contracts and such. ) I would say, well I don't know who she voted for in 2020 but she is in favor of ending no bid contracts, full transparency, and reforming the property tax system. Slam. Conversation over. Had another lady in a state race follow me out the door screaming at me (with her walker!) about how R's are killing people by voting against covid measures, after I told her my candidate was a R.
I think the problem with messaging is that the rank and file R party membership is truly diverse. I have been involved in our local county party committee and there are knock down drag out battles over things like the stance on abortion, gay rights, immigration, and other hot button issues. (Our party chair is openly gay, so there's that...) So yeah, diversity is held up as the holy grail these days, but too much diversity and you get lost in the weeds when you try to communicate what you stand for. Seems like going back to the basics - less government, personal responsibility, and individual liberty seems to be things we as a party can agree on, but we instead fight over everything else.
The handful of conversations I have had with sane D's at the doors (and a couple of friends who still talk to me these days) is that their support for their party is rooted in the fallacies pushed by the MSM. Trump wants to 'destroy democracy'. R's are 'election deniers' or R's are racist, xenophoic, trans phobic, etc. In other words, they define what they are 'for' by telling me what they are against.
Bottom line: it's hard to have a conversation. Period.
I don't disagree with you on any of these points and relate very much to what you're saying. People have such knee-jerk reactions these days based on baiting, half-truth or full-on-lying headlines and memes and no one even tries to understand each other if their labels are different than the ones they think they espouse.
Yesterday I had a conversation with someone who I know is VERY "anti-vax" (which in my book is a good thing!) and she told me that she, as a racial minority, could never vote R like I told her I was going to do because they are all "racist, homophobic hypocrites who want to outlaw abortion." But she hates the Dems, too, so she was telling me she voted for the Green Party.
When I told her that I could never vote Green anymore (I have in the past) because the Green Party officially advocated for mandatory vaccines and quarantines as covid strategies, she was shocked and appalled. I left it at that, because I knew that she couldn't even hear anything else I had to say (which included the fact that the R I voted for was a Black man) through her mostly-mythical anti-R vitriol. But it was sad and frustrating.
At the end of the day, I think *most* people (average voters) want to be good people who want good things for this country. And if they stopped to really hear each other, they/we may find we have more in common than not (not everything, but more than "they" want us to believe) once we get passed the divide-and-conquer soundbites (that are largely myths in the first place) that our overlords push. It's so frustrating.
well thanks for reading! I am still reeling from the losses on Tuesday, and trying to understand why +60% of voters voted for county officials who pushed lockdowns, masks and shots, have raised taxes, and just spent a huge sum of money on new offices for themselves. Lots of disdain for anyone with an R by their name.
I totally get it. Thinking about people in my circle of acquaintances who I know voted for some of these scumbag Democrats makes me so angry I can hardly contain myself. And they’re so damned self righteous on top of that. As well as ridiculously naive. Hoping that Jeff is right and we’re just chipping away little by little and will eventually win out.
Yes, and people's attention spans seem to be getting shorter all the time. My messenger is chock full of 3-5 min videos people send me of some talking head yelling about something. I send a policy paper or an essay, and crickets. I will ask, did you read it? 'Oh I don't have time for that, I will read it later'. So it's hard to have an INFORMED discussion. I do research (for business and marketing plans) for a living. I read the long documents my clients would never bother to read. The devil is so often in the details, and you don't get that in a 2 minute read or a 3 minute video.
So it's no wonder that soundbite-informed people can only parrot back those snippets as they have never stopped to really think about what got them there or whether it's where they should be. They just scroll on to the next thing on their phone.
And your vax example is perfect proof. If anyone did even a modicum of digging, they would never have gotten this thing. But social pressure was high, and so was the emotion/fear. Which impedes critical thinking.
Let's face it! The GOP is as crooked as a dog's hind leg. THEY are still calling the shots because they're still the elites. That's why they NEVER accomplish anything of substance when they get in power. They're all part of the same coin as the Dems. Trump bucks that and they hate him for that. He is sold out to seeing CITIZENS have THEIR power in this nation. DeSantis is part of the GOP. Enough said!
This has nothing to do with ego. A narcissist does not set aside all of his personal power, reputation and finances to insist that our nation be brought back to a true Republic. NO OTHER individual has ever done that. He's trying to bring out some truths that are escaping folks not digging for themselves!
When you can't afford food, or fuel, have no heat, and the crime is such that you have to stayed locked in your home, will Trump's personality really be the thing that is still of first importance to you?
He does have a valid point, mine is not about the votes, but about the chasm his post and future posts will create and that is not cool with me. We need both to work together, not separately.
That is a good point. Midterms, even hotly contested ones, generally have lower voter turnout than presidential elections so that may indeed have had an effect on the numbers.
True. Except here in our area of Florida we waited in line over two hours to vote in person. Poll workers were shocked and had never seen this kind of a turn out to vote in person. It was AWESOME! It was like that in many locations all day long.
We’ve voted two times so far in Florida and there was never any line. So we were shocked to see what was happening. Plus we were seeing the same thing at various locations around town, and hearing it had been going on all day like that. Any other time waiting in line for two hours would’ve been a drag….but not for this….and not at this time in history! We were excited to stand in line and have to wait. Because it meant people were being intentional about their voting!
Btw have you seen the final #s for Miami-Dade and Palm Beach counties? For my earlier longer post on here, I am using them as my BASELINE IDIOT estimates as the elections and voters rolls are going to be fairly clean in FL and Cubans are a unique demographic...
Trump has a valid point if what you mean is that he got 5.7 Million votes and DeSantis got 4.6 Million votes this year... Also, many people have since moved to FL from Blue States - DeSantis should have done better and he ran against a fake candidate who is a Cameleon...
everyone knows that presidential elections turn out more voters. Trump will lose support on the road that he is on. He is already maxed out his following. People either love or hate him. He will lose middle of the road people if he keeps going after DeSantis for no reason. I could list 500 other republicans that are in front of DeSantis for him to worry about. If he wanted support, he should have something like this "All current republican governors should contact DeSantis and ask him for the playbook on how to make a state go deep red. He has done a fantastic job in Florida as governor"
YES!!! THIS!!! Why not maximize the voters together!! You nailed it! I cannot for the life of me understand why he would try and pick a fight with DeSantis other than ego. Put the country first. That is what his whole Presidency was about. Do not try to divide the people on this. Team up and stand together to save this country!
With the full backing and protection of the GOP branch of the Uniparty machine, with their desperate need to finish off Donald Trump, DeSantis has done a decent job in Florida as Governor. But nothing beyond what any decent human should do and with many things not sufficiently addressed, such as Florida becoming the Abortion Capital of the Southeast. And Governor being a position he first obtained, because of the endorsement he finally had to reluctantly request from Trump.
So we Trump supporters should sit down and shut up, huh? I don’t want another George W. Bush faux conservative candidate, thank you.
Do you live in Florida? "Decent"? Who did better? He made the state going from bluish-purple to solidly red and a freedom destination the world can dream about. I supported Trump with all might, but he's doing the biggest mistake nipping at Desantis.. Playing right into our enemies handbook.
"Decent human being." That'd put him ahead of all the other likely uniparty candidates.
True but look at where we are as a country? One semi competent governor who uses moderate common sense and people are ready to anoint him President!
Exactly! They may also have something on DeSantis plus he is not rich - meaning he can be bought, blackmailed or threatened...
He already has been. Ask yourself....why hasn't DeSantis insisted on an audit of the 2020 election in Florida? There WAS cheating here. They just couldn't get ahead of the numbers of true votes to cheat enough! Why HASN'T our Governor set the example of auditing our election process in FL????
Do you live in Florida?
Oooh, I like that last line of advice to Trump. Tell the govs to contact DeSantis.
Oh that our allegedly red gov here would. But he won’t because he is actually royal blue.
Yes I love Trump BUT I love DeSantis!!! I wish Trump would just leave DeSantis alone..... It is not endearing to the rest of us
Amen, to Hollis’ comment.
FL has benefited from population shifts - people fleeing blue states... Working class and non-Cuban brown Hispanics will NOT vote for a white guy in a suit who is not named Trump...
Not a playbook that can be hijacked. But 1:1 mentoring...
Valid point or not, Trump is often his worst enemy. His narcissism is a major turnoff for loyal Conservative voters.
If we are to have any hope in the 2024 election, he should zip his lips over any criticism about Ron DeSantis. I fear his ego outweighs party loyalty or the country’s future!
He still needs to come clean on the gene therapy "vax" injuries and deaths. A very large number of folks see that as a hard line. If he's lucky, a year from now the "prosecute anyone that asked for COVID amnesty" narrative will be too great for him to keep boasting about his success with warp(ed brain) speed.
Agreed. It's a hard line for me. His ego is also a huge turnoff but could be overcome for me if not for the Warp Speed stuff. I'm on the fence atm, but it's not looking good. DeSantis has none of these issues and I am an enthusiastic fan.
(For background, I don't consider myself a Republican or even really much of a conservative, but I'm certainly also NOT a Dem-- but used to be in my youth. FWIW, there are MANY just like me that I am in online political groups with.)
Not trying to argue, just curious. When you say you are not an R what is it that holds you back? What does 'R' mean to you? I get that the national party is a joke, and that communicating what 'being a R' actually means has been terrible.
Just for reference point, I became an R in the Reagan years, as the idea of individual liberty (vs the 'collective') and smaller government and lower taxes appealed to me. I know the party has failed to deliver on those promises, both side spend like drunken sailors, but I still work for and support candidates who do hold those ideals and actually stick to them (more of them are at state and local than national though). And all of those do have an R by their name.
As a Christian who understands the truth of God’s Word I could never vote for a Democrat. They are the anti-God party of killing babies, destruction of the nuclear family, 73+ genders, pushing transgenderism and drag queens on children; in short, the party of death and destruction.
Amen!
There is no simple answer to your question. Briefly, I am not a fan of the two-party system, for one thing (that would require a whole book of an explanation).
I am also very independent minded and don't really fit into any of the boxes that people like to put themselves and others into-- though I do agree with most of the R voices I am hearing these days.
Additionally, I don't have any strong feelings about the abortion issue one way or another (both "sides" make some good points imo), and the obsession that most Rs seem to have with that issue really turns me off, plus is very hard to defend against when discussing politics with my staunch D friends who may otherwise be persuaded by some of the other R points.
But your question "What does R mean to you?" is a good one. It's also one that I would love to pose to my D friends and I bet I would get a lot of answers that I would consider far from reality-based. There really are a lot of myths out there amongst Ds as to what an R actually is (I blame inane propaganda machines like Occupy Democrats in large part for that-- and the media, of course, which is just another propaganda machine, obviously). You're right that the Rs have a major communications problem, but again, that's largely due to the mainstream media.
Thank you for responding. I have been both a candidate and have volunteered and supported a boatload of candidates over the years. My first campaign I volunteered for was Ross Perot in 1992 (but in the end, it just helped get Clinton elected) so I totally understand the independent streak.
But it's an ongoing huge challenge to really understand what 'the average voter' is motivated by. Out knocking doors this season, too many people were just emotion driven vs issues driven. Like 'I can't vote for a MAGA Republican - is your candidate a MAGA person?' This was for a county office - (95% of what goes on is non partisan, but the D machine wastes huge sums of $ on patronage kind of deals where donors get big county contracts and such. ) I would say, well I don't know who she voted for in 2020 but she is in favor of ending no bid contracts, full transparency, and reforming the property tax system. Slam. Conversation over. Had another lady in a state race follow me out the door screaming at me (with her walker!) about how R's are killing people by voting against covid measures, after I told her my candidate was a R.
I think the problem with messaging is that the rank and file R party membership is truly diverse. I have been involved in our local county party committee and there are knock down drag out battles over things like the stance on abortion, gay rights, immigration, and other hot button issues. (Our party chair is openly gay, so there's that...) So yeah, diversity is held up as the holy grail these days, but too much diversity and you get lost in the weeds when you try to communicate what you stand for. Seems like going back to the basics - less government, personal responsibility, and individual liberty seems to be things we as a party can agree on, but we instead fight over everything else.
The handful of conversations I have had with sane D's at the doors (and a couple of friends who still talk to me these days) is that their support for their party is rooted in the fallacies pushed by the MSM. Trump wants to 'destroy democracy'. R's are 'election deniers' or R's are racist, xenophoic, trans phobic, etc. In other words, they define what they are 'for' by telling me what they are against.
Bottom line: it's hard to have a conversation. Period.
I don't disagree with you on any of these points and relate very much to what you're saying. People have such knee-jerk reactions these days based on baiting, half-truth or full-on-lying headlines and memes and no one even tries to understand each other if their labels are different than the ones they think they espouse.
Yesterday I had a conversation with someone who I know is VERY "anti-vax" (which in my book is a good thing!) and she told me that she, as a racial minority, could never vote R like I told her I was going to do because they are all "racist, homophobic hypocrites who want to outlaw abortion." But she hates the Dems, too, so she was telling me she voted for the Green Party.
When I told her that I could never vote Green anymore (I have in the past) because the Green Party officially advocated for mandatory vaccines and quarantines as covid strategies, she was shocked and appalled. I left it at that, because I knew that she couldn't even hear anything else I had to say (which included the fact that the R I voted for was a Black man) through her mostly-mythical anti-R vitriol. But it was sad and frustrating.
At the end of the day, I think *most* people (average voters) want to be good people who want good things for this country. And if they stopped to really hear each other, they/we may find we have more in common than not (not everything, but more than "they" want us to believe) once we get passed the divide-and-conquer soundbites (that are largely myths in the first place) that our overlords push. It's so frustrating.
Just wanted to chime in to say, Donna and Jen, I really enjoyed reading this civil and interesting exchange of thoughts, thank you both!
well thanks for reading! I am still reeling from the losses on Tuesday, and trying to understand why +60% of voters voted for county officials who pushed lockdowns, masks and shots, have raised taxes, and just spent a huge sum of money on new offices for themselves. Lots of disdain for anyone with an R by their name.
I totally get it. Thinking about people in my circle of acquaintances who I know voted for some of these scumbag Democrats makes me so angry I can hardly contain myself. And they’re so damned self righteous on top of that. As well as ridiculously naive. Hoping that Jeff is right and we’re just chipping away little by little and will eventually win out.
Yes, and people's attention spans seem to be getting shorter all the time. My messenger is chock full of 3-5 min videos people send me of some talking head yelling about something. I send a policy paper or an essay, and crickets. I will ask, did you read it? 'Oh I don't have time for that, I will read it later'. So it's hard to have an INFORMED discussion. I do research (for business and marketing plans) for a living. I read the long documents my clients would never bother to read. The devil is so often in the details, and you don't get that in a 2 minute read or a 3 minute video.
So it's no wonder that soundbite-informed people can only parrot back those snippets as they have never stopped to really think about what got them there or whether it's where they should be. They just scroll on to the next thing on their phone.
And your vax example is perfect proof. If anyone did even a modicum of digging, they would never have gotten this thing. But social pressure was high, and so was the emotion/fear. Which impedes critical thinking.
Spot on!!
Agree 100%!
I am personally more libertarian, but that only elects liberals.
All I really want for Christmas is to cut 90% of the federal government.
Shrink it that much and the opportunity for fraud and corruption essentially vanishes.
Yes, and start with DHS and Dept of Education
Let's face it! The GOP is as crooked as a dog's hind leg. THEY are still calling the shots because they're still the elites. That's why they NEVER accomplish anything of substance when they get in power. They're all part of the same coin as the Dems. Trump bucks that and they hate him for that. He is sold out to seeing CITIZENS have THEIR power in this nation. DeSantis is part of the GOP. Enough said!
1000% agree
👆👆👆👆👆.....🎯🎯🎯🎯🎯.....
This has nothing to do with ego. A narcissist does not set aside all of his personal power, reputation and finances to insist that our nation be brought back to a true Republic. NO OTHER individual has ever done that. He's trying to bring out some truths that are escaping folks not digging for themselves!
When you can't afford food, or fuel, have no heat, and the crime is such that you have to stayed locked in your home, will Trump's personality really be the thing that is still of first importance to you?
Not at all, but his personality may tear the cohesiveness, thats needed to WIN, in 2024, apart.
Right on, Vicki!
100%
He does have a valid point, mine is not about the votes, but about the chasm his post and future posts will create and that is not cool with me. We need both to work together, not separately.
The people who run the GOP wing of the Uniparty don't want to work together with us unless it means us supporting them and their candidates...
This!
Good points. That's a yuge gap. Although it is apples to oranges, as a presidential race brings out more voters than a midterm.
That is a good point. Midterms, even hotly contested ones, generally have lower voter turnout than presidential elections so that may indeed have had an effect on the numbers.
True. Except here in our area of Florida we waited in line over two hours to vote in person. Poll workers were shocked and had never seen this kind of a turn out to vote in person. It was AWESOME! It was like that in many locations all day long.
That is amazing!! I waited in line for 1.5 hours around noon, which I thought was surprising in my state.
We’ve voted two times so far in Florida and there was never any line. So we were shocked to see what was happening. Plus we were seeing the same thing at various locations around town, and hearing it had been going on all day like that. Any other time waiting in line for two hours would’ve been a drag….but not for this….and not at this time in history! We were excited to stand in line and have to wait. Because it meant people were being intentional about their voting!
Wow. That’s nuts. I waited 20 min.
Btw have you seen the final #s for Miami-Dade and Palm Beach counties? For my earlier longer post on here, I am using them as my BASELINE IDIOT estimates as the elections and voters rolls are going to be fairly clean in FL and Cubans are a unique demographic...