I don't know, Katherine, you seem like a thoughtful and knowledgeable person of faith, but I have to second most of what Dave says here. There's no question that the Church here on earth is peopled by sinners and that, as a result, it is not a stranger to corruption. This was perhaps especially true during the era that you reference wit…
I don't know, Katherine, you seem like a thoughtful and knowledgeable person of faith, but I have to second most of what Dave says here. There's no question that the Church here on earth is peopled by sinners and that, as a result, it is not a stranger to corruption. This was perhaps especially true during the era that you reference with the Cathars, when politics and religion were more intermingled than they are today and, most importantly, what one believed was regarded as a matter of life and death, in an eternal sense. But there's a lot of modernist propaganda out there, especially about things like the inquisition and the Crusades which, when you look into good sources, turn out to be much less outrageous and more understandable when considered as features of a very different era in human development.
I cannot fathom what you refer to as the execution of "most of the female healers in Europe," incidentally. Again, this sounds like modernist propaganda. The church that Jesus started, the Catholic Church, was the originator of hospitals and orphanages staffed predominantly by women religious, and His mother has been revered as an undoer of knots and healer since the crucifixion. (If you're not familiar with them, you might want to explore the apparitions at Fatima and Lourdes, in particular, which are well verified and justify her reverence as a healer.)
Anyway, it's always important to check ourselves to make sure that our theology reflects what has come to us from on high rather than what originates within our own desires and perspectives. For example, your characterization of Jesus' teaching seems to ignore that, in addition to telling us to love one another, he called Peter Satan and said that he came "not to bring peace but a sword." Also, the religious leaders of his day were not Christians but heretics who had preached His coming for centuries but failed to recognize him when he arrived.
Most significantly, perhaps, your characterization of Christendom, aka western civilization, seems to ignore the fact that it was the Catholic Church that first denounced slavery, and it was in the Christian west that it was eradicated. This goes also for the predominant religion of most of the rest of the [pre-Christian world, human sacrifice. You correctly refer to the fact that, as the west has turned away from Christ, it has reverted to many pagan beliefs and rituals, child sacrifice being the most stark contemporary American example. And if you scan the historical landscape, you will see that it has been the atheists, e.g. the Nazis, Communists, French revolutionaries, etc. who have committed far and away the lion's share of murder, rape, and enslavement throughout human history.
I don't fault you for your views here. We are all traveling our own journey of faith, and I only began to get a clue in my early 60's, but I thought it might be helpful to pass on a bit of what I have learned, and I hope that I have done it in a kind and respectful way. In signing off, a wonderful little book comes to mind that I think might be as helpful to you as it was to me. It is a brief history of Cortes and the Aztecs by Warren Carroll called "Our Lady of Guadalupe and the Conquest of Darkness." I found it quite the eye-opener.
I think there is a huge body of history you are not taking into account.
My studies in U.S. and world history led me to asking many questions, and finally pulling original source documents, some written by those "Christians," more accurately Conquistadors, who came to the New World and engaged in the activities I described earlier.
Also the records of the "Church" in Europe in relation to the Inquisition and the Catholic/ Protestant wars.
Also the behavior of the "Church" and the Catholic reform schools and their treatment of the Native American children placed in their care.
What I am saying is that all consolidation of power by men, whether in government or official religious organizations do not behave as Jesus taught, and in fact quite often become conduits of very dark energies.
I agree with Paul when he said his war is not with flesh and blood but powers and principalities and darkness in high places.
Too often this has flowed through the churches of this world and that is not propaganda. I have read their own records.
But I do NOT argue that when a Christian, or a genuinely Christian church exists, they change, heal, and enlighten our world. I have spent a portion of my life studying various religious and ancient teachings, and when all is said and done I return to Jesus every time. He is the true Son of God because he taught Love above all else. And Forgiveness.
My frustration is that too few "Christians" actually practice what He taught.
As to Lourdes and Fatima, I and my husband have traveled to Lourdes in person. He had profound experiences there and I dearly love the entire area. God has blessed us in very many different ways and that location, it's revelations and it's water is one of those.
Fatima is fascinating and again a teaching and a prophecy we should heed, if we had wisdom. The same of the Madonna of Guadeloupe.
Man always wants his own way, and his ego makes him easy prey for very dark forces.
I started my conversation with a wish for simple, basic Christian values- to love one another, and to do unto others as you would have done unto you. I stand by that, and looking at our Nation I see only one or two, in positions of authority or influence who embody this concept, and those few are under relentless attack.
We must Stand Up with the forces of Goodness, Truth and Justice to support those who are working for a fair, free, and just world, or all that is good may die.
The so called "vaccines" are gene therapies, nano technology designed, it appears, to alter our DNA which is likely our physical antenna to the Holy Spirit, (in my personal opinion.)
Rudolph Steiner warned us that in the future belief in God, or the non-physical realm would be seen as insanity, and that a vaccine would separate us from our direct experience of our connection to God. I believe we are there. And I believe we are watching portions of the book of Revelations play out.
I wish Christianity was more available to many of lost sheep today, but I know the errors and histories of the past keep many away. For me that is a sorrow.
But there is no doubt that a genuine Christian, one who lives what Jesus taught, is the best "attractant" and hope for those lost in this world today.
I know. It's very difficult when people do not live up to our expectations, but they never do. By extension, it is our burden to accept God's plan as it is and not elevate ourselves to passing judgement on what He ought to have done or be doing.
I don't know, Katherine, you seem like a thoughtful and knowledgeable person of faith, but I have to second most of what Dave says here. There's no question that the Church here on earth is peopled by sinners and that, as a result, it is not a stranger to corruption. This was perhaps especially true during the era that you reference with the Cathars, when politics and religion were more intermingled than they are today and, most importantly, what one believed was regarded as a matter of life and death, in an eternal sense. But there's a lot of modernist propaganda out there, especially about things like the inquisition and the Crusades which, when you look into good sources, turn out to be much less outrageous and more understandable when considered as features of a very different era in human development.
I cannot fathom what you refer to as the execution of "most of the female healers in Europe," incidentally. Again, this sounds like modernist propaganda. The church that Jesus started, the Catholic Church, was the originator of hospitals and orphanages staffed predominantly by women religious, and His mother has been revered as an undoer of knots and healer since the crucifixion. (If you're not familiar with them, you might want to explore the apparitions at Fatima and Lourdes, in particular, which are well verified and justify her reverence as a healer.)
Anyway, it's always important to check ourselves to make sure that our theology reflects what has come to us from on high rather than what originates within our own desires and perspectives. For example, your characterization of Jesus' teaching seems to ignore that, in addition to telling us to love one another, he called Peter Satan and said that he came "not to bring peace but a sword." Also, the religious leaders of his day were not Christians but heretics who had preached His coming for centuries but failed to recognize him when he arrived.
Most significantly, perhaps, your characterization of Christendom, aka western civilization, seems to ignore the fact that it was the Catholic Church that first denounced slavery, and it was in the Christian west that it was eradicated. This goes also for the predominant religion of most of the rest of the [pre-Christian world, human sacrifice. You correctly refer to the fact that, as the west has turned away from Christ, it has reverted to many pagan beliefs and rituals, child sacrifice being the most stark contemporary American example. And if you scan the historical landscape, you will see that it has been the atheists, e.g. the Nazis, Communists, French revolutionaries, etc. who have committed far and away the lion's share of murder, rape, and enslavement throughout human history.
I don't fault you for your views here. We are all traveling our own journey of faith, and I only began to get a clue in my early 60's, but I thought it might be helpful to pass on a bit of what I have learned, and I hope that I have done it in a kind and respectful way. In signing off, a wonderful little book comes to mind that I think might be as helpful to you as it was to me. It is a brief history of Cortes and the Aztecs by Warren Carroll called "Our Lady of Guadalupe and the Conquest of Darkness." I found it quite the eye-opener.
I think there is a huge body of history you are not taking into account.
My studies in U.S. and world history led me to asking many questions, and finally pulling original source documents, some written by those "Christians," more accurately Conquistadors, who came to the New World and engaged in the activities I described earlier.
Also the records of the "Church" in Europe in relation to the Inquisition and the Catholic/ Protestant wars.
Also the behavior of the "Church" and the Catholic reform schools and their treatment of the Native American children placed in their care.
What I am saying is that all consolidation of power by men, whether in government or official religious organizations do not behave as Jesus taught, and in fact quite often become conduits of very dark energies.
I agree with Paul when he said his war is not with flesh and blood but powers and principalities and darkness in high places.
Too often this has flowed through the churches of this world and that is not propaganda. I have read their own records.
But I do NOT argue that when a Christian, or a genuinely Christian church exists, they change, heal, and enlighten our world. I have spent a portion of my life studying various religious and ancient teachings, and when all is said and done I return to Jesus every time. He is the true Son of God because he taught Love above all else. And Forgiveness.
My frustration is that too few "Christians" actually practice what He taught.
As to Lourdes and Fatima, I and my husband have traveled to Lourdes in person. He had profound experiences there and I dearly love the entire area. God has blessed us in very many different ways and that location, it's revelations and it's water is one of those.
Fatima is fascinating and again a teaching and a prophecy we should heed, if we had wisdom. The same of the Madonna of Guadeloupe.
Man always wants his own way, and his ego makes him easy prey for very dark forces.
I started my conversation with a wish for simple, basic Christian values- to love one another, and to do unto others as you would have done unto you. I stand by that, and looking at our Nation I see only one or two, in positions of authority or influence who embody this concept, and those few are under relentless attack.
We must Stand Up with the forces of Goodness, Truth and Justice to support those who are working for a fair, free, and just world, or all that is good may die.
The so called "vaccines" are gene therapies, nano technology designed, it appears, to alter our DNA which is likely our physical antenna to the Holy Spirit, (in my personal opinion.)
Rudolph Steiner warned us that in the future belief in God, or the non-physical realm would be seen as insanity, and that a vaccine would separate us from our direct experience of our connection to God. I believe we are there. And I believe we are watching portions of the book of Revelations play out.
I wish Christianity was more available to many of lost sheep today, but I know the errors and histories of the past keep many away. For me that is a sorrow.
But there is no doubt that a genuine Christian, one who lives what Jesus taught, is the best "attractant" and hope for those lost in this world today.
I know. It's very difficult when people do not live up to our expectations, but they never do. By extension, it is our burden to accept God's plan as it is and not elevate ourselves to passing judgement on what He ought to have done or be doing.