Making it illegal clearly did work. Rates of alcoholism, alcohol-related trauma (e.g. drunk driving), and other societal ills dropped dramatically during Prohibition. It was a stunning success in demonstrating alcohol's highly destructive impact, and how society improves when its access is limited.
That limitation wasn't perfect however, which is what you point to as not working. Yes there was organized crime trafficking of alcohol but it was still far less available than before Prohibition. When a policy leads to dramatic improvements in society, but isn't perfectly implemented, that doesn't mean it failed.
You have been fed a false narrative your entire life about Prohibition that doesn't withstand the slightest scrutiny. Prohibition may have been unpopular, but it didn't fail. It was repealed because government wanted the tax revenue they didn't get from bootlegging, and lobbying from business interests.
How about this? People are allowed to do anything they want so long as they do not egress on another person. I don't want, or need, the government, or anyone else, telling me what I an and cannot do. If I can take heroin, not steal to get it and not hurt anyone , what's the harm? We aren't junkies lying in the street, needing one of the now countless overdose packs that are placed all over the country, even this little island we are in Maine,. I don't, not won't, but we do love our beer and wine. Pay for it ourselves, feed and shelter ourselves , and hurt no one.
The crimes should be the crimes, not what caused them. Eff that. Hate crimes?? It's a crime stupid. Why do you need to double criminalize something? It's all a gimmick.
Yeah, and isn't it funny how these arguments in favor of various prohibitions sound sooooo familiar? "It's for the common good!" (cf Convid jabs) or "We CAN stop school shootings" (neverminding school shootings a miniscule percentage of gun deaths every year; i.e. the 'solution' does NOT address the common good, just the most sensational ill).
What do we do about all the people driving around drunk killing others? I mean, it's illegal to kill someone while driving drunk, but that sure doesn't stop it. What would stop it is if alcohol weren't so readily available - everywhere. It would be interesting to see if there are less drunk driver-related deaths in dry counties in the US.
I presume you are in favor of banning guns too, because people kill people with guns. And knives. And my new favorite, "smart" phones. Honest to God, I would rather be behind a drunk driver than one who is face effing his phone, because the drunk is at least trying to drive, while the phone zombie just happens to be driving while fornicating with his phone,
Sorry, but I'm not buying it. Kill someone while drunk driving. life in prison. . Kill someone with a gun. Life in prison. Kill someone while fornicating with your phone and driving. Life in prison. If you want to ban alcohol, ban guns, phones, and rank stupidity too.
FYI, a recent study has proven me out. More people are killed by phone effers driving than drunks.
If it isn't alcohol it will be something else. Take away the guns and knives or acid will be the weapon of choice. Take away the booze and there is still a veritable smorgasbord of mind-altering drugs out there. People will find a way, anyway. "weren't so readily available" is I think an idealized understanding of what would happen with a prohibition. All you have to do is look at gun violence in states with the strictest gun laws and....whole argument falls apart. People will find a way.
I'd rather tax dollars get spent on carrots, not the stick of the bureaucracy that would have to enforce such laws, as well.
EDIT: I do think legalized weed has been a disaster, and is pernicious, so my own logic is inconsistent here. I'll have to think about this more in order to make a better argument. You can ignore what I wrote, lol, for now!
That's interesting. I had never heard that prohibition was successful. It does seem that today alcohol is being pushed even within the church. I've heard stories of church leadership pushing alcohol on minors! The argument is that the Bible doesn't speak against it so we are free to do it but there is no discussion of potential addition to alcohol. The attitude is we are free to partake so why not. There are even Bible studies in bars to make it more attractive to the world. My husband has a saying, "What you win them with is what you win them to." His other saying is that people are asking the wrong questions; they want to see how close they can get to sin without crossing the line rather than asking how much can I be like Christ in my thoughts, attitudes and actions.
And that is why legalization of other substances is popular with the government...taxes. Although this hasn't worked out well in CO from what I've read. Most people are still going with the blackmarket because it's cheaper than the government regulated version. Plus, the money that must be spend on social ills far outweighs the benefit of making money through taxation. It hurts my heart to think of all the children who grow up in homes where substance abuse is a normal part of life.
Definitely true that our hearts are desperately wicked as God says in Jeremiah 17:9 . And God warns us in Galatians about using our freedom as an opportunity for the flesh.
Galatians 5:13 For you were called to freedom, brethren; only do not turn your freedom into an opportunity for the flesh...16 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh. 17 For the flesh sets its desire against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are in opposition to one another, so that you may not do the things that you please.... 19 Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, 20 idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, 21 envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. 24 Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
25 If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit.
Ephesians 5:18 And do not get drunk with wine, [a]for that is dissipation, but be filled with the Spirit,
A holistic approach has been quite successful in many cases of mental illness. Just changing one's diet to fresh and healthy foods and getting off sugar, processed foods and foods one test allergic to has turned many people around dramatically.
Many people fail to realize how dangerous alcohol is. The Salvation Army was founded on the basis of outreach to drunks. Prohibition didn't go well. People were so desperate for alcohol that in NY they were distilling furniture. Many died by their own intoxicating brews which turned out to be poisonous.
Prohibition didn't go well for a very small percentage of society addicted to alcohol. For the overwhelming majority it went just fine, in fact their lives improved.
When someone is addicted to a drug the answer is not to make it readily available so they don't do stupid things to get it.
Booze, right. No pitfalls in the most intoxicating, addictive substance in history.
I’m not a fan, but it’s not going anywhere legally. I don’t want to add anything else, though.
Booze is legal. Making it illegal didn’t work. But why legalize other destructive addictive substances just because booze is legal.
Making it illegal clearly did work. Rates of alcoholism, alcohol-related trauma (e.g. drunk driving), and other societal ills dropped dramatically during Prohibition. It was a stunning success in demonstrating alcohol's highly destructive impact, and how society improves when its access is limited.
That limitation wasn't perfect however, which is what you point to as not working. Yes there was organized crime trafficking of alcohol but it was still far less available than before Prohibition. When a policy leads to dramatic improvements in society, but isn't perfectly implemented, that doesn't mean it failed.
You have been fed a false narrative your entire life about Prohibition that doesn't withstand the slightest scrutiny. Prohibition may have been unpopular, but it didn't fail. It was repealed because government wanted the tax revenue they didn't get from bootlegging, and lobbying from business interests.
How about this? People are allowed to do anything they want so long as they do not egress on another person. I don't want, or need, the government, or anyone else, telling me what I an and cannot do. If I can take heroin, not steal to get it and not hurt anyone , what's the harm? We aren't junkies lying in the street, needing one of the now countless overdose packs that are placed all over the country, even this little island we are in Maine,. I don't, not won't, but we do love our beer and wine. Pay for it ourselves, feed and shelter ourselves , and hurt no one.
The crimes should be the crimes, not what caused them. Eff that. Hate crimes?? It's a crime stupid. Why do you need to double criminalize something? It's all a gimmick.
No nanny state. Period. No "except for this".
Yeah, and isn't it funny how these arguments in favor of various prohibitions sound sooooo familiar? "It's for the common good!" (cf Convid jabs) or "We CAN stop school shootings" (neverminding school shootings a miniscule percentage of gun deaths every year; i.e. the 'solution' does NOT address the common good, just the most sensational ill).
I agree 100%, there should be no such thing as
a victimless crime.
The same should be true for medical treatments.
If somebody wants to try chew peyote and have their Chakras realigned
to cure their migraines, they should be allowed to try it.
What do we do about all the people driving around drunk killing others? I mean, it's illegal to kill someone while driving drunk, but that sure doesn't stop it. What would stop it is if alcohol weren't so readily available - everywhere. It would be interesting to see if there are less drunk driver-related deaths in dry counties in the US.
I presume you are in favor of banning guns too, because people kill people with guns. And knives. And my new favorite, "smart" phones. Honest to God, I would rather be behind a drunk driver than one who is face effing his phone, because the drunk is at least trying to drive, while the phone zombie just happens to be driving while fornicating with his phone,
Sorry, but I'm not buying it. Kill someone while drunk driving. life in prison. . Kill someone with a gun. Life in prison. Kill someone while fornicating with your phone and driving. Life in prison. If you want to ban alcohol, ban guns, phones, and rank stupidity too.
FYI, a recent study has proven me out. More people are killed by phone effers driving than drunks.
If it isn't alcohol it will be something else. Take away the guns and knives or acid will be the weapon of choice. Take away the booze and there is still a veritable smorgasbord of mind-altering drugs out there. People will find a way, anyway. "weren't so readily available" is I think an idealized understanding of what would happen with a prohibition. All you have to do is look at gun violence in states with the strictest gun laws and....whole argument falls apart. People will find a way.
I'd rather tax dollars get spent on carrots, not the stick of the bureaucracy that would have to enforce such laws, as well.
EDIT: I do think legalized weed has been a disaster, and is pernicious, so my own logic is inconsistent here. I'll have to think about this more in order to make a better argument. You can ignore what I wrote, lol, for now!
That's interesting. I had never heard that prohibition was successful. It does seem that today alcohol is being pushed even within the church. I've heard stories of church leadership pushing alcohol on minors! The argument is that the Bible doesn't speak against it so we are free to do it but there is no discussion of potential addition to alcohol. The attitude is we are free to partake so why not. There are even Bible studies in bars to make it more attractive to the world. My husband has a saying, "What you win them with is what you win them to." His other saying is that people are asking the wrong questions; they want to see how close they can get to sin without crossing the line rather than asking how much can I be like Christ in my thoughts, attitudes and actions.
And that is why legalization of other substances is popular with the government...taxes. Although this hasn't worked out well in CO from what I've read. Most people are still going with the blackmarket because it's cheaper than the government regulated version. Plus, the money that must be spend on social ills far outweighs the benefit of making money through taxation. It hurts my heart to think of all the children who grow up in homes where substance abuse is a normal part of life.
And red state Alabama went for “medical” marijuana (yeah right; every state that legalized it recreationally started w/ the medical angle).
Now our super-majority Alabama legislature is pulling another one. Legalize gambling to regulate it & end illegal gambling.
Btw, we have laws outlawing gambling; how about enforcing those laws???
Oh wait! The Gambling industry (like the MJ Industry is passing out “incentives” to “public servants” who will make more than their salaries.
“Not what goes into the mouth defiles a man, but what comes out of the mouth; this defiles a man.” -JC
Definitely true that our hearts are desperately wicked as God says in Jeremiah 17:9 . And God warns us in Galatians about using our freedom as an opportunity for the flesh.
Galatians 5:13 For you were called to freedom, brethren; only do not turn your freedom into an opportunity for the flesh...16 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh. 17 For the flesh sets its desire against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are in opposition to one another, so that you may not do the things that you please.... 19 Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, 20 idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, 21 envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. 24 Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
25 If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit.
Ephesians 5:18 And do not get drunk with wine, [a]for that is dissipation, but be filled with the Spirit,
because when used by educated people, not nuts, it can be very helpful. and what we have IS NOT WORKING.
with anti depressants the "cure" iS ALWAYS WORSE THAN THE DISEASE> ask around, read up.
I am a therapist and have dealt with many who are DESPERATE to get off psych meds. we need alternatives.
A holistic approach has been quite successful in many cases of mental illness. Just changing one's diet to fresh and healthy foods and getting off sugar, processed foods and foods one test allergic to has turned many people around dramatically.
Many people fail to realize how dangerous alcohol is. The Salvation Army was founded on the basis of outreach to drunks. Prohibition didn't go well. People were so desperate for alcohol that in NY they were distilling furniture. Many died by their own intoxicating brews which turned out to be poisonous.
I’ve heard there is a global organization, devoted entirely to helping people stop using alcohol
Yeah I've heard that too, they all seem to be friends of a guy named Bill W. Consider him a friend myself, going on thirty five years now.
clean and sober 30 yrs, I did my trauma work, now drink wine when I feel like it. not recommending for everyone.
I DO RECOMMEND the 12 steps for EVERYONE. substance issues or not.
That sounds familiar. A pity I waited so long to become acquainted… so far so good
Prohibition didn't go well for a very small percentage of society addicted to alcohol. For the overwhelming majority it went just fine, in fact their lives improved.
When someone is addicted to a drug the answer is not to make it readily available so they don't do stupid things to get it.
The federal government literally poisoned alcohol during Prohibition killing thousands of people.
When they come for my red wine, that's when we're gonna fight!
😂😂😂