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TSumm's avatar

My youngest is fighting her own mini-war with the jab-pushers on church youth choir and missions tour this week. (In San Francisco, which I know has turned itself into an huge missions field, but I think an idiotic place to take a church youth group.) Our welcoming-and-affirming-to-all church apparently draws the line at the great unjabbed. She’s being excluded from a performance at a hospital that required proof of vax from every singer and from several missions sites. No stigmatization there! I told her to just think ahead to the day 5 to 20 years from now when she still has her fertility, hasn’t died from a stroke, and probably won’t have anything to do with most of those blue Kool-Aid drinkers anymore, but I’d appreciate your prayers this week too as she learns a big lesson about the way this world works.

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Sunnydaze's avatar

Time to give the boot to a church that would go anywhere that vax is required and exclude their own members who didn’t jab???? I would question them! They are ok with this? 🤔 And all of their youth and members going are all vaxxed? 🤔 Is your daughter standing alone in this? If so, it says enough about them too eh?

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TSumm's avatar

Oh, that day is coming — she wants to finish out senior year at the church she grew up in with her friends, which I understand. It has changed a lot since we joined 25 years ago, as has Dallas. Her wanting to be there is the only reason my husband and I haven’t left yet. Re: standing alone, not completely— I was told there would be a “handful” of others she could “hang out” with during the hospital performance. She’s literally the best singer in that choir, so they’re all missing out by excluding her.

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Sunnydaze's avatar

I understand that. Being that you’ve gone there for so long…I would suggest letting the leadership/Pastor know why you are leaving the church when you do so. 🤷‍♀️ These woke pastors need to hear how badly they missed the truth. It does no good to just stop going. They need to be face to face with the truth. IMHO.

I do hope your daughter manages to have a good experience with her friends.

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TSumm's avatar

Thank you. 💖 That is exactly what I plan to do.

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Truthseeker's avatar

I have come to see these types of situations as- God is moving your daughter away from these people and influences… and maybe if you frame it this way… she can see it as a personal blessing in her life. God has something else in store for your child.

We had this experience at our church recently. My middle school son refused to be confirmed. I was very upset by this, all my other kids were confirmed there, our extended family is all there… well during the pandemic our church became a ‘reconciling church’ - all in on the whole LGBTQ agenda… now I am very grateful that this influence is not in my child’s face, him being indoctrinated -through the church

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Jeff C's avatar

There are numerous Bible passages that condemn causing division within the church body (as opposed to calling out clear sinful behavior). Assuming it's a biblical church how can a pastor justify dividing the body into vaccinated and unvaccinated? What is his biblical authority for doing so particularly in light of the Bible's clear prohibition on doing this?

If the pastor cannot justify his actions with unambiguous scripture (compared to saying something nebulous like it's what Jesus would have wanted) then I would think that's a pretty clear sign that it's time to move on. The signs are everywhere, we need to be firmly grounded in God's Word and attending churches that uncompromisingly adhere to it.

Pastors cannot implement things that violate God's Word because it makes them feel good, they do not have that authority. I'd give him a chance to explain himself but if it doesn't pass the test of scripture then it's time to separate the wheat from the chaff.

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S.P.H.'s avatar

Good advice Jeff. End times and the apostate church, read all about it. Test as the Bereans did. If I may, work on a relationship with Jesus, then find a church that re-enforces that relationship.

I'll add one more bit of advice for everyone. Purchase Bibles, the paper kind. I prefer New King Jimmy. Once AI starts re writing scripture all truth will be lost.

Sorry for the hijack Mr. C

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AngelaK's avatar

The road to Hell is paved with the skulls of erring priests, with bishops as their signposts” – ST. JOHN CHRYSOSTOM.

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TB's avatar

Indeed. Even if the pastor genuinely and seriously believes someone is wrong and that the jabs are a good thing, there are verses clearly saying to accommodate to the "weaker" (as he sees it) brother, whose conscience does not allow them to partake (originally, of "idol meat"; today, of vaccines).

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ClarabelleVonH's avatar

I can understand that. My husband and I watched our youngest son's high school graduation on a Friday and moved out of Oregon at 7 o'clock the next morning. We practically sang all the way across the country.

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Sunnydaze's avatar

😂 😂 I remember that feeling! 🙌 🙌 What state did you land in, if you care to answer? Florida for us.

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ClarabelleVonH's avatar

Tennessee. We love it. Florida was on the list, though!

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Sunnydaze's avatar

👏 👏 Love Tennessee too! Congratulations!! What part of Oregon? We were in the Valley between Salem and Portland. Couldn’t wait to get out.

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ClarabelleVonH's avatar

Thanks! Same general area. In fact, one of the things I miss (and I can count the number of things I miss on one hand) is proximity to the wine country.

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Sunnydaze's avatar

Yes! Good wine country over there.

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JOAN FURLONG's avatar

We left New Jersey 5 years ago and made it to South Carolina. Love it here.

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Momcat's avatar

we left a denomination we went to for over 30 years because they made a hard left turn. We never regretted leaving. In fact, we found a terrific, Bible-based church north of Dallas that is a 2 Timothy 3:16-17 church. My only regret is that we didn't leave sooner.

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LiveDreamRepeat's avatar

This occurred to me while reading this thread - what if - she's strengthening relationships on this trip- ans then when she leaves the church - she encourages others to do the same? God can absolutely use her (and you too of course!) to lead others out of that confused church. ❤️

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daverkb's avatar

Please try to re-think some of this. Like ... what comes first. Glorification of God or our worldly wants? Does the end [singing] justify the means [staying in a Woke or semi-Woke Church]? And then this the example set that it is okay to 'cut corners' on matters of principle. Thus, it's not simply a matter of what 'they're all missing out on by excluding her'. It is more what you are missing out by staying stuck in the mud of bad compromise.

We have all been there where you are with things like this. Most of us have done things we are not very proud of, to say the least. And it appears to be impossible to get through life without having made bad decisions that one later regrets. And it is double, triple hard to make the hard decision trusting the Lord that better things are yet to come after having made the right difficult choice.

I wish I could have said this in a better way, but as it is ... I am not sufficient enough to do so.

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TSumm's avatar

I see where you’re coming from and if it were just me, I would have left long ago. But after everything my child’s generation has had taken from them in the name of “even one life,” I’m not willing to alienate her by forcing her to leave or skip choir tour. She’s a minor, is aware of the choice she’s making, and is s already paying a price as it is, for choices other adults in her life, including myself, are making.

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daverkb's avatar

My best wishes to you all. It is a difficult time to be living in ... and with thanks for the reply.

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Truthseeker's avatar

You said it perfectly and I agree.

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Cynda Renae's avatar

I totally get it, but maybe she would be better off not being indoctrinated by a church that bows to the enemy. I don’t know exactly where you live, but Pastor Dustin Bates of Church 1132 in Dallas area is on the board of our church here in SoCal. He actually preached at our church a few weeks ago and brought an awesome message about The Battle Beyond the Battle, when Elisha’s servant could only see in the natural and couldn’t see the armies of heaven. Our church Oceans, only closed for a short while and never closed again and have been meeting in tents ever since our governor became Dictator Newsom. The church has exploded ever since and last month we had the largest water baptism in US history. Having the pastors who aren’t afraid of man has made a huge difference in my life.

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Natalie's avatar

We left a church we had been going to for 10 years...2.5 years ago. My daughter was 15.

I understand you're wanting her to get to finish with her friends...but it's clear that the church and its influences are NOT on the sane page as you and your daughter. And you may want to reconsider the exposure to that v. Getting to have fun. Pray on it!

You would hypothetically separate her from the church if you had to move for a job right? Her morale and being influenced by people who don't share your values is much more important than a job, but not worth separation?

Momming/ dad-ing is hard these days, being a teen is even harder. Praying that no matter your decision that protection from these influences is given ! 🙏

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Sarah Dee's avatar

This situation is also teaching your daughter to stand strong in her beliefs (a very hard thing for a teenager to do). Sounds like it's building her backbone! And showing her that standing up for the right thing isn't always easy and sometimes comes with sacrifices. She's also a good example for others!

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Natalie's avatar

I agree to all that too. 🤗

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Julie Ann B's avatar

Which church is it in Dallas? I’d like to know!

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TSumm's avatar

I’d rather not say, but it has become one of the best-known “welcoming and affirming” churches in the area -- lots of media coverage for various reasons.

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Jun 20, 2023
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Jaci's avatar

Thinking daughter needs to run away from that craziness! Churches are showing their true agendas...

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Steph D's avatar

Your daughter is blessed with a wise mother!

It’s hard enough for us as adults to stand against the pressures of this weaponized empathy being thrust upon us, which is a form of psychological warfare. It’s 10x harder for young people, while their character and integrity is still being developed.

All of us as parents or adult role models need to stand strong against the propaganda for our own sake but much more for the sake of future generations.

God bless you and your family!

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Melissa S's avatar

“weaponized empathy”. What an accurate description.

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JimB's avatar

Weaponized empathy,,,,,I’m adding that to the lexicon.

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RunningLogic's avatar

Yes that is a great phrase, very apt!!

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Willing Spirit's avatar

You do sound like a great mom.

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TSumm's avatar

Thank you. I thank God for choosing me to be mom. 💖

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Turfseer's avatar

There's a new church in town. Watch CHURCH OF THE PANDEMIC MIND. https://turfseer.substack.com/p/church-of-the-pandemic-mind

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Sarah Bee's avatar

Big prayers! Tell her to stay strong & know there are plenty of hospitals outside of San Fransisco that will happily accept her !

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Boze's avatar

Wow, I and a strong, two arms full load of mRNA rejecting Christians who live here in SF would be thrilled to sing with her outside the hospital(s) she's visiting. Only problem is organizing that on the spur of the moment, but our hearts and the Holy Spirit are with her on her tour, and may the Lord somehow intervene in this upside down, exclusive ban of her participation. It is embarrassing to say the very least.

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TSumm's avatar

Thank you. 💖

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Peter Schott's avatar

Well, the hospital does set the rules, but it still seems odd that any place for missions work would require that sort of proof otherwise. However, it _is_ CA so .... But really, why would any church in TX be pushing this on their mission trips or at least not publishing those requirements up front so people can choose not to go? We were just up in OKC for our mission work, cleaning up after the tornadoes and singing - no masks, even at nursing homes (though there was a sign on one door that was just ignored by almost everyone). We toured a rehab hospital as well - no masks required, let alone experimental injections.

I get wanting to stay at the church you grew up with, but man - that's just crazy stuff, especially for a TX church.

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Donna in MO's avatar

Sadly, too many CA refugees in TX I suppose. Can't fathom why people move away from s-hole places to escape and then push the same policies that made their escape necessary from their last address. See the same thing here where our formerly solid red suburb is being infiltrated by the refugees from s-hole KC and have turned it purple on a good day. Of course I am constantly nagging my conservative friends whose activism extends to complaining on FB to get more involved, but bitching is easier.

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TSumm's avatar

Yes, we get a lot of wealthy, lefty Cali refugees or employees of CA companies that have moved here (Tesla, Toyota). The dynamic is exactly as you describe.

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Donna in MO's avatar

And they come in with CA real estate values $ and jack up the housing prices wherever they move. My sister and hubby are lonely conservatives in So Cal and I wonder if CA real estate prices are going to stay propped up long enough that when they retire in ~3 years they will be able to sell at the crazy values that still seems to be holding up at this point. Have not decided if they will stay or move, but they have friends who are happy with their exodus to TX.

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Someone Somewhere's avatar

You all would be surprised at the number of social conservatives who still live in the SoCal. Honestly, we're busy adding to our numbers by speaking truth to anyone who will listen. Just yesterday a friend got in a conversation with the gas meter reader...who left excited to have found a kindred spirit. Don't discount us. We're here and we haven't rolled over. ;)

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TSumm's avatar

Bless you all — that is a hard place to be.

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RunningLogic's avatar

That is so encouraging!!

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Donna in MO's avatar

Yes, they found some Trump rallies to attend, and there are pockets of sanity in San Bernadino county where they live. But she volunteered for the recall Newsom campaign only to see it ballot harvested into oblivion. Says if a R is ahead on election night, they always end up 'finding' more votes to defeat them days later. Our system is not perfect in MO but our elections are certified before CA even finishes counting. Local elections all counts are usually 100% of precincts reporting by the 10 PM news.

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S.P.H.'s avatar

You are absolutely correct, to steal a country you first steal the elections. Mail in ballots, dirty voter rolls and counting machines make it possible. Larry Elder probably won that election.

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Truthseeker's avatar

That’s how VT has become socialist. Wealthy NJ, CT and NY progressives moving there- ruining it for the native VTers.

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nt's avatar

I’m still in California…I visit my daughter in Boise and think the same thing!!!

Why did they leave ? 🤦‍♀️

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TSumm's avatar

Could not agree more!

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SB's avatar

Wow still? Unbelievable.

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TSumm's avatar

Yes. I’ve sent her articles for her back pocket about how the CDC and CMS aren’t even requiring it FOR CLINICAL STAFF anymore. And of course the one Jeff linked to last week about the 50K Cleveland Clinic employees who were more likely to get the ‘vid if boosted.

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Nikki (Gayle) Nicholson's avatar

California, says it all

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Lisa Ca's avatar

Its not California per se. Its the hospital

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TSumm's avatar

And some of the missions sites. It is something you’re more likely to see in CA than many other states, and I think the church should have recognized and planned better for the difficulties choosing CA for tour would present for youth and their families.

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Turfseer's avatar

$5 MILLION DOLLAR MAN. A denizen of San Francisco demands reparations for slavery. Listen to Turfseer’s latest hit song. https://turfseer.substack.com/p/5-million-dollar-man

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Annie's avatar

That church is compromised. What would Jesus do? Not what they are doing to your daughter.

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TSumm's avatar

Amen to that!

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Renee Marie's avatar

I would never let my child go to San Fransicko! I was “fired” (forced retirement) 2 years ago from The City. I refused the testing/jab after 23 years, and my bf after 17 years! I’m a 3rd generation SFer.

SF IS SODDAM AND GOMORRAH! Her angels protected her! Let her know she is in very good company with many! ✝️✝️✝️💕

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Datagal's avatar

I can sort of understand the church rules before we all knew the jabs were ineffective and unsafe. But now?! 2021 called and wants its misinformation back.

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TSumm's avatar

Yes, and I’m supposed to sacrifice my child’s health and life to support your virtue-signaling and appease your irrational fears of catching a cold? No thanks!

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RunningLogic's avatar

Well said!! Spot on.

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Johnny Be Real's avatar

There are still organizations doing this?

Leave that “church” and never give them more of your time or money.

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TSumm's avatar

That is the plan.

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Emily 🌼🌼🌼🌼🌼's avatar

Send her over to Hyde St Pier national park - my daughter is volunteering on restoring the historic sailing ships with a crew of Sea scouts - no vaccines required!

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TSumm's avatar

Wow, that’s wonderful!

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MadWorld's avatar

I pray she stays strong. Is this for COVID jabs or all jabs? I wonder if the SF hospitals and authorities are making these rules for visitors?

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TSumm's avatar

Only CV jabs. Not one single question about more relevant health issues, especially while being housed in college dorms, like meningitis and pneumonia vax, or hepatitis status. Or mono — which her assigned roommate who’s giving her a hard time actually has!

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S.P.H.'s avatar

I'll jump in again. With the massive influx of 3rd world immigrants covid is the least of the diseases to watch for. TB and polio are on the uptick. Lice, cholera, measles. I will only go to a hospital for a traumatic injury, and getting staff may kill me anyway. It sounds like your daughter will stay away from STD's, good job mom, but as Jeff mentioned, stay away from the SF festivals. I can only guess that these diseases are the penalty for the life style we are living.

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axons007's avatar

There's someone on the planet who still thinks that the vaccines work? And against variants that no longer exist ? Would having taken the original 2 shots against the ancestral & Delta variants that haven't been around for 1-1/2 years be acceptable - even though now they are outlawed ? They've lived in the world, caught Covid six times, take 2 shots and 3 boosters and ....... come to what conclusion exactly ?

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Christy's avatar

Yes, my daughter had to quit rotc in college. This is their battle.

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Karen Murphy's avatar

What? There are still places mandating the vax? What hospital?

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TSumm's avatar

Laguna Honda

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Cynthia Ford's avatar

Oh man, Laguna Honda is a snake pit. Decades ago I took a nursing assistant course through a community college in SF, and we did a rotation there. We were told we couldn't say anything or speak out when the nurses were punching the patients. I can't imagine that it's any better now. I remember a nurse who was supposed to be wearing isolation PPE to come into a room, and she winked and just lifted up her plastic apron, no doubt spreading whatever infectious disease the patient had. Can't remember now lol.

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TSumm's avatar

That is horrible. Those patients certainly need a message of love and hope, but they won’t be receiving it from my child this time around.

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Roger Beal's avatar

Let me take a wild guess. This church is Evangelical Lutheran and interprets Galatians 3:28 as endorsing homosexuality.

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