I think He did, in fact, self publish: "For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse" (Roman 1:19,20)
Then God graciously told us even more by giving us His written Word through people. This further revelation tells us about our sin problem and the only hope for forgiveness (Jesus' death for our sins) and a hope-filled future beyond this short life.
Rise and Stand - a beautiful reply to Vonu. The response from Vonu was what I expected, God is clearly working in this person's life (since they keep replying to people) regardless of their response.
Okay, I'll play along. Those to whom He "dictated" have this to say. Take heed, friend.
Romans 2:4–5 Or do you presume on the riches of his kindness and forbearance and patience, not knowing that God’s kindness is meant to lead you to repentance? 5 But because of your hard and impenitent heart you are storing up wrath for yourself on the day of wrath when God’s righteous judgment will be revealed.
2 Peter 3:8–10 But do not overlook this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 9 The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance. 10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then athe heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed.
There are literally hundreds of Biblical translations, and if you never read any one of them, you will still be held accountable for not worshipping Him and not realizing your failure to confess your unfaithfulness, as Creation has been shouting His truth since way before you were born, as at least one other poster has pointed out.
Fortunately for you, he is being patient with you as you are still here and He has not returned.
I have repented more times than most true believers, to no change in response. My creator loves his creations unconditionally. The guys that wrote the bibles did so to compel the compliance of the naive, not the gullible, who smell the rat.
See my other post/reply; repenting doesn’t do anything, unless you ask forgiveness from Christ and depend upon Him and His forgiveness alone for your salvation. He is Creator, Sustainer, Redeemer, and Lord.
Same verses from the Tyndale translation 1522-1535
Romans 2:4-5
4Ether despisest thou the riches of his goodnes paciece and longe sufferaunce? and remembrest not how that the kyndnes of God ledith the to repentaunce?
5 But thou after thyne harde herte yt canot repet heapest ye togedder the treasure of wrath agaynste the daye of vengeauce when shalbe opened ye rightewes iudgemet of god
2 Peter 3:8-10
8 Derely beloved be not ignorant of this one thynge how that one daye is wt the lorde as a thousande yeare and a thousand yeare as one daye.
9 The lorde is not slacke to fulfill his promes as some men cout slacknes: but is pacient to vs warde and wolde have no man lost but wolde receave all men to repentauce.
10 Neverthelesse ye daye of the lorde will come as a thefe in ye nyght in the which daye ye hevens shall perisshe with terrible noyes and the elemetes shall melt with heet and the erth with the workes that are therin shall burne.
Same verses from the 1560 Geneva Bible
Romans 2:4-5GNV[4] Or despisest thou the riches of his bountifulnesse, and patience, and long sufferance, not knowing that the bountifulnesse of God leadeth thee to repentance? [5] But thou, after thine hardnesse, and heart that canot repent, heapest vp as a treasure vnto thy selfe wrath against the day of wrath, and of the declaration of the iust iudgement of God,
2 Peter 3:8-10 GNV
[8] Dearely beloued, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord, as a thousande yeeres, and a thousande yeeres as one day. [9] The Lord of that promise is not slacke (as some men count slackenesse) but is pacient toward vs, and would haue no man to perish, but would all men to come to repentance. [10] But the day of the Lord will come as a thiefe in the night, in the which the heauens shall passe away with a noyse, and the elements shall melt with heate, and the earth with the workes that are therein, shalbe burnt vp.
More difficult to read and more archaic spelling. "u" = "v", "i" = "j", etc. Read it long enough, most people adapt pretty easily.
THE CREATOR OF EVERYTHING INVITES HIS CHILDREN TO PARTICIPATE IN HIS WORK, DICTATING HIS WORDS, WE WRITE THEM DOWN, PUBLISH THEM, RECITE THEM TO THOSE AROUND US... IN ESENCE WE PARTICIPATE IN HIS REDEEMING WORK... you my friend, are threading on thin ice, so I pray God's mercy on you...
The God of the universe, the God of the Bible, has chosen to use humans over and over and over to accomplish his work. And to use tangible, tactile “stuff” that he made.
He could have somehow gotten the king of Egypt to free the Israelites from their slavery, yet he chose to send the human Moses along with Moses’s brother to speak to the king. He could have made the Israelites to magically not need food in the wilderness, instead he miraculously provided manna every day for 40 years. He could have somehow made Joseph and Mary return to Bethlehem for the birth of Jesus, but instead he worked through the official decree of the Roman emperor thousands of miles away who decided it was time for a census. He could have made a list of laws and rules that man has to keep in order to be set right with God, but, knowing we could never do that, he actually chose to become man himself and to come to us when we could not come to him.
Could God have issued a book without a human instrument? Of course. He made the universe, after all. Did he choose to do that? No.
There is a lot of evidence that the Bible we have today is divinely inspired. I don’t know if you are looking for that sort of intellectual answer, or if your search is more of an emotional, relational one. Both, of course, are equally valid and important.
We have a lot of manuscript evidence with thousands of ancient manuscripts - whole books and fragments - that attest to the preservation of the original authors’ words. More manuscripts for the Bible than for any other ancient literature.
Archeological finds confirm the locations and names of many biblical places and people. Again attesting to the veracity of what was written.
There are hundreds of prophecies throughout the Bible. I think almost 400 related to the birth, life, death, and resurrection of Jesus. Written hundreds of years before he was even conceived, and not mathematically possible to be fulfilled by random chance in any one person. And yet they were. His birth place, his lineage, his unjust death. Plus there were prophecies in about the capture of Babylon by the Medes and Persians, and of the Medes and Persians by Greece.
The God of the Bible is the only God who chose to bring himself down to man so that we could know him and be with him forever.
I hope that one day you are able to experience his love and his concern for you. I know by experience that this is not always easy. There are things that happen in some of our lives that make God seem uncaring at best or worse. It’s a real struggle personally for me. Yet, as G.K. Chesterton said, “man wants to turn from God, but in heaven’s name, to what?”
I don't know if it has a name because it is a non-material non-locality composed of spiritual energy. I call it Jesus because my humanity wants a label and the historical record of Jesus Christ seems solid enough to assume that he was a human incarnation for it.
Also, it seems significant that it is your humanity that desires a label (something tangible), and that it is Jesus - the one and only God who became human - who is the name that you most closely with your understanding of God. *This* precisely is, in fact, why Jesus came: to be for us a human face of God. “If you have seen me, you have seen the Father,” he said.
So what do you do with the historical record of Jesus’ life, his death, and particularly his resurrection? Again, serious question.
C.S. Lewis said that Jesus was either Lord, liar, or lunatic. Lord, if he was indeed who he claimed to be. Liar, if he claimed to be God and wasn’t; and who wants to follow a liar. Lunatic if he knew he was lying yet was willing to die the most torturous death that he did.
What do you do with the historical accounts of Jesus’ sayings, in which he was identified as creator of the universe (The Gospel of John, chapter 1)?
The God of the universe is a person, 3 persons, actually, but I’ll leave that aside for now. He has revealed Himself as Father(male, He, El Shadi who created the universe through His Son, the Word, who the Father sent into the world to save it and such men who by his own Sovereign grace would come to believe and accept that free gift of Grace, and God the Father confirmed that this was true in many ways, but ultimately by raising Him from the dead and then sending the 3rd person of the Trinity to spiritually inhabit believers, guiding them to the Truth.
Much more May be said, but there is no warrant for calling God the Father ‘it’ and to the extent that you do you are creating your own god , and that is blasphemy.
If it were truly God's Word, why didn't he self publish it?
Thanks Vonu, I can respect that question.
I think He did, in fact, self publish: "For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse" (Roman 1:19,20)
Then God graciously told us even more by giving us His written Word through people. This further revelation tells us about our sin problem and the only hope for forgiveness (Jesus' death for our sins) and a hope-filled future beyond this short life.
Rise and Stand - a beautiful reply to Vonu. The response from Vonu was what I expected, God is clearly working in this person's life (since they keep replying to people) regardless of their response.
If he had, we'd have printed, bound books instead of scrolls.
Fun fact: Christians popularized the 'codex' (bound book), and made printed bibles as soon as the printing press was invented.
Gutenberg had to be born first.
Are you suggesting that you would only believe in God if Christians had popularized the printing press BEFORE it was invented?
I would only believe in God if he'd left a printed, bound record of his laws before Gutenberg was born.
Well, I mean, that's awfully specific, but... fair, that WOULD be one miraculous way to demonstrate divine intervention.
In my experience, divine intervention has always been very specific.
Hmm... I guess so, but not usually in a way that can be called out specifically in advance. Unless you're a prophet for an alternate timeline...
He did self-publish it. It's called general revelation.
He had nothing to with publishing it. At most, he dictated it to those who published it.
Okay, I'll play along. Those to whom He "dictated" have this to say. Take heed, friend.
Romans 2:4–5 Or do you presume on the riches of his kindness and forbearance and patience, not knowing that God’s kindness is meant to lead you to repentance? 5 But because of your hard and impenitent heart you are storing up wrath for yourself on the day of wrath when God’s righteous judgment will be revealed.
2 Peter 3:8–10 But do not overlook this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 9 The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance. 10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then athe heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed.
It is called the King James Version because King James paid for its publication.
Where is God's Version?
There are literally hundreds of Biblical translations, and if you never read any one of them, you will still be held accountable for not worshipping Him and not realizing your failure to confess your unfaithfulness, as Creation has been shouting His truth since way before you were born, as at least one other poster has pointed out.
Fortunately for you, he is being patient with you as you are still here and He has not returned.
You still have time to repent.
Kindly provide the list of a hundred of them.
I have repented more times than most true believers, to no change in response. My creator loves his creations unconditionally. The guys that wrote the bibles did so to compel the compliance of the naive, not the gullible, who smell the rat.
See my other post/reply; repenting doesn’t do anything, unless you ask forgiveness from Christ and depend upon Him and His forgiveness alone for your salvation. He is Creator, Sustainer, Redeemer, and Lord.
Same verses from the Tyndale translation 1522-1535
Romans 2:4-5
4Ether despisest thou the riches of his goodnes paciece and longe sufferaunce? and remembrest not how that the kyndnes of God ledith the to repentaunce?
5 But thou after thyne harde herte yt canot repet heapest ye togedder the treasure of wrath agaynste the daye of vengeauce when shalbe opened ye rightewes iudgemet of god
2 Peter 3:8-10
8 Derely beloved be not ignorant of this one thynge how that one daye is wt the lorde as a thousande yeare and a thousand yeare as one daye.
9 The lorde is not slacke to fulfill his promes as some men cout slacknes: but is pacient to vs warde and wolde have no man lost but wolde receave all men to repentauce.
10 Neverthelesse ye daye of the lorde will come as a thefe in ye nyght in the which daye ye hevens shall perisshe with terrible noyes and the elemetes shall melt with heet and the erth with the workes that are therin shall burne.
Same verses from the 1560 Geneva Bible
Romans 2:4-5GNV[4] Or despisest thou the riches of his bountifulnesse, and patience, and long sufferance, not knowing that the bountifulnesse of God leadeth thee to repentance? [5] But thou, after thine hardnesse, and heart that canot repent, heapest vp as a treasure vnto thy selfe wrath against the day of wrath, and of the declaration of the iust iudgement of God,
2 Peter 3:8-10 GNV
[8] Dearely beloued, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord, as a thousande yeeres, and a thousande yeeres as one day. [9] The Lord of that promise is not slacke (as some men count slackenesse) but is pacient toward vs, and would haue no man to perish, but would all men to come to repentance. [10] But the day of the Lord will come as a thiefe in the night, in the which the heauens shall passe away with a noyse, and the elements shall melt with heate, and the earth with the workes that are therein, shalbe burnt vp.
More difficult to read and more archaic spelling. "u" = "v", "i" = "j", etc. Read it long enough, most people adapt pretty easily.
Adaptation is a form of indoctrination.
Give it a rest!
Whenever you are ready, since I'm following your lead.
Are you saying that the creator of everything was too lazy to publish his own writing?
THE CREATOR OF EVERYTHING INVITES HIS CHILDREN TO PARTICIPATE IN HIS WORK, DICTATING HIS WORDS, WE WRITE THEM DOWN, PUBLISH THEM, RECITE THEM TO THOSE AROUND US... IN ESENCE WE PARTICIPATE IN HIS REDEEMING WORK... you my friend, are threading on thin ice, so I pray God's mercy on you...
Maybe he gave you the ability to shout because you were deficient in reasoning.
maybe He made you a cynic cuz that's all you are good at......
You don't seem very concerned to me.
General revelation is what we can know about God *without* the Bible. Special revelation is the Bible.
Good question.
The God of the universe, the God of the Bible, has chosen to use humans over and over and over to accomplish his work. And to use tangible, tactile “stuff” that he made.
He could have somehow gotten the king of Egypt to free the Israelites from their slavery, yet he chose to send the human Moses along with Moses’s brother to speak to the king. He could have made the Israelites to magically not need food in the wilderness, instead he miraculously provided manna every day for 40 years. He could have somehow made Joseph and Mary return to Bethlehem for the birth of Jesus, but instead he worked through the official decree of the Roman emperor thousands of miles away who decided it was time for a census. He could have made a list of laws and rules that man has to keep in order to be set right with God, but, knowing we could never do that, he actually chose to become man himself and to come to us when we could not come to him.
Could God have issued a book without a human instrument? Of course. He made the universe, after all. Did he choose to do that? No.
There is a lot of evidence that the Bible we have today is divinely inspired. I don’t know if you are looking for that sort of intellectual answer, or if your search is more of an emotional, relational one. Both, of course, are equally valid and important.
We have a lot of manuscript evidence with thousands of ancient manuscripts - whole books and fragments - that attest to the preservation of the original authors’ words. More manuscripts for the Bible than for any other ancient literature.
Archeological finds confirm the locations and names of many biblical places and people. Again attesting to the veracity of what was written.
There are hundreds of prophecies throughout the Bible. I think almost 400 related to the birth, life, death, and resurrection of Jesus. Written hundreds of years before he was even conceived, and not mathematically possible to be fulfilled by random chance in any one person. And yet they were. His birth place, his lineage, his unjust death. Plus there were prophecies in about the capture of Babylon by the Medes and Persians, and of the Medes and Persians by Greece.
The God of the Bible is the only God who chose to bring himself down to man so that we could know him and be with him forever.
I hope that one day you are able to experience his love and his concern for you. I know by experience that this is not always easy. There are things that happen in some of our lives that make God seem uncaring at best or worse. It’s a real struggle personally for me. Yet, as G.K. Chesterton said, “man wants to turn from God, but in heaven’s name, to what?”
The God of the Bible was created by the men who made up the bible.
My creator made them like it made me.
Who is your creator, if I may ask? How did he make himself known to mankind? Sincerely asking.
I don't know if it has a name because it is a non-material non-locality composed of spiritual energy. I call it Jesus because my humanity wants a label and the historical record of Jesus Christ seems solid enough to assume that he was a human incarnation for it.
Also, it seems significant that it is your humanity that desires a label (something tangible), and that it is Jesus - the one and only God who became human - who is the name that you most closely with your understanding of God. *This* precisely is, in fact, why Jesus came: to be for us a human face of God. “If you have seen me, you have seen the Father,” he said.
I will be ignoring all future rude sermons.
So what do you do with the historical record of Jesus’ life, his death, and particularly his resurrection? Again, serious question.
C.S. Lewis said that Jesus was either Lord, liar, or lunatic. Lord, if he was indeed who he claimed to be. Liar, if he claimed to be God and wasn’t; and who wants to follow a liar. Lunatic if he knew he was lying yet was willing to die the most torturous death that he did.
What do you do with the historical accounts of Jesus’ sayings, in which he was identified as creator of the universe (The Gospel of John, chapter 1)?
I do the same thing with all well-documented historical records.
The bible is not a well-documented historical record since it has been transliterated and translated into mush.
The God of the universe is a person, 3 persons, actually, but I’ll leave that aside for now. He has revealed Himself as Father(male, He, El Shadi who created the universe through His Son, the Word, who the Father sent into the world to save it and such men who by his own Sovereign grace would come to believe and accept that free gift of Grace, and God the Father confirmed that this was true in many ways, but ultimately by raising Him from the dead and then sending the 3rd person of the Trinity to spiritually inhabit believers, guiding them to the Truth.
Much more May be said, but there is no warrant for calling God the Father ‘it’ and to the extent that you do you are creating your own god , and that is blasphemy.
Vonu- Read that aloud and see if it sounds as absurd as it reads.
Who is denying divinity now?