Wow... I'm blown away by your sympathy for civilian casualties. I wonder where they could flee to. They are pinned between Israel on one side and the sea on the other. Maybe they can swim.
Second point, even though unlimited warfare against civilians is a tactic employed by the USG, deliberately targeting civilian populations is immoral.
Wow... I'm blown away by your sympathy for civilian casualties. I wonder where they could flee to. They are pinned between Israel on one side and the sea on the other. Maybe they can swim.
Second point, even though unlimited warfare against civilians is a tactic employed by the USG, deliberately targeting civilian populations is immoral.
Third point, Israeli defense was deliberately stood down even though they had ample knowledge of the attack well ahead of time. Holiday leave is a cover story.
The Hamas leadership has even stated that they were surprised by how effective their strike was; far beyond anything they anticipated. On the flipside, I'm honestly shocked that we did not/do not see Israeli civilians grabbing guns and fighting back when militants invaded. I get that there is a dumb and arbitrary limit of (50 rounds?) per person imposed by the government, but even that would have been substantial when citizens combined their defense. Israelis are a tough people and I find it hard to fathom how so many would just run and cover their heads or lay down and be taken hostage (not saying all did). There is definitely more to this story and a lot of media psyops in play.
CAM, like our own citizens, who have largely forgotten what citizenship actually is, they have contracted out their self-defense, very unlike what they did at their origin.
I spent time there among both civilians and military back in the 90's, which is why I find it hard to believe that their views would change in this matter.
Having spent our entire lives it the U.S. (barring deployments and stationing overseas), my husband and I were shocked to find our fellow Americans turned into a huge flock of obedient sheep in COVID, but apparently our "educational" system, along with the "entertainment" industry and "journalism," did their work well, after the long march.
A lot of people were yelling about the restrictions, making their best arguments that they made no sense and filing lawsuits, but for people to risk their freedom and lives the restrictions generally have to be worse than what we faced.
Worse than being forced to choose between your job - and for many losing their job means also not buying groceries and losing the place where you live, because they live paycheck to paycheck or have limited savings, so basically to choose between their entire material existence - and taking an experimental injection? What kind of a choice is that?! Maybe you were fortunate not to be faced with that decision, but many were not. Do you know how liberty is lost? By people saying, "well, maybe if it gets bad the next time, I might do something." Read or listen to what all the former victims of communism have been telling Americans since at least the 1990s - they've seen it coming here for that long. We're *way* down the line, but so many can't yet see it.
Not surprised at all. The lefty government holding on by ts fingertips with a shaky coalition made private gun and ammo ownership harder. Ever more citizens from the Jewish sects with the highest birth rates decline to join the military claiming rabbi and other exempted statuses willing to let others be their protectors. Not like Switzerland which is armed to the teeth with almost every able bodied male citizen serving their army and army reserve with a military gun at home, a package of ammunition, and regularly drilling to be ready to fight any crazy invaders.
So after I posted this yesterday, I continued digging around and see that there were in fact a handful of articles highlighting pockets of civilian resistance and success. More articles are appearing this morning and obviously I'm not the only person who was questioning this.
Unfortunately, the articles lend even more support to my point that it makes little sense for the Israeli government to disarm their citizens the way they have. It was foolhardy and demonstrates an amazing lack of competence on the part of government officials. One of the primary excuses was due to "theft" of weapons. Perhaps if homeowners were allowed to shoot the thieves that wouldn't be an issue... The fact that civilians armed with pistols were able to fend off militants until IDF support arrived shows that an armed populace would have resulted in a very different outcome for any militant incursions. I'll be curious to see if the emergency measures taken to arm people now will stand, or will they attempt to round up all the guns again next year.
They were allowing far more to be armed up until the program to pull them from citizens beginning about 3 years ago. There are numerous civilian security teams, especially in border areas, that also had their firearms confiscated. Now, the government is scrambling to re-arm them by the thousands.
I have great sympathy for the civilians among whom certain bad actors mingle, and from which locations they launch attacks, so that when the opposing force must attack the position in self-defense, civilians are killed and then paraded around. I have great sympathy for any civilians kidnapped, tortured, and/or killed in this attack by Hamas. There's a law of war for many horrible reasons, Phil, all written in blood. I'm not saying one side is clean as the driven snow, and I know that in asymmetrical warfare the lesser military power has to resort to unconventional tactics and strategy, but I do think that one side does what I described above, purposely hiding among civilians, more than the other side, and regardless of asymmetry it's immoral. Do the Egyptians have no sympathy? Pretty sure there's a land border there. Why do you think evacuations are only possible by land? Could Muslim countries not send ships or planes or helicopters or whatever if they wanted to? They could, but they do not want to, nor apparently have they ever wanted to. Do you criticize their lack of sympathy?
Gaza is controlled by Hamas who is backed by Iran. So what purpose does the attack serve? Does it in any way advance the Palestinian cause? No. It advances an agenda that serves the same cabal that controls the Bolshevik regime here in the US and the regime in Israel. Biden needs another war and the Israeli state wants Gaza. If a "few" Palestinians are killed in the process, no one cares. American premil Christians shrug it off as this is all ordained in God's plan for the "end times". The TV coverage of the slaughter carried out by the terrorists gives Israel the perfect excuse to begin blanket bombing of the Gaza strip turning the civilian population into homeless refugees and allowing Israel to simply move in and take possession of the land. The immediate payoff is the gas fields that lie on the Gaza coast and the elimination of the "Palestinian problem". About the same way the USG handled the "Indian problem" after the Civil War. I could be wrong. We'll have to watch and see. The big winner will be Blackrock who owns the companies that will develop the gas fields.
Oh, and guess who is the largest owner of Blackrock? Rothschild family and company.....War has been a profitable business for them for the past couple of centuries.
You asked “Does it in any way advance the Palestinian cause?”
But you have to ask, what exactly IS the Palestinian cause? Is it statehood and peaceful coexistence with Israel as you seem to imply? (though it is possible I may have misinterpreted that, if so, apologies). It seems to me their cause is not eventual peaceful coexistence but killing and harming as many Israelis as possible. And ultimately obliterating the country and its people. Past statements and actions seem to support this more than the living side by side in peace theory.
I'll try to bring several diverse points together here. For terrorist organizations like Hamas, you are correct. Their goal is the destruction of the Israeli state and people. For the average Palestinian family, they are like you and me. They just want to be left alone to live their lives and support their families. It's a lot like comparing BLM or Antifa to the American black community. They have the same desires that you and I do. BLM does not represent the average black American.
The problem we have is that we have literally been programmed since WWII to view the political state of Israel with some kind of holy exceptionalism. Even American Christians have been conditioned by their premillennial eschatology to view the political state call Israel as some kind of holy reincarnated version of Biblical Israel that cannot be criticized. Since WWII, the American public has continuously received only one very slanted, unrealistic portrayal of Israel. Even our national politics are heavily influenced by the Israeli lobby.
At the close of WWII, Operation Paperclip brought Nazism, which is just another iteration of Marxism, to America, specifically into the USG. Marxism then began the "long march through the institutions". When the German Jews left Europe at the close of the war, they did not escape Nazism. Nazism followed them and infected the Israeli State. Our fellow C&Cer, Daverkb, made a comment that is applicable here. (Apologies Dave)
"I was thinking how alike the Master Race of the North and the Master Race of the Mediterranean are so much alike. Both like Marxist drama and put on a most excellent show. Both always receive Last Place in any truth telling contest. Both will loot at the drop of a hat anything not nailed down. Both never demur at a lives it takes to accomplish any meritorious goal of gain. Only the languages and uniforms are different."
Now here's my point. Given the control Israel has always had over the opinions of Americans, Israel has always had the full backing, financial and military, of the USG. As a result, she has NEVER had to compromise with the Palestinians and has ALWAYS taken a hard line with them as well as with her neighbors. She never felt the need to find a way to incorporate the Palestinian population into their society and accommodate them. She treated them as outcasts and undesirables with no means for them to become a part of their society. Israel has had every opportunity and ability to do this for 70 years and failed to even attempt an accommodation. This is exactly the same way the USG treated the American Indians after the Civil War. As a result, American Indians still live on reservations in conditions that are deplorable. And that is because, just like Israel and the Palestinians, the state views these people as deplorables.
Now you may have noticed that until this terrorist attack occurred Israel and Saudi Arabia were close to coming to agreement on a peace treaty. Can you imagine? A peace treaty between Israel and one of the leading Arab states! Well that couldn't be allowed to stand. The cabal and their Marxist client state in the USG must have constant warfare. So O'biden pays Iran, who is Hamas' state sponsor, $6 billion of OUR money to green light a terrorist attack on Israel which will kill the peace treaty effort. Furthermore, the Marxist elements of the Israeli state want the Gaza territory and they want to finally get rid of the "Palestinian problem" for good. The terrorist attack is planned with maximum media coverage of the slaughter and the Israeli defense forces are stood down to allow the terrorist attack to achieve maximum effect thus providing the perfect excuse to lay waste to Gaza turning the Palestinian population into war refugees and allowing Israel to simply walk in and take over the land.
You said the average Palestinian family just wants to be left alone and live their lives. I don’t get the impression that Palestinians all want to live their lives and let others live theirs. Why did they elect Hamas? Why support the group that doesn’t want to recognize Israel’s right to exist and encourages suicide bombings? I get the sense, based on actions and words, that many have a lot of hatred for Israel. You might say it’s justified based on what they’ve lived through, but that still carries a lot of implications for potential peace. I do think that as with BLM they are being manipulated and used by those with power and influence.
I am not one of those that thinks Israel is pure and holy and can do no wrong. They have certainly gone overboard in some cases and exacerbated the problems. However, they have also always been subject to all kinds of criticism and scrutiny by the international community. Even a large number of Americans are not only not supporters of Israel, but criticize and malign them regardless of what they do. All while making excuses for the Palestinians, regardless of what *they* do. Israel is surrounded by countries that look upon it as the enemy and most of those would be only too glad to see it disappear from the earth. That is a fact. How can that not affect their perspective and choices?
I think it’s important to take into consideration the historical context too. Israel has been attacked and invaded numerous times in the past. They constantly have to be on their guard. They’ve tried to have peace agreements but those never last. There is certainly complexity as to the political goings on in the country and different factions wanting different things. I don’t doubt there are some who do want to just go in scorched earth and take over everything in Gaza. I can see both sides of the grievances but I don’t see any solution unless both sides agree to start fresh and move beyond what’s happened in the past but they won’t. It’s been over 70 years and the same rhetoric and the same kinds of actions and reactions keep getting repeated 😕
You’re right, there are too many who benefit from not having peace in that region and so of course this latest peace attempt has again been sabotaged. And yes, the 6 billion dollars imo surely played a part in all of this. The timing is certainly suspect.
I have read that the Palestinians are actually refugees from the wars Israel has had to fight with the surrounding Arab countries. Those Arab countries do not want them back for some reason. Accounts of the 6 Day War (immediately following the establishment of modern day Israel) and the Yom Kippur War of 1973 are fascinating. God is very much still involved with Israel. Wikipedia requires filtering, but still can provide a framework for understanding what has transpired.
If you support the Palestinians, you’re in good company with all the radicals of the Left and the Marxist Universities that churn them out. So congratulations.
History say that the Gaza Strip was owned and controlled by the Ottoman Empire until the early 1900's when it became a British colony. When the British declared Israel an independent country in 1948 they got the Gaza Strip. Ottomans were all muslims so thus the muslims living in the Gaza Strip became Israeli citizens which they hated and they never wanted to be a part of. They were happy being Ottomans. Muslims hate Jews which goes back to the curse of Canaan. (Genesis 9)
Correct, but the all arab nations are first the descendants of Noah's son Ham through Canaan who was cursed to serve his brothers and then Ishmael was given roughly the same curse again.
'The angel of the Lord also said to her (Hagar): “You are now pregnant and you will give birth to a son. You shall name him Ishmael, for the Lord has heard of your misery. He will be a wild donkey of a man; his hand will be against everyone and everyone’s hand against him, and he will live in hostility toward all his brothers.” ' - Genesis 16:11-12
My understanding is that Sarah, tired of waiting for a child, went over God's will and gave her Egyptian slave Hagar to Abraham. The Egyptians were descendants of Canaan therefore the curse followed in Hagar's bloodline. But becasue of God's blessing to Abraham and his descendents God could not destroy the free will of Sarah and Abrahman. Thus the gigantic pickle the world is in with the cursed Cannites still fighting against the Shemites (Shem 's descendents) and the Japhites (Japheth's descendents).
The Muslim hatred Jews goes back to the prophet Mohammed trying not very successfully to convert the Jewish tribes in the area, and then blasting hatred of them in the Koran.
I am fascinated by the history of Israel, including the Gaza Strip. And of course it had history and owners prior to the Ottoman Empire. The Bible tells us this piece of ground is loved by God, as is no other place on earth. I often meditate on why that would be.
I believe it to be the actual place where the Garden of Eden was first located on planet earth. That makes the earth (the dirt) very special in God's eyes as He made His first human from that dirt. He will tell us when we get there. I'll meet you at that history/science study group! :)
Always the Stand Down. Even with so many school 'shootings'. We saw this locally in nearby Charlottesville ... the Old Stand Down. And all the proxy actors bused in.
Wow... I'm blown away by your sympathy for civilian casualties. I wonder where they could flee to. They are pinned between Israel on one side and the sea on the other. Maybe they can swim.
Second point, even though unlimited warfare against civilians is a tactic employed by the USG, deliberately targeting civilian populations is immoral.
Third point, Israeli defense was deliberately stood down even though they had ample knowledge of the attack well ahead of time. Holiday leave is a cover story.
The Hamas leadership has even stated that they were surprised by how effective their strike was; far beyond anything they anticipated. On the flipside, I'm honestly shocked that we did not/do not see Israeli civilians grabbing guns and fighting back when militants invaded. I get that there is a dumb and arbitrary limit of (50 rounds?) per person imposed by the government, but even that would have been substantial when citizens combined their defense. Israelis are a tough people and I find it hard to fathom how so many would just run and cover their heads or lay down and be taken hostage (not saying all did). There is definitely more to this story and a lot of media psyops in play.
CAM, like our own citizens, who have largely forgotten what citizenship actually is, they have contracted out their self-defense, very unlike what they did at their origin.
I spent time there among both civilians and military back in the 90's, which is why I find it hard to believe that their views would change in this matter.
Having spent our entire lives it the U.S. (barring deployments and stationing overseas), my husband and I were shocked to find our fellow Americans turned into a huge flock of obedient sheep in COVID, but apparently our "educational" system, along with the "entertainment" industry and "journalism," did their work well, after the long march.
A lot of people were yelling about the restrictions, making their best arguments that they made no sense and filing lawsuits, but for people to risk their freedom and lives the restrictions generally have to be worse than what we faced.
Worse than being forced to choose between your job - and for many losing their job means also not buying groceries and losing the place where you live, because they live paycheck to paycheck or have limited savings, so basically to choose between their entire material existence - and taking an experimental injection? What kind of a choice is that?! Maybe you were fortunate not to be faced with that decision, but many were not. Do you know how liberty is lost? By people saying, "well, maybe if it gets bad the next time, I might do something." Read or listen to what all the former victims of communism have been telling Americans since at least the 1990s - they've seen it coming here for that long. We're *way* down the line, but so many can't yet see it.
Not surprised at all. The lefty government holding on by ts fingertips with a shaky coalition made private gun and ammo ownership harder. Ever more citizens from the Jewish sects with the highest birth rates decline to join the military claiming rabbi and other exempted statuses willing to let others be their protectors. Not like Switzerland which is armed to the teeth with almost every able bodied male citizen serving their army and army reserve with a military gun at home, a package of ammunition, and regularly drilling to be ready to fight any crazy invaders.
Agree lots of psy-ops are going on especially once I saw this analysis of 2 Netanyahu speeches: https://www.bitchute.com/video/pYPabQBIedtu/
So after I posted this yesterday, I continued digging around and see that there were in fact a handful of articles highlighting pockets of civilian resistance and success. More articles are appearing this morning and obviously I'm not the only person who was questioning this.
Unfortunately, the articles lend even more support to my point that it makes little sense for the Israeli government to disarm their citizens the way they have. It was foolhardy and demonstrates an amazing lack of competence on the part of government officials. One of the primary excuses was due to "theft" of weapons. Perhaps if homeowners were allowed to shoot the thieves that wouldn't be an issue... The fact that civilians armed with pistols were able to fend off militants until IDF support arrived shows that an armed populace would have resulted in a very different outcome for any militant incursions. I'll be curious to see if the emergency measures taken to arm people now will stand, or will they attempt to round up all the guns again next year.
Isreal has had strict gun laws since 1949 and less than 3% of the population carry firearms. Israeli Civilians basically have no right to bear arms.
https://www.algemeiner.com/2023/02/27/firearm-licensing-in-israel-how-strict-are-the-jewish-states-gun-laws/
They were allowing far more to be armed up until the program to pull them from citizens beginning about 3 years ago. There are numerous civilian security teams, especially in border areas, that also had their firearms confiscated. Now, the government is scrambling to re-arm them by the thousands.
I have great sympathy for the civilians among whom certain bad actors mingle, and from which locations they launch attacks, so that when the opposing force must attack the position in self-defense, civilians are killed and then paraded around. I have great sympathy for any civilians kidnapped, tortured, and/or killed in this attack by Hamas. There's a law of war for many horrible reasons, Phil, all written in blood. I'm not saying one side is clean as the driven snow, and I know that in asymmetrical warfare the lesser military power has to resort to unconventional tactics and strategy, but I do think that one side does what I described above, purposely hiding among civilians, more than the other side, and regardless of asymmetry it's immoral. Do the Egyptians have no sympathy? Pretty sure there's a land border there. Why do you think evacuations are only possible by land? Could Muslim countries not send ships or planes or helicopters or whatever if they wanted to? They could, but they do not want to, nor apparently have they ever wanted to. Do you criticize their lack of sympathy?
Gaza is controlled by Hamas who is backed by Iran. So what purpose does the attack serve? Does it in any way advance the Palestinian cause? No. It advances an agenda that serves the same cabal that controls the Bolshevik regime here in the US and the regime in Israel. Biden needs another war and the Israeli state wants Gaza. If a "few" Palestinians are killed in the process, no one cares. American premil Christians shrug it off as this is all ordained in God's plan for the "end times". The TV coverage of the slaughter carried out by the terrorists gives Israel the perfect excuse to begin blanket bombing of the Gaza strip turning the civilian population into homeless refugees and allowing Israel to simply move in and take possession of the land. The immediate payoff is the gas fields that lie on the Gaza coast and the elimination of the "Palestinian problem". About the same way the USG handled the "Indian problem" after the Civil War. I could be wrong. We'll have to watch and see. The big winner will be Blackrock who owns the companies that will develop the gas fields.
Oh, and guess who is the largest owner of Blackrock? Rothschild family and company.....War has been a profitable business for them for the past couple of centuries.
You asked “Does it in any way advance the Palestinian cause?”
But you have to ask, what exactly IS the Palestinian cause? Is it statehood and peaceful coexistence with Israel as you seem to imply? (though it is possible I may have misinterpreted that, if so, apologies). It seems to me their cause is not eventual peaceful coexistence but killing and harming as many Israelis as possible. And ultimately obliterating the country and its people. Past statements and actions seem to support this more than the living side by side in peace theory.
I'll try to bring several diverse points together here. For terrorist organizations like Hamas, you are correct. Their goal is the destruction of the Israeli state and people. For the average Palestinian family, they are like you and me. They just want to be left alone to live their lives and support their families. It's a lot like comparing BLM or Antifa to the American black community. They have the same desires that you and I do. BLM does not represent the average black American.
The problem we have is that we have literally been programmed since WWII to view the political state of Israel with some kind of holy exceptionalism. Even American Christians have been conditioned by their premillennial eschatology to view the political state call Israel as some kind of holy reincarnated version of Biblical Israel that cannot be criticized. Since WWII, the American public has continuously received only one very slanted, unrealistic portrayal of Israel. Even our national politics are heavily influenced by the Israeli lobby.
At the close of WWII, Operation Paperclip brought Nazism, which is just another iteration of Marxism, to America, specifically into the USG. Marxism then began the "long march through the institutions". When the German Jews left Europe at the close of the war, they did not escape Nazism. Nazism followed them and infected the Israeli State. Our fellow C&Cer, Daverkb, made a comment that is applicable here. (Apologies Dave)
"I was thinking how alike the Master Race of the North and the Master Race of the Mediterranean are so much alike. Both like Marxist drama and put on a most excellent show. Both always receive Last Place in any truth telling contest. Both will loot at the drop of a hat anything not nailed down. Both never demur at a lives it takes to accomplish any meritorious goal of gain. Only the languages and uniforms are different."
Now here's my point. Given the control Israel has always had over the opinions of Americans, Israel has always had the full backing, financial and military, of the USG. As a result, she has NEVER had to compromise with the Palestinians and has ALWAYS taken a hard line with them as well as with her neighbors. She never felt the need to find a way to incorporate the Palestinian population into their society and accommodate them. She treated them as outcasts and undesirables with no means for them to become a part of their society. Israel has had every opportunity and ability to do this for 70 years and failed to even attempt an accommodation. This is exactly the same way the USG treated the American Indians after the Civil War. As a result, American Indians still live on reservations in conditions that are deplorable. And that is because, just like Israel and the Palestinians, the state views these people as deplorables.
Now you may have noticed that until this terrorist attack occurred Israel and Saudi Arabia were close to coming to agreement on a peace treaty. Can you imagine? A peace treaty between Israel and one of the leading Arab states! Well that couldn't be allowed to stand. The cabal and their Marxist client state in the USG must have constant warfare. So O'biden pays Iran, who is Hamas' state sponsor, $6 billion of OUR money to green light a terrorist attack on Israel which will kill the peace treaty effort. Furthermore, the Marxist elements of the Israeli state want the Gaza territory and they want to finally get rid of the "Palestinian problem" for good. The terrorist attack is planned with maximum media coverage of the slaughter and the Israeli defense forces are stood down to allow the terrorist attack to achieve maximum effect thus providing the perfect excuse to lay waste to Gaza turning the Palestinian population into war refugees and allowing Israel to simply walk in and take over the land.
You said the average Palestinian family just wants to be left alone and live their lives. I don’t get the impression that Palestinians all want to live their lives and let others live theirs. Why did they elect Hamas? Why support the group that doesn’t want to recognize Israel’s right to exist and encourages suicide bombings? I get the sense, based on actions and words, that many have a lot of hatred for Israel. You might say it’s justified based on what they’ve lived through, but that still carries a lot of implications for potential peace. I do think that as with BLM they are being manipulated and used by those with power and influence.
I am not one of those that thinks Israel is pure and holy and can do no wrong. They have certainly gone overboard in some cases and exacerbated the problems. However, they have also always been subject to all kinds of criticism and scrutiny by the international community. Even a large number of Americans are not only not supporters of Israel, but criticize and malign them regardless of what they do. All while making excuses for the Palestinians, regardless of what *they* do. Israel is surrounded by countries that look upon it as the enemy and most of those would be only too glad to see it disappear from the earth. That is a fact. How can that not affect their perspective and choices?
I think it’s important to take into consideration the historical context too. Israel has been attacked and invaded numerous times in the past. They constantly have to be on their guard. They’ve tried to have peace agreements but those never last. There is certainly complexity as to the political goings on in the country and different factions wanting different things. I don’t doubt there are some who do want to just go in scorched earth and take over everything in Gaza. I can see both sides of the grievances but I don’t see any solution unless both sides agree to start fresh and move beyond what’s happened in the past but they won’t. It’s been over 70 years and the same rhetoric and the same kinds of actions and reactions keep getting repeated 😕
You’re right, there are too many who benefit from not having peace in that region and so of course this latest peace attempt has again been sabotaged. And yes, the 6 billion dollars imo surely played a part in all of this. The timing is certainly suspect.
Sorry that is a little disorganized and stream of consciousness but I don’t have the time to do better than that 😜
Well, we all know "elections" are not really elections.
You think most Palestinians are not pro Hamas and wouldn’t have voted for them, then?
Great response.
I have read that the Palestinians are actually refugees from the wars Israel has had to fight with the surrounding Arab countries. Those Arab countries do not want them back for some reason. Accounts of the 6 Day War (immediately following the establishment of modern day Israel) and the Yom Kippur War of 1973 are fascinating. God is very much still involved with Israel. Wikipedia requires filtering, but still can provide a framework for understanding what has transpired.
If you support the Palestinians, you’re in good company with all the radicals of the Left and the Marxist Universities that churn them out. So congratulations.
History say that the Gaza Strip was owned and controlled by the Ottoman Empire until the early 1900's when it became a British colony. When the British declared Israel an independent country in 1948 they got the Gaza Strip. Ottomans were all muslims so thus the muslims living in the Gaza Strip became Israeli citizens which they hated and they never wanted to be a part of. They were happy being Ottomans. Muslims hate Jews which goes back to the curse of Canaan. (Genesis 9)
Muslims consider themselves descendants of Ishmael, Abraham's son by Hagar, if I remember right.
Correct, but the all arab nations are first the descendants of Noah's son Ham through Canaan who was cursed to serve his brothers and then Ishmael was given roughly the same curse again.
'The angel of the Lord also said to her (Hagar): “You are now pregnant and you will give birth to a son. You shall name him Ishmael, for the Lord has heard of your misery. He will be a wild donkey of a man; his hand will be against everyone and everyone’s hand against him, and he will live in hostility toward all his brothers.” ' - Genesis 16:11-12
My understanding is that Sarah, tired of waiting for a child, went over God's will and gave her Egyptian slave Hagar to Abraham. The Egyptians were descendants of Canaan therefore the curse followed in Hagar's bloodline. But becasue of God's blessing to Abraham and his descendents God could not destroy the free will of Sarah and Abrahman. Thus the gigantic pickle the world is in with the cursed Cannites still fighting against the Shemites (Shem 's descendents) and the Japhites (Japheth's descendents).
Here was one other thing I thought you might like to read when you have time.
https://christiancourier.com/articles/ishmael-his-hand-against-every-man
The Muslim hatred Jews goes back to the prophet Mohammed trying not very successfully to convert the Jewish tribes in the area, and then blasting hatred of them in the Koran.
I am fascinated by the history of Israel, including the Gaza Strip. And of course it had history and owners prior to the Ottoman Empire. The Bible tells us this piece of ground is loved by God, as is no other place on earth. I often meditate on why that would be.
I believe it to be the actual place where the Garden of Eden was first located on planet earth. That makes the earth (the dirt) very special in God's eyes as He made His first human from that dirt. He will tell us when we get there. I'll meet you at that history/science study group! :)
Lovely! I look forward to it.
Always the Stand Down. Even with so many school 'shootings'. We saw this locally in nearby Charlottesville ... the Old Stand Down. And all the proxy actors bused in.
They were advised to exit via Egypt. But for some reason Egypt doesn’t want them.
And there’s this;
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2023/10/hamas-issues-statement-gaza-residents-following-warning-impending/