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Sam's avatar

BS. Putin named 3 goals for the SMO.

De-Nazi Ukraine.

Demilitarize Ukraine.

Reinstate NATO’s borders back to where they were in 1991.

That’s it. Everything you said is just made up nonsense. Where did you get your information? You can still find his speech online and see for yourself what he said.

He was ready to sign the peace agreement with Zelensky and to show good faith he withdrew his troops from Kiev. And then there were the 2 Minsk agreements that Putin signed with Merkle and Hollande who recently admitted that they only signed them to give Ukraine the chance to be militarized. And don’t forget that it was Obama’s coup that started the war.

How can so many people be so ignorant of facts?

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Politico Phil's avatar

Because they are not "ignorant" (though I reserve the right to call them morons). They are deceivers and they wouldn't know truth if they tripped over it.

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The Great Santini's avatar

(1) I read the speech at the time of his 2nd invasion of Ukraine in February 2022. (The 1st was in 2014.) English translation. Long winded but clear. (2) Didn’t bother to keep a copy as I didn’t plan to argue with revisionist historians. (3) Yes. Putin’s immediate objective was to ‘de-Nazify Ukraine’. That’s shorthand for conquer Ukraine. Strange that de-Nazification involves the removal of a Jewish political leader whose forebears fought in the Red Army, but I digress. Putin’s further ambitions were to destroy NATO and roll over the Balts and the Poles. After the Ukrainians gave him a rather impressive beat down, he did claim that he only wanted to keep NATO out of Ukraine, etc. But that was an obvious lie to disarm the gullible. (4) If anybody believed what you have said the Balts, the Poles, the Swedes and the Finns would all be ‘whatever’. Instead they are arming up, joining NATO, supporting Ukraine, etc. Wonder why that would be going on if anybody believed Putin had the limited objectives you claim. (5) If you want a historical precedent to ponder, consider Hitler’s absorption of Austria (“they’re really Germans”), then the Sudetenland (“hey they’re Germans too”), then all of Czechoslovakia (“it was just there; we’ll stop now; peace in our time”) and finally Poland, and the 1939 to 1945 War Games also known as World War II. That little shindig cost my family a couple of dead and twice as many wounded. I don’t have to wonder what the survivors thought about that situation. One and all they said, “we should have stopped that SOB in Austria”. And yes, those were the words they used sitting around the kitchen table, especially when thinking of their siblings who were no longer there. (6) I’m willing to stipulate that the current Administration has been fouling this up by the numbers, literally from Day One. I’m further willing to stipulate that they are undoubtedly corrupt and probably diverting US Gov’t funds into their pockets. But that doesn’t make Putin a nice guy with limited objectives and reasonable demands. Nor does it mean that the Ukrainians are undeserving of our support. Nor does it mean that if Ukraine falls that it will stop there, Putin’s claims notwithstanding. In fact, almost certainly the opposite.

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WP William's avatar

Putin's designs are also cemented to aligning with Syria and Iran (and Huthis etc) and any others he can intimidate and threaten. So even without direct military conflict, those resisting the Neo-Russian Sphere will be targeted, destabilized, infiltrated, hacked, nudged as able. His pro-traditionalist masking and double-talking only gets traction as the West descends headlong into frivolous hedonism and unravels--he is interested in touting his 'heroism" to those of us in the West that are sickened by the prolific overtness of Globalistic Deep State, NeoCon, and Obamanistic policies and push to adulterate our freedoms, culture, historical legacy, and institutions. Putin is only helped by our division in holding him at bay and our cultural-societal suicide into a depraved and ineffectual mass of selfish mush.

It's curious how the Obama-Biden courting of Iran could in theory be used to unhinge the Russian hold there--but that's likely just a Deep-State Wet Dream and we're just being played by them just as it looks like. As a people and a nation We need to wake the F up and take back our foreign policy and entanglements--the professional class elitists and specialists like to make it appear that we moralistic, treaty-averse idiots would only screw things up...what grade would one give US Foreign policy 2001-2023?, 1991-23? 1973-23?, 1944-23? 1917-23? 1898-23? A debate worth having anyway--Carry Out OUR Policy or you're fired, defunded, and discredited. 20% of Americans want our troops to fight Russians on Ukraine soil? That idiocy is leverage to Deep-Staters and we, the collective ADULTS in the electorate and population of VALID Citizenry need to assert our role and expel such Dumb-Assery from any consideration.

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Sam's avatar

Putin didn’t ‘invade' Crimea because he already had a naval base there for years. And the people were allowed to vote on whether they wanted to be Russians or Ukrainian and they voted to be Russian. The vote was witnessed by many voting rights groups including Jimmy Carter and it was fair and square.

Putin had every right to defend the base. Think that he would let America take over the base just over the sea from Russia? Think America would let Russia overthrow Mexico’s government and install weapons that could reach Washington in less time?

And yes WHEN Ukraine fails Russia will not go on to conquer more countries. The only people who say that is his plan are ignorant neocons who have long held hatred for Putin because he stopped them stealing everything not nailed down after the USSR collapsed. And ignorant people who believe the neocons.

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The Great Santini's avatar

Yes he did. In 2014. Prior to that the Naval Base was Ukrainian.

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