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ASK's avatar

Just a friendly warning, if your doctor uses Quest, don’t sign a new document that says you will pay for tests that may not be covered by insurance. They are doing this for tests that they have a contracted rate with insurance companies (like bc/bs) of $0 (or potentially less than they want reimbursed). They code it as having a signed waiver and then bill you for the test, even when your insurance says you owe $0. Most people probably don’t dig far enough down and pay the bill. This is an unethical scam they’ve got going. Beware.

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Jeff C's avatar

Thanks for pointing this out.

When a medical service provider agrees to become part of an insurance network, they also agree to charge only the contracted rate that service provider has negotiated. That's a benefit of using an "in network" provider. (It's not the case for an out of network provider that you reimburse.) That's the deal, service providers cannot charge you more and be part of the plan. In fact on my insurance company EOBs it shows the contracted price and plainly states "your provider should not charge you any more than what is allowed".

Not only should you not pay it, but you should file a complaint with the insurance carrier if "in network" providers are pulling this stunt.

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nancylee's avatar

or better yet - quit going to drs. quit taking tests designed to convince you that this pill or that procedure is necessary. have you not yet learned that the whole industry is a scam?

update: the whole rockefeller model, ama strong armed, insurance skimming industry. they do ok body work ie. set bones. the answer (see below) is personal pro active responsibility ie. food and exercise.

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Jeff C's avatar

I agree in general but saying "the whole industry is a scam" is over the top. There's nothing wrong with getting one's blood work done and trending it over time. In fact, more people should do it, as they'd find out much sooner they are on the road to diabetes. What's wrong is thinking a pill will fix things rather than getting some exercise and eating real food (instead of processed garbage).

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Pat Wetzel's avatar

There is a place for medicine. Hip replacements for eg. But I am personally leery of anything that offers a drug as the answer. Many stories to tell there, but a recent one is high blood pressure. "Drugs! You need drugs!" they all chirped. Instead, I went to a naturopath and using herbs, celery (a natural diuretic ) and getting more consistent with exercise and voila! Normal blood pressure once again.

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Kalinda's avatar

As a personal opinion based on the people I happen to know, there are more hip and knee replacement that go wrong either immediately or in less than 3 years than people realize. Most of these are classed as "successful" (because the patient didn't die? Because they can walk, but in excruciating pain? I don't know, but it doesn't feel like a "success" to them). I, also personally, took my advanced arthritis to mild arthritis in my hip, which I was told was impossible. My point being, be wary of EVERYTHING and do your own research. Just because a person who could afford a degree in medicine says something is so, that does not mean it is so, or that they were top of their class.

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Rosalind McGill's avatar

I see an integrative medicine doctor, he gave me quality of life again after years of neglect and gaslighting by insurance dictated disability doctors. I am dependent on thyroid hormone medication, so I’m not ditching the entire system. I have to pay out of pocket for the office visits, he works with my insurance.

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Peter GL's avatar

my father used to avoid doctors: he said they just want to start testing and treating everything they can think of just to milk you. He lived to be 90

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carily myers's avatar

My mom's 97, she doesn't go to DRs for shit. She's healthy, articulate, works 3 days a week. Doesn't trust em, never has.

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Peter GL's avatar

God bless her. Make sure you ask her about things relating to the family tree and take notes. Both me and my wife are kicking ourselves now for not having done that while we could. You might also want to tape her answers, so you can have her live.

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Concerned mom's avatar

My father in law feels the same way. Hates having to go to the doctor. Same kind of thinking: if you give them a chance, they'll find something or invent it... He is presently 101!

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Catherine's avatar

Food is medicine. But there is no money to be made if we eat real food. When I say real food, I mean grass fed beef and butter, pasture raised chickens, organic fruits and vegetables, etc. People need to wake up and realized that the SAD is making them sick. Seed oils and sugar are poison.

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nancylee's avatar

and there you have it. no need for bloodwork if you get plenty of exercise and eat real food. you'll get a lot of your exercise trying to find real food.

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carily myers's avatar

lol. true

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Fre'd Bennett, MAHA's avatar

Anyone can easily avoid Type 2 diabetes: stop eating sugar.

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Kalinda's avatar

Way too limited. It's not the sugar, specifically. It's the foods you eat that convert to glucose to burn. If you are a long distance runner every day, eat what you want, you'll burn it off. If not, a calorie is not a calorie. Who here thinks if you only eat 800 calories of pasta a day, you'll lose weight or keep your blood sugar level? It's not sugar, after all. But a simple carb calorie is not a complex carb calorie is not a fat calorie is not a protein calorie. Each body reacts differently to each of these and to different foods within each of those (honey is not like high fructose corn syrup, don't let anyone tell you different)

Very little is "easy". Most things are varying levels of complicated. Find what works for your own body (the generic you), and start there. I know my good place is Protein and veggie carbs. But that doesn't make it "easy".

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Fre'd Bennett, MAHA's avatar

True, but in general., avoiding "sugar" (simple carbs) is a great start.

You're absolutely correct - 800 cals of pasta is not the same as 800 cals of protein and fat. Calories are not the cause of diabetes. Prolonged over consumption of insulin raising food is, because diabetes is caused by insulin resistance.

As you probably know, certain foods are highly insulin stimulating, e.g. sugar, fructose, certain starchy carbs.

The medical establishment starts from an incorrect assumption, in that high blood glucose (sugar) is due to insufficient insulin production. So they prescribe more insulin.

But treating insulin resistance by adding more insulin assures that the patient will get even more insulin resistant.

What most lay persons don't know is that everytime you eat, your body immediately stops burning calories, and starts storing fat due to the body's production of insulin hormone.

Some foods are worse (more stimulating than others.)

I eat a very low carbohydrate diet, with meals well-spaced out in order to let my insulin levels fall between meals.

Exercise is great because it can burn the glucose in your blood, which eventually decreased your insulin resistance.

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Concerned mom's avatar

Jeff, did you know that in the early 1900's cholesterol levels were fine at around 300 but then, no one then needed statin drugs, thus the industry lowered the "acceptable levels" to the 100's and voila! now half the world needs statin meds! Our bodies need and make cholesterol for many functions, including our brain functions. Since these changes, more and more ppl have Alzheimer's and it's connected to the lowering of their cholesterol...??? hmmm

So why go get blood work done to enable them to "treat" you for something that's not broken?

My husband's cholesterol levels were deemed "high" by their standards, even though he's a marathon runner, eats fairly well, and is always training or running a marathon. When he agreed to go on statin drugs, within a week, he looked jaundiced, had an unhealthy coloring to his face. His liver was going haywire! And the doctor suggested another medication to counter that...

Thank God we came upon this knowledge and he stopped taking their poison!

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ASK's avatar

Depends on the doctor you have and also doing your own research, advocating for yourself and not always doing what they tell you to do. Having autoimmune thyroid is one very good reason to go because it is in my best interest that I stay healthy. But I have turned down meds/treatments that I believed were not in my best interest. Like the poison Covid vax.

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Margaret Allison's avatar

A reasonable answer ASK! People need to think. Ask questions and dig deep for your answers. For me, all these new blood thinners is a “hoot”! I’m on a thyroid medication because I had a real problem back in 1997. By the way, runs in the family genes! 2013....cholesterol levels up....problem? Weight! Refused medication and lost weight. In a year, all was back down under control. Now they say we need cholesterol! So take control of your health. I think this was a wake up call for the medical field especially those who care. Nothing wrong with getting a second opinion and changing Drs if need be. 45 years a working RN and we never quit thinking medical!

Thanks for the good post today!! By the way, a lot of medical journals are very liberal thinking. I don’t subscribe!

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Mrs. Mantle's avatar

Every nurse I know says they don’t go to doctors!

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Fre'd Bennett, MAHA's avatar

Including the one I'm married to.

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Stacy's avatar

This one doesn’t, either. 😉

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carily myers's avatar

Agree. Haven't seen a DR in over 10 yrs. If I break a bone-OK That's it.

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Concerned mom's avatar

Nancylee, Yes, it is a Scam! From the moment we are born, with their myriads of jabs. They've sickened us, they've caused our bodies, or minds to start breaking down much sooner than intended...and then they want to "treat" us for the rest of our lives!

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Fre'd Bennett, MAHA's avatar

BINGO. WE HAVE A WINNER!!!!

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Starsky's avatar

This has happened to me repeatedly. My last dermatologist required full payment before I even went back to see the doctor. When I pushed back and told them they were charging $165 when my insurance would only cover $68, they shrugged and said they would reimburse me. Of course, that never happened.

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Ryan Gardner's avatar

There's a reason the first thing you do is fill out insurance paperwork when you go to hospitals/doctors.

That's the only thing they have to "think" about now.

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carily myers's avatar

Agree. I got whacked on my Harley by a pickup. Got airlifted by helo to MUSC (medical university of SC) The first thing they wanted to know was "if I had insurance". After they learned I was retired military w/ Tricare, they operated 12 times before my brother said STOP. Lost my left leg and got over a million dollar hosp. bill. No shit.

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Ryan Gardner's avatar

Oh my. I am so sorry Carily!

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Peter Schott's avatar

I started getting on to my former PCP with stuff like that. "We want to run this test" - but I'd push back with a "how much is this going to cost" and the more important "is this test necessary". I know I also used to get too many prescriptions written for "the new latest drug" (usually for blood pressure or maybe an antibiotic) - the out of pocket costs were insane. I started pushing for generics because the costs were just too insane. The same started going for tests.

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N Springer's avatar

And yet it is like pulling teeth to get an actual full thyroid panel (TSH, FT4, FT3, rT3, and both thyroid antibodies). But it’s probably because 99.9% of doctors, including and especially endocrinologists, have NO CLUE what to do with the extra information. Which leads people like me to order my own meds from an overseas farmacia in order to actually hope to feel like a human being.

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RunningLogic's avatar

Functional medicine doctors and NPs will do this. My NP does.

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Sunnydaze's avatar

I’m still searching for an actual health care provider that isn’t in the medical complex club. Ugh. The one I’m seeing currently at least doesn’t push any “vaxxes” but she also doesn’t even call me with blood work results. I look them up and ask questions if I can’t figure it out and I tell her if I need anything or not. She’s letting me call the shots. It’s probably better that way. I’m in control this way. But I also wouldn’t trust her with an emergency at this point 🙄

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RunningLogic's avatar

It’s difficult and frustrating to try to find someone 😕

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Peter GL's avatar

AMEN

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Ellen's avatar

I have an Integrative Medicine MD I go to in NH. I recently learned the reason there are fewer of them in MA - and probably many other states - is that they are not licensed to prescribe in MA. In NH they are.

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Roger Beal's avatar

Some ODs (doctors of osteopathy) also do this, in our experience.

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Rosalind McGill's avatar

My integrative medicine Dr does too

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Fred's avatar

Really shouldn’t need a full panel except in a few very rare cases (and then only once). The TSH signals whether the pituitary perceives enough active thyroid hormone. The bottom line, so to speak. That being said, you want your TSH midrange; the upper limits of “normal” are way too high. If you have evidence to the contrary, please share. 😁

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Sunnydaze's avatar

I actually function better when my numbers are more toward the hyperthyroid range. Less symptomatic in that range. Took a while to help my pcp to understand “normal range” means jack of you are symptomatic. At the same time I have started using organic and natural thyroid/adrenal topical drops which is slowly bringing me closer to reducing the thyroid pill crap. Hoping to get off it all together and this is helping so far. It’s my last big pHARMA pill and then I will be free from their jaws of death! 🙌

I also understand overall TSH isn’t indicative of how your thyroid is functioning and what it needs. Getting more in depth blood work including T3/T4 and other markers is much more definitive. But try getting a normal “doc” to be willing to even look at it?? They don’t understand it. I found a lot of endocrinologists don’t even pay attention!!! It’s horrible. So much about the thyroid is misunderstood/a scam for more pills.

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Fre'd Bennett, MAHA's avatar

"So much about the thyroid is misunderstood/a scam for more pills."

More wisdom that bears repeating.

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Not That “Karen”'s avatar

Would you mind sharing the organic thyroid drops you take? My last TSH was quite high, but I refuse to take prescription meds.

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Fred's avatar

IDK what you mean by “quite high,” but being chronically hypothyroid is more dangerous (heart and brain, among others) than any pharmaceutical IMHO. I like to remind folks to analyze for themselves and not to ‘throw the baby out with the bath water.’ Although it now pains me to say this, there still is a place for conventional medicine.

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Not That “Karen”'s avatar

According to my doctor, my other thyroid hormone levels are within “normal” range, but TSH was 11. I guess meaning the pituitary has to work really hard to stimulate your thyroid to produce enough.

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Fred's avatar

The pituitary is actually beating (a dying horse) your thyroid to produce. IMHO, I would seriously

consider supplementation. I take the brand name but the rest of my fam does fine on the generic. Used to be a theory that an overworked thyroid made it prone to cancer, but have not heard that recently, nor did I find any studies on a very cursory search. Anyone?

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Sunnydaze's avatar

It’s a sister owned company out of Texas called rowecasaorganics.com

I use many of their products and was sold when I tried their menopause relief drops. Took away 95% of my hot flashes/nightsweats. From there I’m now using their shampoo & conditioner bars and soaps. If you go to their website you can browse their products and see reviews from actual users. They will list all the ingredients as well. Their customer service is top notch too!

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MB's avatar

Thanks for sharing this - will look into those drops. I have been hypothyroid for 20 years (no specific underlying disease) and take one of the naturally derived replacements (desiccated porcine thyroid). Does anyone know if there’s any way to heal hypothyroidism permanently or is supplementation the only route? I too would like to be free of any daily medications. And I agree 100% that most MD’s and endocrinologists have only a rudimentary understanding of how to adequately assess / treat this condition.

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Sunnydaze's avatar

Idk personally if it can be done but I’ve heard from others (online but not knowing the person) they have gotten off medication. I think just like most things there are ways to heal parts of our body that do not function in a healthy manner. The thyroid is an animal that’s not fully understood and yet responsible for so much of what our body does. I wish I could give you a better answer, but I’m still trying to learn about it myself.

What I do know is that there are so many people who take medication for hypothyroidism and yet experiencing a number of symptoms that are not going away. They are suffering in horrible ways. So why keep taking the pills? Not sure. Mine seems to be functioning in a good spot with very minimal symptoms right now so I’m riding that. Always on the look out for natural ways to heal though.

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Not That “Karen”'s avatar

Thanks for the info!

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Johnny-O's avatar

This person has greatly helped a couple of friends with hashimotos....

https://amandawikan.com

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Ellen's avatar

Can you suggest any good sources to read up? Especially about hyper parathyroid?

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Fred's avatar

Parathyroidism is one condition where you want to watch your Vit D levels, esp if you take extra. :)

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Sunnydaze's avatar

I can’t. Sorry. Not familiar with that.

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N Springer's avatar

Parathyroid is not related to thyroid. The parathyroids are just located on the thyroid. Vitamin D can affect parathyroid as far as I know as D has an effect on calcium which the parathyroid regulates. But I don’t know the details, just that they say surgery is the only option for hyperparathyroidism.

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N Springer's avatar

Well feeling like crap on a “full replacement dose” of NDT seems like a good reason. And it turns out my rT3 is high and my FT3 and FT4 are barely in range. I have defects of deiodinase enzymes so I don’t convert T4 into T3 very well so when drs only check TSH or TSH and FT4 things look fine. I can assure they are not.

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Fred's avatar

Exactly; that conversion defect is one of the fairly rare conditions.

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ASK's avatar

I prefer my TSH to be close to 1, at the lower end of the range.

Fred— you are completely right to say that not treating thyroid issues can cause bodily damage, especially for autoimmune. It stresses the body because the thyroid is working overtime to keep the hormone levels ‘normal’ and can damage your organs. Many doctors will do thyroid panels, but never test for antibodies which is the only way to diagnose for autoimmune thyroid. 20+ years ago it was estimated that 13 million have a thyroid condition, 8 million don’t know they have one.

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Fred's avatar

Thank you! Just watch your bone density, and if you ever start feeling sluggish regardless of whatever you do, might be worth letting your TSH drift up to 2-3 and see. Patients who over-medicate with their thyroid report feeling better (and I believe them) when they back off (possibly akin to the stimulant abusers who start feelng worse and worse instead of better with increasing doses). Just something to keep in mind. :)

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FedUpInOR's avatar

This is incorrect. The TSH is not a thyroid hormone and a poor indicator of thyroid health. It’s only a small piece of the puzzle and the full thyroid panel as stated above is what’s important

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Fred's avatar

WADR, it is the best indicator of thyroid function because of the pituitary feedback loop. It’s produced by the pituitary (‘master gland) and is the ‘bottom line’ that can detect a deficiency even when the actual thyroid tests are normal.

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Peter GL's avatar

and the beauty is if there is a specific test YOU want them to look at, the answer is I cannot get approved, or we need to wait for approval or some other malarkey. My brother's doctor found his pancreatic cancer when he did an ultrasound for his prostate, a procedure he was doing every six months! The doctor immediately sent him to the hospital for further investigation, where they found cancer and removed the pancreas. He lived a further six years, only because of what my doctor thought was "unnecessary" ultrasound!

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Truth 101's avatar

Told my new NP that no I wasn't going to get dexascan because I wasn't going to go on prescription med no matter the results. I didn't even get into the risks of these drugs as she seemed at a bit of loss for words.

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Fred's avatar

Agreed. Read up on boron. Just for fun, read the earlier good studies on strontium ranelate before tptb decided it caused heart disease (in old sedentary women; who’d a thunk? /s). I might try it in the -porosis vs -penia range. India is the only place to get it, and “not for human consumption.”

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Mary Suddath's avatar

Same here.

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LiveDreamRepeat's avatar

This thread is making me appreciate our non-insurance taking D.O. all the more. They keep paper records and insist on doing bloodwork in house because they have seen how often standard labs don't follow orders properly. They also use natural methods first, and meds only as appropriate.

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Fre'd Bennett, MAHA's avatar

Have a great way to get around this.

STOP GOING TO THE DOCTOR.

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carily myers's avatar

lol, LIKE. Haven't see one in years don't worry about my BP, glucose, cancer or anything else. I know my body. If I'm sick I know it. My body will normally heal itself. Boken bone-going to a doc.

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nancylee's avatar

you'd think that after the last 4 years this group would finally understand that all this medical bs is: only about the money, the drs dont know jackshit, its a massive ponzi scheme actively devoted to depopulation.

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Melissa S's avatar

Is this now a standard form they put before you whenever you have a blood test? If you don't sign it, does Quest refuse to do all blood tests ordered by your doctor?

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Irunthis1's avatar

My guess is yes. You no sign then no test. Going to need to find an alternative. I was wondering why my last labs were $250 when normally it’s $45-$50. Since I signed the waiver I really didn’t have a gripe. My own fault. Sigh. Any ideas of other labs with less predatory practices? Local I would guess. Might have this discussion with my pcp that I never see except for occasional need. But I get labs done twice a year from my naturopath who doesn’t take insurance and doesn’t have a lab on board anymore due to these same predatory practices. Maybe they will let me use their lab at the pcp.

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Jeff C's avatar

Check you insurance plan to see if Quest is considered "in network". If not, take the doctor's order to lab that is in network. The doctor cannot force you to use an out of network lab. These labs all do the exact same thing, they are interchangeable.

As I mentioned above, in network providers are contractually obligated to only charge you the price negotiated with the insurance company.

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Peter GL's avatar

and the beauty is they have a LOOONG two page list of what you are agreeing to with a simple box to tick that you agree...

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ASK's avatar

They are in network which is why I questioned it because it didn’t make sense. Spent about 6 hours one day getting to the bottom of it, spoke to insurance, the doctors office, Quest, multiple times and although I now have a clear understanding of what happened, it is still not resolved. Waiting for the Quest rep for my doctors office to call. I did put in a complaint to BC/BS with their fraud department. Also have the paper work for state complaints for multiple departments. The longer Quest waits to handle this, the more pissed I will get, along with more complaints and warnings to others that will happen.

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ASK's avatar

Your insurance should tell you what is covered and / or the reimbursement rate for the tests and what your owed amount is. I think they are using this form to skirt their contracted amounts and I was told I don’t have to sign when I told the doctors office I will refuse in the future. They have tried to balance bill me for a thyroid panel that they know they are contracted at a paid rate of $0. So that is what the insurance will pay by contract and I owe nothing. I questioned it, because I have NEVER had one of those tests NOT covered in 20+ years. I think it is not only unethical, but most likely illegal, and they are probably violating their contracts as well, or skirting around them.

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RunningLogic's avatar

Maybe a good idea to make a complaint with the state insurance board or AG.

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Fred's avatar

Irunthis1, check WalkIn lab. No hidden costs and you can choose either Quest or LabCorp (and see how they do the test). Idk if you can use their prices to contest; guessing not. Always order panels if you’re having a bunch of tests; almost always much cheaper.

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ASK's avatar

Funny, because the price they quoted on the form was slightly lower than the bill (less than a dollar), but they lied there too.

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Donna Mott's avatar

I never get my labs done at the hospital. I use Quest labs and pick which blood tests I need and pay the cheaper price.

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Fred's avatar

Just for fun, check your Quest cost against walkinlab.com Quest cost. I ordered 3 tests directly from LabCorp thinking that they couldn’t be more expensive with a middle man (walkinlab). Boy was I wrong! About $220 vs 475! 😡😡😡 Called LabCorp to ask (complain nicely), and they insisted that was the correct price and had not idea why WIL offered their own test, done in their own lab so much cheaper. It’s all a game…

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ASK's avatar

I was told by the office administrator that they cannot refuse to do the tests the doctor orders because of the form. Your insurance will normally send you an EOB Explanation of Benefits that will tell you what you owe, above what they have covered.

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Peter GL's avatar

what I find odd is when I look at the EOB Explanation how much overcharge is done vs how much insurance approves and how much I am required to pay!!!

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ASK's avatar

So there is actually a purpose in doing that. When you bill Medicare as a provider, you know they will only cover X for a payout of $Y. So you have to bill at a higher rate than $Y, because if you bill $Y, they will pay less. It’s a very screwed up system.

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Rosalind McGill's avatar

I use Labcorp for my thyroid test , question for everything else.

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Rosalind McGill's avatar

* Quest

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Skeptical Actuary's avatar

Cologuard, the test for colon cancer that advertises on TV all the time, runs about $500. We learned the hard way, and have Blue Cross.

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ASK's avatar

I have done that test twice (in lieu of getting a camera shoved up my …) as prescribed by the doctor and never had a problem getting it reimbursed by bc/bs insurance 100%.

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Skeptical Actuary's avatar

I was told that some plans were grandfathered in so they didn't have to do the $0 copay, and lucky us, my husband's plan is one of them! I suppose we could have been lied too, but that never happens, right?

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