Loved the homeowners association reference...the reason we will never buy property in a collective run by an HOA board. They take the saying "a little bit of power..." to an extreme.
Loved the homeowners association reference...the reason we will never buy property in a collective run by an HOA board. They take the saying "a little bit of power..." to an extreme.
In the words of the Princess Bride modified: There are two things you should never do. First never get into a land war in Asia and second never get into a lawsuit with an HOA. I worked for a guy who wanted to develop some property. He's been in a lawsuit with the HOA for over 10 years. It's insane.
I counter sued my HOA several years ago and WON. How? The community was so disgusted with their actions against me, they voted out the majority of the board and ran for and won their seats. We then settled the suit amicably and peacefully. It can be done, but you have to have the community with you.
Not to be devil's advocate or anything, but I've served on several HOA boards. The single biggest problem from a Board's perspective? >> People who buy property in an HOA and REFUSE to read the governing documents of the place before they sign. They move in, and want to do whatever they were doing in a private single-family home, or some other HOA. Everyone wants the "conveniences" of HOA living (landscaping and other needs handled for you, and often much more), but they also want the freedom to do whatever they want, no matter what they signed off on. You can't have your cake and eat it too (most of the time anyways.)
I worked for an HOA in the richest area of central Ohio. 90% of the residents had more money than common sense. The other 10% were pretty cool. I had to do these "welcome" speeches for new residents and I can't tell you the number of people who were shocked when I told them the rules. They HAD to sign a copy of those rules when they closed! It took everything I had not to ask them why the hell they didn't read it first.
At one of our closings, we were reading everything carefully before signing. We delayed the rest of the day's schedule, because apparently almost no one reads them, so they schedule them with short time availability. As a college student, my friend and I read the rental lease for our apartment; the manager said we were the only ones he'd seen do that. My dad was a lawyer, so I was raised with that guidance.
Thank you!! I was on my HOA board for 10 years, president for 5 of them. Our neighborhood is oldish, most houses built in the early 80's but our deed of restrictions has ensured that not only has our neighborhood kept its value, but actually makes it sought after with our pool, tennis courts, clubhouse and lots of neighborhood activities all maintained and organized by our volunteer board. One need only drive through the neighborhoods to the E and W of ours, that do not have an HOA, to see that there is some value. I 'get' that some HOA boards are petty tyrants and dictators but our restrictions are basically, 'you must maintain your property'. An occasional PITA-type person who occasionally landed on our board was voted out. If you want to let weeds over run your flower beds, have peeling paint on your house, and pile junk in your driveway, don't buy a house in our HOA.
My favorite scenario is when several "cost conscious" owners manage to get on a board. They then refuse all recommendations to raise fees and properly fund the reserves. Thus creating multiple cases of "deferred maintenance." They save money, sell their properties years later, and future owners get slammed with huge concrete, roofing, and other capital costs as assessments.
We have a couple of saintly people who've been on our board for ~30 years (although one recently stepped down due to failing health). They are the 'rock' members who have records and memories of every dumb decision and discussion (every 5-7 years we get a young one who wants to put in a playground - legal liability, insurance costs, and maintenance issues make it a big NO, and we have 2 city owned parks with playgrounds within a mile of us). Me and the 2 rocks were the only ones to vote down a proposal to resurface the pool area with a surface that ended up being slick when it was wet, and hotter than blazes when the sun hit it. The silver tongued sales guy's company filed bankruptcy when we took him to court (we weren't the only ones unhappy) and THAT dumb decision ate most of our reserves as we ended up having to tear out the entire pool deck and replace it. Other than that we have maintained a pretty even keel between keeping dues down and taking care of the less sexy maintenance things, thanks in a large part to the legacy members. God bless them - I did 10 years and I burned out - hours and hours of unpaid work and people only pay attention when they get pissed off and want to yell at you over some petty thing. Most have no clue how much work goes into it, especially when you have a very large common area, clubhouse, pool, and tennis courts that all have to be maintained.
I'm sure there are a few reasonable ones...but I've never heard anyone say they are fine with their HOA. We once looked at a small property (11 acres) with a house in an HOA. When I read the agreement it was just short of "you must go to church o Sunday and we will install video cameras all over your property and in your house to make sure you comply". For property with acreage, the restrictions were insane.
Well here’s a first for you then—I’m fine with mine. They were only a bit excessive about dandelions (for example) when the builders were still in control of it. Once it completely went over to the homeowners, after all the lots were sold, it became more relaxed and reasonable (even though it wasn’t bad before that).
I've read that HOAs are where the mall cop petty tyrants concentrate. My mom's had total seizures over a planter in front of her condo. They wanted to dictate what color it could be painted, how often it should be painted, and how high the vegetation could be in it. Control freak centrals, though now many have no doubt migrated to the public health and DEI establishments.
I have to speak up on behalf of Hoa’s. I’m on the board of ours simply for the reason NOONE ELSE WANTS TO DO IT. But let me tell you, EVERYONE WANTS TO COMPLAIN ABOUT YOU! My term expires in January and I’m done. If our development turns to crap, we’ll move.
Yep, did 10 years. Work your butt off for zero pay and then get yelled at all the time. I stuck with it as we had a core group for many years that were great people who did what they said they would do, were conscientious and we all had a good sense of humor and had some fun with it.
We have a core group on the board too. four out of the five members are great friends. I’m tired of everyone complaining about everything yet not one person is willing to help when we’re out weeding or watering or repairing. It’s our vacation home. We want to relax when we’re there but…. We had a neighbor come out and complain for 45 minutes as my husband and I were fertilizing the new landscaping. She didn’t understand why the landscaping company wasn’t doing it. I turned to her and said oh of course they would do it. But they will charge us. We don’t have the money in the budget to pay them for that unless we raise our Hoa dues. I said I didn’t have a problem with than. Did she? It shut her up but not for long. So tired of it.
Yes, landscaping services is one of the worst. No problem finding companies to mow & trim trees - but weeding, planting plants and maintaining it's either really expensive or really bad follow through. When I first got on the board ~2005 we had a 'teen list' of neighborhood teens who would advertise their availability for odd jobs - from dog walking, babysitting, leaf raking, snow removal. My son did a ton of that as he was in Boy Scouts and used the money he made for going on 3 'high adventure' trips. We had several teens the board used to pay for that sort of thing, with a few of us on the board working alongside them and supervising. But any more, seems like there are no teens who want to sweat or get dirty. I am no longer on the board but still pitch in on some of the 'clean up days' that they try to get volunteers for. Same old, same old, lots of keyboard warriors who complain but few who show up to DO stuff.
HOA board service has been called "The Worst Volunteer Position in American." Seriously - there is an article out there with that title. I think it's true.
One HOA topic I haven't seen discussed: Many people are worried about Blackrock and foreign investors buying up properties and turning them into rentals. It's happening in many neighborhoods. Yet, many HOAs (and most condo associations) prohibit rentals. Property owners scream about "my property rights," but their community is *protected* from the rental housing effect by those very same HOA documents. Seems that's worth something??
Yes, we had to grandfather in existing rentals due to case law precedent in our state, but our board did hold a vote in 2021 on changing our deed of restrictions so that no more properties in our neighborhood can become rentals upon sale effective 1/1/22. Our neighborhood is the kind of houses that are right in the sweet spot of these investors - prices hover right in the median housing price for our metro, although I have been reading that the investors are now pivoting into the below median value market due to higher interest rates.
We changed our bylaws this past year to say that you could not own more than two units and you had to live in one of the two. It passed, but barely. We have a person in there that owned three units and she sold two of them to a couple who live across the street. This couple now rents them out. They were one of the reasons we changed the bylaws. Unfortunately, they are grandfathered in but at least we stopped it from happening in the future.
When I bought my new house, that was my #1 rule. No HOAs, no "neighborhood associations", no one bothering me about how I live my life. If I want to paint the house purple and pink, I'm not asking anyone. Never good for a free spirit to go near those places.
You are so right!! As free spirit I feel the same. I do try to be respectful though. Admittedly, I fall short. I am not going to live my life to please others. Those days ended when I was 15 (I got some sense of self)
I live in a village in SC on Lake Moultrie. When I bought this house 26 yrs ago, the closing papers said that there was an HOA. I wanted to see the rules/fees, the closing attorney said "They don't have any". I've never been charged a fee and nobody's been elected to it in 26 yrs! Bliss.
This is where politicians start. And then it’s on to town boards, and up and up. Every single one of them, almost to a man, want power over others. There is no other explanation. The altruistic politician, ended with George Washington.
I campaigned for an elected office because that approval board (above HOA's in that community) was out of control and beat all the incumbents. I said I would clean up the approval group and did. One of the first, a real estate agent, suddenly retired after 18 years. A few hung on more tenaciously. I highlighted some of their shenanigans and supported homeowners vigorously in an effort to allow more roofing options in. One of the group members was a little too cozy with some roofing contractors. I went "undercover" at a factory training class for the new roofing materials to understand this lightweight alternative, see how it looked, etc. I liked it so much I put it on my previously cedar shingled roof because stone was too heavy for that roof. (installed it myself too) Stone coated steel for those that are interested. Textured and formed to look like stone tiles.
Same here. Ours is relaxed and just keeps things from getting out of hand. For example we voted to limit rentals to avoid big companies coming in and buying houses to rent out. It’s a great neighborhood with mostly nice respectful people and the few issues get handled in a reasonable way.
Yes, we were able to vote in restrictions on rentals a few years ago - when I was on the board our lawyer told us that case law precedents in our state made that all but impossible. But after I left the board, they consulted a different lawyer who did put together wording that he thought would survive a challenge and it passed by the neighborhood vote by a large margin. We had to 'grandfather in' existing rentals but effective 1/1/2022 no one can buy a house in order to rent it out. So far has not been challenged. Out of 374 homes, about 25 of them are rentals, and those landlords and/or their tenants are about 80% of the problems our board has to deal with. You can tell the rentals from the owned just by driving the neighborhood, corporate landlords do the bare minimum and only fix things when they get a letter from us.
Loved the homeowners association reference...the reason we will never buy property in a collective run by an HOA board. They take the saying "a little bit of power..." to an extreme.
In the words of the Princess Bride modified: There are two things you should never do. First never get into a land war in Asia and second never get into a lawsuit with an HOA. I worked for a guy who wanted to develop some property. He's been in a lawsuit with the HOA for over 10 years. It's insane.
I counter sued my HOA several years ago and WON. How? The community was so disgusted with their actions against me, they voted out the majority of the board and ran for and won their seats. We then settled the suit amicably and peacefully. It can be done, but you have to have the community with you.
Not to be devil's advocate or anything, but I've served on several HOA boards. The single biggest problem from a Board's perspective? >> People who buy property in an HOA and REFUSE to read the governing documents of the place before they sign. They move in, and want to do whatever they were doing in a private single-family home, or some other HOA. Everyone wants the "conveniences" of HOA living (landscaping and other needs handled for you, and often much more), but they also want the freedom to do whatever they want, no matter what they signed off on. You can't have your cake and eat it too (most of the time anyways.)
I worked for an HOA in the richest area of central Ohio. 90% of the residents had more money than common sense. The other 10% were pretty cool. I had to do these "welcome" speeches for new residents and I can't tell you the number of people who were shocked when I told them the rules. They HAD to sign a copy of those rules when they closed! It took everything I had not to ask them why the hell they didn't read it first.
At one of our closings, we were reading everything carefully before signing. We delayed the rest of the day's schedule, because apparently almost no one reads them, so they schedule them with short time availability. As a college student, my friend and I read the rental lease for our apartment; the manager said we were the only ones he'd seen do that. My dad was a lawyer, so I was raised with that guidance.
Thank you!! I was on my HOA board for 10 years, president for 5 of them. Our neighborhood is oldish, most houses built in the early 80's but our deed of restrictions has ensured that not only has our neighborhood kept its value, but actually makes it sought after with our pool, tennis courts, clubhouse and lots of neighborhood activities all maintained and organized by our volunteer board. One need only drive through the neighborhoods to the E and W of ours, that do not have an HOA, to see that there is some value. I 'get' that some HOA boards are petty tyrants and dictators but our restrictions are basically, 'you must maintain your property'. An occasional PITA-type person who occasionally landed on our board was voted out. If you want to let weeds over run your flower beds, have peeling paint on your house, and pile junk in your driveway, don't buy a house in our HOA.
You nailed it!
My favorite scenario is when several "cost conscious" owners manage to get on a board. They then refuse all recommendations to raise fees and properly fund the reserves. Thus creating multiple cases of "deferred maintenance." They save money, sell their properties years later, and future owners get slammed with huge concrete, roofing, and other capital costs as assessments.
We have a couple of saintly people who've been on our board for ~30 years (although one recently stepped down due to failing health). They are the 'rock' members who have records and memories of every dumb decision and discussion (every 5-7 years we get a young one who wants to put in a playground - legal liability, insurance costs, and maintenance issues make it a big NO, and we have 2 city owned parks with playgrounds within a mile of us). Me and the 2 rocks were the only ones to vote down a proposal to resurface the pool area with a surface that ended up being slick when it was wet, and hotter than blazes when the sun hit it. The silver tongued sales guy's company filed bankruptcy when we took him to court (we weren't the only ones unhappy) and THAT dumb decision ate most of our reserves as we ended up having to tear out the entire pool deck and replace it. Other than that we have maintained a pretty even keel between keeping dues down and taking care of the less sexy maintenance things, thanks in a large part to the legacy members. God bless them - I did 10 years and I burned out - hours and hours of unpaid work and people only pay attention when they get pissed off and want to yell at you over some petty thing. Most have no clue how much work goes into it, especially when you have a very large common area, clubhouse, pool, and tennis courts that all have to be maintained.
I'm sure there are a few reasonable ones...but I've never heard anyone say they are fine with their HOA. We once looked at a small property (11 acres) with a house in an HOA. When I read the agreement it was just short of "you must go to church o Sunday and we will install video cameras all over your property and in your house to make sure you comply". For property with acreage, the restrictions were insane.
Well here’s a first for you then—I’m fine with mine. They were only a bit excessive about dandelions (for example) when the builders were still in control of it. Once it completely went over to the homeowners, after all the lots were sold, it became more relaxed and reasonable (even though it wasn’t bad before that).
I've read that HOAs are where the mall cop petty tyrants concentrate. My mom's had total seizures over a planter in front of her condo. They wanted to dictate what color it could be painted, how often it should be painted, and how high the vegetation could be in it. Control freak centrals, though now many have no doubt migrated to the public health and DEI establishments.
I have to speak up on behalf of Hoa’s. I’m on the board of ours simply for the reason NOONE ELSE WANTS TO DO IT. But let me tell you, EVERYONE WANTS TO COMPLAIN ABOUT YOU! My term expires in January and I’m done. If our development turns to crap, we’ll move.
Yep, did 10 years. Work your butt off for zero pay and then get yelled at all the time. I stuck with it as we had a core group for many years that were great people who did what they said they would do, were conscientious and we all had a good sense of humor and had some fun with it.
We have a core group on the board too. four out of the five members are great friends. I’m tired of everyone complaining about everything yet not one person is willing to help when we’re out weeding or watering or repairing. It’s our vacation home. We want to relax when we’re there but…. We had a neighbor come out and complain for 45 minutes as my husband and I were fertilizing the new landscaping. She didn’t understand why the landscaping company wasn’t doing it. I turned to her and said oh of course they would do it. But they will charge us. We don’t have the money in the budget to pay them for that unless we raise our Hoa dues. I said I didn’t have a problem with than. Did she? It shut her up but not for long. So tired of it.
Yes, landscaping services is one of the worst. No problem finding companies to mow & trim trees - but weeding, planting plants and maintaining it's either really expensive or really bad follow through. When I first got on the board ~2005 we had a 'teen list' of neighborhood teens who would advertise their availability for odd jobs - from dog walking, babysitting, leaf raking, snow removal. My son did a ton of that as he was in Boy Scouts and used the money he made for going on 3 'high adventure' trips. We had several teens the board used to pay for that sort of thing, with a few of us on the board working alongside them and supervising. But any more, seems like there are no teens who want to sweat or get dirty. I am no longer on the board but still pitch in on some of the 'clean up days' that they try to get volunteers for. Same old, same old, lots of keyboard warriors who complain but few who show up to DO stuff.
HOA board service has been called "The Worst Volunteer Position in American." Seriously - there is an article out there with that title. I think it's true.
One HOA topic I haven't seen discussed: Many people are worried about Blackrock and foreign investors buying up properties and turning them into rentals. It's happening in many neighborhoods. Yet, many HOAs (and most condo associations) prohibit rentals. Property owners scream about "my property rights," but their community is *protected* from the rental housing effect by those very same HOA documents. Seems that's worth something??
Yes, we had to grandfather in existing rentals due to case law precedent in our state, but our board did hold a vote in 2021 on changing our deed of restrictions so that no more properties in our neighborhood can become rentals upon sale effective 1/1/22. Our neighborhood is the kind of houses that are right in the sweet spot of these investors - prices hover right in the median housing price for our metro, although I have been reading that the investors are now pivoting into the below median value market due to higher interest rates.
We changed our bylaws this past year to say that you could not own more than two units and you had to live in one of the two. It passed, but barely. We have a person in there that owned three units and she sold two of them to a couple who live across the street. This couple now rents them out. They were one of the reasons we changed the bylaws. Unfortunately, they are grandfathered in but at least we stopped it from happening in the future.
https://www.restorationpm.com/the-worst-volunteer-position-in-america
great movie with lots of great lines
Wow
I loathe home owner associations. Power corrupts even in this level
When I bought my new house, that was my #1 rule. No HOAs, no "neighborhood associations", no one bothering me about how I live my life. If I want to paint the house purple and pink, I'm not asking anyone. Never good for a free spirit to go near those places.
You are so right!! As free spirit I feel the same. I do try to be respectful though. Admittedly, I fall short. I am not going to live my life to please others. Those days ended when I was 15 (I got some sense of self)
I live in a village in SC on Lake Moultrie. When I bought this house 26 yrs ago, the closing papers said that there was an HOA. I wanted to see the rules/fees, the closing attorney said "They don't have any". I've never been charged a fee and nobody's been elected to it in 26 yrs! Bliss.
This is where politicians start. And then it’s on to town boards, and up and up. Every single one of them, almost to a man, want power over others. There is no other explanation. The altruistic politician, ended with George Washington.
I campaigned for an elected office because that approval board (above HOA's in that community) was out of control and beat all the incumbents. I said I would clean up the approval group and did. One of the first, a real estate agent, suddenly retired after 18 years. A few hung on more tenaciously. I highlighted some of their shenanigans and supported homeowners vigorously in an effort to allow more roofing options in. One of the group members was a little too cozy with some roofing contractors. I went "undercover" at a factory training class for the new roofing materials to understand this lightweight alternative, see how it looked, etc. I liked it so much I put it on my previously cedar shingled roof because stone was too heavy for that roof. (installed it myself too) Stone coated steel for those that are interested. Textured and formed to look like stone tiles.
Congrats!!
That’s awesome!
As I said. Rare.
We always hear about the terrible ones though because people don’t talk about the ones that are not problematic.
Heavy sigh, you’re probably right
HOA’s can be a pain - ours is pretty relaxed.
Our friends without HOA built a house then the Clampits moved in next door. They can’t enjoy sitting in their back yard.
Same here. Ours is relaxed and just keeps things from getting out of hand. For example we voted to limit rentals to avoid big companies coming in and buying houses to rent out. It’s a great neighborhood with mostly nice respectful people and the few issues get handled in a reasonable way.
Yes, we were able to vote in restrictions on rentals a few years ago - when I was on the board our lawyer told us that case law precedents in our state made that all but impossible. But after I left the board, they consulted a different lawyer who did put together wording that he thought would survive a challenge and it passed by the neighborhood vote by a large margin. We had to 'grandfather in' existing rentals but effective 1/1/2022 no one can buy a house in order to rent it out. So far has not been challenged. Out of 374 homes, about 25 of them are rentals, and those landlords and/or their tenants are about 80% of the problems our board has to deal with. You can tell the rentals from the owned just by driving the neighborhood, corporate landlords do the bare minimum and only fix things when they get a letter from us.
Ours isn’t too bad. No one has 17 cars parked in their front yard like a friend who isn’t in an HOA. It’s can be tuff without one too 😬
That’s when you learn kentuckyian.
lol
But, but, but...Them Clampits wuz rich! And Granny
would whip you up some possum stew anytime you'd like!
I’m in the same boat. My house was here before the HOA. Do you want to join? Hell, no!!
I live in one and ours is actually completely reasonable. But I get it that the “power” goes to too many people’s heads and they get crazy 😕
"HOAs are now enforcing vaxxine mandates, and How That's A Good Thing"
omg!!!
Yikes!
6 months later, same paper, headline reads, "HOA Boards Decimated by Heart Attacks brought on by people not paying their fines"
lol
Nice