Hypersonic weapons and religion doesn’t go well with coffee. Religious exemption, for church goers? The same churches that closed their doors during the pandemic while liquor stores and Lowe’s remained open? Church has nothing to do with being a Christian, God’s light is in each and everyone of us at birth, it’s a matter of how much worl…
Hypersonic weapons and religion doesn’t go well with coffee. Religious exemption, for church goers? The same churches that closed their doors during the pandemic while liquor stores and Lowe’s remained open? Church has nothing to do with being a Christian, God’s light is in each and everyone of us at birth, it’s a matter of how much worldly junk stifles it out. I’d say since the pandemic, many Christians have been digging themselves out and finding the light they’ve had all along. We are never without God, we simply turned our backs on him. Every single person on earth has the right to claim exemption from the vaccine that destroys our God given DNA. Asking if you are a church goer is not the question God would ask.
I appreciate your thoughts and I understand where you are coming from as I once thought the same thing. Regarding your last sentence though I would respectfully disagree as the God's Word tells us to fellowship with others, it's a command, not optional (Hebrews 10:25 among many other passages).
Many churches did not close their doors, or if they did they quickly reopened them once the pastor realized the danger was being overstated. Please don't lump all churches together in this regard, it's just not true and is a convenient excuse not to attend. And regarding hypocrisy I'll quote Greg Laurie, "If you find a church without hypocrisy please don't join it as you'll ruin it". We are all fallen creatures including pastors.
Fellowship can occur anywhere, parks, parking lots, fellowship is communicating with others about our faith, strengthening it as a community. I’m sorry, I had a negative experience with a Catholic Church and I never returned. I don’t like religion, I don’t trust it. I do believe in God, I pray, I do not congregate under a roof. I do not trust religion.
Raised Catholic myself so I get it, I was away from church for nearly two decades after falling away.
There are Bible-believing churches that are filled with wonderful people who love God and joyfully praise him together. I don't trust "religion" either which is why I don't do it. I celebrate a relationship with Christ with other likeminded people, that is fellowship that the Bible describes. It's joyful, heart-felt praise for all God has done for us and the wonder of His creation. Thankfully I've found a church that focuses on Him and not "religion".
I was in your exact same position and had lots of excuses not to attend. God had other plans though, and my life has been thoroughly blessed by it. God bless.
Just like we need to love the sinner and hate the sin, so must we separate the truth of the Catholic Church handed down from Christ from the fallen members (including leaders) that have compromised that truth. It is important to learn what the Church teaches so that what people “think” The Church teaches doesn’t get in the way of what Is the truth. I am beyond grateful everyday that I can truly receive the body and blood of the same Jesus that died for me. AMAZING!
Thank you, Jackie. Love Coffee and Covid, but I wish people would do some more research on what the Church actually teaches. Those who left truly do not know what they rejected, or they never would have done so.
Amen, sister! So well said. I need all the grace that’s available 🙏🏻 Can we commune with God on our own? Of course! But we live by our senses, and the same way Jesus used mud and spit to heal the blind man when he could have easily just said “be healed,” illustrates that we need concrete expressions of God’s presence. Receiving Holy Eucharist is life-changing!
Amen. The Lord, in the Eucharist, was my lifesaver during covid. I found a TLM Church that did not close down, did not require masks and were honestly practicing their faith. I found myself back in the Faith of my Fathers.
I too am a lapsed Catholic who wandered in the wilderness for many, many years looking for ‘something’. Jeff Childers is entirely correct in saying that Covid brought (at least some) people back to religion. I’d been slowly rediscovering my Christian faith, but it was in March of 2020 that I began to seriously read and study and pray once more. Where I live there are no churches which did not close their doors during Covid and, even re-opened, they are only interested in preaching the ‘religion’ of diversity. So I continue to worship alone, supported by online communities of faith. I have prayed to find a physical community, but so far that prayer has not been answered. Communities like this one help keep me sane - thank you all!
Former Catholics—I am also one— continue to be the largest group of non-churched folks. Praise God I found a Bible-based church that is my church home. We are about 2000 strong—although counting attendance is not a priority— don’t have a building, meet in a conference center, and donate over $2M annually to local and international faith-based initiatives. God is so good!
I'll add here that my comment wasn't meant to denigrate the Catholic church as "religion" but was meant as a general comment regarding people getting wrapped up in the mechanisms of religious practices at the expense of knowing Jesus.
Christ calls us to be in a relationship with Him, if that occurs in the Catholic Church then praise God! God works in all sorts of wonderous ways, and as the Bible says by our fruits they shall know us. By "religion" I meant those that mouth platitudes or went through the motions but don't actually know Him. Unfortunately I saw plenty of that growing up. Twelve years of Catholic schools culminated with our Catholic priest principal being taken down with the biggest sex abuse payout in LA and Orange county history at the time. It was not an isolated incident back then as several of our parish priests were also exposed over the years.
That was my experience but I recognize it's not that of everyone, and that there are plenty of Protestants and Orthodox who were also awful hypocrites.
If you are in a Catholic Church and love the Lord, then who am I to tell you that you are doing it wrong? Gods' grace covers us all, he doesn't expect us to tick every box on the salvation checklist but to love Him with our whole heart, mind, and soul. We are sanctified in this life through the renewing of our minds as Paul says, through that we draw closer to Him. If that is happening for you in a Catholic Church then God bless you as my brother or sister in Christ.
LL, as a “recovering Catholic” myself (meant only in a humorous, not disrespectful way), I can relate to your observation and especially to Jeff C’s reply. My parents raised me in their faith because that’s what they believed. So I was introduced to the Triune God and basics of Christian orthodoxy, but for me all the ceremony and traditions obscured the heart of the Gospel — the atoning death and resurrection of Jesus. As an adult I finally transitioned from the religion to the relationship and found the peace and forgiveness that I couldn’t fully grasp before being led to a Bible-teaching non-denominational fellowship. Truth always prevails. November of 2001, I was baptized of my own volition and born again (at the age of 37). My life is now split into everything that was before, and everything since! I pray that you will find that same soul-liberation and peace, not in “religion” but in sharing the true joy that comes from fellowship with heaven-bound pilgrims the world over.
Much of organized religion has been infiltrated. You have to be careful. Of course knowing how they approached the scamdemic and their endorsement of the shots would be a big indicator. Also what does the rainbow represent to them. Noah or trannies.
I don’t trust religion either! Religion is one thing; a relationship with the creator of the universe is quite another. Glad we’re in the C&C community together.
Do you quit shopping when you see a hypocrite at the store? Do you quit going to movies when you see a hypocrite at the theatre? Do you quit going to work because a hypocrite works there?
If you don’t quit doing those things, if you continue going back to the store, the theatre, work..........doesn’t that make you a hypocrite?
There is division in denomination. But, it is about a relationship with the good Lord. It is not about a building or who you tithe to....fellowship is not limited to a pre-designed space. But, a lot of denominations pushed, actively, for the coof jab after lockdowns and mask mandates and 'no singing'. It is there where they lost a lot of trust. But, those who chose to 'leave' a certain 'church', found fellowship elsewhere, I hope. How often does it talk about Jesus arranging a talk in a temple? None that I can think of, off the top of my head. If anything, the temples were for scolding those in charge. But, even if there is just ONE person who questioned, one person who moved closer to their creator because of the behavior of TPTB, it is good. May God bless all of us in our journey to know the one true God. May we be ever mindful that He is a loving God, but he is also a jealous God. A vengeful God. We need to remember that it is not all JUST butterflies and rainbows. The FEAR of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom.
But Lisa you will be spending eternity with the very same people you are avoiding now so you might as well learn to love and accept them (and I’m preaching to myself here cuz I often get fed-up and impatient with the saints.) if we truly love God we will love Gods people. Also, fellowship is important but we gather to worship primarily, not be entertained. I hope you find a solid church! It’s a huge blessing.
I'm not avoiding people, I'm avoiding denominational issues. To me, I see a person, that person is of God. What happens once they live on earth, well, I don't have anything to say about it. I do however have a good deal to say about what I do and where I congregate. Trust me, God loves me alone in the woods sitting under a tree, he loves me in a community. I'm not ever worried about avoiding people. People are the least of my worries.
Unfortunately, Jeff, that "fellowship" is relegated to other Christians. When I left my "Church", I lost every friend I ever had, and one remarked that I was "the dog that went back to his vomit." (Hebrews). Most former friends said they'd pray for me, and I'm sure they did, but organized religion, by definition, is exclusionary. I prefer the unconditional love of the unchurched.
God already knows everything there is to know about us.... so there's that...
Find a church, settle in, and live the life He planned for us. Church is community. Community is necessary. Share the gospel, the authentic one that lead to our conversion. Having others holding us accountable is a good start. We aren't going to build His kingdom by standing back and watching for change... Church is where we should want to be...
Where two or more are gathered in my name... The physical church in contemporary times constitutes a physical structure. But the word Ecclesia (from Ecclesiastical) is from the Greek meaning an assembly of citizens. Jesus held “church” gatherings in rooms and in fields and on mountainsides to discuss the scriptures. There are some that have moved away from the physical church and have started bible studies at home. I belong to such a group, gathering to read and study the Bible. That is a fellowship so close and rewarding - sister-like within a women only group - where understanding and challenging each other cannot be duplicated in a physical structure on Sunday. However, to go to a church and receive the bread and wine, collectively, is a beautiful thing as well. A combination of those disciplines that come from the heart is what keeps me close to Him.
I believe we need to be a part of a community where God is not. Non- believers learn nothing from those entering a building to worship. They learn from the actions of believers, the bright light of God is better served on the streets where there are people in need. A community does not have a roof and walls. We segregate ourselves, this is not Godly.
Scripture has a lot to say about worship from Gen to Rev. The weekly worship service, whether in a church, a field or a home, is not a segregation as all visitors are welcome. But it is a coming together, specifically as the body of Christ through the empowering of the Holy Spirit for the specific purpose of worshiping God: the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. We often lose sight of the simple fact that we are called by God to give Him worship. Some traditions treat Sunday worship as primarily a "teaching event". Some treat worship as a "conversion opportunity" even though they are "preaching to the choir." Some treat Sunday worship as a "ministry event" to meet the emotional needs of the people. There are always elements of this in our Sunday gatherings but the main purpose of the Sunday coming together is to glorify the Lord and offer praises to His Name along with the host in heaven whom we join when we gather in worship. This "mystical" experience is the primary purpose of the Sunday worship service. The Psalmist is the best teacher of what worship is. Read the Psalms and use them in worship to understand how to worship the Lord.
I would add that it is the other 6 days of the week when we are to do the work of carrying the light of the gospel out into the world in service to others. Sunday is exclusively given in service to our Lord.
Precisely. We are called to do both: Worship with fellow believers AND carry the gospel message to the ends of the earth. "The hands and feet of Jesus".
Well said Phil. I’ve seen so many folks who see themselves as Christians but want to remain independent of the body of Christ. So often, they are vulnerable and become easy targets for Satan because they are self-isolated and therefore weak. Paul said each one of us has a vital function in the Body and we are all needed no matter how insignificant we are.
I don't know what I would have done without church. Many do not have such strong faith as to not need encouragement from others. A good church is a place you find that. Taking such support away would plunge many people into despair, at which point they have little to offer others. God loves the weak and knows they need support and comfort and I think it was for love of us he gave us scriptures that say we ought to go to church.
My neighborhood during the worst of covid was such a bleak lonely place with no support to be found because everyone believed isolating was the most virtuous thing you could do. Because of the verses about the importance of meeting, my church met and it was a haven for hurting people.
The first Christians met in their HOMES - no "resplendent buildings" (that was the pagans that had their glorious edifices to extol their "gods"). TIME TO RETURN TO OUR ROOTS--GO UNDERGROUND and worship together in our home (via ZOOM for now).
True!! However...I am referring to the new dispensation of Christian believers (most of whom are "Gentiles")..unlike the old dispensation of Jewish believers in Jehovah God.
Hypersonic weapons and religion doesn’t go well with coffee. Religious exemption, for church goers? The same churches that closed their doors during the pandemic while liquor stores and Lowe’s remained open? Church has nothing to do with being a Christian, God’s light is in each and everyone of us at birth, it’s a matter of how much worldly junk stifles it out. I’d say since the pandemic, many Christians have been digging themselves out and finding the light they’ve had all along. We are never without God, we simply turned our backs on him. Every single person on earth has the right to claim exemption from the vaccine that destroys our God given DNA. Asking if you are a church goer is not the question God would ask.
I appreciate your thoughts and I understand where you are coming from as I once thought the same thing. Regarding your last sentence though I would respectfully disagree as the God's Word tells us to fellowship with others, it's a command, not optional (Hebrews 10:25 among many other passages).
https://www.openbible.info/topics/fellowship
Many churches did not close their doors, or if they did they quickly reopened them once the pastor realized the danger was being overstated. Please don't lump all churches together in this regard, it's just not true and is a convenient excuse not to attend. And regarding hypocrisy I'll quote Greg Laurie, "If you find a church without hypocrisy please don't join it as you'll ruin it". We are all fallen creatures including pastors.
Fellowship can occur anywhere, parks, parking lots, fellowship is communicating with others about our faith, strengthening it as a community. I’m sorry, I had a negative experience with a Catholic Church and I never returned. I don’t like religion, I don’t trust it. I do believe in God, I pray, I do not congregate under a roof. I do not trust religion.
Raised Catholic myself so I get it, I was away from church for nearly two decades after falling away.
There are Bible-believing churches that are filled with wonderful people who love God and joyfully praise him together. I don't trust "religion" either which is why I don't do it. I celebrate a relationship with Christ with other likeminded people, that is fellowship that the Bible describes. It's joyful, heart-felt praise for all God has done for us and the wonder of His creation. Thankfully I've found a church that focuses on Him and not "religion".
I was in your exact same position and had lots of excuses not to attend. God had other plans though, and my life has been thoroughly blessed by it. God bless.
Just like we need to love the sinner and hate the sin, so must we separate the truth of the Catholic Church handed down from Christ from the fallen members (including leaders) that have compromised that truth. It is important to learn what the Church teaches so that what people “think” The Church teaches doesn’t get in the way of what Is the truth. I am beyond grateful everyday that I can truly receive the body and blood of the same Jesus that died for me. AMAZING!
Thank you, Jackie. Love Coffee and Covid, but I wish people would do some more research on what the Church actually teaches. Those who left truly do not know what they rejected, or they never would have done so.
Yes and this can be proven out by the many Protestant and formerly anti-Catholic people that on seeking the truth, end up in the Catholic faith.
Amen, sister! So well said. I need all the grace that’s available 🙏🏻 Can we commune with God on our own? Of course! But we live by our senses, and the same way Jesus used mud and spit to heal the blind man when he could have easily just said “be healed,” illustrates that we need concrete expressions of God’s presence. Receiving Holy Eucharist is life-changing!
Not only that, it’s BIBLICAL! Matt 26: 26-29
Amen. The Lord, in the Eucharist, was my lifesaver during covid. I found a TLM Church that did not close down, did not require masks and were honestly practicing their faith. I found myself back in the Faith of my Fathers.
I thank God each day.
Perfectly & kindly said Jeff C.
I too am a lapsed Catholic who wandered in the wilderness for many, many years looking for ‘something’. Jeff Childers is entirely correct in saying that Covid brought (at least some) people back to religion. I’d been slowly rediscovering my Christian faith, but it was in March of 2020 that I began to seriously read and study and pray once more. Where I live there are no churches which did not close their doors during Covid and, even re-opened, they are only interested in preaching the ‘religion’ of diversity. So I continue to worship alone, supported by online communities of faith. I have prayed to find a physical community, but so far that prayer has not been answered. Communities like this one help keep me sane - thank you all!
Former Catholics—I am also one— continue to be the largest group of non-churched folks. Praise God I found a Bible-based church that is my church home. We are about 2000 strong—although counting attendance is not a priority— don’t have a building, meet in a conference center, and donate over $2M annually to local and international faith-based initiatives. God is so good!
I'll add here that my comment wasn't meant to denigrate the Catholic church as "religion" but was meant as a general comment regarding people getting wrapped up in the mechanisms of religious practices at the expense of knowing Jesus.
Christ calls us to be in a relationship with Him, if that occurs in the Catholic Church then praise God! God works in all sorts of wonderous ways, and as the Bible says by our fruits they shall know us. By "religion" I meant those that mouth platitudes or went through the motions but don't actually know Him. Unfortunately I saw plenty of that growing up. Twelve years of Catholic schools culminated with our Catholic priest principal being taken down with the biggest sex abuse payout in LA and Orange county history at the time. It was not an isolated incident back then as several of our parish priests were also exposed over the years.
That was my experience but I recognize it's not that of everyone, and that there are plenty of Protestants and Orthodox who were also awful hypocrites.
If you are in a Catholic Church and love the Lord, then who am I to tell you that you are doing it wrong? Gods' grace covers us all, he doesn't expect us to tick every box on the salvation checklist but to love Him with our whole heart, mind, and soul. We are sanctified in this life through the renewing of our minds as Paul says, through that we draw closer to Him. If that is happening for you in a Catholic Church then God bless you as my brother or sister in Christ.
LL, as a “recovering Catholic” myself (meant only in a humorous, not disrespectful way), I can relate to your observation and especially to Jeff C’s reply. My parents raised me in their faith because that’s what they believed. So I was introduced to the Triune God and basics of Christian orthodoxy, but for me all the ceremony and traditions obscured the heart of the Gospel — the atoning death and resurrection of Jesus. As an adult I finally transitioned from the religion to the relationship and found the peace and forgiveness that I couldn’t fully grasp before being led to a Bible-teaching non-denominational fellowship. Truth always prevails. November of 2001, I was baptized of my own volition and born again (at the age of 37). My life is now split into everything that was before, and everything since! I pray that you will find that same soul-liberation and peace, not in “religion” but in sharing the true joy that comes from fellowship with heaven-bound pilgrims the world over.
Beautiful words of healing and hope, J.M. - thank you for sharing your personal "redemption journey".
Much of organized religion has been infiltrated. You have to be careful. Of course knowing how they approached the scamdemic and their endorsement of the shots would be a big indicator. Also what does the rainbow represent to them. Noah or trannies.
I don’t trust religion either! Religion is one thing; a relationship with the creator of the universe is quite another. Glad we’re in the C&C community together.
Do you quit shopping when you see a hypocrite at the store? Do you quit going to movies when you see a hypocrite at the theatre? Do you quit going to work because a hypocrite works there?
If you don’t quit doing those things, if you continue going back to the store, the theatre, work..........doesn’t that make you a hypocrite?
Yeshua (Jesus) hated religion too.
He came to teach us that it was NOT religion He wanted, but Relationship!
That’s an entirely different thing than ‘religion’
There is division in denomination. But, it is about a relationship with the good Lord. It is not about a building or who you tithe to....fellowship is not limited to a pre-designed space. But, a lot of denominations pushed, actively, for the coof jab after lockdowns and mask mandates and 'no singing'. It is there where they lost a lot of trust. But, those who chose to 'leave' a certain 'church', found fellowship elsewhere, I hope. How often does it talk about Jesus arranging a talk in a temple? None that I can think of, off the top of my head. If anything, the temples were for scolding those in charge. But, even if there is just ONE person who questioned, one person who moved closer to their creator because of the behavior of TPTB, it is good. May God bless all of us in our journey to know the one true God. May we be ever mindful that He is a loving God, but he is also a jealous God. A vengeful God. We need to remember that it is not all JUST butterflies and rainbows. The FEAR of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom.
Temples also for sale of sacrificial animals? And I'll change your money for you if you don't have the correct currency--in in-temple ATM?
Yep and I guess that’s why Jesus had to clean the Temple twice in a fearful way to put an end to the scam.
Never thought of THAT angle. Good eye!!
🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
But Lisa you will be spending eternity with the very same people you are avoiding now so you might as well learn to love and accept them (and I’m preaching to myself here cuz I often get fed-up and impatient with the saints.) if we truly love God we will love Gods people. Also, fellowship is important but we gather to worship primarily, not be entertained. I hope you find a solid church! It’s a huge blessing.
I'm not avoiding people, I'm avoiding denominational issues. To me, I see a person, that person is of God. What happens once they live on earth, well, I don't have anything to say about it. I do however have a good deal to say about what I do and where I congregate. Trust me, God loves me alone in the woods sitting under a tree, he loves me in a community. I'm not ever worried about avoiding people. People are the least of my worries.
I you mean -
You don’t like ‘Organized Religion’!!!
Unfortunately, Jeff, that "fellowship" is relegated to other Christians. When I left my "Church", I lost every friend I ever had, and one remarked that I was "the dog that went back to his vomit." (Hebrews). Most former friends said they'd pray for me, and I'm sure they did, but organized religion, by definition, is exclusionary. I prefer the unconditional love of the unchurched.
Amen!
Thanks for the link Jeff!
God already knows everything there is to know about us.... so there's that...
Find a church, settle in, and live the life He planned for us. Church is community. Community is necessary. Share the gospel, the authentic one that lead to our conversion. Having others holding us accountable is a good start. We aren't going to build His kingdom by standing back and watching for change... Church is where we should want to be...
Where two or more are gathered in my name... The physical church in contemporary times constitutes a physical structure. But the word Ecclesia (from Ecclesiastical) is from the Greek meaning an assembly of citizens. Jesus held “church” gatherings in rooms and in fields and on mountainsides to discuss the scriptures. There are some that have moved away from the physical church and have started bible studies at home. I belong to such a group, gathering to read and study the Bible. That is a fellowship so close and rewarding - sister-like within a women only group - where understanding and challenging each other cannot be duplicated in a physical structure on Sunday. However, to go to a church and receive the bread and wine, collectively, is a beautiful thing as well. A combination of those disciplines that come from the heart is what keeps me close to Him.
Bible study groups are necessary for building up the body...our own... into bodies.
We are in Him and He in us.
I believe we need to be a part of a community where God is not. Non- believers learn nothing from those entering a building to worship. They learn from the actions of believers, the bright light of God is better served on the streets where there are people in need. A community does not have a roof and walls. We segregate ourselves, this is not Godly.
Scripture has a lot to say about worship from Gen to Rev. The weekly worship service, whether in a church, a field or a home, is not a segregation as all visitors are welcome. But it is a coming together, specifically as the body of Christ through the empowering of the Holy Spirit for the specific purpose of worshiping God: the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. We often lose sight of the simple fact that we are called by God to give Him worship. Some traditions treat Sunday worship as primarily a "teaching event". Some treat worship as a "conversion opportunity" even though they are "preaching to the choir." Some treat Sunday worship as a "ministry event" to meet the emotional needs of the people. There are always elements of this in our Sunday gatherings but the main purpose of the Sunday coming together is to glorify the Lord and offer praises to His Name along with the host in heaven whom we join when we gather in worship. This "mystical" experience is the primary purpose of the Sunday worship service. The Psalmist is the best teacher of what worship is. Read the Psalms and use them in worship to understand how to worship the Lord.
I would add that it is the other 6 days of the week when we are to do the work of carrying the light of the gospel out into the world in service to others. Sunday is exclusively given in service to our Lord.
Precisely. We are called to do both: Worship with fellow believers AND carry the gospel message to the ends of the earth. "The hands and feet of Jesus".
Well said Phil. I’ve seen so many folks who see themselves as Christians but want to remain independent of the body of Christ. So often, they are vulnerable and become easy targets for Satan because they are self-isolated and therefore weak. Paul said each one of us has a vital function in the Body and we are all needed no matter how insignificant we are.
I don't know what I would have done without church. Many do not have such strong faith as to not need encouragement from others. A good church is a place you find that. Taking such support away would plunge many people into despair, at which point they have little to offer others. God loves the weak and knows they need support and comfort and I think it was for love of us he gave us scriptures that say we ought to go to church.
My neighborhood during the worst of covid was such a bleak lonely place with no support to be found because everyone believed isolating was the most virtuous thing you could do. Because of the verses about the importance of meeting, my church met and it was a haven for hurting people.
Everywhere Christians go they carry His light. There is no place God is not. Shining His light in this dark world matters.
An argument against abuse is not a valid argument against use. The church was instituted by Jesus himself. We ignore it to our spiritual peril.
The first Christians met in their HOMES - no "resplendent buildings" (that was the pagans that had their glorious edifices to extol their "gods"). TIME TO RETURN TO OUR ROOTS--GO UNDERGROUND and worship together in our home (via ZOOM for now).
The Temple King Soloman built for the Lord was not shabby....
True!! However...I am referring to the new dispensation of Christian believers (most of whom are "Gentiles")..unlike the old dispensation of Jewish believers in Jehovah God.
Yes!!!!
Amen.