I kind of skipped the whole proxy war part. I am not a military analyst, but I and many others saw Ukraine coming as soon as Afghanistan was disgracefully abandoned. I still do not believe there is not under the table cooperation from the DOD, with Russia and China. The Ukraine government has been corrupt for decades and hiding all kinds…
I kind of skipped the whole proxy war part. I am not a military analyst, but I and many others saw Ukraine coming as soon as Afghanistan was disgracefully abandoned. I still do not believe there is not under the table cooperation from the DOD, with Russia and China. The Ukraine government has been corrupt for decades and hiding all kinds of US secrets. That’s my take.
But I loved your last part of the revival happening. I was raised in the Lutheran church. I worked in the parochial school attached to the church until covid hit. When my church shut down for months, took money to stay shut down, and reopened the school the following September with everyone in masks, including preschoolers and toddlers, and the most ridiculous protocols, I was thoroughly disillusioned by the mainstream churches. I realized that everything my old church was doing was being handed down from the state synod, in turn the national synod. I found out many churches quietly stayed open. I found others opened back up quickly and threw off all restrictions, immediately. It was my own personal revival. Since then I have attended a Pentecostal church. I love the enthusiasm by which they worship, I love the pastor and his Biblical standard for everything. I’ve gone to a Baptist church where the minister put me in mind of one of the Black Robes of the Revolution in America’s independence. Like Jeff, I have expanded, and loved that I am seeing revival and everything that goes with it. So many great people have come out as teachers and leaders in this Jesus revolution, and many of the mega church leaders have fallen. That’s as it should be. This is a Spiritual war, and we don’t defeat evil any other way. I often think you are at your best, Jeff, when you quietly, but regularly add your faith as the basis for all going forward. God bless!
I still attend my old church semi regularly. There are Saturday evening services, so I can go there and still go to my other on Sunday mornings.There are good people in this church who worship regularly, but have been lulled into the church losing it’s influence in the community. Churches used to be the places that first responded to emergencies. They helped clothe and feed those in need. Their pastors and priests sat on school boards and township boards. They were involved! Now they have shrank within themselves, content to be a building unto themselves, no longer being missionaries within their own communities. I now kid, “I am two churched”, but I truly feel I am revived!
I, too, was raised in the Lutheran church but after marriage started attending the church of my husband's upbringing. Upon our divorce just a few years before Covid, I returned to the Lutheran church and found comfort in it's ritual and services. However, I also found that it was becoming too progressive and pushing for social change/justice that I did not agree with. I stopped going after they shut down hard.
Attending only once about a year ago back at the church of my youth with my father. By this time, masking had decline significantly in the area where I live but was still quite enforced here. The message that day was about our collective guilt as participants in a racially founded nation. I was disgusted. This congregation was the first in a new land where it's Dutch settlers were looking for freedom and equality and a way to unrestrictedly worship their God. I am at loss to understand how it's history has been so twisted.
I am currently seeking a new church family. But am hesitant to reach out and rather timid of visiting new churches by myself.
Not Lutheran but our children attend Lutheran Church Missouri Synod (LCMS) schools and we're extremely thankful for it.
One thing I've realized is that there are denominations of Lutheranism that are as different as night is from day. The Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (ELCA, the largest Lutheran demonization in the US) has forsaken the Bible and some might say Christ Himself. The churches are "pastored" by characters that proudly list their pronouns and the churches sport rainbow flags and BLM banners. It's about as far from biblical Christianity as one can get.
The LCMS and other denominations such as WELS on the other hand, are still biblical, often fiercely so. At my kids orientation their LCMS principal stated, "my vow to you is we will never teach your kids anything contrary to God's Word". He meant every word of it.
If you find comfort in Lutheran services you really might want to consider LCMS or one of the other remaining biblical denominations. The ELCA unfairly gives Lutheranism a bad name as unlike the ELCA, not all Lutheran churches have not submitted to the demonic spirit of the age.
I agree. I liked the pastor of my duel Lutheran church. I worked in the school and he would often come in and talk politics with me. Then CoVid hit and the lockdown shut off every light. Nothing. After a month they started streaming a service of sorts where the pastor stood in front of a blue screen with automated choir music and delivered a message. He would state that he abstained from communion until “we” could all take it together, the implication was don’t try to do this at home. Wait. OK, but suddenly last December it was announced we would have communion in every service, never done before. I realized that the all of the new directives were coming not from our board of elders but from the top of the Missouri synod, so we would be homogenous. I want Biblical teaching, what I realized I was getting was a canned sermon, a same every Sunday liturgy, that seemed to be moving more towards the Catholic masses where only the top down was allowed to direct or speak. I have learned more about Martin Luther from this Pentecostal church then I ever did in my own Lutheran church. My new Pastor broke down the Apostles Creed and why it is so important and yet it is not part of their everyday services. I love much about the traditional Lutheran church I grew up in, but I can no longer remain in a tight little group with only my “church” people included. Too many churches failed in the events of covid and the lockdowns. I have learned to give Grace to them as no one knew what was going on, but too many have persisted in sweeping it all under the rug. That can’t ever happen again. I still volunteer at the parochial school and love it, but I pray that the leaders now know how duped we all were.
What you describe is parallel to the PCA / PC(USA) divide. The former is, to use your words, "fiercely Biblical". The latter, well, correct pronouns are more important within their denomination every passing day. Our PCA church has welcomed families fleeing the ELCA church in town.
The small town church I grew up in is PC USA. The pastor is completely lost... he's a college prof as well. I think the combo of PC USA churches closing down and colleges closing and requiring zoom courses completely undid him! He hasn't held a church service indoors since March 2020... he sends his congregants an email each week, "that counts as a sermon..." When he did agree to hold services, he had people drive up and sit in their cars, while he spoke (with a mask on) over a loud speaker from the breezeway... No communion. No piano. No hymns. 15 minutes and it was done. Our friends moved to another church. What was once a vibrant church has been suffocated by milk toast Christian fools!
It IS intimidating, especially for those of us who are introverts. But so worthwhile!
While my family were traveling for two months, we opted to visit different churches during our travels and found good ones in each place. I encourage you to stick with it and don't give up. Look at reviews and websites to get clues about what churches are like before visiting. With one, I remember being so encouraged because they had written an article making the case for Christians getting religious exemptions from vaccine mandates and why it was a reasonable biblical stand. I thought, "wow, I'm going to feel very comfortable attending here!" And we were.
And the Presby USA took the exact opposite stance. The congregations must be shedding all over each other now. Assuming the shedding thing is real--I await confirmation one way or the other.
I hope you can find a new church. My husband was a non participating Catholic when we married. He joined the Lutheran church a year after we married. We raised 3 kids together in the church. Two have moved out of state and attend no church and the one here still attends but is not a regular. My husband loves the tradition and routine of the church, it reminds him of his Catholic upbringing. It is grounded to him. I felt like I was in a box when covid hit. Had it not shut down traditional churches, I may never have left. I go alone regularly to my new church, but I found a wonderful welcoming group of people who make me feel welcome every Sunday.
Most churches now do some kind of social media to make people aware of their existence. Many do live streaming of their services. You can watch many on podcasts later on. It may give you an idea if you would like to attend. It is worth a look at.
I did find a church online to "attend" Easter services. I am considering a visit, although, like your husband I also find the tradition soothing and this church does not seem to fill that need though I did appreciate the Easter message. I suppose that I will keep looking.
And many did. They drove all the way across town to our church... In February of 2021, 78 people joined our church. Their church didn't open until much later in the year....
I wonder how much of it is driven by the principals themselves. Our kids attend an LCMS school and our experience was much different. The school did follow the public health order when it was in effect (under Romans 13) but the school stopped doing so the instant it was rescinded. Also, the school put up tent classrooms outdoors so students could attend class without masks (weather permitting). Last off, once the mask order was lifted the school required a doctor's note for children to continue to wear masks in class, the rationale being that masks impeded communication.
Our principal happens to be a fearless man of God though, and we are incredibly blessed to have him. If the principal is a spineless, I could see how a one could easily succumb to the bureaucracy of a large church organization.
First and foremost they have to teach the Word of God, all of it. It’s reading the Bible and teaching our children the true happenings recorded therein. It is not rote memorization of liturgical precepts, but knowing God and having such a close relationship with Him.
I'm so sorry you had such an experience. We occasionally attend a Lutheran Church (MO synod) in Conklin, MI where several generations of my family were/are members. I say occasionally because we live in TX but we travel to MI frequently so whenever I'm there, I feel the need to attend church there plus, both of my parents and several other deceased family members are buried on a hill behind the church). I didn't travel there during the first 2 years of covid. I know they had zoom Church services for awhile.
I kind of skipped the whole proxy war part. I am not a military analyst, but I and many others saw Ukraine coming as soon as Afghanistan was disgracefully abandoned. I still do not believe there is not under the table cooperation from the DOD, with Russia and China. The Ukraine government has been corrupt for decades and hiding all kinds of US secrets. That’s my take.
But I loved your last part of the revival happening. I was raised in the Lutheran church. I worked in the parochial school attached to the church until covid hit. When my church shut down for months, took money to stay shut down, and reopened the school the following September with everyone in masks, including preschoolers and toddlers, and the most ridiculous protocols, I was thoroughly disillusioned by the mainstream churches. I realized that everything my old church was doing was being handed down from the state synod, in turn the national synod. I found out many churches quietly stayed open. I found others opened back up quickly and threw off all restrictions, immediately. It was my own personal revival. Since then I have attended a Pentecostal church. I love the enthusiasm by which they worship, I love the pastor and his Biblical standard for everything. I’ve gone to a Baptist church where the minister put me in mind of one of the Black Robes of the Revolution in America’s independence. Like Jeff, I have expanded, and loved that I am seeing revival and everything that goes with it. So many great people have come out as teachers and leaders in this Jesus revolution, and many of the mega church leaders have fallen. That’s as it should be. This is a Spiritual war, and we don’t defeat evil any other way. I often think you are at your best, Jeff, when you quietly, but regularly add your faith as the basis for all going forward. God bless!
Makes me understand the admonition against "lukewarm" Christians.
I still attend my old church semi regularly. There are Saturday evening services, so I can go there and still go to my other on Sunday mornings.There are good people in this church who worship regularly, but have been lulled into the church losing it’s influence in the community. Churches used to be the places that first responded to emergencies. They helped clothe and feed those in need. Their pastors and priests sat on school boards and township boards. They were involved! Now they have shrank within themselves, content to be a building unto themselves, no longer being missionaries within their own communities. I now kid, “I am two churched”, but I truly feel I am revived!
I, too, was raised in the Lutheran church but after marriage started attending the church of my husband's upbringing. Upon our divorce just a few years before Covid, I returned to the Lutheran church and found comfort in it's ritual and services. However, I also found that it was becoming too progressive and pushing for social change/justice that I did not agree with. I stopped going after they shut down hard.
Attending only once about a year ago back at the church of my youth with my father. By this time, masking had decline significantly in the area where I live but was still quite enforced here. The message that day was about our collective guilt as participants in a racially founded nation. I was disgusted. This congregation was the first in a new land where it's Dutch settlers were looking for freedom and equality and a way to unrestrictedly worship their God. I am at loss to understand how it's history has been so twisted.
I am currently seeking a new church family. But am hesitant to reach out and rather timid of visiting new churches by myself.
Not Lutheran but our children attend Lutheran Church Missouri Synod (LCMS) schools and we're extremely thankful for it.
One thing I've realized is that there are denominations of Lutheranism that are as different as night is from day. The Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (ELCA, the largest Lutheran demonization in the US) has forsaken the Bible and some might say Christ Himself. The churches are "pastored" by characters that proudly list their pronouns and the churches sport rainbow flags and BLM banners. It's about as far from biblical Christianity as one can get.
The LCMS and other denominations such as WELS on the other hand, are still biblical, often fiercely so. At my kids orientation their LCMS principal stated, "my vow to you is we will never teach your kids anything contrary to God's Word". He meant every word of it.
If you find comfort in Lutheran services you really might want to consider LCMS or one of the other remaining biblical denominations. The ELCA unfairly gives Lutheranism a bad name as unlike the ELCA, not all Lutheran churches have not submitted to the demonic spirit of the age.
I agree. I liked the pastor of my duel Lutheran church. I worked in the school and he would often come in and talk politics with me. Then CoVid hit and the lockdown shut off every light. Nothing. After a month they started streaming a service of sorts where the pastor stood in front of a blue screen with automated choir music and delivered a message. He would state that he abstained from communion until “we” could all take it together, the implication was don’t try to do this at home. Wait. OK, but suddenly last December it was announced we would have communion in every service, never done before. I realized that the all of the new directives were coming not from our board of elders but from the top of the Missouri synod, so we would be homogenous. I want Biblical teaching, what I realized I was getting was a canned sermon, a same every Sunday liturgy, that seemed to be moving more towards the Catholic masses where only the top down was allowed to direct or speak. I have learned more about Martin Luther from this Pentecostal church then I ever did in my own Lutheran church. My new Pastor broke down the Apostles Creed and why it is so important and yet it is not part of their everyday services. I love much about the traditional Lutheran church I grew up in, but I can no longer remain in a tight little group with only my “church” people included. Too many churches failed in the events of covid and the lockdowns. I have learned to give Grace to them as no one knew what was going on, but too many have persisted in sweeping it all under the rug. That can’t ever happen again. I still volunteer at the parochial school and love it, but I pray that the leaders now know how duped we all were.
What you describe is parallel to the PCA / PC(USA) divide. The former is, to use your words, "fiercely Biblical". The latter, well, correct pronouns are more important within their denomination every passing day. Our PCA church has welcomed families fleeing the ELCA church in town.
Yep!
The small town church I grew up in is PC USA. The pastor is completely lost... he's a college prof as well. I think the combo of PC USA churches closing down and colleges closing and requiring zoom courses completely undid him! He hasn't held a church service indoors since March 2020... he sends his congregants an email each week, "that counts as a sermon..." When he did agree to hold services, he had people drive up and sit in their cars, while he spoke (with a mask on) over a loud speaker from the breezeway... No communion. No piano. No hymns. 15 minutes and it was done. Our friends moved to another church. What was once a vibrant church has been suffocated by milk toast Christian fools!
It IS intimidating, especially for those of us who are introverts. But so worthwhile!
While my family were traveling for two months, we opted to visit different churches during our travels and found good ones in each place. I encourage you to stick with it and don't give up. Look at reviews and websites to get clues about what churches are like before visiting. With one, I remember being so encouraged because they had written an article making the case for Christians getting religious exemptions from vaccine mandates and why it was a reasonable biblical stand. I thought, "wow, I'm going to feel very comfortable attending here!" And we were.
And the Presby USA took the exact opposite stance. The congregations must be shedding all over each other now. Assuming the shedding thing is real--I await confirmation one way or the other.
I hope you can find a new church. My husband was a non participating Catholic when we married. He joined the Lutheran church a year after we married. We raised 3 kids together in the church. Two have moved out of state and attend no church and the one here still attends but is not a regular. My husband loves the tradition and routine of the church, it reminds him of his Catholic upbringing. It is grounded to him. I felt like I was in a box when covid hit. Had it not shut down traditional churches, I may never have left. I go alone regularly to my new church, but I found a wonderful welcoming group of people who make me feel welcome every Sunday.
Most churches now do some kind of social media to make people aware of their existence. Many do live streaming of their services. You can watch many on podcasts later on. It may give you an idea if you would like to attend. It is worth a look at.
I did find a church online to "attend" Easter services. I am considering a visit, although, like your husband I also find the tradition soothing and this church does not seem to fill that need though I did appreciate the Easter message. I suppose that I will keep looking.
Keep looking...there are wonderful churches out there!
Oh wow. I think if I had been sitting in that congregation listening to that kind of drivel of a sermon, I would have stood up and left.
It was all I could do to stay. I wouldn't leave my 90 year old dad.
And many did. They drove all the way across town to our church... In February of 2021, 78 people joined our church. Their church didn't open until much later in the year....
Where are you located?
Thank you, Laurie, for sharing your journey to revival and HOPE in the finished work of our Lord and Saviour--Jesus Christ--the TRUE "Lion King"!
Out of curiosity, was your Lutheran church a Missouri or Wisconsin Synod church?
Missouri
I wonder how much of it is driven by the principals themselves. Our kids attend an LCMS school and our experience was much different. The school did follow the public health order when it was in effect (under Romans 13) but the school stopped doing so the instant it was rescinded. Also, the school put up tent classrooms outdoors so students could attend class without masks (weather permitting). Last off, once the mask order was lifted the school required a doctor's note for children to continue to wear masks in class, the rationale being that masks impeded communication.
Our principal happens to be a fearless man of God though, and we are incredibly blessed to have him. If the principal is a spineless, I could see how a one could easily succumb to the bureaucracy of a large church organization.
First and foremost they have to teach the Word of God, all of it. It’s reading the Bible and teaching our children the true happenings recorded therein. It is not rote memorization of liturgical precepts, but knowing God and having such a close relationship with Him.
I'm so sorry you had such an experience. We occasionally attend a Lutheran Church (MO synod) in Conklin, MI where several generations of my family were/are members. I say occasionally because we live in TX but we travel to MI frequently so whenever I'm there, I feel the need to attend church there plus, both of my parents and several other deceased family members are buried on a hill behind the church). I didn't travel there during the first 2 years of covid. I know they had zoom Church services for awhile.