I’m losing respect for this entire back and forth — both sides.
Iron Horsey, as I want to treat people with respect and to not ascribe bad motives NOR make unknowable assumptions, may we please have some links? True accounts of specific personal experience can be helpful too.
Furthermore, disagreement & discussion is fine. But you have no idea what I nor what anyone else knows about these things — nor what I (or anyone) can or cannot “conceive of this bloodthirsty barbarism”…or any other, for that matter. Presumptions are not helpful; accusations are stupid. And this all applies to those who engage here (stern stink eye to you all. )
Without corroborating and substantiating citations linked to our opinions, it’s just hot air.
Institute for the Study of War offers a tight overview from their website on developments.It will be deemed a "neocon" source not on par with Rumble grifters. ISW does provide good information however and is viewed globally as a good source.
Solzhenitsyn even passed is another good source. His work addresses well the problems in Russia today especially since the Russian Orthodox Church is led by a KGB man who now claims that Russia's attacks on Ukraine and its citizens is doing God's work. This mentality as you may have noticed surfaces here in the comments. It's attracted these Russians who support Putin's War.
Thank you, Iron Horsey. As you have done, links should be provided by everyone for any assertion they know to be contrary.
Solzhenitsyn was indeed a truly great man. I agree with that. I’ve plowed his books and warnings to the West. We haven’t listened. But godlessness comes in many forms. Many disguises. I think only He can give real discernment. It was when Solzhenitsyn was reborn in Christ that his thoughts gained their profound and prophetic insights.
I will make a statement here from scripture and logic both: to be anti-god is anti-christ is anti-man.
Concerning the link you provided (and thank you!), this prelate appears to appropriate God’s prerogative to discipline His children in His Sovereign, Just, and Wise Love, but wrongly, by baptizing & sanctifying the actions of a State! Agreed. That is NOT good!
But, I also have several reservations about that linked post itself: 1) The prelate speaking is NOT identified in the post. 2) The man posting the translated video is an apologist for Ukraine, who hates Russia. 3) I have no way of knowing, given the above, that it is objectively or correctly translated. 4) It is clearly intended to both define Russia’s actions and to demonstrate that they have a twisted evil intent, but, without providing proper information, it’s no different than “Rumble grifters”, which you denigrate.
It provides only the writer’s opinion, which is clearly motivated to persuade or bolster his point of view, but not to give a whole truth since nothing is provide to help one judge for oneself. This lack of information and its biased source and thought-leading make it appear dishonest and suspect.
I hit some snags with your post as well. (Though I thank you again for writing a nice reply and posting a link 👏🏻.)
I have nothing against the Ukrainian nor the Russian people. People generally love their country and what patriotism should be is the desire to protect and care for her people.
The actualities of which government and its oligarchy is more corrupt than another, I will put aside — mainly because I hate all corruption and very few countries are not steeped in it. It’s not hard to find thousands of examples. Godless lies and propaganda (manipulative lies and partial truths) are ubiquitous. Yes, and labels are a part of that. And please do keep in mind that not everyone who criticizes Ukraine is a Putin apologist, puppet — or uninformed or stupid.
My interest is in getting to truth, getting to reason, getting to a peaceful life for all. I’m American and I want MY country to be good — honorable, wise and just. I want to know how we can get there.
We (the US) are deliberately promoting and extending a war, instead of working for peace — well before this war, early on and on up to the present. While men are sent to die, the oligarchs and pols — and shamefully, ours — profit by their sacrifice.
What we do, what I see here displayed with all this arguing back and forth, is too often often childish bickering. You both point fingers and argue about who the bad guy is until it degrades to new depths of grade school immaturity. (And I am not immune to that myself.) Stink eye on the lot of us when we do this! We’re better than that.
What I’d like to see us do is to point to good men, great men, rather than just argue about which nation is the bad one, therefore their enemy must be the good one. Because, “An enemy of my enemy” is rarely my friend. They too can be an enemy — or a handy tool. Who is the friend when one’s own country is against him, hence, is his enemy? Can there be opposing leaders and forces that are all wrong — in part or whole?
…and no, it’s not inherently wrong to state a position or grievance. But here, he was presenting as facts something that is in the public domain, yet coyly and deceptively presented. And I question the innocence of Ukraine, the US and Nato in all this; I think your first words have yet to be established as a given.
But the first point begs the question entirely. Your assertion is based on arguable assumptions, but which have not been established in our discussion. It then becomes based purely on which evidence we deem reliable and which we do not, based on disparate sources which are the heart of the matter in the first place.
I had said that since the man you linked to was a self- subscribed Ukraine apologist AND provided no information one could use to examine his assertions (with clear intent to persuade the reader). Nor could I check the accuracy of the translation. And by omitting —or withholding —these he impeaches himself as a reliable source. I have no way of proving his veracity and neither do you!
Further, had I quoted Jackson Hinkle, your critique might possess some legitimacy (which we would have to endeavor to prove or disprove). But, since I did not mention him at all (I have nothing to do with him) you merely set up a random (& irrelevant!) straw man to knock down.
I’m trying to see if we can start on a level playing field. Please address the issues I raised and leave the assumptions, irrelevancies, straw men and name calling, Ok?
If we can talk about what you’ve linked using verifiable information and objectivity, that would be a good start.
In this case, giving a this prelate’s name and the date of recording would help. Then I could find various translations and check one against another.
I’m bent on ascertaining & settling the question of whom to trust. If we poke holes in one-another’s
Assumptions and assertions, let’s do it with an aim to ascertain & reveal facts & larger truth, not to vilify or denigrate someone or other here or just keep making assertions. As I said before, I think the discussions here degraded to an embarrassingly low level! (Hence the stink eye all around the room 🤨)
I think you agree that we all need to curb & guard against that all-to-human tendency!
Peace and grace to you. Peace in the world. Peace with God.
I’m losing respect for this entire back and forth — both sides.
Iron Horsey, as I want to treat people with respect and to not ascribe bad motives NOR make unknowable assumptions, may we please have some links? True accounts of specific personal experience can be helpful too.
Furthermore, disagreement & discussion is fine. But you have no idea what I nor what anyone else knows about these things — nor what I (or anyone) can or cannot “conceive of this bloodthirsty barbarism”…or any other, for that matter. Presumptions are not helpful; accusations are stupid. And this all applies to those who engage here (stern stink eye to you all. )
Without corroborating and substantiating citations linked to our opinions, it’s just hot air.
I've shared links. Not too many.
Institute for the Study of War offers a tight overview from their website on developments.It will be deemed a "neocon" source not on par with Rumble grifters. ISW does provide good information however and is viewed globally as a good source.
Solzhenitsyn even passed is another good source. His work addresses well the problems in Russia today especially since the Russian Orthodox Church is led by a KGB man who now claims that Russia's attacks on Ukraine and its citizens is doing God's work. This mentality as you may have noticed surfaces here in the comments. It's attracted these Russians who support Putin's War.
https://twitter.com/Gerashchenko_en/status/1688866527188013056
Thank you, Iron Horsey. As you have done, links should be provided by everyone for any assertion they know to be contrary.
Solzhenitsyn was indeed a truly great man. I agree with that. I’ve plowed his books and warnings to the West. We haven’t listened. But godlessness comes in many forms. Many disguises. I think only He can give real discernment. It was when Solzhenitsyn was reborn in Christ that his thoughts gained their profound and prophetic insights.
I will make a statement here from scripture and logic both: to be anti-god is anti-christ is anti-man.
Concerning the link you provided (and thank you!), this prelate appears to appropriate God’s prerogative to discipline His children in His Sovereign, Just, and Wise Love, but wrongly, by baptizing & sanctifying the actions of a State! Agreed. That is NOT good!
But, I also have several reservations about that linked post itself: 1) The prelate speaking is NOT identified in the post. 2) The man posting the translated video is an apologist for Ukraine, who hates Russia. 3) I have no way of knowing, given the above, that it is objectively or correctly translated. 4) It is clearly intended to both define Russia’s actions and to demonstrate that they have a twisted evil intent, but, without providing proper information, it’s no different than “Rumble grifters”, which you denigrate.
It provides only the writer’s opinion, which is clearly motivated to persuade or bolster his point of view, but not to give a whole truth since nothing is provide to help one judge for oneself. This lack of information and its biased source and thought-leading make it appear dishonest and suspect.
I hit some snags with your post as well. (Though I thank you again for writing a nice reply and posting a link 👏🏻.)
I have nothing against the Ukrainian nor the Russian people. People generally love their country and what patriotism should be is the desire to protect and care for her people.
The actualities of which government and its oligarchy is more corrupt than another, I will put aside — mainly because I hate all corruption and very few countries are not steeped in it. It’s not hard to find thousands of examples. Godless lies and propaganda (manipulative lies and partial truths) are ubiquitous. Yes, and labels are a part of that. And please do keep in mind that not everyone who criticizes Ukraine is a Putin apologist, puppet — or uninformed or stupid.
My interest is in getting to truth, getting to reason, getting to a peaceful life for all. I’m American and I want MY country to be good — honorable, wise and just. I want to know how we can get there.
We (the US) are deliberately promoting and extending a war, instead of working for peace — well before this war, early on and on up to the present. While men are sent to die, the oligarchs and pols — and shamefully, ours — profit by their sacrifice.
What we do, what I see here displayed with all this arguing back and forth, is too often often childish bickering. You both point fingers and argue about who the bad guy is until it degrades to new depths of grade school immaturity. (And I am not immune to that myself.) Stink eye on the lot of us when we do this! We’re better than that.
What I’d like to see us do is to point to good men, great men, rather than just argue about which nation is the bad one, therefore their enemy must be the good one. Because, “An enemy of my enemy” is rarely my friend. They too can be an enemy — or a handy tool. Who is the friend when one’s own country is against him, hence, is his enemy? Can there be opposing leaders and forces that are all wrong — in part or whole?
👇🏼Your link referenced in my response:
https://twitter.com/Gerashchenko_en/status/1688866527188013056
That poster reads & cites https://twitter.com/Gerashchenko_en,
Who is a Ukr. apologist.
Let’s continue talking & discussing amongst ourselves. But let’s all be better men as we do it.
Lord, forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass upon us. Amen.
In peace and God’s Love.
🕊
The people who suffer from an illegal invasion/occupation speaking is not inherently wrong.
Evaluate the consistency of the speaker versus someone like a Jackson Hinkle who is obviously on the Putin ruble dime.
…and no, it’s not inherently wrong to state a position or grievance. But here, he was presenting as facts something that is in the public domain, yet coyly and deceptively presented. And I question the innocence of Ukraine, the US and Nato in all this; I think your first words have yet to be established as a given.
Ok. I understand what you’re saying.
But the first point begs the question entirely. Your assertion is based on arguable assumptions, but which have not been established in our discussion. It then becomes based purely on which evidence we deem reliable and which we do not, based on disparate sources which are the heart of the matter in the first place.
I had said that since the man you linked to was a self- subscribed Ukraine apologist AND provided no information one could use to examine his assertions (with clear intent to persuade the reader). Nor could I check the accuracy of the translation. And by omitting —or withholding —these he impeaches himself as a reliable source. I have no way of proving his veracity and neither do you!
Further, had I quoted Jackson Hinkle, your critique might possess some legitimacy (which we would have to endeavor to prove or disprove). But, since I did not mention him at all (I have nothing to do with him) you merely set up a random (& irrelevant!) straw man to knock down.
I’m trying to see if we can start on a level playing field. Please address the issues I raised and leave the assumptions, irrelevancies, straw men and name calling, Ok?
If we can talk about what you’ve linked using verifiable information and objectivity, that would be a good start.
In this case, giving a this prelate’s name and the date of recording would help. Then I could find various translations and check one against another.
I’m bent on ascertaining & settling the question of whom to trust. If we poke holes in one-another’s
Assumptions and assertions, let’s do it with an aim to ascertain & reveal facts & larger truth, not to vilify or denigrate someone or other here or just keep making assertions. As I said before, I think the discussions here degraded to an embarrassingly low level! (Hence the stink eye all around the room 🤨)
I think you agree that we all need to curb & guard against that all-to-human tendency!
Peace and grace to you. Peace in the world. Peace with God.
👆🏼✝️🕊