It does not say you cannot wish for/desire justice. Good governance should mete that out (I said good). On the other hand, preoccupation with vengeance rarely works out in your favor. In fact it can ruin your life.
It does not say you cannot wish for/desire justice. Good governance should mete that out (I said good). On the other hand, preoccupation with vengeance rarely works out in your favor. In fact it can ruin your life.
I need to research this more, but I believe the intent of turning the other cheek refers to personal offenses. Societal justice is a different subject. God intends for governments to be just and for righteous people to stand up for what is right.
"If the Jews, as subjects of Rome, did not comply with a Roman soldier’s requests for anything from a drink of water to handing over personal property, a swift backhand to the right cheek was common. But why would Jesus instruct His followers to offer the left cheek as well?
Paul T. Penley explains in “Turning the Other Cheek’: Jesus’ Peaceful Plan to Challenge Injustice,” “Roman soldiers tended to be right-handed. When they struck an equal with a fist, it came from the right and made contact with the left side of the face.
When they struck an inferior person, they swung with the back of their right hand making contact with the right cheek. In a Mediterranean culture that made clear distinctions between classes, Roman soldiers backhanded their subjects to make a point. Jews were second-class.” The Roman slap was an insult to the Jews’ personal dignity."
Really good! Jesus was not weak, did not practice tolerance of anything and everything. To know him we not only need to read the Word, but to understand what his words meant in that time. I need to study more!
He turned over the tables of the money changers in the temple. Evil. Called out the wicked.
He certainly had an overabundance of patience with His people and in particular His disciples. And now His Church. God CANNOT tolerate sin.
Christ is able to show His strength when we are weak. Christ never abuses his strength and never uses his unlimited strength unjustly. We are not called to tolerate evil. Not at all.
I love these deeper insights into these stories that give us expressions such as, "Turn the other cheek." With a fuller understanding of the context, we see that Jesus was actually advising that we stand our ground, not pathetically "turn the other cheek" and let bygones be bygones, and asking or allowing ourselves to slapped again...Which is, I'd guess, how most "understand" Jesus's teaching here. No, be bold!
One of the most transformative explanations for me of the Beatitude, "The 'meek' shall inherit the earth," was the explanation of the word "meek." In the Aramaic, the language Jesus spoke, that word did not have the meaning we ascribe to it in English or via translation into the Greek.
One of its many meanings included its allusion to being 𝒕𝒆𝒂𝒄𝒉𝒂𝒃𝒍𝒆, flexible. When I put that meaning into the Beatitude, "And the 𝒕𝒆𝒂𝒄𝒉𝒂𝒃𝒍𝒆 shall inherit the earth (the land), that resonated for me. Of course, Jesus would say that! Not the shy and retiring inheriting the land, but those who are teachable, open, flexible...Indeed.
But God does not like proud people. Thus the double sin for Pride Week, not to mention that they absconded with the rainbow which is another Biblical symbol of godly promise.
This dovetails nicely to Jesus' amplification of his Sermon on the Mount where he details what loving your enemies looks like (it is in Matthew chapter 5 verses 38-48 - Mt5:38-48 for the people who might be wondering about the bible abbreviation structure) He tells us WHY we should do it and why He allows goodness to fall on both the good and evil. It is jam packed with answers! Luke 6:27-35 talks of turning the cheek, the value of all the cheek turning to the Christian and is where we get the "Do unto others as we would have others do unto us" saying. (any curious readers?: Luke is the third book in the New Testament-- Matthew, Mark then Luke which is one of the 4 Gospel books(Gospel loosely meaning good news about Christ and what he did for us).
Trigger warning (smirk): Tangentially, there is another verse out there about (as a Christ follower) being a good slave. That will enrage people these days. Makes me laugh thinking of it.
It is a moderating consideration designed to keep us from tearing down our own houses at the first flash of gun powder. Think of it as an anti-Snow Flake measure as a sort of wrath inhibitor. In short, we need not go to war over every little trifle of offense. Wisdom is always needed in the application of Scripture. And one verse of Scripture can never subtract from or undo the continuity of Scripture from Alpha to Omega.
I think what I stated above applies here as well; we show no open retribution or revenge, rather we pray for their spirits to awaken to the truth of God in them. We are commanded, in the Lord’s parader, to forgive them of their offenses as we have been forgiven of our sins by God. I don’t think it means to continually allow them to abuse us or others, but rather to use the full extent of the law as it applies to evil-doers. This is not vengeance, but standing up for what is right and true and protecting ourselves and those who need it. I could be wrong, but God didn’t give us a mind and strength to not defend ourselves against brutality.
That's a good point, Janice. I do not find the principle of self-defense anywhere in the Scriptures, but I DO see laying down our lives for someone else. In matters of society, we are to stand up for others and protect them. This often means standing up to, combating, and subduing evil on behalf of others. It is not in the spirit of vengeance, but in the spirit of what Jesus did for us: laying down our lives for others.
The right of self-defense is abundant in Scripture. For example, "Thou shalt no kill" as the negative averal implies "thou shalt not be killed" which in turn implies directly the right of self-defense from which in law we get the term 'justifiable homicide'. There are plenty more such examples in the Old Testament, and more up front direct in the taking. And the greatest statue in the world is The David in the Academy in Florence. That would be David in the act of contemplating the slaying Goliath ... all in defense of the Hebrew tribes. So, it is not just self-defense ... but also in defense of the family and the extended family ... and the larger family of the dwelling place called country. And all so that the just (righteous) can live in God's Peace under God's Holy Law Order.
The Fallen Western Church teaches a New Testament divorced from the Old Testament as a sort of schismatic heresy. This teaching is in the character of pure Scofield dispensational nonsense.
It depends upon which Bible one uses. In the KJV, the Geneva 1599 and the American Standard Version, it is 'Thou shall not kill'. In many other Bibles the word 'murder' is used. But whether it is kill or murder, the understanding by divines is always stated within the context of what is lawful. And whether one reads Luther, Calvin or R. J. Rushdoony, it is always so.
The purpose of the covenantal injunction of the Sixth Commandment is to do no harm to one's neighbor. Hence, the deeper purpose of the Commandment is equally an instruction in how to 'love they neighbor' by doing him no harm or injury, and loving him by living responsibly with one's neighbors in a state of God's Peace. Below is from the Westminster Confession of Faith, larger confession. It illustrates the point.
WLC 135: What are the duties required in the Sixth Commandment?
Answer: The duties required in the Sixth Commandment are, all careful studies, and lawful endeavors, to preserve the life of ourselves1 and others2 by resisting all thoughts and purposes3, subduing all passions4, and avoiding all occasions5, temptations6, and practices, which tend to the unjust taking away the life of any7; by just defense thereof against violence8, patient bearing of the hand of God9, quietness of mind10, cheerfulness of spirit11; a sober use of meat12, drink13, physical14, sleep15, labour16, and recreations17; by charitable thoughts18, love19, compassion20, meekness, gentleness, kindness21; peaceable22, mild and courteous speeches and behavior23; forbearance, readiness to be reconciled, patient bearing and forgiving of injuries, and requiting good for evil24; comforting and succoring the distressed, and protecting and defending the innocent.25
So, some say 'murder' is the better usage. But I say neither 'murder' or 'kill' is adequate without expository enlargement. R. J. Rushdoony is probably the most expansive look into the meaning of the Six Commandment. This would be The Institutes of Biblical Law, Vol. 1, pages 219 - 332.
I also recently discovered from the teachings of Mary Magdalene, that we are commanded to love the “spirit” of all God’s children; keeping in mind that not all humans are following God’s Way, at any given time, and thus their spirits are not pure. I take this to mean we are not commanded to love, or tolerate, their human actions, but only their spirits, for they, as do we, have the opportunity to repent and be included in God’s love and compassion. It is a choice for each of us as his creations. This helps me to better accept the evil nature manifested in humans, understanding they have not yet awakened to their true calling by God. It also assures me that God has everything under control. I don’t need to put myself in a position of judgement or revenge; that is God’s alone. I must pray for the evil-influenced spirits to awaken and be reunited with their creator. This generally quells my overwhelming, not-so-divine, human desire to take them out; however righteous it might feel at the time! 😝
It is worth remembering that all humans are God’s creation, but not all of them are His children. Some are children of the devil.
“By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.”
Thank you, Janice, for shining light on that verse. I'd also suggest one read and contemplate Matthew 13:24-30, the parable of the wheat and the tares ... which explains why both are allowed to grow side-by-side until the harvest ... at which time the tares will be thrown in the fire.
Justice need not be instantaneous to remain justice.
It will be up to the Righteous King Judge (our risen Savior) to tell who are the "sheep" and who are the "goats" on that "great and mighty White Throne Judgment" .
It does not say you cannot wish for/desire justice. Good governance should mete that out (I said good). On the other hand, preoccupation with vengeance rarely works out in your favor. In fact it can ruin your life.
I need to research this more, but I believe the intent of turning the other cheek refers to personal offenses. Societal justice is a different subject. God intends for governments to be just and for righteous people to stand up for what is right.
"If the Jews, as subjects of Rome, did not comply with a Roman soldier’s requests for anything from a drink of water to handing over personal property, a swift backhand to the right cheek was common. But why would Jesus instruct His followers to offer the left cheek as well?
Paul T. Penley explains in “Turning the Other Cheek’: Jesus’ Peaceful Plan to Challenge Injustice,” “Roman soldiers tended to be right-handed. When they struck an equal with a fist, it came from the right and made contact with the left side of the face.
When they struck an inferior person, they swung with the back of their right hand making contact with the right cheek. In a Mediterranean culture that made clear distinctions between classes, Roman soldiers backhanded their subjects to make a point. Jews were second-class.” The Roman slap was an insult to the Jews’ personal dignity."
https://www.biblestudytools.com/bible-study/topical-studies/what-does-it-really-mean-to-turn-the-other-cheek.html
Really good! Jesus was not weak, did not practice tolerance of anything and everything. To know him we not only need to read the Word, but to understand what his words meant in that time. I need to study more!
He turned over the tables of the money changers in the temple. Evil. Called out the wicked.
He certainly had an overabundance of patience with His people and in particular His disciples. And now His Church. God CANNOT tolerate sin.
Christ is able to show His strength when we are weak. Christ never abuses his strength and never uses his unlimited strength unjustly. We are not called to tolerate evil. Not at all.
Avoid all appearances of evil
"If you have a cloak sell it and buy a sword".
I'm sure someone will place that in proper context. Love this C&C community!
Then Jesus said to him, “Put your sword back into its place. For all who take the sword will perish by the sword."
I love these deeper insights into these stories that give us expressions such as, "Turn the other cheek." With a fuller understanding of the context, we see that Jesus was actually advising that we stand our ground, not pathetically "turn the other cheek" and let bygones be bygones, and asking or allowing ourselves to slapped again...Which is, I'd guess, how most "understand" Jesus's teaching here. No, be bold!
One of the most transformative explanations for me of the Beatitude, "The 'meek' shall inherit the earth," was the explanation of the word "meek." In the Aramaic, the language Jesus spoke, that word did not have the meaning we ascribe to it in English or via translation into the Greek.
One of its many meanings included its allusion to being 𝒕𝒆𝒂𝒄𝒉𝒂𝒃𝒍𝒆, flexible. When I put that meaning into the Beatitude, "And the 𝒕𝒆𝒂𝒄𝒉𝒂𝒃𝒍𝒆 shall inherit the earth (the land), that resonated for me. Of course, Jesus would say that! Not the shy and retiring inheriting the land, but those who are teachable, open, flexible...Indeed.
Beautifully worded - thank you for enlightening us, "She"!
But God does not like proud people. Thus the double sin for Pride Week, not to mention that they absconded with the rainbow which is another Biblical symbol of godly promise.
This dovetails nicely to Jesus' amplification of his Sermon on the Mount where he details what loving your enemies looks like (it is in Matthew chapter 5 verses 38-48 - Mt5:38-48 for the people who might be wondering about the bible abbreviation structure) He tells us WHY we should do it and why He allows goodness to fall on both the good and evil. It is jam packed with answers! Luke 6:27-35 talks of turning the cheek, the value of all the cheek turning to the Christian and is where we get the "Do unto others as we would have others do unto us" saying. (any curious readers?: Luke is the third book in the New Testament-- Matthew, Mark then Luke which is one of the 4 Gospel books(Gospel loosely meaning good news about Christ and what he did for us).
Trigger warning (smirk): Tangentially, there is another verse out there about (as a Christ follower) being a good slave. That will enrage people these days. Makes me laugh thinking of it.
Oooo, speaking of amplification and Jesus......
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6WzSH9-9pw Parks is a Florida boy so there you go. Enjoy.
And of that is not enough for you:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9lKTj2pk90
Kinda Florida funky.
Later Jay
It is a moderating consideration designed to keep us from tearing down our own houses at the first flash of gun powder. Think of it as an anti-Snow Flake measure as a sort of wrath inhibitor. In short, we need not go to war over every little trifle of offense. Wisdom is always needed in the application of Scripture. And one verse of Scripture can never subtract from or undo the continuity of Scripture from Alpha to Omega.
I think what I stated above applies here as well; we show no open retribution or revenge, rather we pray for their spirits to awaken to the truth of God in them. We are commanded, in the Lord’s parader, to forgive them of their offenses as we have been forgiven of our sins by God. I don’t think it means to continually allow them to abuse us or others, but rather to use the full extent of the law as it applies to evil-doers. This is not vengeance, but standing up for what is right and true and protecting ourselves and those who need it. I could be wrong, but God didn’t give us a mind and strength to not defend ourselves against brutality.
Like you suggest- we are to pray for our enemies too! Cyn
That's a good point, Janice. I do not find the principle of self-defense anywhere in the Scriptures, but I DO see laying down our lives for someone else. In matters of society, we are to stand up for others and protect them. This often means standing up to, combating, and subduing evil on behalf of others. It is not in the spirit of vengeance, but in the spirit of what Jesus did for us: laying down our lives for others.
Defending the innocent, standing up for justice, protecting widows and orphans, etc.
From my favorite book of the Bible - James.
One of my fave books as well--it puts the "rubber on the road" and "practicalizes" our Christian doctrine.
The right of self-defense is abundant in Scripture. For example, "Thou shalt no kill" as the negative averal implies "thou shalt not be killed" which in turn implies directly the right of self-defense from which in law we get the term 'justifiable homicide'. There are plenty more such examples in the Old Testament, and more up front direct in the taking. And the greatest statue in the world is The David in the Academy in Florence. That would be David in the act of contemplating the slaying Goliath ... all in defense of the Hebrew tribes. So, it is not just self-defense ... but also in defense of the family and the extended family ... and the larger family of the dwelling place called country. And all so that the just (righteous) can live in God's Peace under God's Holy Law Order.
The Fallen Western Church teaches a New Testament divorced from the Old Testament as a sort of schismatic heresy. This teaching is in the character of pure Scofield dispensational nonsense.
My Dad always kept his Scofield Reference Bible handy--it was well worn!!
It's a shame that few Christians would even understand your last two lines.
I think Thou shall not murder is the correct translation. Big difference.
It depends upon which Bible one uses. In the KJV, the Geneva 1599 and the American Standard Version, it is 'Thou shall not kill'. In many other Bibles the word 'murder' is used. But whether it is kill or murder, the understanding by divines is always stated within the context of what is lawful. And whether one reads Luther, Calvin or R. J. Rushdoony, it is always so.
The purpose of the covenantal injunction of the Sixth Commandment is to do no harm to one's neighbor. Hence, the deeper purpose of the Commandment is equally an instruction in how to 'love they neighbor' by doing him no harm or injury, and loving him by living responsibly with one's neighbors in a state of God's Peace. Below is from the Westminster Confession of Faith, larger confession. It illustrates the point.
WLC 135: What are the duties required in the Sixth Commandment?
https://thewestminsterstandards.com/wlc-135-what-are-the-duties-required-in-the-sixth-commandment/
Answer: The duties required in the Sixth Commandment are, all careful studies, and lawful endeavors, to preserve the life of ourselves1 and others2 by resisting all thoughts and purposes3, subduing all passions4, and avoiding all occasions5, temptations6, and practices, which tend to the unjust taking away the life of any7; by just defense thereof against violence8, patient bearing of the hand of God9, quietness of mind10, cheerfulness of spirit11; a sober use of meat12, drink13, physical14, sleep15, labour16, and recreations17; by charitable thoughts18, love19, compassion20, meekness, gentleness, kindness21; peaceable22, mild and courteous speeches and behavior23; forbearance, readiness to be reconciled, patient bearing and forgiving of injuries, and requiting good for evil24; comforting and succoring the distressed, and protecting and defending the innocent.25
So, some say 'murder' is the better usage. But I say neither 'murder' or 'kill' is adequate without expository enlargement. R. J. Rushdoony is probably the most expansive look into the meaning of the Six Commandment. This would be The Institutes of Biblical Law, Vol. 1, pages 219 - 332.
I also recently discovered from the teachings of Mary Magdalene, that we are commanded to love the “spirit” of all God’s children; keeping in mind that not all humans are following God’s Way, at any given time, and thus their spirits are not pure. I take this to mean we are not commanded to love, or tolerate, their human actions, but only their spirits, for they, as do we, have the opportunity to repent and be included in God’s love and compassion. It is a choice for each of us as his creations. This helps me to better accept the evil nature manifested in humans, understanding they have not yet awakened to their true calling by God. It also assures me that God has everything under control. I don’t need to put myself in a position of judgement or revenge; that is God’s alone. I must pray for the evil-influenced spirits to awaken and be reunited with their creator. This generally quells my overwhelming, not-so-divine, human desire to take them out; however righteous it might feel at the time! 😝
It is worth remembering that all humans are God’s creation, but not all of them are His children. Some are children of the devil.
“By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.”
— 1 John 3:10
Thank you, Janice, for shining light on that verse. I'd also suggest one read and contemplate Matthew 13:24-30, the parable of the wheat and the tares ... which explains why both are allowed to grow side-by-side until the harvest ... at which time the tares will be thrown in the fire.
Justice need not be instantaneous to remain justice.
Amen Janice! Not all people are children of God!!!
It will be up to the Righteous King Judge (our risen Savior) to tell who are the "sheep" and who are the "goats" on that "great and mighty White Throne Judgment" .