Yes, God created the animals and loves them dearly. They are a part of His divine creation not to be tortured or abused. Blessed Easter to you BFM but next time, would you be so kind to leave out the..."love eating tasty animals...." part. Thank you most kindly.
Yes, God created the animals and loves them dearly. They are a part of His divine creation not to be tortured or abused. Blessed Easter to you BFM but next time, would you be so kind to leave out the..."love eating tasty animals...." part. Thank you most kindly.
I know and I tell God everyday the animal sacrifices were not a good look in the OT and NT and that the animals are innocent and should have been left alone. Not sure what He thinks of that but I cannot change my heart on that subject. God made me and He knows this too. Avo and bean burger is yummy too. I did a rotation at a few slaughterhouses and it was beyond gruesome. I was crying the whole time at what the animals were actively going through and what was done to them. I was sick everyday through that 3 week rotation.
It should not have happened IMHO. Period. God and I will hash this out in time. Until then, you do you and I will do me. Thank you CC. Blessed Easter to you.
Dean, thank you for your comment but I have no peril to my Soul. I will continue to communicate with my Lord as I do no matter what anyone else says. Please take care of your own Soul and leave mine to me. Blessed Easter to you and yours.
The fate of your soul is not up to you. The fate of you soul is up to God. You are either saved, or you are not, and there is nothing you can DO to determine its fate.
If you think that there is something YOU can DO to detemine your fate, then Christ died in vain. He did for us what we cannot do ourselves, because we are all born in sin, and the only sinless person who ever lived was Jesus, God the Son, who died as a sacrificial atonement for our sins. We can do things to affect our fate while on this earth, but our eternal destiny is in the hands of God, and God only.
Have you read Job? God is God, and you’re not. But, I do understand. I, too, love animals, and nothing gives me more sleepless nights than animal abuse.
Yes I have read Job and find it disturbing that God let Satan do his thing with Job. It hurts my heart to read about it. God already knew the outcome so frustrating at the very least. I have expressed my discontent over this with God and that whole scenario. Thank you for loving the animals as they are part of creation like we are and are a joy to behold.
I talk to Him all the time and I never said He is incorrect. I said we will hash it out. I don't pay attention to being labeled as something. God knows my intentions and my heart/Soul. You label me what you will, it does not matter to me and I do not care what humans think to label me. Wishing you a wonderful weekend, Blessed Easter! Bye CC:}
I find it hurts my heart/Soul to their core. I cannot understand all that God does and will have to accept the fact I will most likely never know or understand His actions.
Two movies on the subject incapsulate it for me (concerning the slaughterhouse);
Earthlings
Temple Grandin
I am not for the disrepect of animals lives in slaugherhouses, and would like all animals who are raised for human consumption to be humanely slaughtered.
Having said that, I can't afford Meriweather Farms and Prepper Beef, at this point in my life, even though I need the protein in my diet.
After the Flood, God told Noah and his family to add meat to their previously all vegetarian diet. I don't know if that is necessary now, but it was at the time.
I respect you for doing what is best for you, Lori.
Thank you for your comment Anita. I met Temple Grandin! She is amazing and is all about animal welfare for CAFO animals and others. She is a Light in the animal industrial complex. It was an honor to meet her and talk with her for a little while. This is a topic that I explain to God I will agree to disagree with Him on the sacrifice of animals and eating them. He made me so He understands my stubbornness on this subject matter. Heavy sigh. Blessed Easter to you and yours.
I would not have realized she even had autism had I not known before meeting her. I would have thought she was just quiet. I will never forgot our meeting as she is one of my heroes.
Im so tired of the vegans. their issue is literally /ALL THEY /SEE. I am descended from NATIVE AMERICANS who ate meat. All Os need to eat meat to stay healthy. Please litigate this issue on your own fora and quit subjecting the rest of us to it.
And I am tired of the likes of you so please litigate your issue on your own fora and quit subjecting the rest of us to it. Peace out and Happy Easter to all. And I never said I was a vegan.
I do not go to church so do not take communion. I have in the past but do not know if that counts to God. So if I die before you, I will try to send a signal and let you know what happened! Egads.
Funny you bring that up. I meant to ask you what spirituality you follow. Are you sure you are really and truly an all in agnostic? All the wonders of the world could not have come from a primordial ooze.
The definition is "a person who holds the view that any ultimate reality (such as God) is unknown and probably unknowable".
I think there must be some force, or even a deity, behind this reality... but I admit, unlike most, that I just don't know.
That's why I can be a bit snarky with people that think that THEY have the ONLY truth... and their "truth" is very narrow, restrictive, sadistic and often, absurd.
I understand. My parents sent me to Lutheran schools as a child. They (the Lutheran schools) drilled into me that all Jewish people would go to Hell bc they did not believe in Jesus. I knew instinctively even at that age this was not right. And you can imagine what they taught me about the Moslems, Buddhists, Hindus and the list goes on. I rejected all that early on knowing that God, at the end of the day, will work it all out even if I do not understand how. I have high hopes that one day the Holy Spirit will fill you with knowledge and truth in your very Soul that God exists. But in the meantime, I appreciate you nonetheless.
Your Christian God demanded animal sacrifices for MANY MANY years, prior to his sacrificing his own son... according to dogma... right?
Imagine how many sheep, lambs, doves, etc, etc were killed to appease Him! Blood thirsty, a bit? Passover-like?
Almost like the primitives sacrificing humans to THEIR "Gods"... no?
Is not communion still the eating of Christ's actual flesh and drinking his blood (according to Catholics), to re-live the blood sacrifice... or at least representative of that (for other Christian dogmas)?
Heavy sigh, God is truly a mystery and parts of the Bible make me very sad for humans and animals alike. I still can't believe God would sacrifice the 1st borns of Egypt as they were children, babies. Most were not even adulterated yet. That is a very hard pill to swallow. Adults are one thing, children, babies are another IMHO. Another heavy sigh. Blessed Easter or Passover to you AD, whichever you celebrate.
Ok, agnostic it is although I hope someday even with the harshness in the Bible you reconsider. But I certainly respect whatever you feel. I assumed you were Christian bc your profile pic reminds me of what Jesus may have looked like. Foolish me, I know.
I never watched the movie. Perhaps I will when I have more free time. Nothing like a real deep down belly laugh as it is good for the body and Soul! I had one the other day and laughed for about 4 minutes straight. It was wonderful.
Keep your heart and mind open for that visit. It will happen! And when it does, you can decide yea or nay. Free will of course.
This is evidence that you don't know God. God is not a man. He is the Creator and He's made a plan and written a story that includes us and is far away and above us. Thankfully He has left many evidences and even a Book about who He is and what His plan for humanity on Earth is about. There's much more that He has done and is doing outside of our ability to know.
Of course He is a man in Spirit form and the Creator RJ! And I do know God, quite well in fact. But yes to all the other comments you made! Enjoy your evening!
we can and do support the END OF THE HORRIBLE SLAUGHTERHOUSE CONDITIONS and animals living healthy happy free lives and still live and let live. without all the guilt and manipulation, hey?
Amen. I think slaughterhouse nastiness needs to end and animals should be raised in optimal conditions, with the cost of meat reflective of their proper care.
I nowhere said I did not respect the eating habits of others. It is not for me. Farmers slaughter all the time so I believe in most cases they are immune to the killing/pain animals go through. It is understandable. Enjoy eating what you wish. As far as our teeth, we do not know exactly what they were like when God created Earth. It may be they adapted/changed over time.
I do not go to church nor Bible study. I have found too many fanatics at churches over the years and have given that up. My church is outside in nature, with the animals and God. Though I would agree that the conversation I would bring up would be stimulating and out of the regular regimen of Bible studies. Have a blessed weekend!
I feel Gods presence and magnificence in Nature. It’s kind of my church. All the churches near me bowed to the so called experts and governments so that I can barely walk into them anymore. Maybe I will someday, but for now, my daily school, so to speak, is in Gods creation. I have had lovely conversations with other hikers. Moments of true discernment and joy. Little miracles displayed when I ask Him if I can see something different or what does He want me to know today. God is good—all the time. My last Bible study had too many woke liberals spouting pro abortion and isn’t it great you have a trans grandkid. I will tell them what it really is when I go next time. Blessings. HE IS Risen. Eat what you like.
Your comment reveals the sad state of the church in the US. The vast majority seem to have a lot in common with the kind you describe, there's no point going to them.
Equally sad for me, I live near several churches that are conservative, they teach and appreciate the Bible, but they seem to want to avoid utilizing what they learn from the Bible. I find that to be at least as frustrating as the liberal churches. I could go on for a while on this topic.
These are interesting times we are living in. That's one reason I enjoy the "Thru the Bible" programs. McGee is good, he's funny, and he is imperfect. I'll yell at him some times given some of his perspectives; he grew up during the depression and died in the 1980's. But when it comes to the true lessons of the Gospels, the man is spot on.
Most people try to bring God down to their level. Personally, if I could bring God down to my level He would be no better than me; I wouldn't waste my time. But God can't be brought down to our level, and we can't comprehend Him and everything about Him. He is too massive and amazing, yet He loves us enough to send His Son to die, and be raised, for us. I can't grasp it mentally but I cling to it spiritually!
I feel very sorry for, and don't understand people who want God to be like them.
So well put. You put into words some of what I feel. I look into the sky and the mystery of it all takes my breath away. That He knows me and Christ cares for me. It’s the unknowing that actually calms me. The unknowing that helps my faith. The words I can’t express because who of us really could? The Holy Spirit must speak for me. Pease and blessings.
So well put indeed! I live in the country, have 15 dogs 3 horses and a cat; I love animals. I'm a meat eater, wish I could be only a veggie eater but I would starve to death.
I say that to echo your words. God's creation is beyond fascinating, it's beyond words. I can't explain Him, but after years of ignoring Him, now I can't ignore Him, and won't live without Him. And I surely can't try to bring Him to my level.
In Hebrews we are told the Son of God was made a little lower than angles; aka human. That's as close as God needed to get to my/our level; I embrace it! Thanks!
Love this Janet. Another kindred Spirit that revels in the joys of Nature and what God created. It is the best church I can think of. Blessings to you also on this Holy Weekend where God made us clean and forgiven. Indeed, He is risen.
I believe staunchly it was not God's intention for us to feast on any kind of flesh until we fell. What passages are those you speak of as I would like to read them WS? God and I will just continue to agree to disagree on this subject matter. It is our sore point.
Interesting. I am reading through the Bible but in the NT right now since it is Holy Week and reading Psalms. I will have to journey back through the Bible's OT to see how accurate that is. I am one of those I prefer to see it straight from the horse's mouth so to speak! Thank you for the info. Perhaps I will start at the flood to find the passages! Blessed Easter to All!
The internet has such wonderful resources for the Bible now.
I had my own bad experiences that separated me from any desire to explore anything ‘Church’ related. But there came a time when I hit rock bottom and this Prodigal Child had to claw her way up and go Home.
I didn’t trust anything to do with anybody explaining things to me at that time either, so it was just me and the Word.
It’s so good to have it at my fingertips on the internet now.
I’ve got a lot of miles on me, many of them spent with the source. And I feel confident in my developed powers of Holy Spirit directed discernment.
You’ll get there!
(I know Satan involves himself in the Church’, but he doesn’t want anything to do with areas that help people understand the Word. He’s all about the ‘cloud it up’ with catchy phrases about ‘love’ and ‘justice’ and ‘feel good’.)
Not just teeth indicating we are omnivores. The digestive tract is designed not as an herbivore's but as a carnivore and the enzymes we generate are designed to accomodate this. Fossil records provide indication of early man's teeth. They didn't change that much.
God explicitly gave us animals to eat after the Fall, but we are to treat them well. We are free to follow our own convictions concerning carnivore vs vegetarian diets, but we aren’t to judge those with different convictions.
One of my favorite bits in Leviticus is the law that they cannot seethe a kid in its mother’s milk. Jewish tradition takes that to mean not mixing milk and meat, but the wording is very specific. I think it means what it says: do not be so hard hearted as to take a baby animal from its mother and then use the mother’s milk to cook it.
Kay, where does it say that explicitly in the Bible? I was reading Genesis today and I it may be that different versions have slightly different translations but this is what I read in Genesis 1 ; 29-30. God said: "See, I give you every seed-bearing plant all over the earth and every tree that has seed-bearing fruit on it to be your food; and to all the animals of the land, all the birds of the air, and all the living creatures that crawl on the ground, I give all the green plants for food." This was before the Fall so it seems to me God's intentions were always for us to eat plants/fruits etc. If you can find the passages you refer to after the Fall, I would so appreciate that. And who is judging anyone's diet? Thank you Kay!
Sorry, it’s in Exodus. I’m reading Leviticus right now. Anyway, it’s Exodus 23:19. It’s just plopped in there, without any apparent relationship to the previous commandment. It could mean that the Israelites were not to slaughter an unweaned animal, but that also would be kind to the animal’s mother.
Yes, before the Fall no animals were killed and eaten, including by the predators. The changes following the Fall were obviously profound, in us and in the animals. God instituted animal sacrifice for sin at that time because He clothed Adam and Eve with the skins, and later Abel sacrificed a lamb and was approved, while Cain brought the fruit of the ground and was not approved. I extrapolate that people began eating meat then, but God explicitly saying that every moving thing that lives shall be food for mankind did not happen until after the Flood (Gen. 9:3).
We know from Gen. 2:17 that death was the penalty for sin. It’s the kindness of God that He permitted animal sacrifice to substitute for human death. One of the horrible things about pagan religions was the practice of human sacrifice. All animal sacrifice points to the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross.
Thank you for that verse. I am content knowing that God's real intention from the beginning was for us to consume only plants and fruits for food before we fell and that is what really matters to me; his first intention and first plan of action. It was also His first and true intention that there would no need for animal sacrifice either as there was no sin before we fell. I believe the verse that says the penalty for sin is death means a Spiritual death, not actual human sacrifice when anyone sinned. If that were the case, the world would have been emptied in hours. I have no doubt that God is saddened by animal sacrifice otherwise He would have asked Adam and Eve to do that right from the start and He did not-Yay!!! He made allowances for us bc we are gullible and selfish. As I always say, He should have stopped on Day 6 after He created the animals as He would have less headaches and stress! As far as human sacrifice, to me, it depends on what the person did to deserve that. If they were killing people like today's serial killers or pedophiles, then good for the pagans-and eye for an eye. If it was just for sacrifices to pagan gods, then they blundered most horribly. Anyway, on a happier note, Blessed Easter to you and yours Kay!
The penalty of death for disobedience meant both spiritual and physical death. God did not create us to die. And there would have been no point in creation if He had not created humans. He made us in His image, and He didn’t do that with the animals. Much as we love the animals, it is a mistake to value them more than humans. I often say that I like animals better than I like people, but liking is different from valuing. If I had a choice between saving an animal or a person, I would have to save the person. God is the one who assigns value to His creation, and He has placed us first.
Human sacrifice was very different from capital punishment. It was the innocent who were killed, often quite horribly.
If you have never read Perelandra by CS Lewis, you might want to. He had an excellent understanding of these things.
May you and yours have a blessed Easter. The Lord is risen!
Yes, God created the animals and loves them dearly. They are a part of His divine creation not to be tortured or abused. Blessed Easter to you BFM but next time, would you be so kind to leave out the..."love eating tasty animals...." part. Thank you most kindly.
You know Jesus himself ate fish and lamb and other critters.
But hey, I enjoy a fine bean-burger too. With a slice of avo.
I know and I tell God everyday the animal sacrifices were not a good look in the OT and NT and that the animals are innocent and should have been left alone. Not sure what He thinks of that but I cannot change my heart on that subject. God made me and He knows this too. Avo and bean burger is yummy too. I did a rotation at a few slaughterhouses and it was beyond gruesome. I was crying the whole time at what the animals were actively going through and what was done to them. I was sick everyday through that 3 week rotation.
Compared to the sacrifice of the Son of God, animal sacrifices were nothing. They pointed the people to the coming, in their day, crucifixion.
Yes. God used the skin of an innocent animal to cover Adam and Eve. The first sign of what was to come. Easter is upon us. Blessings abound!
Animal sacrifices to a "God" is never "nothing"...
They represent a primitive mythology of appeasing a brutal, sadistic and blood-thirsty "God".
JMHO... of course.
It should not have happened IMHO. Period. God and I will hash this out in time. Until then, you do you and I will do me. Thank you CC. Blessed Easter to you.
Your theology rejects huge swaths of the Bible including Romans 10:9 and 10 which is perilous to the soul who ignores them.
Yes,, humans MUST live in fear of broiling in hellfire for eternity... most "religions" run the same SCAM... brings in a ton of loot...
You don't seem to be much different from the Aztecs, to me.
Dean, thank you for your comment but I have no peril to my Soul. I will continue to communicate with my Lord as I do no matter what anyone else says. Please take care of your own Soul and leave mine to me. Blessed Easter to you and yours.
The fate of your soul is not up to you. The fate of you soul is up to God. You are either saved, or you are not, and there is nothing you can DO to determine its fate.
We will respectfully agree to disagree. Blessed Easter to you John and your family.
If you think that there is something YOU can DO to detemine your fate, then Christ died in vain. He did for us what we cannot do ourselves, because we are all born in sin, and the only sinless person who ever lived was Jesus, God the Son, who died as a sacrificial atonement for our sins. We can do things to affect our fate while on this earth, but our eternal destiny is in the hands of God, and God only.
same as above. ty John.
Have you read Job? God is God, and you’re not. But, I do understand. I, too, love animals, and nothing gives me more sleepless nights than animal abuse.
Yes I have read Job and find it disturbing that God let Satan do his thing with Job. It hurts my heart to read about it. God already knew the outcome so frustrating at the very least. I have expressed my discontent over this with God and that whole scenario. Thank you for loving the animals as they are part of creation like we are and are a joy to behold.
So you think God is wrong, correct? If so, why do you try to talk to Him? From my vantage you seem to be a humanist who identifies as a Christian.
Judge not... or broil in hell.
Forget that part?
I talk to Him all the time and I never said He is incorrect. I said we will hash it out. I don't pay attention to being labeled as something. God knows my intentions and my heart/Soul. You label me what you will, it does not matter to me and I do not care what humans think to label me. Wishing you a wonderful weekend, Blessed Easter! Bye CC:}
👍
The Hebrew God demanded them...
Do YOU find His demands to have been abhorrent?
I find it hurts my heart/Soul to their core. I cannot understand all that God does and will have to accept the fact I will most likely never know or understand His actions.
This and much more, was enough of a problem for me to become an agnostic.
IF "God" wants to condemn me for that... I'm OK with it.
Heavy sigh yet again. God loves you, please believe that. I would not lie to you.
You are a very nice gal and I appreciate the thought.
But you cannot know that... still, it is sweet you would think that.
(I do hope so!)
No AD, I really do know that. Please believe me on this. I would stake my life on it I am so sure.
Two movies on the subject incapsulate it for me (concerning the slaughterhouse);
Earthlings
Temple Grandin
I am not for the disrepect of animals lives in slaugherhouses, and would like all animals who are raised for human consumption to be humanely slaughtered.
Having said that, I can't afford Meriweather Farms and Prepper Beef, at this point in my life, even though I need the protein in my diet.
After the Flood, God told Noah and his family to add meat to their previously all vegetarian diet. I don't know if that is necessary now, but it was at the time.
I respect you for doing what is best for you, Lori.
Thank you for your comment Anita. I met Temple Grandin! She is amazing and is all about animal welfare for CAFO animals and others. She is a Light in the animal industrial complex. It was an honor to meet her and talk with her for a little while. This is a topic that I explain to God I will agree to disagree with Him on the sacrifice of animals and eating them. He made me so He understands my stubbornness on this subject matter. Heavy sigh. Blessed Easter to you and yours.
Blessed Easter to you and yours as well.
Never met Temple Grandin, but sure heard a lot about her in my autism classes.
I would not have realized she even had autism had I not known before meeting her. I would have thought she was just quiet. I will never forgot our meeting as she is one of my heroes.
Im so tired of the vegans. their issue is literally /ALL THEY /SEE. I am descended from NATIVE AMERICANS who ate meat. All Os need to eat meat to stay healthy. Please litigate this issue on your own fora and quit subjecting the rest of us to it.
Peace out and HAPPY EASTER to all.
And I am tired of the likes of you so please litigate your issue on your own fora and quit subjecting the rest of us to it. Peace out and Happy Easter to all. And I never said I was a vegan.
You sure like to put up your dukes, eh?
Happy Easter!!
Only when one is insulting/condescending to me first.
Actually eating the innocent lamb WAS THE WHOLE POINT and He is, to those who don't get it, a "bad look"...not that they really care.
No lamb for me, yuck. One sacrifice was enough for a lifetime.
No "lamb of God"??
If you do not partake of that sacrifice... you roast... no?
I do not go to church so do not take communion. I have in the past but do not know if that counts to God. So if I die before you, I will try to send a signal and let you know what happened! Egads.
Yes, put in a good for this poor agnostic, will ya? :-)
Funny you bring that up. I meant to ask you what spirituality you follow. Are you sure you are really and truly an all in agnostic? All the wonders of the world could not have come from a primordial ooze.
The definition is "a person who holds the view that any ultimate reality (such as God) is unknown and probably unknowable".
I think there must be some force, or even a deity, behind this reality... but I admit, unlike most, that I just don't know.
That's why I can be a bit snarky with people that think that THEY have the ONLY truth... and their "truth" is very narrow, restrictive, sadistic and often, absurd.
I understand. My parents sent me to Lutheran schools as a child. They (the Lutheran schools) drilled into me that all Jewish people would go to Hell bc they did not believe in Jesus. I knew instinctively even at that age this was not right. And you can imagine what they taught me about the Moslems, Buddhists, Hindus and the list goes on. I rejected all that early on knowing that God, at the end of the day, will work it all out even if I do not understand how. I have high hopes that one day the Holy Spirit will fill you with knowledge and truth in your very Soul that God exists. But in the meantime, I appreciate you nonetheless.
Your Christian God demanded animal sacrifices for MANY MANY years, prior to his sacrificing his own son... according to dogma... right?
Imagine how many sheep, lambs, doves, etc, etc were killed to appease Him! Blood thirsty, a bit? Passover-like?
Almost like the primitives sacrificing humans to THEIR "Gods"... no?
Is not communion still the eating of Christ's actual flesh and drinking his blood (according to Catholics), to re-live the blood sacrifice... or at least representative of that (for other Christian dogmas)?
Heavy sigh, God is truly a mystery and parts of the Bible make me very sad for humans and animals alike. I still can't believe God would sacrifice the 1st borns of Egypt as they were children, babies. Most were not even adulterated yet. That is a very hard pill to swallow. Adults are one thing, children, babies are another IMHO. Another heavy sigh. Blessed Easter or Passover to you AD, whichever you celebrate.
that is why I am very happy to be an agnostic.
Have a fine Easter Weekend!
PS: Passover?!!?!? Not hardly! Some more harsh truth:
https://x.com/SamParkerSenate/status/1809683142275658155
Ok, agnostic it is although I hope someday even with the harshness in the Bible you reconsider. But I certainly respect whatever you feel. I assumed you were Christian bc your profile pic reminds me of what Jesus may have looked like. Foolish me, I know.
Why reconsider? I am here if God wants to call on me.
My pic is of Lebowski, from the movie. But yes, I agree, and find that a bit humorous...
Oh yes, it sure is. How stupid of me. And yes, God will call on you. He knows the exact timing of when to come for a visit!
nah, not stupid... "The Great Lebowski" is n old flick and not much followed.
I just like his laid-back style and found it to be very funny... and I do not have much of a comedy "gene".
A visit will be welcome.
I never watched the movie. Perhaps I will when I have more free time. Nothing like a real deep down belly laugh as it is good for the body and Soul! I had one the other day and laughed for about 4 minutes straight. It was wonderful.
Keep your heart and mind open for that visit. It will happen! And when it does, you can decide yea or nay. Free will of course.
This is evidence that you don't know God. God is not a man. He is the Creator and He's made a plan and written a story that includes us and is far away and above us. Thankfully He has left many evidences and even a Book about who He is and what His plan for humanity on Earth is about. There's much more that He has done and is doing outside of our ability to know.
Of course He is a man in Spirit form and the Creator RJ! And I do know God, quite well in fact. But yes to all the other comments you made! Enjoy your evening!
we can and do support the END OF THE HORRIBLE SLAUGHTERHOUSE CONDITIONS and animals living healthy happy free lives and still live and let live. without all the guilt and manipulation, hey?
Amen. I think slaughterhouse nastiness needs to end and animals should be raised in optimal conditions, with the cost of meat reflective of their proper care.
God made us, and our teeth clearly show we are designed as omnivores.
As a farmer for many decades, I respect your feelings about food but don't endorse them. Please respect the eating habits of others.
I nowhere said I did not respect the eating habits of others. It is not for me. Farmers slaughter all the time so I believe in most cases they are immune to the killing/pain animals go through. It is understandable. Enjoy eating what you wish. As far as our teeth, we do not know exactly what they were like when God created Earth. It may be they adapted/changed over time.
Lori….I can imagine the conversation you stimulate during refreshments at Bible study. 😁
I do not go to church nor Bible study. I have found too many fanatics at churches over the years and have given that up. My church is outside in nature, with the animals and God. Though I would agree that the conversation I would bring up would be stimulating and out of the regular regimen of Bible studies. Have a blessed weekend!
I feel Gods presence and magnificence in Nature. It’s kind of my church. All the churches near me bowed to the so called experts and governments so that I can barely walk into them anymore. Maybe I will someday, but for now, my daily school, so to speak, is in Gods creation. I have had lovely conversations with other hikers. Moments of true discernment and joy. Little miracles displayed when I ask Him if I can see something different or what does He want me to know today. God is good—all the time. My last Bible study had too many woke liberals spouting pro abortion and isn’t it great you have a trans grandkid. I will tell them what it really is when I go next time. Blessings. HE IS Risen. Eat what you like.
Your comment reveals the sad state of the church in the US. The vast majority seem to have a lot in common with the kind you describe, there's no point going to them.
Equally sad for me, I live near several churches that are conservative, they teach and appreciate the Bible, but they seem to want to avoid utilizing what they learn from the Bible. I find that to be at least as frustrating as the liberal churches. I could go on for a while on this topic.
These are interesting times we are living in. That's one reason I enjoy the "Thru the Bible" programs. McGee is good, he's funny, and he is imperfect. I'll yell at him some times given some of his perspectives; he grew up during the depression and died in the 1980's. But when it comes to the true lessons of the Gospels, the man is spot on.
Most people try to bring God down to their level. Personally, if I could bring God down to my level He would be no better than me; I wouldn't waste my time. But God can't be brought down to our level, and we can't comprehend Him and everything about Him. He is too massive and amazing, yet He loves us enough to send His Son to die, and be raised, for us. I can't grasp it mentally but I cling to it spiritually!
I feel very sorry for, and don't understand people who want God to be like them.
So well put. You put into words some of what I feel. I look into the sky and the mystery of it all takes my breath away. That He knows me and Christ cares for me. It’s the unknowing that actually calms me. The unknowing that helps my faith. The words I can’t express because who of us really could? The Holy Spirit must speak for me. Pease and blessings.
So well put indeed! I live in the country, have 15 dogs 3 horses and a cat; I love animals. I'm a meat eater, wish I could be only a veggie eater but I would starve to death.
I say that to echo your words. God's creation is beyond fascinating, it's beyond words. I can't explain Him, but after years of ignoring Him, now I can't ignore Him, and won't live without Him. And I surely can't try to bring Him to my level.
In Hebrews we are told the Son of God was made a little lower than angles; aka human. That's as close as God needed to get to my/our level; I embrace it! Thanks!
Love this Janet. Another kindred Spirit that revels in the joys of Nature and what God created. It is the best church I can think of. Blessings to you also on this Holy Weekend where God made us clean and forgiven. Indeed, He is risen.
I think in Lori's religion of self, she does all the talking.
Genesis reports that we became meat eaters after the Flood.
I believe staunchly it was not God's intention for us to feast on any kind of flesh until we fell. What passages are those you speak of as I would like to read them WS? God and I will just continue to agree to disagree on this subject matter. It is our sore point.
I ‘Duck, Duck, Go’ed the question; in Genesis when was man first permitted to eat meat.
https://bibleask.org/when-was-man-first-allowed-to-eat-meat/
Interesting. I am reading through the Bible but in the NT right now since it is Holy Week and reading Psalms. I will have to journey back through the Bible's OT to see how accurate that is. I am one of those I prefer to see it straight from the horse's mouth so to speak! Thank you for the info. Perhaps I will start at the flood to find the passages! Blessed Easter to All!
The internet has such wonderful resources for the Bible now.
I had my own bad experiences that separated me from any desire to explore anything ‘Church’ related. But there came a time when I hit rock bottom and this Prodigal Child had to claw her way up and go Home.
I didn’t trust anything to do with anybody explaining things to me at that time either, so it was just me and the Word.
It’s so good to have it at my fingertips on the internet now.
With AI is full force which can be discretely manipulated, I will go straight to the source! I am not as trusting as you unfortunately:{.
I’ve got a lot of miles on me, many of them spent with the source. And I feel confident in my developed powers of Holy Spirit directed discernment.
You’ll get there!
(I know Satan involves himself in the Church’, but he doesn’t want anything to do with areas that help people understand the Word. He’s all about the ‘cloud it up’ with catchy phrases about ‘love’ and ‘justice’ and ‘feel good’.)
So, yes, you do very well to go to the source.
I spent about 5 years as a vegetarian in my hippie days. 50+years ago
Cooked and prepared food mostly guided by The Ten Talents cookbook. (Seventh Day Adventist author) I remember very tasty experiences.
That book is still available on Amazon, but quite expensive!
Not just teeth indicating we are omnivores. The digestive tract is designed not as an herbivore's but as a carnivore and the enzymes we generate are designed to accomodate this. Fossil records provide indication of early man's teeth. They didn't change that much.
Thanks CC but I would need to see the fossils myself along with the enzymes if they are preserved. Appreciate you and your comment as always though!
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God explicitly gave us animals to eat after the Fall, but we are to treat them well. We are free to follow our own convictions concerning carnivore vs vegetarian diets, but we aren’t to judge those with different convictions.
One of my favorite bits in Leviticus is the law that they cannot seethe a kid in its mother’s milk. Jewish tradition takes that to mean not mixing milk and meat, but the wording is very specific. I think it means what it says: do not be so hard hearted as to take a baby animal from its mother and then use the mother’s milk to cook it.
Kay, where does it say that explicitly in the Bible? I was reading Genesis today and I it may be that different versions have slightly different translations but this is what I read in Genesis 1 ; 29-30. God said: "See, I give you every seed-bearing plant all over the earth and every tree that has seed-bearing fruit on it to be your food; and to all the animals of the land, all the birds of the air, and all the living creatures that crawl on the ground, I give all the green plants for food." This was before the Fall so it seems to me God's intentions were always for us to eat plants/fruits etc. If you can find the passages you refer to after the Fall, I would so appreciate that. And who is judging anyone's diet? Thank you Kay!
Sorry, it’s in Exodus. I’m reading Leviticus right now. Anyway, it’s Exodus 23:19. It’s just plopped in there, without any apparent relationship to the previous commandment. It could mean that the Israelites were not to slaughter an unweaned animal, but that also would be kind to the animal’s mother.
Yes, before the Fall no animals were killed and eaten, including by the predators. The changes following the Fall were obviously profound, in us and in the animals. God instituted animal sacrifice for sin at that time because He clothed Adam and Eve with the skins, and later Abel sacrificed a lamb and was approved, while Cain brought the fruit of the ground and was not approved. I extrapolate that people began eating meat then, but God explicitly saying that every moving thing that lives shall be food for mankind did not happen until after the Flood (Gen. 9:3).
We know from Gen. 2:17 that death was the penalty for sin. It’s the kindness of God that He permitted animal sacrifice to substitute for human death. One of the horrible things about pagan religions was the practice of human sacrifice. All animal sacrifice points to the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross.
Thank you for that verse. I am content knowing that God's real intention from the beginning was for us to consume only plants and fruits for food before we fell and that is what really matters to me; his first intention and first plan of action. It was also His first and true intention that there would no need for animal sacrifice either as there was no sin before we fell. I believe the verse that says the penalty for sin is death means a Spiritual death, not actual human sacrifice when anyone sinned. If that were the case, the world would have been emptied in hours. I have no doubt that God is saddened by animal sacrifice otherwise He would have asked Adam and Eve to do that right from the start and He did not-Yay!!! He made allowances for us bc we are gullible and selfish. As I always say, He should have stopped on Day 6 after He created the animals as He would have less headaches and stress! As far as human sacrifice, to me, it depends on what the person did to deserve that. If they were killing people like today's serial killers or pedophiles, then good for the pagans-and eye for an eye. If it was just for sacrifices to pagan gods, then they blundered most horribly. Anyway, on a happier note, Blessed Easter to you and yours Kay!
The penalty of death for disobedience meant both spiritual and physical death. God did not create us to die. And there would have been no point in creation if He had not created humans. He made us in His image, and He didn’t do that with the animals. Much as we love the animals, it is a mistake to value them more than humans. I often say that I like animals better than I like people, but liking is different from valuing. If I had a choice between saving an animal or a person, I would have to save the person. God is the one who assigns value to His creation, and He has placed us first.
Human sacrifice was very different from capital punishment. It was the innocent who were killed, often quite horribly.
If you have never read Perelandra by CS Lewis, you might want to. He had an excellent understanding of these things.
May you and yours have a blessed Easter. The Lord is risen!
We will respectfully agree to disagree on some issues Kay and that is ok. Take good care, stay healthy and Yes, The Lord is risen!