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Dennis Sheirs's avatar

Jeff as a pastor I have found that pride events evoke a wide range of emotions. To add to all this 31% of evangelicals support pride events and think it's time to change Christian ethics on this topic. They say Jesus would be marching with them waving a rainbow flag. They use the line that Jesus dined with sinners. The problem is they miss the point that Jesus met people where they were at but never participated in the sin. We are all sinners in need of God's grace. God abhors all sin.

The only difference is as a Christian we call on the Holy Spirit to help us overcome our sinfulness, we don't have parade to celebrate it. I love everyone and everyone is welcome in the church once you accept Christ you are supposed to sever ways with the old life an begin a new. Pastors have spent so much time shouting GRACE but whispering repentance. Saved by God's grace is true but we must repent and put down our wicked ways. Loving someone means showing them they are taking a path of self-destruction.

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Roger Beal's avatar

Dennis, I believe many evangelicals (and Catholics) have cleaved Jesus' instructions into two parts, and discarded the one which is harder to follow. Dozens of times, our Lord spoke to sinners, saying "You are forgiven" (part one). "Now go and sin no more" (part two, the hard part). Certain pastors have discovered they can increase the size of their congregations by omitting part two. And we all know that head count defines pastoral success, don't we ....

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Anthony's avatar

Exactly. A lefty person I know tried to use part 1 on me, and when I followed up with part 2 she didn't have anything else to say.

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Sharon Beautiful Evening's avatar

The Word is PERFECT and sharper than any "two edged sword"!! SO SAITH "THE WORD".

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Dennis Sheirs's avatar

For most pastors the answer is to your question is yes. I'm called to make disciples. I am very blessed to lead a church not focused on membership but focused on serving the Lord. I remind people that the Bible doesn't say anything about being a member of a church. It's an Ekklēsia .

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Roger Beal's avatar

Our pastors and our church's growth both prove the truth of your statement. When the word is truthfully, clearly, boldly preached, the Lord provides the (congregational) increase. Sola scriptura.

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Bitesandpieces's avatar

Yes, and Jesus didn’t come to give us a religion.

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ViaVeritasVita's avatar

a calling out

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RJ Rambler's avatar

Jesus alone had/has the power to save those who He knew before the beginning. We have no such power but to point them to Him. Sin kills, eternally. God hates those who despise His Word His way.

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Johnny Be Real's avatar

Are many just starting to say that deviant sexual practice is not sin? So just ignore it? Really asking your opinion because I don’t know.

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Roger Beal's avatar

There are stories across the internet of churches, many of which are ELCA or PC (USA) or Anglican or evangelical nondenominational, affirming "gay but not acted on" sexuality. Some have gone so far as to employ pastors who hew to that line. "Being homosexual is fine just so long as you do not act on your impulses". This fits into the broader definition of "carnal Christianity", wherein sinners take cover under Jesus' overarching forgiveness, but ignore His commands to repent and sin no more. From what four PCA pastors tell me, this is a growing trend - mainly in American and UK churches. But it does not end there.

The blessing of openly homosexual unions are openly dividing the Anglicans: https://religionnews.com/2023/02/16/we-cannot-walk-with-you-unless-you-repent-african-archbishops-tell-church-of-england/

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Annie's avatar

That church has been infiltrated.

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Willing Spirit's avatar

Sadly, the Catholic Church may have started that. They say you may not be able to not have same sex attraction, but it is a sin to act on it.

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SusanMc's avatar

Look forward to responses here.

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Willing Spirit's avatar

I’ve seen it claimed that the Bible statements in regards to perverted sex are now disproven by SCIENCE. Like the inspired writers (and the inspiration from God) were ignorant and now we know better.

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Seeking Grace's avatar

@47Yinzer “Dennis, I believe many evangelicals (and Catholics) have cleaved Jesus' instructions into two parts, and discarded the one which is harder to follow.” I would posit it’s a problem that *all* believers can fall prey to, not just evangelicals and Catholics. Is there a reason why you think those two categories are more prone to that?

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Roger Beal's avatar

All *can* fall prey, but not *all* do so readily. Many congregations in the named denominations have made public statements supporting "carnal Christianity". Many ELCA and Anglican churches in the USA are bleeding membership. There are many comments posted by those members who fled to congregations that proclaim open belief in sola scriptura. I could introduce you to a few of these good folks up here in the Appalachian mountains of Georgia.

Listen to preaching online from pastors in various denominations. You decide who is cherry-picking the gospel.

Either it is all true as the divinely breathed word of God, or none of it is true. Fallen men do not have the luxury of abiding just by the easy commands and covenants.

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ViaVeritasVita's avatar

Huh--the narrow path is too tight to get into

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Annie's avatar

They probably got vaxxed too.

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Natalie's avatar

Liberals always love to tell the story of how Jesus stopped the woman caught in prostitution from being stoned. They never repeat his final words to her: "Go and sin no more."

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Julie Ann B's avatar

Thank you for sharing your thoughts! I agree with you 💯! Christians are to be set apart not embracing sin. We are all sinners in need of forgiveness but the sin needs to recognized as sin against our Holy and righteous God!

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Willing Spirit's avatar

And repentance includes the sincere desire and effort to sin no more.

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c Anderson's avatar

Flaunting sexuality in public to get your rocks off is objectifying all of us! Just stop it! The teacher instructing students on sexual pleasuring is perversely pleasured and receiving taxpayer dollars for it! Just stop it! Stop all of it! Parents need to start parenting and so do grandparents.

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William's avatar

"Jesus met people where they were at but never participated in the sin."

Excellent point!

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Annie's avatar

You have rinos- republican in name only. You have cino - Christian in name only.

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WP William's avatar

Cultural christians is what the term used to be but ChINO or ChristNo is good too

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PamelaZelie's avatar

In my Church we call them Cafeteria Catholics.

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Based Florida Man's avatar

Excellent clarification.

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Raptor's avatar

I utterly agree. The point of contention comes when people want to banish some who are openly and happily sinning and ignoring other openly and happily committed sinners. I wonder how pastors deal with this. Can you shed some light on this? How does the pastor deal with an openly gay couple v a couple living together out of wedlock or a person who is lying and spreading gossip in the church? I know there would be a call to repent and to help them, but what if they don't want help? Do all have to be set to the side, do all get a pass or do we pick and choose?

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Natalie's avatar

That's a difficult question. Certainly a couple living together out of wedlock should be confronted with their sin, as they used to be. (An openly gay couple would probably not come to my church because it is known to be conservative.) I know that my pastor will not marry a couple unless they commit to living apart until the wedding. I can tell you that a number of people have left our church because of this.

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Raptor's avatar

I think that is such a good idea. At the very least it helps draw the line of before as two and then together as one going ahead in life bound in the Lord. I am sure it gets tricky when the couple has children, a home... but even so, time apart and then coming together to commit to each other before God is the better way for the couple and the church for integrity toward the Word of God.

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Dennis Sheirs's avatar

Excellent question. I can only answer for the church I am at. We follow what Paul teaches in 1 Corinthians about dealing with open sin in the church. If it is known sin I speak with the person or persons (Baptized born again believers) on the matter and give them a chance to change. If the person or persons say yes and don't change they are asked to leave the congregation this done by an elders vote. In my twenty years we have only removed 2 people from the church, others when approached left on their own.

If an openly gay couple came into the church I would welcome them and let them know that God views their life choice as a sin. No different than any other sin and that to be made whole in Christ you would have to turn away from your lifestyle. Being truthful is showing someone love. As disciples of Christ we are called into making our lives more like Jesus. Jesus was without sin.

There are a lot of pastors, today, that don't worry about the open sin in the church. They like to point out that God will sift the church. I believe this is true for those who tell God yes but then don't ever do what they promise to do (Matthew 21:28-32). I have had people leave the church on their own, especially when I preach on sin.

I am not a fire and brimstone preacher, but God didn't tell us to just honor what we feel good about and don't worry about the rest. The idea of love God and love people is that is if you love God you will want to obey his commands, if you love people you will to unto them as you would then to do you.

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Jeff C's avatar

Thanks for commenting here Pastor, and appreciate your faithfulness to God's Word.

I understand that you aren't a fire and brimstone preacher, but fire and brimstone are in the Bible. I agree that it shouldn't be the focus but it does need to be taught.

One of the things I love about attending a chapter by chapter, verse by verse church is that if forces the pastor to teach on topics that they might rather skip. God is just, and a just God does punish sin. People may not want to hear it, and it may cause people to leave the church, but it's truth. It's plainly stated in God's Word. If people aren't squirming in the pews on occasion then we aren't being faithful to teaching the full counsel of God.

Anyways, not meant to be critical and I know you have an incredibly difficult job and I'm thankful for your ministry. When teaching about Hell my pastor has said, "I don't like teaching about this part, or frankly even talking about it, but I must as it's in God's Word". His point wasn't that God made a mistake in putting it in the Bible, but the opposite. God's Word forces us to deal with things that our fallen human nature would rather not. God bless.

(Note: I am not Jeff Childers, but have a similar name)

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RunningLogic's avatar

Great post!

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Thoughtful's avatar

I so wish you (or pastors like you) were leading churches in my neck of the woods. It's so hard to find leaders that are lovingly faithful to the Word. I don't need fire and brimstone... but I can't tolerate unfaithfulness to His Word.

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Raptor's avatar

I read Dennis's reply to my husband. We both at the same time said "I wish her preached here!"

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Raptor's avatar

Thank you for that thorough response. It shocked me a little that you followed up on removing people from your church after giving them time to reconsider their open sin. It is refreshing and I know it has to be hard (but necessary for your flock's sake) to do. God's sifting is only one side of the equation. I think pastors do their church a disservice - harm really, when you keep repentance and discipleship on the back burner. Including discipleship to the potential tares in church!

Your church is blessed to have you as their pastor.

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Raptor's avatar

and I'd like to clarify. I used out of wedlock as a comparison to two gay ppl cohabbing because they are similar and that "shaking up" used to be seriously condemned and now is accepted as normal.

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Willing Spirit's avatar

Yes, I fought in the Sexual Revolution of the 60s and 70s that tore morality apart and I can’t express the level of regret I feel for having succeeded. It might be considered the beginning of the slide down the slippery slope we now have to deal with.

Yes, men and women should not have sexual relations outside of wedlock. It is wrong. But women said, “Oh, we want to!” And men said, “What a great idea!”

And here we are. So many murdered babies and destroyed lives later.

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Raptor's avatar

An honest feeling of regret so many ladies have now. If only we had kept it to be treated fairly and equally with equal opportunities.. We can only go forward and try to mend it.

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CStone's avatar

The Bible openly calls homosexuality an ‘abomination’.

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Raptor's avatar

Yes it does CStone. It also calls lying and haughtiness an abomination. And all sin (in general) is seen as equally bad in God's eye. He wants it all to be rooted out and for us all to seek to become like Christ every single day (with the help of the Holy Spirit). Even just one sin separates us from God. I thank God for sending his only begotten perfect son down to die for our sins. Only His blood covers our sin completely and eternally. As you probably well know, but for those who don't.... we are all sinners needing forgiveness. If you repent of your sins (meaning turn away from them and stop doing them and accept Christ died for your sins and rose again in glory taking your punishment you deserve (death). And giving you eternal life with HIM! What a gift! One we don't deserve!

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WP William's avatar

but progressive people are NICER than God, archaic views and norms may be freely discarded and NEW Morality instituted; Earthcare over Birthcare; Jesus is cool with miscarriages and abortions i've heard it said

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Willing Spirit's avatar

And in that, it differs from heterosexual relations. A man and woman can marry and mate with the blessing of heaven. This will never be true of two men or two women. I didn’t say it. God did.

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Dr Linda's avatar

I look forward to a response to this question.

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Willing Spirit's avatar

I know many ex-Catholics who left the church over being told they can’t remarry without the process of annulment and certainly ‘shacking up’ would be an issue.

I’ve also known a couple of situations where people claimed to be living together like brother and sister. That is highly suspect and they are advised against such temptation.

I think if a church is true to the Gospel, it will be naturally repellent to unrepentant sinners who want confirmation from a church.

I do wonder how many unrepentant sinners are drawn into the churches with the “Love is Love, Science is Real, blah, blah, blah🤮” signs posted out front.

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Sharon Beautiful Evening's avatar

Dennis--PRAISE JEHOVAH GOD - you are a REAL pastor!! May YAHWEH continue to instill His precepts in your soul so you can SHOUT THEM FROM THE PULPIT and pray them to your congregants.

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Dennis Sheirs's avatar

Amen. Thank you. We need more Christ followers like you. God said there will always be remnant.

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Sharon Beautiful Evening's avatar

I was fortunate to sit under the preaching and teaching of TRUE BIBLE SCHOLARS - they were not from "seminaries" - they tutelaged themselves and had some assistance from other, older Bible scholars. The pastor of my "younger years and early adulthood", C. Jack Orr, was a very persistent and expository preacher...we studied the Bible "word by word, verse by verse" in both "Sunday School" and the "worship service". I don't believe there's much of that kind of preaching done anymore--the Bible talks about THAT in prophetic passages as well...."the preachers with itching ears"...I'm sure you know to what passage I'm referring, Dennis.

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Bitesandpieces's avatar

Life presents numerous trials. They are not always going to be easy ones. He knows the outcomes of those trials. It is we that need to know our faith in those trials. God never coddles His people, nor does He wink at their sin. Each day our integrity is tested in many ways. We should ask the Lord to help us be aware of those times and to make choices that honor Him.

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Oregon Kathy's avatar

Read Eric Metaxas book Letter to the American Church for deep insights into this.

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Peter GL's avatar

Christ did dine with sinners, but afterwards told them to "go and sin no more". Our modern day sinners (myself at times included - I'm no slouch when it comes to sin - I enjoy a good sin as much as the next guy) seem to forget and ignore this second part!

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Lisa Ca's avatar

Amen Pastor. That is one of the lies the devil loves to use. He is so good at twisting the truth…. loving someone and celebrating are two completely different things.

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Jay Horton's avatar

Dennis,

The first paragraph rocks the house, Man.

Later Jay

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ViaVeritasVita's avatar

Thank you, Pastor Sheirs! Thank you, thank you.

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Jun 2, 2023
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Mary H.'s avatar

“Pride is a sin that affects all people and has been the cause of tremendous misery throughout human history.2 It is delusional, spiteful, and bitter, and at its root, it declares that "I don't want God to be God.0 I want to be God!" Pride becomes sinful when it is excessively self-focused and self-elevating, the opposite of the virtue of humility, which is the appropriate posture people ought to have with God. According to the Bible, pride becomes sinful when it is excessively self-focused and self-elevating.”

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CStone's avatar

“Pride goes before destruction

and a haughty spirit before a fall”

Proverbs 16:18

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RunningLogic's avatar

Maybe we need flags and banners with that passage on them to display during the month of June 🤔

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RunningLogic's avatar

We could even put rainbows on them 😬

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Jun 2, 2023
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Mary H.'s avatar

The very idea that they use the rainbow as a symbol is an intentional mockery of God’s promise to humanity.

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Willing Spirit's avatar

I’ve got to borrow this from another commenter.

“There is a reason the LGBTQ+ community is using the rainbow as their symbol. Blasphemy is their bread and butter. Not only that, but the intention from this symbolism is to transform the world, on their terms this time, into a gender-less, Godless, wicked society. They covet and strive to birth unnatural abominations into this world and to normalize them as an affront to the creator because they hate God with a burning passion.”

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Mary H.'s avatar

This is a spiritual battle… we all know who wins .

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WP William's avatar

I witnessed the most beautifully vivid rainbow yesterday evening; truly magnificent!

The rainbow flag(s) are more repugnant than a pile of manure or a puddle of vomit

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Annie's avatar

Yup. Couldn't have said it any better.

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