I hope you will answer this question for me. It's really important for future work.
I believe mail in "voting" violates the Equal Protection Clause. Why?
A walk in voter must present ID to even get a ballot and the ballot remains either in his possession or the possession of the county forever. Perfect Chain of Custody.
A mail in "voter" does not have to present ID to get a ballot and NO One knows who actually gets it, votes it, signs it and returns it. The ballot leaves the possession of the voter and the county and chain of custody is forever broken. It cannot be re-established because someone at the county determines a signature, after the fact, establishes identity or chain of custody.
What say you? Do I have an arguable case? Would you take it?
There is a way, it is called the Initiative. Look in your state's constitution. It should have something similar to what is in Arizona's Constitution. AZ Consti Article 4, Part 1, Section 1, sub para 8 reserves the power of the initiative to the electors at County level and below. It is supremely important power reserved to the people, but only if we know and use it. See it here: https://www.azleg.gov/const/4/1.p1.htm Read the whole thing, to understand how the creators of the Constitution created legislative power for us.
I'm working on a plan.... I will see how many people on here are even interested in becoming the "boots on the ground" required to successfully implement retaking our elections from those who have stolen them from us.
My now ex-husband and I used to be members (for a short time) of a group called Global Prosperity Group. They were similar to the John Birch Society and taught that once you get a Social Security number, you become a slave of the Federal Corporation known as the United States Federal Government, and are therefore subject to the laws of that entity, which exists in Washington D.C. I think that’s why anyone who commits a “crime” within the city limits of Washington D.C. gets the book thrown at them. J6 and abortion clinic protesters certainly come to mind…
What makes anyone think that the Federal Power should have anything whatsoever to do with any elections? Was this ever so with the original organic Constitution for the United States? And yes, the difference between 'for' as found in the original organic constitution 'for the United States', and the 'of' as to the corporate replacement constitution is key and telling. 'For' implies outside agency acting up (as in drafting and ratifying as constitution), while 'of' implies inside and independent of outside agency (as in a corporation drawing up corporate by-laws as its rule of law).
Is the created creature greater than the creator? The Bible asks this question and its a doozy. The echo of the question is ... 'is the federated government greater than the states' which created it? (It thinks it is and acts so. And because this matter as to source of constitutional authority is never questioned, functionally and by praxis the Federal government acts the part of the tyrannical power at large. As stated above, the Big Lie was and is carefully concealed in the difference between two prepositions, 'for' and 'of'. And hardly a soul notices.
I think the power to conduct elections at County level is there for a reason. It is the closest to the Sovereign Citizens. We can overcome their theft of our election systems one county at a time through the Initiative process which they have tried to write out of existence or if not write it out, make it appear that it has been written out. And there is not a damn thing the state or feds can do about it about we citizens conducting Initiatives, they cannot even overcome the outcome of the election which would implement.
Still, Im wanting to know how the 14th's Equal Protection Clause might help us.
I don't know what NCLB means. But I do know that most people do not have a ghost of a chance as to acting upon the world in their own behalf because the most important things to know in life are suppressed, particularly as to pertinent game changing information.
I also know that it is almost impossible to disabuse people of what they think they know by bringing to light what they don't know, and therefore what they have never considered. And in the world of politically ordered chaos it is Out of Sight, Out of Mind which rules supreme in the body politic. The system is design on purpose to achieve this Alice in Wonderland effect of never knowing the true basis of one existence.
What is even more depressing is that because we learn in bits and pieces of information stretched out over many years, the tipped over apple cart of mis-education cannot readily be corrected in just a few fell sentences. And thus better and more proper knowledge, that which takes decades to understand never stands a chance of ever being implemented.
Having studied the General Assembly of Virginia in a stretch of four to five years intensely, and as to the above, I have determined for myself that those who are 'elected' are as clueless as the rest of the population. And that is the overwhelming most of them. Why is this? It is because that they too were mis-educated within the same system of mis-education as the rest of us. And again, Out of Sight, Out of Mind thus rules supreme in most of the 'ruling class'.
The Western World, the world I know the most about, is one giant cattle herding operation. And the Eastern saying of 'he who knows doesn't say' applies as to those who rule from behind the curtain. And even they the Supreme Ruling Class of the tiny fraction of a fraction of less than once percent, I suspect that they too are horribly very wrong footed in their intellectual organization.
NCLB is No Child Left Behind, Bush Jr’s initiative to set national K-12 academic standards. Eventually, Obama’s Race to the Top gutted game changing information from math, English, social studies, and civics classrooms. At the same time, it imprinted at least two generations with woke history and trash science. Too bad Indoctrination doesn’t come with instructions on how indoctrination works and how to escape it.
We let the powers take the Ten Commandments off campus and the Bible out of kids’ literature. We pretended there is no God and indoctrinated a generation of teachers who are now indoctrinating the next. History tells us the cycle is about as low as it can get, but the upswing is beginning. We witnessed a miracle at the polls, and Obama is incensed. Each of us helped make that happen, and we need to keep pushing. I imagine things will get uglier, but they’ve already made and keep making fatal mistakes.
History does show that every cross section of humanity contains good, mediocre, and rotten people. Our government literally represents that. I figure our representatives have more high-priced temptations than most of us, and therefore shorter shelf lives. We need to be better people, and our representatives need to be refreshed more often.
Thank you. Nicely put. My only possible ground for pause is that things could go much, much worse should the forces of trending reversal fail to cut mustard. And so, the next four years are make or break. But if the next four years are just a cosmetic rejiggering of an already failed system, then the only reasonable expectation would be an Indian Summer interlude along what has been a long incline of slide.
I just watched this from Tucker Carlson on the devolution of California. And it confirms about what I had suspected all along. I am sure you will draw the proper conclusions possible in going beyond the material presented.
To me, it is a clear cut violation of the Equal Protection Clause, but I'm a Soldier, not a Lawyer. I'm convinced mail in voting was created to ensure wholesale election fraud was enabled and that a large pool of ballots would be available. Its why NGO spend so much time registering people - most of whom are low information people who don't intend to vote and many of whom are illegal and cannot even legally vote but due to the Federal Post Card Voter Registration, don't have to provide Documentary Proof of Citizenship. There are plenty of corrupt "county recorders" who do not care to verify.
Small precincts and strict limitations on mail-in ballots would take a load of slop out of the system. Between four of us working the general election, we knew most of our voters by name before they walked in, and they knew us. That’s pretty close to accountability. Next level up is the county election admin, now a friend, but not yet friendly enough for me to say, “Open the books and show me how you verified citizenship for our new voters.” (Most of that verification happens at the SOS leveI, and that's a hard nut to crack.) I don’t want to strongarm my admin or the SOS. I want to trust, but I’m dying to verify. Suggestions?
RH, It is the responsibility of each county recorder to verify citizenship of anyone registered to vote in their county. I would ask nicely to explain and demonstrate how each registered voter's citizenship was verified and including how they verify voters put on the voter rolls by outside agencies like MVD and SOS. If she/he doesn't comply, do a very specific and detailed Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request. That is not a strong arm request - although gubmint employees hate answering them because it makes them at least a little accountable.
You may not like what Im going to say next, but we are actually at the point where strong arm requests must be used if "nice" doesn't work. These people are elected, as employees, by us to do the work we pay them to do - they are not our friends. Many of them have summarily stolen our election processes from us with unchecked registration, connection of voter rolls to outside databases, ridiculous "signature verification" schemes which is not, and can never be legitimate verification, programmable machines and mail in voting never approved by the Citizens. (this is all based on the s_Election system currently in use in Arizona to steal elections.) Yours may not be as grotesque.
Thank you, DL. Working up the boldness to do that very thing. Prayers up for many of us to follow suit. “For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind” (2 Timothy 1:7).
Nothing has changed in our SELECTION system in the 21st century: Money talks while B.S. walks. Should you exhibit hostility or lack fealty toward our un-ELected owners you will be summarily be "un-ELectedL". As long as the money flows unchecked we will not be able to fairly elect our leaders.All else is an American Fairy Tale.
Under attack forever, at the very least. If we vote, I think we largely elect people of apparent honor and character, and then we get busy living our lives. But even good people get lobbied and corrupted. Exhibit 1, John Cornyn. There's no substitute for constant vigilance.
re: largely elect people of apparent honor and character... I'm not so sure RH. Within the DNA of every politician lies the "con-artist" gene.
I do agree with constant vigilance.
I do think we are at a point where increased use of 2A vigilance is necessary. Yes, by the Divine Intervention of God, we got Trump across the finish line - but there were a whole lot of seats up and down the ticket stolen, during and after the election, and most folks are acting oblivious because we got Trump back.
Sure, cheaters always cheat, but across the country, there were a lot of seats won too. Way I see it, a lot of us worked our tails off to get Trump elected, and God magnified our efforts just like He says He will. But if we walked 20 miles into the woods, we’re not walking out in 10. Even so, we have a lot of top quality people getting into position behind Trump. I mentioned General Flynn somewhere recently. He’s back, and he has a long memory. I say keep your powder dry but hold fire while certification and inauguration play out. https://x.com/GenFlynn/status/1865523829478469915
RE: lots of seats won. I'm not so sure. I think there are a few states who have legit elections. I don't think most are. If you have machines and no reason mail in ballots, your elections are not elections, they are s_Elections.
I think those who orchestrate the theft of our elections had to put Trump back, but with majorities who aren't really majorities - else they might have had a civil war on their hands. Dems and RINOs won most seats if you really look, uniparty control is still the norm.
Keeping our powder dry is absolutely the right COA at this moment, while things settle out and we have skills which are rusty or never developed - if we cannot accomplish a UHC CEO type operation, we have no business in that fray - which by the way, Im now convinced the guy they think is the shooter is not - he was a distant part of the operation but was not the trigger man. The "mistakes" the "suspect" made were not mistakes at all.
We must see how deeply Trump is going to go after the swamp, it has to be really deep, he essentially needs to gut most of the federal government and return it to only Constitutionally enumerated powers. DOE and DHS need to go away entirely, they were both created to indoctrinate and surveil among other things like steal elections and over run our borders with people who aren't American and dont have our values or social fabric. So, lets see how many Trump removes, it has to be millions... as far as Im concerned if they came across the border illegally, they need to go back to the country legally and quickly - and this needs to include the thousands brandon flew over the border to violate our sovereignty. And Trump needs to prosecute the brandon admin - I cant wait to see how brandon is going to pardon the entire deep state, and shitbirds like Pelosi. These people cannot be reasoned with, they simply need to be destroyed. That is not bluster, it is not an easy thing to say, I understand the implications.
As for Flynn, no doubt he knows where all the skeletons are, why hasn't Trump brought him on his team?
I don't know that Flynn is NOT on the team. I suspect he and many have been on the team during the interregnum, but I think you're absolutely correct. Deep state calls for deep cleaning and thorough reform or it'll come back like -- what did Jesus say about legion? -- seven fold? I imagine the criminals and mercenaries brandon let in will keep white hats very busy and likely long before they turn their attention to the other millions. But I'm calling the election a miracle, and I expect more to come.
We can take the s_Election system back from them and restore it to the People's ELECTION system. Every county needs to do this - they had no right to take over OUR elections on the premise they were making it easier for us and without getting our consent. Do you have programmable machines? When were they authorized for use and by whom?
It takes "boots on the ground" to create the Initiative, get the required number of electors to sign the petitions required and then making sure EVERYONE in the County understands the intent and purpose of the Initiative and then goes and votes. This includes critically watching to make sure no one can steal the election. Your Initiative should spell out how the election will be conducted. Most county supervisors/employees will not be happy with our efforts as they like determining who does and does not get elected- especially themselves. I do not trust any of them no matter how nice they appear. I do not trust any of them no matter how nice they appear to be - yes I said it twice. Most are either lazy, or corrupt, or corrupt and lazy - and they all think they own us, not vice versa. I am talking about Arizona... yours may be different, but I doubt it.
RE: Fourteenth Amendment’s Equal Protection Clause
Jeff Childers,
I hope you will answer this question for me. It's really important for future work.
I believe mail in "voting" violates the Equal Protection Clause. Why?
A walk in voter must present ID to even get a ballot and the ballot remains either in his possession or the possession of the county forever. Perfect Chain of Custody.
A mail in "voter" does not have to present ID to get a ballot and NO One knows who actually gets it, votes it, signs it and returns it. The ballot leaves the possession of the voter and the county and chain of custody is forever broken. It cannot be re-established because someone at the county determines a signature, after the fact, establishes identity or chain of custody.
What say you? Do I have an arguable case? Would you take it?
Dan
I've been thinking for awhile now that there must be *some* way we could weaponize the Voting Rights Act to equalize voting / neutralize voter fraud.
After all, the Left has used it over and over again to wrestle local control and hand power to the feds.
Fred,
There is a way, it is called the Initiative. Look in your state's constitution. It should have something similar to what is in Arizona's Constitution. AZ Consti Article 4, Part 1, Section 1, sub para 8 reserves the power of the initiative to the electors at County level and below. It is supremely important power reserved to the people, but only if we know and use it. See it here: https://www.azleg.gov/const/4/1.p1.htm Read the whole thing, to understand how the creators of the Constitution created legislative power for us.
I'm working on a plan.... I will see how many people on here are even interested in becoming the "boots on the ground" required to successfully implement retaking our elections from those who have stolen them from us.
My now ex-husband and I used to be members (for a short time) of a group called Global Prosperity Group. They were similar to the John Birch Society and taught that once you get a Social Security number, you become a slave of the Federal Corporation known as the United States Federal Government, and are therefore subject to the laws of that entity, which exists in Washington D.C. I think that’s why anyone who commits a “crime” within the city limits of Washington D.C. gets the book thrown at them. J6 and abortion clinic protesters certainly come to mind…
What makes anyone think that the Federal Power should have anything whatsoever to do with any elections? Was this ever so with the original organic Constitution for the United States? And yes, the difference between 'for' as found in the original organic constitution 'for the United States', and the 'of' as to the corporate replacement constitution is key and telling. 'For' implies outside agency acting up (as in drafting and ratifying as constitution), while 'of' implies inside and independent of outside agency (as in a corporation drawing up corporate by-laws as its rule of law).
Is the created creature greater than the creator? The Bible asks this question and its a doozy. The echo of the question is ... 'is the federated government greater than the states' which created it? (It thinks it is and acts so. And because this matter as to source of constitutional authority is never questioned, functionally and by praxis the Federal government acts the part of the tyrannical power at large. As stated above, the Big Lie was and is carefully concealed in the difference between two prepositions, 'for' and 'of'. And hardly a soul notices.
I think the power to conduct elections at County level is there for a reason. It is the closest to the Sovereign Citizens. We can overcome their theft of our election systems one county at a time through the Initiative process which they have tried to write out of existence or if not write it out, make it appear that it has been written out. And there is not a damn thing the state or feds can do about it about we citizens conducting Initiatives, they cannot even overcome the outcome of the election which would implement.
Still, Im wanting to know how the 14th's Equal Protection Clause might help us.
Slick observations. In that light, it's obvious to anybody who learned how to read pre-NCLB.
Hi~
I don't know what NCLB means. But I do know that most people do not have a ghost of a chance as to acting upon the world in their own behalf because the most important things to know in life are suppressed, particularly as to pertinent game changing information.
I also know that it is almost impossible to disabuse people of what they think they know by bringing to light what they don't know, and therefore what they have never considered. And in the world of politically ordered chaos it is Out of Sight, Out of Mind which rules supreme in the body politic. The system is design on purpose to achieve this Alice in Wonderland effect of never knowing the true basis of one existence.
What is even more depressing is that because we learn in bits and pieces of information stretched out over many years, the tipped over apple cart of mis-education cannot readily be corrected in just a few fell sentences. And thus better and more proper knowledge, that which takes decades to understand never stands a chance of ever being implemented.
Having studied the General Assembly of Virginia in a stretch of four to five years intensely, and as to the above, I have determined for myself that those who are 'elected' are as clueless as the rest of the population. And that is the overwhelming most of them. Why is this? It is because that they too were mis-educated within the same system of mis-education as the rest of us. And again, Out of Sight, Out of Mind thus rules supreme in most of the 'ruling class'.
The Western World, the world I know the most about, is one giant cattle herding operation. And the Eastern saying of 'he who knows doesn't say' applies as to those who rule from behind the curtain. And even they the Supreme Ruling Class of the tiny fraction of a fraction of less than once percent, I suspect that they too are horribly very wrong footed in their intellectual organization.
NCLB is No Child Left Behind, Bush Jr’s initiative to set national K-12 academic standards. Eventually, Obama’s Race to the Top gutted game changing information from math, English, social studies, and civics classrooms. At the same time, it imprinted at least two generations with woke history and trash science. Too bad Indoctrination doesn’t come with instructions on how indoctrination works and how to escape it.
We let the powers take the Ten Commandments off campus and the Bible out of kids’ literature. We pretended there is no God and indoctrinated a generation of teachers who are now indoctrinating the next. History tells us the cycle is about as low as it can get, but the upswing is beginning. We witnessed a miracle at the polls, and Obama is incensed. Each of us helped make that happen, and we need to keep pushing. I imagine things will get uglier, but they’ve already made and keep making fatal mistakes.
History does show that every cross section of humanity contains good, mediocre, and rotten people. Our government literally represents that. I figure our representatives have more high-priced temptations than most of us, and therefore shorter shelf lives. We need to be better people, and our representatives need to be refreshed more often.
Thank you. Nicely put. My only possible ground for pause is that things could go much, much worse should the forces of trending reversal fail to cut mustard. And so, the next four years are make or break. But if the next four years are just a cosmetic rejiggering of an already failed system, then the only reasonable expectation would be an Indian Summer interlude along what has been a long incline of slide.
I just watched this from Tucker Carlson on the devolution of California. And it confirms about what I had suspected all along. I am sure you will draw the proper conclusions possible in going beyond the material presented.
https://rumble.com/v5lnhl7-chris-moritz-how-kamala-gave-california-to-the-cartels-and-the-psychopaths-.html?e9s=src_v1_ucp
That's a clear-eyed glimpse of reality. Make or break into a long slide is probably putting it mildly.
Interesting take!
To me, it is a clear cut violation of the Equal Protection Clause, but I'm a Soldier, not a Lawyer. I'm convinced mail in voting was created to ensure wholesale election fraud was enabled and that a large pool of ballots would be available. Its why NGO spend so much time registering people - most of whom are low information people who don't intend to vote and many of whom are illegal and cannot even legally vote but due to the Federal Post Card Voter Registration, don't have to provide Documentary Proof of Citizenship. There are plenty of corrupt "county recorders" who do not care to verify.
Small precincts and strict limitations on mail-in ballots would take a load of slop out of the system. Between four of us working the general election, we knew most of our voters by name before they walked in, and they knew us. That’s pretty close to accountability. Next level up is the county election admin, now a friend, but not yet friendly enough for me to say, “Open the books and show me how you verified citizenship for our new voters.” (Most of that verification happens at the SOS leveI, and that's a hard nut to crack.) I don’t want to strongarm my admin or the SOS. I want to trust, but I’m dying to verify. Suggestions?
RH, It is the responsibility of each county recorder to verify citizenship of anyone registered to vote in their county. I would ask nicely to explain and demonstrate how each registered voter's citizenship was verified and including how they verify voters put on the voter rolls by outside agencies like MVD and SOS. If she/he doesn't comply, do a very specific and detailed Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request. That is not a strong arm request - although gubmint employees hate answering them because it makes them at least a little accountable.
You may not like what Im going to say next, but we are actually at the point where strong arm requests must be used if "nice" doesn't work. These people are elected, as employees, by us to do the work we pay them to do - they are not our friends. Many of them have summarily stolen our election processes from us with unchecked registration, connection of voter rolls to outside databases, ridiculous "signature verification" schemes which is not, and can never be legitimate verification, programmable machines and mail in voting never approved by the Citizens. (this is all based on the s_Election system currently in use in Arizona to steal elections.) Yours may not be as grotesque.
Thank you, DL. Working up the boldness to do that very thing. Prayers up for many of us to follow suit. “For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind” (2 Timothy 1:7).
Makes sense
Following. I hope he answers too!!
Nothing has changed in our SELECTION system in the 21st century: Money talks while B.S. walks. Should you exhibit hostility or lack fealty toward our un-ELected owners you will be summarily be "un-ELectedL". As long as the money flows unchecked we will not be able to fairly elect our leaders.All else is an American Fairy Tale.
100,000%+++++
The only thing I'd say differently, is that voting has been rigged just about forever.
Under attack forever, at the very least. If we vote, I think we largely elect people of apparent honor and character, and then we get busy living our lives. But even good people get lobbied and corrupted. Exhibit 1, John Cornyn. There's no substitute for constant vigilance.
re: largely elect people of apparent honor and character... I'm not so sure RH. Within the DNA of every politician lies the "con-artist" gene.
I do agree with constant vigilance.
I do think we are at a point where increased use of 2A vigilance is necessary. Yes, by the Divine Intervention of God, we got Trump across the finish line - but there were a whole lot of seats up and down the ticket stolen, during and after the election, and most folks are acting oblivious because we got Trump back.
OK, I’m a little optimistic and far from ready to throw in the towel. We have great news for the Texas House. The old turncoat Speaker lost his chair. The lady next door stood up, paid a price, ran for office, and won it. Check it out. https://trendingpoliticsnews.com/new-salon-owner-jailed-amid-covid-lockdowns-wins-election-mace/
Sure, cheaters always cheat, but across the country, there were a lot of seats won too. Way I see it, a lot of us worked our tails off to get Trump elected, and God magnified our efforts just like He says He will. But if we walked 20 miles into the woods, we’re not walking out in 10. Even so, we have a lot of top quality people getting into position behind Trump. I mentioned General Flynn somewhere recently. He’s back, and he has a long memory. I say keep your powder dry but hold fire while certification and inauguration play out. https://x.com/GenFlynn/status/1865523829478469915
RE: lots of seats won. I'm not so sure. I think there are a few states who have legit elections. I don't think most are. If you have machines and no reason mail in ballots, your elections are not elections, they are s_Elections.
I think those who orchestrate the theft of our elections had to put Trump back, but with majorities who aren't really majorities - else they might have had a civil war on their hands. Dems and RINOs won most seats if you really look, uniparty control is still the norm.
True. “Lots” could be a stretch. Texas flipped several significant State House seats. It’s still a dog fight for Speaker here, and it’s hard to project how the skinny congressional majorities in DC will work out. Looking to the 2026 midterms, Kurt Schlichter has some colorful thoughts. https://townhall.com/columnists/kurtschlichter/2024/12/09/we-need-to-ritually-sacrifice-a-squish-gop-senator-to-encourage-the-others-n2648735
Keeping our powder dry is absolutely the right COA at this moment, while things settle out and we have skills which are rusty or never developed - if we cannot accomplish a UHC CEO type operation, we have no business in that fray - which by the way, Im now convinced the guy they think is the shooter is not - he was a distant part of the operation but was not the trigger man. The "mistakes" the "suspect" made were not mistakes at all.
We must see how deeply Trump is going to go after the swamp, it has to be really deep, he essentially needs to gut most of the federal government and return it to only Constitutionally enumerated powers. DOE and DHS need to go away entirely, they were both created to indoctrinate and surveil among other things like steal elections and over run our borders with people who aren't American and dont have our values or social fabric. So, lets see how many Trump removes, it has to be millions... as far as Im concerned if they came across the border illegally, they need to go back to the country legally and quickly - and this needs to include the thousands brandon flew over the border to violate our sovereignty. And Trump needs to prosecute the brandon admin - I cant wait to see how brandon is going to pardon the entire deep state, and shitbirds like Pelosi. These people cannot be reasoned with, they simply need to be destroyed. That is not bluster, it is not an easy thing to say, I understand the implications.
As for Flynn, no doubt he knows where all the skeletons are, why hasn't Trump brought him on his team?
I don't know that Flynn is NOT on the team. I suspect he and many have been on the team during the interregnum, but I think you're absolutely correct. Deep state calls for deep cleaning and thorough reform or it'll come back like -- what did Jesus say about legion? -- seven fold? I imagine the criminals and mercenaries brandon let in will keep white hats very busy and likely long before they turn their attention to the other millions. But I'm calling the election a miracle, and I expect more to come.
We can take the s_Election system back from them and restore it to the People's ELECTION system. Every county needs to do this - they had no right to take over OUR elections on the premise they were making it easier for us and without getting our consent. Do you have programmable machines? When were they authorized for use and by whom?
It takes "boots on the ground" to create the Initiative, get the required number of electors to sign the petitions required and then making sure EVERYONE in the County understands the intent and purpose of the Initiative and then goes and votes. This includes critically watching to make sure no one can steal the election. Your Initiative should spell out how the election will be conducted. Most county supervisors/employees will not be happy with our efforts as they like determining who does and does not get elected- especially themselves. I do not trust any of them no matter how nice they appear. I do not trust any of them no matter how nice they appear to be - yes I said it twice. Most are either lazy, or corrupt, or corrupt and lazy - and they all think they own us, not vice versa. I am talking about Arizona... yours may be different, but I doubt it.