And how much has Ukraine sucked? China was GIVEN our manufacturing jobs. How much has IRAN sucked? How much has the WORLD sucked? And our TINIEST ally in the ME, the only democratic nation in the ME we can’t be bothered with?
The ignorance about the ME and about Israel is disgusting. And WE are the nation who has aborted more children than any other. And have forced it on other nations as a ‘condition’ of getting financial ‘aid’ packages from us. WE pushed the jab on poor nations.. OUR government is to blame. Until WE clean up our act we have NO right to start on any other nation.........especially Israel
I fail to see how the problems we have at home in the US are in any way a justification for "trusting" the state of Israel. As for "tiny", Israel is probably the most powerful lobby in Washington DC. She has more influence in the politics of our country than your own representatives. How is that in our best interests?
Proof that Israel's own government does not care about their own people! They would sacrifice them in a nano second if it brought those in command more $$$ and power.
Tel Aviv and Jerusalem are just offices for the Zionist/Money Power ... as are a lot of other places ... like New York, City of London, Geneva, Berne, Rome, et alia.
Well said CS Stone. And I admit that the absolute insanity over the god-state in the Middle East has me as offended as I was by the Ukraine, C19 Health Terrorism, and everything else going on with the Empire of Perpetual Warfare since at least the 1990's. Meanwhile, our country goes down the drain.
The "only democratic nation in the ME" that runs the largest open air prison in the world, and while having Arabs constituting 20% of the population only has 8% Arab representation in the Knesset, and there is so much more. Continuous land seizures for settlers, crops systematically destroyed, bombings of and school closings, not to mention bombing hospitals, and use of prohibited munitions like phosphorus. Really the list of crimes against a captive population over the last 70 years is literally too long to list. I'd argue that slogan is nothing more than a Zionist meme.
They are prisoners of Hamas and hezbollah. They are not prisoners of Israel. You canNOT coexist with those who want to destroy you. The feminization of men in this country is appalling. Try to coexist with these same demons who have crossed the US border and are kept up by our taxpayers in hotels, receiving packages of armaments daily. Coexist with that when they come for you and your family.
Your reasoning is flawed. The snake may be scarier than the spider but the spider may be more deadly. Your reasons do not justify your conclusions...or should I say your desired conclusions.
Funny how the repeal of smith mundt allowed the feds to create the news, and own the means of spewing. And now, any country seeking to be just a little free, is baaaad. Vote out a socialist, and one will be appointed for you,everywhere in the world. I’m pretty sure if we have our revolution 2.0, it will wake up the whole world.
The nation that deliberately tried to destroy the USS Liberty in 1967? They were in cahoots with our President (LBJ) to sacrifice our ship and crew, blame Egypt for the attack and allow us to enter a war with Israel against Egypt. 34 men killed, over 150 wounded and the survivors told to shut up and never mention it again or they'd be jailed. Only because one brave sailor was able to run a coax wire and reach out with an SOS in between the strafing and torpedo attacks is what saved the remaining crew. And they all suffer mentally and emotionally since then, as well as having their own country disavow them. Yeah, I don't trust Israel's government OR ours any further than I can thrown them!
CStone, I wouldn't trust either one of the them. And I don't see any need to declare one is better or worse than the other, or more trustworthy than the other. If you honestly feel that way, that's fine, but I don't think we should put ourselves in a corner thinking it's necessary to decide either is the better of the two. It could be true that both are run by sociopaths who have no problem killing anyone to advance their position. Or lying without remorse about what they've done.
Let me add, the only reason some people "trust" Israel is because the 21st century political state we are talking about took the name of the Old Testament culture of the 12 Tribes whose community and state were destroyed by the Romans TWO THOUSAND YEARS AGO. Hello?
But the Romans didn’t destroy them. They were scattered, but never ceased to exist. In fact one of the best pieces of evidence for God is the continued existence of His chosen people throughout the centuries. Every other culture, when emigrating to another country, assimilates within 6 generations (usually fewer than 6) and ceases to exist as a separate ethnic group. The Jews, though, while somewhat assimilating to their new country, never stop being Jewish. Yes, some do, but there is always a remnant. You can’t say that about, for example, Norwegian or Chinese people who move to the US.
Almighty God destroyed Israel Himself. After Christ Jesus fulfilled the Law and completed the Old Covenant, the New Covenant is no respecter of ethnicity. Israel was 'chosen' to be a nation of priests to all mankind, but they were deceived and rejected the very Christ they were waiting for. In short, they rejected their birthright and it was opened up to all mankind through one man...Jesus.
Hi Eliza, thanks for your comment. It's interesting context, in that Romans 11:5 refers to a 'remnant' and in Romans 11:14 Paul expresses a desire to 'save' those of his ethnicity. Romans 11:20 states that the Jews who did NOT believe in Jesus were 'broken off' branches, but gentiles can be saved through faith in Christ Jesus.
Special Ted, He also says that if the ‘wild olive branch’ (Gentiles) that was grafted into the cultured tree (Israel) boasts against the cultured branch, then that wild olive branch will be cut off and the original branch will grafted back in.
Funny thing about olive branches that are cut off.....they can lay for years on the ground and be grafted back in and produce fruit.
We are on dangerous ground when we, the wild olive branch, boast against the cultured cut-off branch.
I agree with you. Yet, observing and commenting is not boasting against anyone. Jesus is the ONE way to salvation, according to Scripture. That means Orthodox Jews, Muslims, Hindus, New Age, etc. are ALL WRONG. The Bible is clear on that point, I merely observe, pray, and reflect on what the Holy Spirit teaches. Was Jesus boasting when He called the Pharisees whitewashed tombs?
And since Scripture does not contradict itself, even Jews must submit to Christ and must accept salvation from Jesus, the only way. There is no 'free pass' due to genealogy.
Does Abraham's faith cover the sins of descendants? So his descendants actually can reject Christ and still get into Heaven? Is the Bible written by liars? No, it's just interpreted incorrectly. If you hold to the Old Covenant and reject the New Covenant, you do not follow Christ.
"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." John 14:6
Exactly where.... does "Paul tells Christians that the JEWS will always be God's people"?
And exactly where ...does he say they will be saved at "Christ's return"?
First, Paul through the Holy Spirit never uses the term "Jew". He always uses the term Israel. The distinction is important. When Paul talks about Israel, he is referring to the risen Messiah's Israel of the New Covenant established in His shed blood. All Israel WILL be saved, both Gentile believers and Jewish believers in the risen Christ. This is the Israel of the New Covenant. Those who did not and will not accept Christ are not a part of the Israel. And many Jews did not accept Him.
Second, Romans 11:26-27 says quoting Isaiah 59:20-21, "And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: The Deliverer will come out of Zion, and He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob; for this is My (Christ's) covenant with them, when I take away their sins." Jacob is the 12 tribes. At the time of the Advent, the ten tribes of the Northern Kingdom of Israel had been taken into captivity centuries before. When the Southern Kingdom of Judah invited them to return to the land, they had declined and picked up and headed west through the Caucasus Mountains and disappeared off the pages of recorded history. At the time of Jesus, the people were primarily of Judah (Jews) and a few of Levi. When the Temple was destroyed, along with the genealogies, and Jerusalem was left desolate, the people were dispersed (those who survived) and having been cut off from the Covenant due to their rejection of the Messiah are now counted among the Gentiles just as the lost 10 tribes are. The Israel of God's covenant are everyone who accepted the Messiah, who came out of Zion, and "took away their sins" when He finished His work on the cross and ascended to the throne at the right hand of God. Isaiah was talking about the life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ only. Not some hypothetical future "return" of Christ.
Jews are the Tribe of Judah. And it it the God of the ENTIRE Bible that says the will ALWAYS be His Chosen people, Israel. And that ALL of Israel will be saved.
If you do away with your past, you do away with yourself. If you do away with the TORAH, prophets and writings, you do not get to claim that Yeshua is Messiah. He is the “Lamb that was slain BEFORE the foundations of the world. God does not lie and he is not capricious.......changing His mind, as we do, based on our current circumstances. He is Faithful to His Word to perform every ‘jot and tittle’.
I suggest you read the Bible from the perspective that the Bible is His history...the Bible is His-story. The entirety of the Old Covenant is to prefigure Christ. His chosen people, all who believe in the Messiah from Adam to today are Israel, the body of Christ on earth and the saints in heaven. This is the church.
Some scholars have said that Paul was refering to the time period he was in and so that has already occurred. Jesus the Christ appeared to Paul in the etheric and has remained with us in the etheric, saying that he would never leave his people. He will not be coming back in the flesh.
For the record, "Jesus will not come back in the flesh" is a heresy that has been consistently condemned since the early church.
However, the view that He "came" (to the throne of the Father, to receive power and dominion) in a non-bodily way in connection with judgement on Jerusalem (AD 70), and that this fulfills the bulk of prophecy that some think refers to a future coming, is entirely consistent with orthodoxy if one also holds that He will also return in bodily form in the future final judgement, to usher in the new heavens and new earth. ("This Jesus will return in the like manner that you have seen him go"...)
The Israel of the New Covenant are ALL those who accepted the Messiah during and after his ministry, Jew and Gentile alike. Those of Israel who rejected Him were "branches of the olive tree" that were broken off and "cast away" in judgement. Thus 70 AD and the destruction of the Temple and Jerusalem. In Romans 11, Paul, talking to the Gentile Christians, warns them not to look down upon Jews because not all have rejected Christ as he himself is an Israelite of the tribe of Benjamin. He explains that God reserved to Himself "a remnant according to the election of grace"... "whom He foreknew."
Paul goes on to further explain how he desires to "provoke to jealousy those who are my flesh and save SOME of them" by his ministry to the Gentiles. So he admonishes the Gentile Christians not to be haughty, but fear. For if the natural branches could be broken off because of unbelief, they also could be cut off if they do not "stand by faith." Those who did not accept the Messiah were cut off from God's Covenant and the Israel of God are now all who believe in the risen Savior.
In Luke 21, Jesus warns His disciples that the Temple will be destroyed and then warns them what to watch for so they may escape the desolation of Jerusalem (v 20). In verse 22, Jesus says, "For these are the days of vengeance that all things which are written (in the OT) may be fulfilled."
There is only one Covenant and there is only one Israel: the New Covenant Israel of Jesus Christ. The people who call themselves "Jews" gave up their connection with the covenant of God with the advent of Christ, their rejection of Him and the pouring out of God's wrath on apostate Israel in 70 AD. In effect, they are now accounted among the unbelieving Gentiles. "The days of vengeance" were poured out only once so that all things that were written in the Old Testament may be fulfilled. God fulfilled all things written in the OT when His Son died on the cross and rose to ascend to the throne.
It still remains, though, that faithful Jews exist, all over the world and in Israel. And it has always looked to me like those faithful Jews are still blessed. They are often wealthy and successful. It’s one of the reasons they are hated. When God chose them, He blessed them but it also put a target on their backs. When they follow God, He blesses them. There is trouble, but they are able to persevere.
If that blessing is over and God has cast them away, how do you explain their continued existence even in foreign countries, generation after generation? And their continued blessing? How do you explain the gathering back to the land of Israel, in fulfillment of prophecy?
Ethnically jewish people can survive in the same way anglo-saxon people survive; it doesn't require divine intervention. Further, rabbinic judaism as I understand it, has traditionally encouraged intelligence and diligence, both of which are going to help a group to survive better.
The more significant point is, "faithful" Jews are only faithful if they acknowledge the Messiah. Moses prophesied that a prophet greater than himself was coming, and "you must listen to him"; we know who that One "greater than Moses" is, so if a Jewish person refuses to accept Him, in doing so they disobey Moses and are no longer faithful to their covenant.
But Anglo-Saxon people, and every single other ethnic group, when immigrating to, say, Spain, become plain old Spanish within a few generations. Not the Jews. Obviously, this is a strong indication of divine intervention.
When I say “faithful” Jews, I’m talking about people who practice their faith. They seek God, go to synagogue, celebrate the Sabbath and high holy days. They don’t know Jesus, yet, but they do worship the Father.
This rationale is not Scriptural. You say, "They don't know Jesus" and this is true. In Matthew 12, the Pharisees accuse Jesus of casting out demons by Beelzebub. In response Jesus proceeds with a long lecture for the rest of chapter 12. Jesus tells the Pharisees that their blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven. He calls them a "Brood of vipers!" and tells them that by their own words they will be condemned. They then ask Jesus for a sign and in response Jesus calls them an evil and adulterous generation and that the ONLY sign they will be given is the sign of Jonah, thus referring to His own resurrection and that the men of Nineveh who repented at the sign of Jonah will rise in judgement of their generation and condemn them because "a greater than Jonah is here... and a greater than Solomom is here." Jesus ends by referring to His disciples and says "For whoever does the will of My Father in heaven is My brother and sister and mother." In John 14, Jesus says, "No one comes to the Father except through Me." Clearly, Jesus is explicitly saying they do NOT worship the Father because they have rejected His Son.
You started this thread by claiming the Romans wiped out the Jews 2000 years ago, which is nonsense. And it seems you have claimed this in order to justify hating Israel and the Jewish people who actually still exist, by the grace of God.
And if you want to quibble about terms, fine. They worship their Creator, which just happens to be the same Creator Christians worship. Or you could say they worship God as they understand Him from the Old Testament.
Sorry for the typo. I'm glad you understood what I meant.
I never said the Jews of Jesus' day were "wiped out". I simply quoted scripture that described their judgement. Obviously, many did die in 70 AD with the closing out of the Old Covenant but the rest were dispersed and have descendants today. Where do I justify hating "Israel" and the Jewish people? Like anyone else, they are sinners who do not know Christ and are in need of salvation. There is nothing special about them in terms of their relationship to God. Jesus made that very clear as I described above. The promises of God in the Old Covenant were fulfilled in the believers who accepted Christ when He came to them.
As for who they worship, at least the few who are not secular Jews, they are no different than the rest of the Gentiles who do not know Christ. They are in need of the Gospel. This is no different than when Paul would preach to the Gentiles who believed in a Creator and he would say, Good - now let me tell you about who this Creator is.
I do not "Hate" and for you to accuse me of such is unfounded. Again, all I have done is quote the Word. If you have a problem with that then I suggest your problem is actually with the theology that you have been taught that misrepresents the Word. "No one comes to the Father except through Me." John 14
"...The more significant point is, "faithful" Jews are only faithful if they acknowledge the Messiah. Moses prophesied that a prophet greater than himself was coming, and "you must listen to him"; we know who that One "greater than Moses" is, so if a Jewish person refuses to accept Him, in doing so they disobey Moses and are no longer faithful to their covenant..."
There are also plenty of evil men who are "wealthy and successful". That means nothing.
The 21st century political state called Israel has nothing to do with "the fulfillment of prophecy." I've explained the status of so-called Jews in my other reply to you. (And point in fact, most Jews today are not religious but completely secular.)
What you are doing is what the modern day church has been doing for a long time. They are imposing current events onto Scripture as a means to interpreting Scripture. This is completely erroneous. Scripture must be interpreted with Scripture which requires more study than the modern day church wants to invest.
Daniel 9:26-27 prophesies the coming of the armies to destroy Jerusalem and the Temple. The parallel passage to Matt 24 and Daniel 9 is Luke 21:20-22 which makes clear the meaning of Matt and Daniel. This is the "abomination of desolation" and, as Luke explains, was to be the armed invasion of Jerusalem and the destruction of the Temple as God brings the Old Covenant to a close. In 68 AD, the Edomites, the age long enemies of Israel, surrounded and invaded the city and slaughtered 8,500 people in the Temple. In the words of Josephus, this was "the beginning of the destruction of the city. From this very day may be dated the overthrow of her wall and the ruin of her affairs." These are "the days of vengeance that all things which are written (in the OT) may be fulfilled" Luke 21:22.
The modern church does not understand these prophecies because they do not understand the economy of God's covenants and their meaning. This was the closing out of the Old Covenant with God's wrath poured out on apostate Israel and the establishment of the New Covenant in Christ's shed blood. Jesus said in Matt 24:21, "For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, NOR EVER SHALL BE." The great tribulation refers to the destruction of Temple in that generation alone (70 AD), an absolutely unique event in history never to be repeated.
Jewish lineage is protected & maintained via women. Jewish women can marry/have children with any race and the offspring remain Jewish. Explains the color/skin tone differences between Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jews.
That is not Biblical. It is how the nation of Israel sees it, but the Biblical is clearly through the male. The ‘seed’ is planted in the woman, and yes, she brings forth the fruit. But the seed is from the male. I base that, not on my opinion, but on the Word.
But seed cannot bring fruit on its own. It takes both the male and female.
Hence.....TWO genders. One plants the seed , the other nourishes it.
This is choice because Hamas is used as a proxy for hire by just about everyone (Iran, Israel, the United States).
What about the attacks ongoing in the United States? Why champion yet another diversion from our own existential threats to regular everyday Americans?
Genesis 12 did NOT say Israel. The Lord was talking to Abram who believed God. And again, with the Advent of the Messiah, Israel was expanded to include all believers, the believing descendants of Abram and believing Gentiles. Unbelieving descendants of Abram had no part in the blessings of the covenant and were formally cut off when the Old Covenant was closed out.
All I can say is that I trust Israel over Hamas.
So.
The regime that vaxxed their people worse than any other country.
That sucks over 4 billion cash from USA taxpayers EVERY YEAR.
All to keep a war industry going.
Instead of peace.
And how much has Ukraine sucked? China was GIVEN our manufacturing jobs. How much has IRAN sucked? How much has the WORLD sucked? And our TINIEST ally in the ME, the only democratic nation in the ME we can’t be bothered with?
The ignorance about the ME and about Israel is disgusting. And WE are the nation who has aborted more children than any other. And have forced it on other nations as a ‘condition’ of getting financial ‘aid’ packages from us. WE pushed the jab on poor nations.. OUR government is to blame. Until WE clean up our act we have NO right to start on any other nation.........especially Israel
I fail to see how the problems we have at home in the US are in any way a justification for "trusting" the state of Israel. As for "tiny", Israel is probably the most powerful lobby in Washington DC. She has more influence in the politics of our country than your own representatives. How is that in our best interests?
Wrong. Big Pharma has the biggest lobby.
Want to blame that on Israel too?
SMH
Ding ding ding! Phil wins today's prize. Always wondered that too.
Later Jay
Well said! I’ve been noticing for the past few years, an intense propaganda attack on Israel. I’m surprised at the people I know who bought into it.
The Israeli government pushed the jab the hardest out of any "western" government with the possible exception of Australia.
Pfizer execs were so bold as to refer to Israel as a "test laboratory" for their murderous gene therapies. Never forget.
Proof that Israel's own government does not care about their own people! They would sacrifice them in a nano second if it brought those in command more $$$ and power.
I still wonder whether somebody was strong-armed. Or quite a few people blackmailed.
Tel Aviv and Jerusalem are just offices for the Zionist/Money Power ... as are a lot of other places ... like New York, City of London, Geneva, Berne, Rome, et alia.
Well said CS Stone. And I admit that the absolute insanity over the god-state in the Middle East has me as offended as I was by the Ukraine, C19 Health Terrorism, and everything else going on with the Empire of Perpetual Warfare since at least the 1990's. Meanwhile, our country goes down the drain.
The "only democratic nation in the ME" that runs the largest open air prison in the world, and while having Arabs constituting 20% of the population only has 8% Arab representation in the Knesset, and there is so much more. Continuous land seizures for settlers, crops systematically destroyed, bombings of and school closings, not to mention bombing hospitals, and use of prohibited munitions like phosphorus. Really the list of crimes against a captive population over the last 70 years is literally too long to list. I'd argue that slogan is nothing more than a Zionist meme.
They are prisoners of Hamas and hezbollah. They are not prisoners of Israel. You canNOT coexist with those who want to destroy you. The feminization of men in this country is appalling. Try to coexist with these same demons who have crossed the US border and are kept up by our taxpayers in hotels, receiving packages of armaments daily. Coexist with that when they come for you and your family.
Kool Tim! Not one F-bomb. You get your gold star today!
And yep!
Later Jay
Thanks Tim!
GIVEN our manufacturing jobs AND our technology. By whom, you may ask?
Why, by the DemonicRAT Party!! Bill Clinton and his and Hillary’s shell game. Just like Obama and the Muslim nations. Just like Obiden and Ukraine!!!
Your reasoning is flawed. The snake may be scarier than the spider but the spider may be more deadly. Your reasons do not justify your conclusions...or should I say your desired conclusions.
Feminized men. SMH
Funny how the repeal of smith mundt allowed the feds to create the news, and own the means of spewing. And now, any country seeking to be just a little free, is baaaad. Vote out a socialist, and one will be appointed for you,everywhere in the world. I’m pretty sure if we have our revolution 2.0, it will wake up the whole world.
Should I bring a shovel or a backhoe?
Later Jay
Truth. Wasn't Israel the first regime to bring vaccine passports?
And Russia vaccinated theirs a lot but not a peep about it from you.
Who started this conflict, again?
The nation that deliberately tried to destroy the USS Liberty in 1967? They were in cahoots with our President (LBJ) to sacrifice our ship and crew, blame Egypt for the attack and allow us to enter a war with Israel against Egypt. 34 men killed, over 150 wounded and the survivors told to shut up and never mention it again or they'd be jailed. Only because one brave sailor was able to run a coax wire and reach out with an SOS in between the strafing and torpedo attacks is what saved the remaining crew. And they all suffer mentally and emotionally since then, as well as having their own country disavow them. Yeah, I don't trust Israel's government OR ours any further than I can thrown them!
CStone, I wouldn't trust either one of the them. And I don't see any need to declare one is better or worse than the other, or more trustworthy than the other. If you honestly feel that way, that's fine, but I don't think we should put ourselves in a corner thinking it's necessary to decide either is the better of the two. It could be true that both are run by sociopaths who have no problem killing anyone to advance their position. Or lying without remorse about what they've done.
Well, it is obviously true of our own government.
Really? Why would you trust either one?
Let me add, the only reason some people "trust" Israel is because the 21st century political state we are talking about took the name of the Old Testament culture of the 12 Tribes whose community and state were destroyed by the Romans TWO THOUSAND YEARS AGO. Hello?
But the Romans didn’t destroy them. They were scattered, but never ceased to exist. In fact one of the best pieces of evidence for God is the continued existence of His chosen people throughout the centuries. Every other culture, when emigrating to another country, assimilates within 6 generations (usually fewer than 6) and ceases to exist as a separate ethnic group. The Jews, though, while somewhat assimilating to their new country, never stop being Jewish. Yes, some do, but there is always a remnant. You can’t say that about, for example, Norwegian or Chinese people who move to the US.
Almighty God destroyed Israel Himself. After Christ Jesus fulfilled the Law and completed the Old Covenant, the New Covenant is no respecter of ethnicity. Israel was 'chosen' to be a nation of priests to all mankind, but they were deceived and rejected the very Christ they were waiting for. In short, they rejected their birthright and it was opened up to all mankind through one man...Jesus.
Hi Eliza, thanks for your comment. It's interesting context, in that Romans 11:5 refers to a 'remnant' and in Romans 11:14 Paul expresses a desire to 'save' those of his ethnicity. Romans 11:20 states that the Jews who did NOT believe in Jesus were 'broken off' branches, but gentiles can be saved through faith in Christ Jesus.
Special Ted, He also says that if the ‘wild olive branch’ (Gentiles) that was grafted into the cultured tree (Israel) boasts against the cultured branch, then that wild olive branch will be cut off and the original branch will grafted back in.
Funny thing about olive branches that are cut off.....they can lay for years on the ground and be grafted back in and produce fruit.
We are on dangerous ground when we, the wild olive branch, boast against the cultured cut-off branch.
I agree with you. Yet, observing and commenting is not boasting against anyone. Jesus is the ONE way to salvation, according to Scripture. That means Orthodox Jews, Muslims, Hindus, New Age, etc. are ALL WRONG. The Bible is clear on that point, I merely observe, pray, and reflect on what the Holy Spirit teaches. Was Jesus boasting when He called the Pharisees whitewashed tombs?
Exactly.
And since Scripture does not contradict itself, even Jews must submit to Christ and must accept salvation from Jesus, the only way. There is no 'free pass' due to genealogy.
Does Abraham's faith cover the sins of descendants? So his descendants actually can reject Christ and still get into Heaven? Is the Bible written by liars? No, it's just interpreted incorrectly. If you hold to the Old Covenant and reject the New Covenant, you do not follow Christ.
"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." John 14:6
It can't get any clearer than that.
Beautifully written, and your loving heart for Jesus can be plainly
seen by your comments (not just this one).
“Once the seed of knowledge has been planted, only God can make it grow.”
I pray that God blesss you beyond your wildest measure!
Exactly where.... does "Paul tells Christians that the JEWS will always be God's people"?
And exactly where ...does he say they will be saved at "Christ's return"?
First, Paul through the Holy Spirit never uses the term "Jew". He always uses the term Israel. The distinction is important. When Paul talks about Israel, he is referring to the risen Messiah's Israel of the New Covenant established in His shed blood. All Israel WILL be saved, both Gentile believers and Jewish believers in the risen Christ. This is the Israel of the New Covenant. Those who did not and will not accept Christ are not a part of the Israel. And many Jews did not accept Him.
Second, Romans 11:26-27 says quoting Isaiah 59:20-21, "And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: The Deliverer will come out of Zion, and He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob; for this is My (Christ's) covenant with them, when I take away their sins." Jacob is the 12 tribes. At the time of the Advent, the ten tribes of the Northern Kingdom of Israel had been taken into captivity centuries before. When the Southern Kingdom of Judah invited them to return to the land, they had declined and picked up and headed west through the Caucasus Mountains and disappeared off the pages of recorded history. At the time of Jesus, the people were primarily of Judah (Jews) and a few of Levi. When the Temple was destroyed, along with the genealogies, and Jerusalem was left desolate, the people were dispersed (those who survived) and having been cut off from the Covenant due to their rejection of the Messiah are now counted among the Gentiles just as the lost 10 tribes are. The Israel of God's covenant are everyone who accepted the Messiah, who came out of Zion, and "took away their sins" when He finished His work on the cross and ascended to the throne at the right hand of God. Isaiah was talking about the life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ only. Not some hypothetical future "return" of Christ.
Jews are the Tribe of Judah. And it it the God of the ENTIRE Bible that says the will ALWAYS be His Chosen people, Israel. And that ALL of Israel will be saved.
If you do away with your past, you do away with yourself. If you do away with the TORAH, prophets and writings, you do not get to claim that Yeshua is Messiah. He is the “Lamb that was slain BEFORE the foundations of the world. God does not lie and he is not capricious.......changing His mind, as we do, based on our current circumstances. He is Faithful to His Word to perform every ‘jot and tittle’.
I suggest you read the Bible from the perspective that the Bible is His history...the Bible is His-story. The entirety of the Old Covenant is to prefigure Christ. His chosen people, all who believe in the Messiah from Adam to today are Israel, the body of Christ on earth and the saints in heaven. This is the church.
Some scholars have said that Paul was refering to the time period he was in and so that has already occurred. Jesus the Christ appeared to Paul in the etheric and has remained with us in the etheric, saying that he would never leave his people. He will not be coming back in the flesh.
For the record, "Jesus will not come back in the flesh" is a heresy that has been consistently condemned since the early church.
However, the view that He "came" (to the throne of the Father, to receive power and dominion) in a non-bodily way in connection with judgement on Jerusalem (AD 70), and that this fulfills the bulk of prophecy that some think refers to a future coming, is entirely consistent with orthodoxy if one also holds that He will also return in bodily form in the future final judgement, to usher in the new heavens and new earth. ("This Jesus will return in the like manner that you have seen him go"...)
The Israel of the New Covenant are ALL those who accepted the Messiah during and after his ministry, Jew and Gentile alike. Those of Israel who rejected Him were "branches of the olive tree" that were broken off and "cast away" in judgement. Thus 70 AD and the destruction of the Temple and Jerusalem. In Romans 11, Paul, talking to the Gentile Christians, warns them not to look down upon Jews because not all have rejected Christ as he himself is an Israelite of the tribe of Benjamin. He explains that God reserved to Himself "a remnant according to the election of grace"... "whom He foreknew."
Paul goes on to further explain how he desires to "provoke to jealousy those who are my flesh and save SOME of them" by his ministry to the Gentiles. So he admonishes the Gentile Christians not to be haughty, but fear. For if the natural branches could be broken off because of unbelief, they also could be cut off if they do not "stand by faith." Those who did not accept the Messiah were cut off from God's Covenant and the Israel of God are now all who believe in the risen Savior.
In Luke 21, Jesus warns His disciples that the Temple will be destroyed and then warns them what to watch for so they may escape the desolation of Jerusalem (v 20). In verse 22, Jesus says, "For these are the days of vengeance that all things which are written (in the OT) may be fulfilled."
There is only one Covenant and there is only one Israel: the New Covenant Israel of Jesus Christ. The people who call themselves "Jews" gave up their connection with the covenant of God with the advent of Christ, their rejection of Him and the pouring out of God's wrath on apostate Israel in 70 AD. In effect, they are now accounted among the unbelieving Gentiles. "The days of vengeance" were poured out only once so that all things that were written in the Old Testament may be fulfilled. God fulfilled all things written in the OT when His Son died on the cross and rose to ascend to the throne.
It still remains, though, that faithful Jews exist, all over the world and in Israel. And it has always looked to me like those faithful Jews are still blessed. They are often wealthy and successful. It’s one of the reasons they are hated. When God chose them, He blessed them but it also put a target on their backs. When they follow God, He blesses them. There is trouble, but they are able to persevere.
If that blessing is over and God has cast them away, how do you explain their continued existence even in foreign countries, generation after generation? And their continued blessing? How do you explain the gathering back to the land of Israel, in fulfillment of prophecy?
Ethnically jewish people can survive in the same way anglo-saxon people survive; it doesn't require divine intervention. Further, rabbinic judaism as I understand it, has traditionally encouraged intelligence and diligence, both of which are going to help a group to survive better.
The more significant point is, "faithful" Jews are only faithful if they acknowledge the Messiah. Moses prophesied that a prophet greater than himself was coming, and "you must listen to him"; we know who that One "greater than Moses" is, so if a Jewish person refuses to accept Him, in doing so they disobey Moses and are no longer faithful to their covenant.
But Anglo-Saxon people, and every single other ethnic group, when immigrating to, say, Spain, become plain old Spanish within a few generations. Not the Jews. Obviously, this is a strong indication of divine intervention.
When I say “faithful” Jews, I’m talking about people who practice their faith. They seek God, go to synagogue, celebrate the Sabbath and high holy days. They don’t know Jesus, yet, but they do worship the Father.
This rationale is not Scriptural. You say, "They don't know Jesus" and this is true. In Matthew 12, the Pharisees accuse Jesus of casting out demons by Beelzebub. In response Jesus proceeds with a long lecture for the rest of chapter 12. Jesus tells the Pharisees that their blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven. He calls them a "Brood of vipers!" and tells them that by their own words they will be condemned. They then ask Jesus for a sign and in response Jesus calls them an evil and adulterous generation and that the ONLY sign they will be given is the sign of Jonah, thus referring to His own resurrection and that the men of Nineveh who repented at the sign of Jonah will rise in judgement of their generation and condemn them because "a greater than Jonah is here... and a greater than Solomom is here." Jesus ends by referring to His disciples and says "For whoever does the will of My Father in heaven is My brother and sister and mother." In John 14, Jesus says, "No one comes to the Father except through Me." Clearly, Jesus is explicitly saying they do NOT worship the Father because they have rejected His Son.
It’s rationale, not rational.
You started this thread by claiming the Romans wiped out the Jews 2000 years ago, which is nonsense. And it seems you have claimed this in order to justify hating Israel and the Jewish people who actually still exist, by the grace of God.
And if you want to quibble about terms, fine. They worship their Creator, which just happens to be the same Creator Christians worship. Or you could say they worship God as they understand Him from the Old Testament.
Whatever. Hate if you want to.
Sorry for the typo. I'm glad you understood what I meant.
I never said the Jews of Jesus' day were "wiped out". I simply quoted scripture that described their judgement. Obviously, many did die in 70 AD with the closing out of the Old Covenant but the rest were dispersed and have descendants today. Where do I justify hating "Israel" and the Jewish people? Like anyone else, they are sinners who do not know Christ and are in need of salvation. There is nothing special about them in terms of their relationship to God. Jesus made that very clear as I described above. The promises of God in the Old Covenant were fulfilled in the believers who accepted Christ when He came to them.
As for who they worship, at least the few who are not secular Jews, they are no different than the rest of the Gentiles who do not know Christ. They are in need of the Gospel. This is no different than when Paul would preach to the Gentiles who believed in a Creator and he would say, Good - now let me tell you about who this Creator is.
I do not "Hate" and for you to accuse me of such is unfounded. Again, all I have done is quote the Word. If you have a problem with that then I suggest your problem is actually with the theology that you have been taught that misrepresents the Word. "No one comes to the Father except through Me." John 14
"...The more significant point is, "faithful" Jews are only faithful if they acknowledge the Messiah. Moses prophesied that a prophet greater than himself was coming, and "you must listen to him"; we know who that One "greater than Moses" is, so if a Jewish person refuses to accept Him, in doing so they disobey Moses and are no longer faithful to their covenant..."
EXACTLY right.
There are also plenty of evil men who are "wealthy and successful". That means nothing.
The 21st century political state called Israel has nothing to do with "the fulfillment of prophecy." I've explained the status of so-called Jews in my other reply to you. (And point in fact, most Jews today are not religious but completely secular.)
What you are doing is what the modern day church has been doing for a long time. They are imposing current events onto Scripture as a means to interpreting Scripture. This is completely erroneous. Scripture must be interpreted with Scripture which requires more study than the modern day church wants to invest.
Daniel 9:26-27 prophesies the coming of the armies to destroy Jerusalem and the Temple. The parallel passage to Matt 24 and Daniel 9 is Luke 21:20-22 which makes clear the meaning of Matt and Daniel. This is the "abomination of desolation" and, as Luke explains, was to be the armed invasion of Jerusalem and the destruction of the Temple as God brings the Old Covenant to a close. In 68 AD, the Edomites, the age long enemies of Israel, surrounded and invaded the city and slaughtered 8,500 people in the Temple. In the words of Josephus, this was "the beginning of the destruction of the city. From this very day may be dated the overthrow of her wall and the ruin of her affairs." These are "the days of vengeance that all things which are written (in the OT) may be fulfilled" Luke 21:22.
The modern church does not understand these prophecies because they do not understand the economy of God's covenants and their meaning. This was the closing out of the Old Covenant with God's wrath poured out on apostate Israel and the establishment of the New Covenant in Christ's shed blood. Jesus said in Matt 24:21, "For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, NOR EVER SHALL BE." The great tribulation refers to the destruction of Temple in that generation alone (70 AD), an absolutely unique event in history never to be repeated.
Jewish lineage is protected & maintained via women. Jewish women can marry/have children with any race and the offspring remain Jewish. Explains the color/skin tone differences between Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jews.
That is not Biblical. It is how the nation of Israel sees it, but the Biblical is clearly through the male. The ‘seed’ is planted in the woman, and yes, she brings forth the fruit. But the seed is from the male. I base that, not on my opinion, but on the Word.
But seed cannot bring fruit on its own. It takes both the male and female.
Hence.....TWO genders. One plants the seed , the other nourishes it.
Hunter-gatherer/nurturer.
I trust neither.
This is choice because Hamas is used as a proxy for hire by just about everyone (Iran, Israel, the United States).
What about the attacks ongoing in the United States? Why champion yet another diversion from our own existential threats to regular everyday Americans?
Trust no one but God.
Because the Word say “He who blesses Israel I will bless. He who curses Israel I will curse.”
I am aware that the Israeli government is not pure. But our own government is obviously very corrupt.
Genesis 12 did NOT say Israel. The Lord was talking to Abram who believed God. And again, with the Advent of the Messiah, Israel was expanded to include all believers, the believing descendants of Abram and believing Gentiles. Unbelieving descendants of Abram had no part in the blessings of the covenant and were formally cut off when the Old Covenant was closed out.
Of course you do because he worked for them
He who worked for them? Who is he and who is them?
Nope. You're done/