Whatever goes on in Israel is irrelevancy with regard to the existential threats posed by invasive attack at the country's borders and by attack from subversives within the highest centers of the now captured 'government' (bioweapons, food supply, financial system/inflation, DEW weapons, criminal maladmistration, etc.). And the focus it …
Whatever goes on in Israel is irrelevancy with regard to the existential threats posed by invasive attack at the country's borders and by attack from subversives within the highest centers of the now captured 'government' (bioweapons, food supply, financial system/inflation, DEW weapons, criminal maladmistration, etc.). And the focus it on Israel and Hamas? Really? What about saving ourselves from extinction?
The point is to have a border period ... and no further ethnic cleansing by relocation and/or organized mass trafficking across the would be now non-extent United States borders. And the focus, for me, is not on the Zionist god-state, it is restoring order and Constitutional rule to America. It is Americans and American First. It is real jobs, real money, real sanity. It is real criminal prosecutions for things like covert operations attacks like the C19 vaccine attack.
By the way, the Zionist god-state would just love a flood of Palestinians to the US, Europe, Canada, Australia, New Zealand. It would solve their problem and maybe this is the point of this whole circus? Empty out Gaza. We'll see what gets shoved forward.
Once again folks are having their buttons pushed, their attentions misdirected and sucked in once again.
That was the entire goal of opening our borders. To justify/strategize at-home terrorism--and call another "oops! Biden messed up again!" Biden is in charge of nothing. This open border was well strategized. The "Biden administration" even sued Texas and NM for trying to close the border in their states and received injunction prohibiting those states from putting up barriers. Let that sink in. The worst (at least for Americans) is yet to come.
Hitting Dave’s point, if the border was secure,that would mean immigration law was being enforced, and those neanderthals wouldn’t be coming here. I wonder if the queer college students realize the only men allowed to have sex with little boys are muzzies? And those men kill real queers. I’m not sure what the difference is, but they are.
Our present world system runs on POWER and GREED - and the financiers and power potentates (especially in banking and media) are mostly of the "jewish" persuasion. And soooo.....as the nation of Israel (which I am learning from some commentators whose words I respect is NOT considered to be legitimate by orthodox Jewish people around the globe) goes...so goes the "power potentates" as to their loyalties and verbiage!
The origins of the Land of Israel, come from the Biblical account when Abraham obeyed God and He promised him the land that He showed him. Genesis 15:18 says "On the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram saying, To your descendants I have given this land, FROM the river of Egypt TO the great river Eupharates. So truly, where Israel sits today, is only but a portion of his inheritance... When King Jesus sits on His throne in Jerusalem, His Kingdom will have true borders...
In Gen 17:8 God again tells Abram, "Also I give to you and your descendants after you the land in which you are a stranger, all the land of Canaan, as an everlasting possession: and I will be their God.
The passages are well taken, but I think Elaine Rusky also has a point worthy of good consideration.
Further, those descendants of Abram, then Abraham, became many tribes, in addition to the semitics who became Muslim and those we call Jews. Of these, Jacob (Grandson of Abraham, and son of Isaac and Rebecca) sired (with Rachel and Lea and 2 servants) the 12 tribes of Israel, the people which we think of as the Jews. It was through them the Law, Moses, the prophets, and Christ Himself came. They’re honored in scripture but also are a picture of dishonor. Many descendants of these tribes of Israel scattered to other places as well and lost their identity.
The thing is, the many tribes descended from Abraham not via Jacob/Israel would also be heir to those promises in the Bible which you quote. Yes, the Jews (those of Jacob/Israel) were set apart by God. They were given much else besides. But the greatest gift was Jesus the lamb of God, the Savior, God’s only son, the King of Kings. I cannot conceive of such rejection of God’s greatest and clearest gift, while appropriating all the lesser ones, especially entitlement to a political, secular state and territory, guaranteed from its inception to be at war with its neighbors, being sanctified.
There’s too much to write here, but we know that the consummate Jew, Paul wrote to the Galatians, “There is now neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.“ (Gal. 3:28)
HE is who and what defines God’s people, not a name, heritage, race, status, or history. Not origins or bloodlines or ancestry. In Christ, Jew and Gentile are both one.
As Christians, If we want a homeland for Jews, we should lead them first to the Father by way of the only way to him, via their true Messiah. Then they will be home. If we love them — as we are told to do — first is to seek and serve the kingdom of God. Then all thing will be added by Him. If we love them, as we ought to love all men, we must keep this in mind. But it obviously presents in this day a fine needle to thread. Love, mercy and humble heart will go a long way. Peace.
When Abraham pleaded with God to allow Ishmael to live before him, to inherit the Blessing, God specifically told him that Abraham's line would be counted through the son of Promise: Isaac... Even though God blessed Ishmael and gave him 12 sons, the Messiah came through Jacob's lineage. You are correct that in Christ there is neither Jew or Gentile, slave or free... IN CHRIST God is NOT done with His people Israel... the land He gave them is theirs in perpetuity...
I think you are conflating the Israel of the Old Testament (God's chosen people, through Abraham) with the modern country, Israel. I think "Israel" today is spiritual (the church) and not an ethnic group of people. I say that because there are no ethnic Jews today. They intermarried constantly throughout history, and they are now indistinguishable from any other mideastern people, from a genetic standpoint. Here's an article about the spiritual nation of Israel:
There's a short article here that gives the basic scriptures leading to this concept of Israel. It has a lot of annoying popups, which you can eventually block by saying you already subscribed. (I don't think there's anything to subscribe to).
I know. I grew up in the ‘church’, my father was a pastor who loved Israel and did not misinterpret the Word for the convenience of ‘Jew haters’. The Word says what He says. He is not a capricious God and states over and over and over that Israel is HIS, and as long as the sun and starts remain, Israel will remain His.
We are grafted in when we accept z Yeshua, but when we brag AGAINST Israel? He says he will lop us off that olive tree . I have a reverence for the Word that He is either TRUTH or He isn’t. And I have found that He does NOT lie. Israel is His. And I am Israel chai, as a result of Yeshua the Messiah.
The grafting of a wild olive branch takes three days. Resurrection=3 days.
But we can be cut off just as easily as we were grafted in. It is a dangerous thing to come against His Chosen people.
I know what you are saying, as my late mother was an ardent premillenialist and we discussed the issue quite often. I'm not trying to be fissiparous. God is sovereign.
You are right. This link is interesting. Especially the part on Zionism. In some other ways not totally the complete picture, and the interviewer does not know enough to always ask the right questions. For example, no mention that I can recall of the Talmud. Worth watching in my opinion.
That all the political class is falling all over themselves 'to stand with' that tiny Middle Eastern god-state says it all. But where is all this 'stand for' real borders? Haven't seen it in at least 53 years.
The "real borders" won't be set until the Lion of Judah returns to earth with his army of angelic hosts!! We, who name the name of Jesus Christ the Lord WILL BE PERSECUTED as never before. There is no "rapture" mentioned in the Bible--that is a concept that was concocted in the late 19th century by Pentacostal pastorates.
Sharon, what do you do with this bit of Scripture: "For the Lord Himself will descend from Heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. AND the dead in Christ will rise FIRST. Then we who are ALIVE and remain shall be CAUGHT UP (harpaso Gk - rapturo: latin) together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall ALWAYS be with the Lord. 1Thes 4:16-17
C.M. I have sat under the tutelage of well-respected evangelical expository pastor/teachers. Some of them preached the "pre trib" rapture...some preached ""mid trib rapture", some preached "post trib rapture"....so I am of the mindset that I'll await the Lord Jesus Christ's cry COME UP HITHER....if I'm dead then--I'll be "first to meet Him--if I'm still alive..."I'll wait for my brothers and sisters in faith who passed into eternity before me to meet him FIRST....it's "up for interpretation" as far as I am concerned.
One reading of Matthew 27:51-53 is that this has already happened, like many of the events cited by premillenial eschatologists. What do you guys think?
I believe God uses the same type of event 2x or even 3x. I understand that Antiochus IV Epiphanes captured Jerusalem in 167 BC and desecrated the Temple by offering a pig on the altar to Zeus... and we also see the Abomination of Desolation (spoken by Daniel) mentioned by Jesus Himself in Matt 24:15... Would He have mentioned it if it had already happened? Maybe this same scenario happens several times...
Thank you for the article. The author traces the theologians' development of this doctrine. I always thought the Schofield bible footnotes had much to do with it. While helpful, the primary authority I prefer is the New Testament. I'm what I call a pro-millenial, meaning I'm ready for whatever God chooses to do, now and forever. Having almost died twice, I know it's possible that I won't be on Earth for any of it so it's largely academic. (Nothing wrong with that if you're an academic.)
My biggest problem with any debate, and wordy articles, is that people put aside God's Word and try to defend their position based on pre-conceived beliefs. Let every man be a liar but God and His Word are TRUE!
I took a values test once years ago, and Power ended up #14 on my list. Guess I won’t be interested in any of the high profile opportunities these folks seem to go for
Whatever goes on in Israel is irrelevancy with regard to the existential threats posed by invasive attack at the country's borders and by attack from subversives within the highest centers of the now captured 'government' (bioweapons, food supply, financial system/inflation, DEW weapons, criminal maladmistration, etc.). And the focus it on Israel and Hamas? Really? What about saving ourselves from extinction?
You’ll change your mind when Biden starts relocating Palestinians to the US. I’m sure we’re developing quite a terrorist network here.
The point is to have a border period ... and no further ethnic cleansing by relocation and/or organized mass trafficking across the would be now non-extent United States borders. And the focus, for me, is not on the Zionist god-state, it is restoring order and Constitutional rule to America. It is Americans and American First. It is real jobs, real money, real sanity. It is real criminal prosecutions for things like covert operations attacks like the C19 vaccine attack.
By the way, the Zionist god-state would just love a flood of Palestinians to the US, Europe, Canada, Australia, New Zealand. It would solve their problem and maybe this is the point of this whole circus? Empty out Gaza. We'll see what gets shoved forward.
Once again folks are having their buttons pushed, their attentions misdirected and sucked in once again.
You are right daverkb.
Jeez! I didn't want to go there but I was wondering when that little nugget was going to show up.
Not my favorite source but here goes:
https://nypost.com/2023/10/14/progressives-call-for-us-to-take-refugees-from-gaza/
Really scary stuff especially living in a "welcoming city"....
Later Jay
No countries in the Middle East want them. But the dumb liberals are eager to bring them to our country. Everything liberals touch turns to shit.
Franklin O'Kanu wrote a very interesting piece the other day regarding this topic suggesting that they were fodder (my take way).
https://unorthodoxy.substack.com/
Frank's got a pretty interesting take on things. He's on here from time to time. Give it a read/listen.
Best to you.
Later Jay
Franklin is one of the 3 Substackers that I read on a regular basis--I concur, Jay!
They're already here.
That was the entire goal of opening our borders. To justify/strategize at-home terrorism--and call another "oops! Biden messed up again!" Biden is in charge of nothing. This open border was well strategized. The "Biden administration" even sued Texas and NM for trying to close the border in their states and received injunction prohibiting those states from putting up barriers. Let that sink in. The worst (at least for Americans) is yet to come.
To Dave's point, again that is the result of the USG's immigration/open border policy.
Hitting Dave’s point, if the border was secure,that would mean immigration law was being enforced, and those neanderthals wouldn’t be coming here. I wonder if the queer college students realize the only men allowed to have sex with little boys are muzzies? And those men kill real queers. I’m not sure what the difference is, but they are.
Our present world system runs on POWER and GREED - and the financiers and power potentates (especially in banking and media) are mostly of the "jewish" persuasion. And soooo.....as the nation of Israel (which I am learning from some commentators whose words I respect is NOT considered to be legitimate by orthodox Jewish people around the globe) goes...so goes the "power potentates" as to their loyalties and verbiage!
Those who call themselves ‘Jews’ but hate the nation of Israel? Every single one is a liberal, just so you know.
https://truthcomestolight.com/zionism-and-the-creation-of-israel/?fbclid=IwAR1P8xqf-3zfDMT4cKBqvqRitX0MaXIHkmOplDVcKPm3Nwy5u0wmvu98I58
This is pretty a straight forward simplistic account (from what I've learned through the years) of the origins of the state of Israel.
The origins of the Land of Israel, come from the Biblical account when Abraham obeyed God and He promised him the land that He showed him. Genesis 15:18 says "On the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram saying, To your descendants I have given this land, FROM the river of Egypt TO the great river Eupharates. So truly, where Israel sits today, is only but a portion of his inheritance... When King Jesus sits on His throne in Jerusalem, His Kingdom will have true borders...
In Gen 17:8 God again tells Abram, "Also I give to you and your descendants after you the land in which you are a stranger, all the land of Canaan, as an everlasting possession: and I will be their God.
To me, THIS IS PRETTY STRAIGHT FORWARD...
The passages are well taken, but I think Elaine Rusky also has a point worthy of good consideration.
Further, those descendants of Abram, then Abraham, became many tribes, in addition to the semitics who became Muslim and those we call Jews. Of these, Jacob (Grandson of Abraham, and son of Isaac and Rebecca) sired (with Rachel and Lea and 2 servants) the 12 tribes of Israel, the people which we think of as the Jews. It was through them the Law, Moses, the prophets, and Christ Himself came. They’re honored in scripture but also are a picture of dishonor. Many descendants of these tribes of Israel scattered to other places as well and lost their identity.
The thing is, the many tribes descended from Abraham not via Jacob/Israel would also be heir to those promises in the Bible which you quote. Yes, the Jews (those of Jacob/Israel) were set apart by God. They were given much else besides. But the greatest gift was Jesus the lamb of God, the Savior, God’s only son, the King of Kings. I cannot conceive of such rejection of God’s greatest and clearest gift, while appropriating all the lesser ones, especially entitlement to a political, secular state and territory, guaranteed from its inception to be at war with its neighbors, being sanctified.
There’s too much to write here, but we know that the consummate Jew, Paul wrote to the Galatians, “There is now neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.“ (Gal. 3:28)
HE is who and what defines God’s people, not a name, heritage, race, status, or history. Not origins or bloodlines or ancestry. In Christ, Jew and Gentile are both one.
As Christians, If we want a homeland for Jews, we should lead them first to the Father by way of the only way to him, via their true Messiah. Then they will be home. If we love them — as we are told to do — first is to seek and serve the kingdom of God. Then all thing will be added by Him. If we love them, as we ought to love all men, we must keep this in mind. But it obviously presents in this day a fine needle to thread. Love, mercy and humble heart will go a long way. Peace.
(Jmo)
When Abraham pleaded with God to allow Ishmael to live before him, to inherit the Blessing, God specifically told him that Abraham's line would be counted through the son of Promise: Isaac... Even though God blessed Ishmael and gave him 12 sons, the Messiah came through Jacob's lineage. You are correct that in Christ there is neither Jew or Gentile, slave or free... IN CHRIST God is NOT done with His people Israel... the land He gave them is theirs in perpetuity...
I think you are conflating the Israel of the Old Testament (God's chosen people, through Abraham) with the modern country, Israel. I think "Israel" today is spiritual (the church) and not an ethnic group of people. I say that because there are no ethnic Jews today. They intermarried constantly throughout history, and they are now indistinguishable from any other mideastern people, from a genetic standpoint. Here's an article about the spiritual nation of Israel:
https://tinyurl.com/u8c8mwad
There's a short article here that gives the basic scriptures leading to this concept of Israel. It has a lot of annoying popups, which you can eventually block by saying you already subscribed. (I don't think there's anything to subscribe to).
https://thesacredfaith.co.uk/home/perma/1444556606/article/new-covenant-israel-is-no-long.html
The ‘church’ has NOT replaced Israel.
That’s a lie perpetrated by the ‘church’.
I know. I grew up in the ‘church’, my father was a pastor who loved Israel and did not misinterpret the Word for the convenience of ‘Jew haters’. The Word says what He says. He is not a capricious God and states over and over and over that Israel is HIS, and as long as the sun and starts remain, Israel will remain His.
We are grafted in when we accept z Yeshua, but when we brag AGAINST Israel? He says he will lop us off that olive tree . I have a reverence for the Word that He is either TRUTH or He isn’t. And I have found that He does NOT lie. Israel is His. And I am Israel chai, as a result of Yeshua the Messiah.
The grafting of a wild olive branch takes three days. Resurrection=3 days.
But we can be cut off just as easily as we were grafted in. It is a dangerous thing to come against His Chosen people.
I know what you are saying, as my late mother was an ardent premillenialist and we discussed the issue quite often. I'm not trying to be fissiparous. God is sovereign.
You are right. This link is interesting. Especially the part on Zionism. In some other ways not totally the complete picture, and the interviewer does not know enough to always ask the right questions. For example, no mention that I can recall of the Talmud. Worth watching in my opinion.
https://rumble.com/v3p3lte-october-13-2023.html
That all the political class is falling all over themselves 'to stand with' that tiny Middle Eastern god-state says it all. But where is all this 'stand for' real borders? Haven't seen it in at least 53 years.
The "real borders" won't be set until the Lion of Judah returns to earth with his army of angelic hosts!! We, who name the name of Jesus Christ the Lord WILL BE PERSECUTED as never before. There is no "rapture" mentioned in the Bible--that is a concept that was concocted in the late 19th century by Pentacostal pastorates.
EVEN SO...COME, LORD JESUS!!
Sharon, what do you do with this bit of Scripture: "For the Lord Himself will descend from Heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. AND the dead in Christ will rise FIRST. Then we who are ALIVE and remain shall be CAUGHT UP (harpaso Gk - rapturo: latin) together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall ALWAYS be with the Lord. 1Thes 4:16-17
C.M. I have sat under the tutelage of well-respected evangelical expository pastor/teachers. Some of them preached the "pre trib" rapture...some preached ""mid trib rapture", some preached "post trib rapture"....so I am of the mindset that I'll await the Lord Jesus Christ's cry COME UP HITHER....if I'm dead then--I'll be "first to meet Him--if I'm still alive..."I'll wait for my brothers and sisters in faith who passed into eternity before me to meet him FIRST....it's "up for interpretation" as far as I am concerned.
One reading of Matthew 27:51-53 is that this has already happened, like many of the events cited by premillenial eschatologists. What do you guys think?
I believe God uses the same type of event 2x or even 3x. I understand that Antiochus IV Epiphanes captured Jerusalem in 167 BC and desecrated the Temple by offering a pig on the altar to Zeus... and we also see the Abomination of Desolation (spoken by Daniel) mentioned by Jesus Himself in Matt 24:15... Would He have mentioned it if it had already happened? Maybe this same scenario happens several times...
Yes, anything is possible. I agree.
Here's a very comprehensive and unbiased dissertation by a professor from Liberty University in VA (Jerry Falwell's university) that I found very holistic and comprehensive. HT is helpful, Elaine and Concerned! https://digitalcommons.liberty.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1008&context=pretrib_arch
Thank you for the article. The author traces the theologians' development of this doctrine. I always thought the Schofield bible footnotes had much to do with it. While helpful, the primary authority I prefer is the New Testament. I'm what I call a pro-millenial, meaning I'm ready for whatever God chooses to do, now and forever. Having almost died twice, I know it's possible that I won't be on Earth for any of it so it's largely academic. (Nothing wrong with that if you're an academic.)
Good mindset, Elaine!!
Thank God for new attitudes. Ephesians 4:23.
My biggest problem with any debate, and wordy articles, is that people put aside God's Word and try to defend their position based on pre-conceived beliefs. Let every man be a liar but God and His Word are TRUE!
AMEN!!
I took a values test once years ago, and Power ended up #14 on my list. Guess I won’t be interested in any of the high profile opportunities these folks seem to go for