There are so many ways to respond to the Flat Earth ‘belief system’ that it would take a rather long post to do so here. But let me just lay this one down: I am a former Merchant Marine Captain, who was fortunate enough to begin my career during the time when global electronic navigation had sufficient gaps in (good) coverage to require celestial, as well as other forms/elements of oceanic navigation to be used. In both celestial, as well as Great Circle navigation, Spherical Trigonometry was used - not Plane Geometry. We are all very familiar with the saying that, ‘The shortest distance between two points is a straight line.’ But, if one set out on a long trans-oceanic voyage and did not use Great Circle Sailing calculations to determine one’s waypoints along the route, one would end up with the certain knowledge that it is a ‘straight’ line is actually a curve across the surface of our planet.
During celestial navigation, we used both Marine and Air Navigation Tables derived from Spherical Trigonometry calculations. I’m confident that there are still many long-distance military and civilian pilots alive who can testify to using the same methods on certain flights in the days prior to fullest development of electronic navigation systems such as LORAN, or the advent of GPS.
Hello, Captain. I’m a former Merchant Marine. I sailed as part of the unlicensed crew and mostly as part of the Black Gang (for non-merchant marines, this term has only to do with being in the engine room elbows deep in grease and grime). On one ship, I was full-time engine room while at sea and worked the deck department during mooring. The captain permitted me, after working my shift and overtime in the engine room, to spend nights on the flying bridge learning navigation using the stars and a sextant during the cumulative 34 days we traversed the Atlantic. I found the learning much more in-depth than the blips on the screen style navigation methods which were also available. The stars are amazing out at sea! I don’t run into many Merchant Marines these days. Fair winds and following seas to you and yours. Good day, Captain.
Wonderful to hear of our shared experiences Lauri! I started in the Engine Room, but quickly realized that Deck was for me! But I loved the Engine Room, and we never under-estimated our need for, or dependence upon, the efforts of that Department! God bless!
I learned how to use a sexant, Naval Almanac, and a watch set to the radio time tick to find latitude/longitude. So fun to work a sextant! Bringing the sun or another star down to the horizon. The clockwork of the sky..
I really think this flat earth nonsense is a psyop to attempt to discredit all “conspiracy theories” and to warn against the “dangers” of thinking for yourself. Don’t fall for it.
I agree, but I’d go one small step further - I’d say it’s primarily intended to undermine the credibility of Bible-believing Christians, many of whom I’ve encountered maintain that they believe it, ‘because the Bible teaches it’…
To be clear, I thank God for the Bible (Old & New Testaments); I literally believe it to be the ultimate authority in regard to anything it touches upon, and the MOST valuable ‘thing’ in our world. It saddens me greatly, however, to see the errors and mistaken beliefs that good, well-meaning people can fall into, when they fail to ‘rightly divide’ the Word.
In my view, the ‘framework’ with which one interacts with the Bible determines, to a very large extent, one’s understanding of the profound, yet often simple, truths expressed within its bounds. I think of those ‘frameworks’ in a manner similar to eyeglass ‘lenses’, the ‘right’ prescription corrects distortions and enables one to see reality correctly both near and far. As one moves further away from that proper and correct prescription, distortions begin to be introduced and, in the far end of that scale, the individual is effectively ‘blind’ to vast amounts of truth that is all around them.
Of course, these statements are probably akin to kicking a hornets nest, as there are vast numbers of people who are so wedded to their time-honored theological perspectives that they feel anything which threatens the full body of Systematic Theology they subscribe to is roughly equivalent to ‘the unforgivable sin’ - which is extremely sad.
Don’t misunderstand me; I DO believe that a sincere Bible believer must guard against error, and the wiles of the Devil, who seeks to pervert and undermine God’s Word - and those who have placed their faith and trust in it. But, as in so many other cases today, the vast majority of people seem to take the ‘easy’ way out, choosing to take and fight for positions because, ‘whatever ‘they’ believe, I believe’, rather than seriously examining the Scriptures, relying on the Holy Spirit to guide and instruct, as the Bereans did with the Apostle Paul’s teachings. The saddest thing of all, to me, is the ‘spirit’ with which the leaders and/or adherents of various groups within Christendom attack one another. All I can say is that such behavior is very definitely not Christ-like, and the following verse seems quite appropriate:
Luke 9:55
But He turned and rebuked them, and said, “You do not know what manner of spirit you are of.
That what I think, a psy-opt cultivated make Christians look ignorant stupid. And also to sow dissension, interminable bickering, division ... the usual smashing of the mirror tactics.
I even seen some alleged Christian Flater Earthers say if you don't believe such and such verse means such and such, then you are a heretic. And also, I've seen Humpty Dumpty made up terms like 'Biblical Cosmology' as if a serious scientific discipline could be possibly extracted, lifted out whole and intact from Scripture.
Agree. Dr. Jason Lisle, a Christian astrophysicist (biblicalscienceinstitute.com) is a wonderful resource for Christians in researching the truth about the earth.
TBH Michelle, you’ve probably checked out his site further than I have; I’ve only seen him participate in discussions/debates regarding Young vs Old Earth, or speak to limited astrophysics subjects. My thoughts have been to explore further; I just haven’t gotten around to it - yet! Now, I’ll probably move it up the priority chain.
I do believe in a global flood, and would definitely disagree with anyone on that question. However, I disagree with many of my Christian Brothers and Sisters, as well as many of the Christian leaders and Bible Teachers I greatly respect, over the age of the Earth issue. I have seen and heard many proclaim that not believing in a Young Earth is heretical; that it ‘undermines the foundation of the Bible’, and various other things that basically amount to disbelief and, therefore, SIN… My heart grieves when I hear these people say such things, because I firmly believe that the Bible does not, specifically, give us the Creation age of the Earth. Very often, it seems to me that the Young Earth adherents main concern is that an Old Earth belief gives the Evolutionists cover for their claims. I understand their logic, but consider it flawed, because the Bible makes it very, very clear that God created all things; originally from ‘no-things’, by speaking them into existence - not through evolutionary processes. There is no question of that, and I would agree that anyone who does not accept that is, in fact, a heretic/false teacher - or someone who has been deceived by/fallen under the spell of such a teacher.
Again, a BIG subject, almost guaranteed to excite passionate (and often, tragically, very un-Christian) responses.
I firmly reject the contention that belief in an Old Earth = Apostacy/Hearsy/False Teaching/Cop-Out to Gain Acceptsnce from ‘the World’. BUT, it is not a salvation issue! What someone believes about Jesus Christ, as Son of God, the sacrifice for Sin, the Ressurection, and that He (and only He) is the only - and essential - way to be Born Again; The Way, The Truth, and The Life - that is the matter on which Salvation and Eternal Life rests, and only that. This doesn’t mean that nothing else matters, because the rest of the Bible revelations do matter a tremendous amount! The proper understanding and integration of the other Truths revealed in the Bible have very profound practical implications; for the individual (particularly the quality of their relationship with God), his/her family and friends, and, ultimately, for the glory of God and His Kingdom.
Again, a longer post than I expected. Thank you for all your sharing!
John 10:16 Jesus says “And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd” This could mean gentiles, aliens, angels. Yes we can’t put God in a box. All creatures are created by God and that includes aliens if they exist. It won’t change my belief in Jesus and God.
I agree with your sentiment totally. God is the Creator of all creation. However, in this passage, Jesus was referring specifically to the change in God's covenant with Israel with the coming of the Messiah. He is referring to the grafting in of the wild olive branches (Gentiles) into the native olive tree (the Israel of God) and all will be the body of Christ on earth with one Lord, the risen King.
du-du du-du dooo-du and onto the Twilight Zone where the unreal is the real. But really, all I can tell you is that I haven't ever seen the a space alien. But DeWife on the other hand claims that I am a space. And so whereas I have not, maybe she has. (Mysteries of the Universe!)
Here's McLeod. Always clear and straight up. You should not miss it.
There must be something in the ether. I just finished writing a comment about the debt trap which I'll post in the morning. Haven't seen your video yet...it's on my to-do list but I suspect it's on the same subject.
Let me see ... the either? Or maybe that's the either in the either? Or the ether in the ethernet? Or either, ether ... or the either ether ore ???? I quite don't have the clue no more what with the ice wall, the dome and now the black sun under the flat disc with the hole in it. Or is the the desk or the здесь, or what with all these words all sounding hopelessly the same. Plus I am paranoid because I think that 'somebody' is trying to kill 2 billion or 5 billion or more people, turn ants in man eating robots plus turn Dunkin' Donuts into frisbee-like flying bio-weapons ... and one toss ... kha-dong you're dead !!!!
Well, the debt trap. I am more straight up on that. The debt trap is what you get when you let avaricious rampaging three to five year olds run government and the financial institutions ... and all with Monopoly Money supplied courtesy of the Parker Brothers. Somebody ends up with the Boardwalk, Park Place and all the banks and railroads and the rest of us find ourselves flat broke and living in sticky roach traps. That is the debt trap.
I do find it funny that it's okay to believe in alien species from out in the galaxy though. They don't call that a conspiracy theory. I often wonder if an intelligent species did come to the planet one time, watched the humans, shook their heads and said "We don't need to worry about them. They will destroy themselves then we can come back and clean up the mess." JK.
Just question everything.... Not long ago we were taught flat earth. The WHO logo is flat earth.
NASA lies and they push globe really hard... so why not question it?
There is a lot of Biblical evidence as well, and very old Bibles actually say flat earth and NASA's numbers about the earth are "strange"...
Why does it matter? It matters because globe earth makes us insignificant in the realm of things.
Flat earth shows that the moon and stars rotate around us so we are the center which makes earth significant to God as he made it all for us.
I really don't know but I am starting to believe the opposite of what they tell us since it is often the case. BTW masons have a different perspective and we all know astronots are masons so...
'Supposed' Freemason draws true depiction of Earth
I do agree to question everything but that doesn’t necessitate that everything we think we know is wrong. A lot is, yes, but everything, no. Re flat earth, ask a military sniper, sailor or pilot.
The problem is, though, if you go far enough down that path you can end up thinking "anyone who tells me I'm wrong is lying to me because they are part of the conspiracy", and then your belief becomes literally unfalsifiable, and it's then no longer a genuine search for truth but just a search for more ways to justify a belief. So just, be cautious and use a consistent standard for when to believe or disbelieve people.
That is pretty extreme. I just wonder about them. If there is enough evidence, I consider it.
It is a clown world when our president can't stand trial for a crime, but can still run the country....
Stay sane!
Here are a couple related quotes...
The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in the mind at the same time and still retain the ability to function. - F. Scott Fitzgerald
CIA Director William Casey - "We'll
know our disinformation program is complete
when everything the American public believes is
false" (not sure if true but CIA does worse)
It is not a matter of what is true that counts, but a matter of what is perceived to be true. - Henry A. Kissinger
In the 19th century to the early 20th, there was a Utopian community in Estero, Florida, called Koreshan. Their model of the earth has the surface of the earth on the inside of a sphere, with the sun. and planets in the center. There are still people who believe this theory, particularly in Germany, despite the impossibility of this model.
Maybe I should take the globe off the mantle and put up a computer disc in its place. But I have a real problem. I can't figure out what to use for the 'black sun'?
Mariners would find this book interesting, at a minimum. I found it fascinating. The verse above, The Heavens declare...." was in mind always, while reading it. It was written for stranded sailors and downed airmen in WWII.
Finding Your Way Without Map or Compass, by Harold Gatty
Thank you. I am building a library of ‘how to’ and current history books for my grandkids and extended generations. Just in case history is erased. I ordered this. Appreciate it.
My list consists of a Websters Dictionary from the late 90s and a copy of Back To Basics: How to Learn and Enjoy Traditional American Skills from 1981. I'd love to add more to that list.
I don’t have a list and I cannot post pictures here. I still have some on Kindle I need to replace with a real book.
You can do the same thing.
The Lost Ways is a great place to start. Many of the Covid fraud books, and others that record what has happened in the last four years.
Prepping, Survivalist, preserving foods, etc. gardening, saving seeds, identifying plants. Like the book mentioned above - how to read nature: Weather, water flow, sky, sources of water…. Off grid, homesteading, creating like minded communities…. How to communicate if power is down. Natural medicines!
Bartering!
There are many free pdf books available too.
I think it’s important because today’s young adults and kids don’t know, and are not being taught. I want the information in their hands if ever needed. Who knows- it may be another 2-3 generations until it is needed. But it helps me feel like I can contribute, even if I am long gone. I will write messages to them in the books too.
I don’t have a set, but I’ve always thought the Foxfire books would be of value. They can be purchased easily via Amazon (I know!) as a complete set, in sub-sets, or individually. God bless!
I just bought a few for each son and grandchild! 2 sons are pilots and in military so I hope they will enjoy this book! Thank you for posting! Thank you both for your comments and delightful knowledge share! God bless you and your families! 🦋
Nuttier things have happened and yes it could be.... but maybe not?
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." - CIA Director William Casey 1981
It is not really as nuts as I originally thought. I also didn't believe a lot of things that are true like they want to depopulate us. It was literally written in stone, but the 20ft granite GA Guidestones were struck by "lightning" and cleaned up in a day or two?
FYI, when there is distance from an object, it becomes smaller... like the sun on the other side of the flat earth. IDK for sure but NASA lies about data.
If you seriously looked at the flat earth info, you would know, but you are free to believe some masons went to the moon in a tin can and now lost the technology to go back. and spoke to the president on a landline with no delay... and JFK was killed by Oswald... and 911 was al-Qaeda terrorists and not an inside job.
Thank you Mike! It is always such a breath of fresh air when real life experience is brought to bear on these "theories". The psyops that is being imposed on America seems to affect everything!
Yes! I started in aviation in the 60’s and at best, for long range navigation we had LORAN, ADF, CONSOLAN, PLOP…but the most reliable (when we were above the clouds) was celestial navigation using a periscopic sextant.
Then came OMEGA, INS, and now GPS. Where we were once ecstatic to arrive within miles of our intended destination, now anything more than a few yards off the mark is a disappointment. Oh my, how far we’ve come!
Amen, JT! I can definitely relate to that thrill - and great satisfaction - of fixing your location with a few miles of one’s Estimated Position! This was especially true at sea, after what might be a prolonged period without favorable conditions for sights. I knew there had to be people like yourself amongst the readers here; I wish we could somehow ‘pin’ your comment to the top of the string! God bless!
Do you think earth might be flat? I think it might be flat. Why is there so much shame in questioning it? It's been drilled in our head so it is difficult for us to even consider.
I have not been to space or conducted an experiment so I must believe what I am told, but we all know we are lied to so...
Questioning is science and we have never been to space to prove it ourselves.
Dawn, I can certainly understand how people across time could, and did, believe the earth is flat. But I don’t believe it is for many reasons, nor do I believe the Bible teaches it - although I am aware of the verses that people use to try and support such a view/belief.
While so many in our world remain ‘blissfully ignorant’ of the evils that are so powerfully in play in our world today, it’s safe to say that virtually all C&C readers are somewhat ‘shell-shocked’ by the revelations of corruption, fraud, organized and coordinated deception, evil, and ‘wickedness in high places’ that have been brought into the open over the past four years, in particular.
We live and move in a world that is amazing, and full of blessings, in so many ways - yet it is also a world in which discerning ‘Truth’ is exceedingly difficult. And the vast number of people in our midst don’t care, are too intellectually ‘lazy’, are too burdened by pressing concerns, or are too preoccupied with other matters, to even try to grapple with the maze of information and truth-claims that pervade our lives today. It’s a perfect environment for deception, and I would say that is the dominant characteristic of our day and time.
So, I understand ‘questioning everything’ - and I agree with it, to a certain extent. And that’s the ‘rub’, isn’t it; ‘To what extent do I question everything, and how can I know what is trustworthy?’
No doubt, there are countless views/beliefs regarding that held by readers of C&C but, one of the most comforting things I have found, is that so many of us recognize, as Jeff C. does, that the Word of God is ‘…a lamp to my feet and a light to my path.’ (Psalms 119:105)
In a prior comment above, I made the statement that I sincerely regard the Bible (Old & New Testaments) as the MOST valuable ‘thing’ in this world. It is precisely for this reason that I hold that view; because it is, in regard to anything it touches upon (which happens to be everything that truly matters), the ‘Touchstone’ by which Truth vs ‘less than Truth’ (or worse) can be judged. That said, such a blessing can only be realized fully by those who are guided and instructed in it by the Holy Spirit - and that only happens (other than incidentally, should God choose), in the lives of those who have been ‘Born Again’ by the Spirit; those who have accepted and embraced the salvation and redemption God the Father made possible through God the Son (Jesus Christ), worked out within the life of the believer by God the Holy Spirit.
Apart from that being real in the individuals life, I suspect the Bible might prove to be of more harm than good. But, even when it is real in a believer’s life, there is an unavoidable process of spiritual growth and maturity that must accompany it:
“…that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give to you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him, the eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that you may know what is the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints, and what is the exceeding greatness of His power toward us who believe, according to the working of His mighty power which He worked in Christ when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places, far above all principality and power and might and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in that which is to come.” Ephesians 1:17-21
Toward that end we, as individual believers, have a role to play; we can take this seriously and apply ourselves diligently to growing in our knowledge of, love for, and trust in the God of the Bible. If that’s what we choose to commit ourselves to, we must:
“Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. But shun profane and idle babblings, for they will increase to more ungodliness.”
2 Timothy 2:15-16
And, recognizing our dependence on the guidance and instruction of the Holy Spirit, and praying for discernment and protection against error or deception, we can then:
“Rejoice always, pray without ceasing, in everything give thanks; for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you.
Do not quench the Spirit. Do not despise prophecies. Test all things; hold fast what is good. Abstain from every form of evil.”
1 Thessalonians 5:16-22
While the Word of God is a veritable treasure chest of invaluable Truth and instruction, all of that gives us more than enough constructive guidance on how we should order our affairs in this day and age.
This is way longer than I dreamed it would be at the beginning, but I’ll conclude with this final portion of Scripture:
(Be Steadfast)
“Therefore, beloved, looking forward to these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, without spot and blameless; and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation—as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.
You therefore, beloved, since you know this beforehand, beware lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the error of the wicked; but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
Very true and thoughtful thank you. Our focus does not need to be the shape of the earth but on things that are good. I wouldn't even consider it if I didn't have a Godly perspective on the earth. He made the sun, moon and stars for us.
As far as the Bible being more harmful than good, it really depends on one's heart. God knows our hearts and I don't doubt God, only man.
IDK if the earth is a globe or flat since I have never been to space, and I doubt any astronauts have either. I have seen enough NASA lies and contrary evidence to consider it might be a big lie... kinda like big covid lie.
I understand Dawn, and I definitely agree that ‘the heart’ is the key issue:
“…For the LORD does not see as man sees; for man looks at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart.”
1 Samuel 16:7b
In fact, that is the crux of the Gospel; we are born in ‘sin’ - a heart that will naturally seek its own will above God’s; that will ultimately rebel against God - and that will ultimately lead us to destruction and eternal separation from God, unless we receive ‘new hearts’ through being ‘born again’ by the Spirit of God. And, according to the New Testament, that comes by faith in the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, trusting Him as our Redeeming Savior.
Along with that new heart, we receive the Holy Spirit, to guide and instruct us in all things - including the discernment to recognize deceptions that we would have no hope of seeing otherwise. That particular gift is of great importance today, and it will only become more important as we move forward. God bless!
Beautifully said. God will reveal the mysteries and questions. For now, I can speculate. LOL
John 16:12-13 AMP
12 “I have many more things to say to you, but you cannot bear [to hear] them now. 13 But when He, the Spirit of Truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth [full and complete truth]. For He will not speak on His own initiative, but He will speak whatever He hears [from the Father—the message regarding the Son], and He will disclose to you what is to come [in the future].
Thanks a lot but it didn't confirm. Check out my Bible verses and let me know what you think.
I 100% believe the Bible, and no man. I hope it is a globe but....
The Bible implies flat earth, but James said it implies globe. He notes there are pics from space, but those can be fake CGI. 4 min https://www.bitchute.com/video/3fcFd4IzuxBO/
From the site 1st paragraph...
""What do a round Earth, natural selection, and dinosaurs have in common? They are all things that are demonstrably true and biblical that some professing Christians deny. All of these things are mentioned or implied in Scripture.""
I can agree with natural selection, but the rest is not proved. The dinosaurs could be faked just like the Neanderthal and Cro-Magnon man. The earth is not billions of years old either like they say as fact. The Bible speaks of a dragon-like leviathan in Job 41, but not about all the dinos they show us and none of them breath fire like the leviathan. Why don't they show us all the giant bones discovered? Giants were real.
The scripture Jason noted for globe is Job 26:7,10 .... What part of this implies globe earth?
""He spreads out the northern skies over empty space; he suspends the earth over nothing.
8 He wraps up the waters in his clouds, yet the clouds do not burst under their weight.
9 He covers the face of the full moon, spreading his clouds over it.
10 He marks out the horizon on the face of the waters for a boundary between light and darkness.""
A couple verses I found implies flat earth IMHO.
Isaiah 40:22
It is He who sits above the circle of the earth, ((not a sphere))
And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers;
[It is He] who stretches out the heavens like a veil
And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in. ((tent is like a dome))
Proverbs 8:27
“When He established the heavens, I [Wisdom] was there;
When He drew a circle upon the face of the deep ((a circle is flat))
Psalm 104:5
He established the earth on its foundations, ((foundations are flat when building))
So that it will not be moved forever and ever. ((so how fast do they say we rotate/orbit?))
Revelation 1:7
7 Behold, He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him; and all the tribes (nations) of the earth will mourn over Him [realizing their sin and guilt, and anticipating the coming wrath]. [a]So it is to be. Amen. ((I guess on a globe some might see Him 12 hours late))
Job 38:8, 14 ... God speaking to Job
8 “Or who enclosed the sea with doors (((with a wall, not around a globe))
When it burst forth and went out of the womb;
14 “The earth is changed like clay into which a seal is pressed; ((you press a seal flat))
Ezekiel 1:26 1599 Geneva Bible
Now above the ·dome [vault; expanse; or platform] there was something that looked like a throne. It looked like ·a sapphire gem [or lapis lazuli]. And on the throne high above was a ·shape [form; figure] like a ·human [man].
Amos 9:6
It is He who builds His upper chambers in the heavens
And has established His vaulted dome (the firmament of heaven) over the earth,
In the NASB translation I use (1995), Job 26:10 says "He has inscribed a circle on the surface of the waters At the boundary of light and darkness." This is worded a little differently that how it is translated in your comment. I really like the NASB translation because it is a word for word translation, rather than thought for thought. If you use the "Literal Word" app, you can see the exact translation of each word from the Hebrew or Greek. This verse, Isaiah 40:22, and Proverbs 8:27 all mention a circle. The prevailing thinking when these were written was that the earth was flat. But keep in mind that when viewed from above (as suggested in Isaiah 40:22), a sphere appears as a circle.
For Psalm 104:5, the NASB (again, a word for word translation) renders it "He established the earth upon its foundations, So that it will not totter forever and ever." The Hebrew word translated as "totter" means (1) to totter, shake, slip; (2) to be shaken, be moved, be overthrown; (3) to dislodge, let fall, drop; (4) to be greatly shaken. To me, this doesn't preclude the earth's rotation or orbit around the sun. This implies to me that the earth shall not be removed from it's orbit...
Job 38:14 (NASB 1995) "It is changed like clay under the seal; And they stand forth like a garment." The Hebrew word translated "changed" means to turn, turn about, turn over, turn around. Seals at that time were cylindrical in shape (sometimes as a ring, which we read elsewhere in the Bible). See the photos at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cylinder_seal. My John MacArthur commentary says this:
"Documents written on clay tablets were signed using personal engraved seals upon which was written the bearer's name. The Hebrew for "changed" is "turned." It conveys the idea that the earth is turned or rotated like a cylindrical seal rolled over the soft clay. Such rolling cylinder seals were found in Babylon. This speaks of the earth, rotating on its axis, an amazing statement that only God could reveal in ancient days. The dawn rolls across the earth as it rotates."
That is also my observation, that the dawn rolls across the earth as it rotates." If we were a flat earth, we would all have day and night at the same time. We wouldn't have sunrise and sunset occurring in sequence as you move across the surface of the earth. I see in this article (https://biblicalscienceinstitute.com/apologetics/is-the-earth-really-round/) that proponents of flat earth do have an explanation for this phenomenon, but Dr. Lisle goes on to explain mathematically that sunrise and sunset are not actually possible with the the modern flat earth model (north pole at center, Antarctica around edge of circle).
As for Ezekiel 1:26 and Amos 9:6 which mention "the dome," my thought is just that it aligns with the prevailing assumption of a flat earth at that time.
I though I sent this but I don't see it in the comments. I copied it before I replied so here it is again...
Thank you for your thoughful in depth response. God wants us to study and there is always room to learn. The only reason I have not let this particular conspiracy go is because it makes us just another planet, and another BIG way to keep people from God. We are much more to God than that and were created a little lower than the angels. Jesus became like us to save us, not angels, only us.
I use several translations to get an in depth understanding when deep diving into scripture. Using one may not be sufficient and the literal word app is based on the NASB only but seems like a great version.
Yes the current view was flat earth, but wasn't it written divinely? Totter is definitely open to interpretation but it could mean moved or dislodged from its place. If the earth moved or tottered, we would feel it, and I don't feel us rotating or sideways on an axis. Gravity is also an issue of scientism. Weight causes things to fall. A helium balloon floats as it is lighter than air and gravity does not hold it down. They make simple things complicated so we don't really understand but accept it since we don't.
They say, "the Earth spinning on its axis, the planet is also speeding at about 66,600 miles per hour"
You believe it? Did God do that? Seriously watch the 2 min video and let me know what you think.
I didn't question globe earth in a day. I kept seeing it and compelled to finally look. They push it as hard as a covid jab, and if everyone questioned it, they would lose their grip on us in everything.
Job 38:14 "It is changed like clay under the seal; And they stand forth like a garment."
God compares the earth to clay seal that was pressed, not before it was pressed. Seals make bumps and ridges and they stand out like beautiful (garment) mountains do. Seals were also commonly circular which the flat earth is possibly round and not spherical. Changed means to me how God molded the earth like clay or wax in creating it, and it is no longer what it was, not continually changing or rotating. Wouldn't God say that plainly if it were?
((That is also my observation, that the dawn rolls across the earth as it rotates." If we were a flat earth, we would all have day and night at the same time.)) I picture the dawn as you roll dough. The roller rolls across the dough. In the flat earth model, the sun and moon are spherical and the roll over the the plane earth. Doesn't light fade with distance? When the sun "rolls" around the circle, the distance causes it's light to fade like things get smaller with distance. The sun and moon do change their patterns for seasons.
Ezekiel 1:26 and Amos verses about the dome... How does it align with a flat earth belief at that time? Where would they get the idea or write it if it was not divine by God? It does not matter what they believe at the time, like when Revelation was written. John didn't know but described it in words.
I don't feel like it makes us just another planet at all! God has specially fined-tuned our planet to allow life. We are just the right distance from the sun, for one example. Any farther away and we'd freeze, any closer, and we'd burn up. A great resource for learning about the MANY ways God has fine-tuned earth for life (and the probably against all those things coming together by chance) is Stephen Meyer (stephenmeyer.org). He did a great teaching series for Focus on the Family's "The Truth Project/TrueU" called "Does God Exist?" with the subtitle "building the scientific case." Some of it is pretty technical, aimed at college-age and above, but it is excellent at helping you understand just how UNLIKELY life on our planet is, yet here we are. It is very special indeed. When I watched the series, years ago, it was available on Amazon Prime Video. It is out there on DVD as well. I was able to pick up a used copy of it on DVD. Maybe your library would have it?
The Literal Word app used to just be NASB, but now you can choose from NASB, ESV, LSB, and KJV from the settings menu. It does not include NIV or NLT, as those are thought-for-thought translations, not word-for-word. I agree that comparing different translations can be very helpful in understanding, but I would warn against Eugene Peterson's "The Message." It is not a translation. It is a paraphrase, and a bad one at that. There's another paraphrase out there I'd warn against, but I can't remember the name of it or the author...
Gravity. Gravity is a force that pulls us downward, toward the center of the approximately spherical earth. The reason that helium balloon floats is that the upward buoyant force (which is in the opposite direction as the gravitational force, and is caused by the helium being lighter than air just as you mentioned) is so much greater than the gravitational force pulling it down (i.e., its weight, because its mass is so light).
So the earth is speeding around in its orbit at a speed of 29.78 kilometers per second, or 66,620 mph. You don't feel this, because you are speeding around at the same speed. You would only notice the movement if it slowed down or sped up, much like how your stomach feels in an elevator. Your stomach tries to stay in the same position it was, until it is dragged along by the rest of your body. You feel the change, but once all of you is moving at the same speed of the elevator, you don't notice it again until it slows down again. To understand what is going on, it helps to understand a physics principle called "frames of reference." Here is a great short educational video from Khan Academy explaining frames of reference: https://youtu.be/3yaZ7lkQPUQ. You also don't notice the earth spinning for the same reason; you are going right along with it at the same speed.
Job 38:14, perhaps the comparison of the earth to clay describes how God shaped all the mountains, hills, valleys, oceans initially, and reshaped it during the Great Flood of Noah's day, and will again after the millennial kingdom when He creates the new heaven and new earth?
In that video of the modern flat earth model, it appears to me it would always be dark in Antarctica, which isn't the case.... The tilt of the earth is what causes our seasons. We have winter when we are in the part of earth's orbit where we are tilted away from the sun, and we have summer when we are in the part of the orbit where we are tilted toward the sun.
Keep in mind that Galileo, Johannes Kepler, Copernicus, and Isaac Newton were all men of God who studied the heavens to glorify God.
"Gravity explains the motions of the planets, but it cannot explain who sets the planets in motion." --Isaac Newton
"Atheism is so senseless. When I look at the solar system, I see the earth at the right distance from the sun to receive the proper amounts of heat and light. This did not happen by chance." --Isaac Newton
"In the absence of any other proof, the thumb alone would convince me of God's existence." --Isaac Newton
"This most beautiful system of the sun, planets and comets, could only proceed from the counsel and dominion of an intelligent and powerful Being." --Isaac Newton
"The laws of nature are written by the hand of God in the language of mathematics." --Galileo Galilei
"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with senses, reason, and intellect has intended us to forego their use." --Galileo Galilei
"Science is the process of thinking God's thoughts after Him." --Johannes Kepler
"The wisdom of the Lord is infinite as are also His glory and His power. Ye heavens, sing His praises; sun, moon, and planets, glorify Him in your ineffable language! Praise Him, celestial harmonies, and all ye who can comprehend them! And thou, my soul, praise thy Creator! It is by Him and in Him that all exist." --Johannes Kepler
"I had the intention of becoming a theologian...but now I see how God is, by my endeavors, also glorified in astronomy, for 'the heavens declare the glory of God.' " --Johannes Kepler
"To know the mighty works of God, to comprehend His wisdom and majesty and power; to appreciate, in degree, the wonderful workings of His laws, surely all this must be a pleasing and acceptable mode of worship to the Most High, to whom ignorance cannot be more grateful than knowledge." --Nicolaus Copernicus
I completely understand questioning everything. Especially after the last 4 years of seeing the lies so blatantly. I now believe they have been lying to us for much longer than that, i.e., 9/11, the Kennedy assassination, etc. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if they did fake the moon landing. However, I 100% believe the earth is round. Just because many things have been lies doesn't mean everything is. ♥️
Thanks for the discussion. Maybe I will convince you. BTW I am getting a NASB Bible and the app too! I can't stand The Message. My mother thought it was a good idea and got me a beautiful one I opened once.
The reason I am leaning toward flat earth is because they have their symbolism all over it and knowing sun worship is a pagan belief, they make it the center of our system. That is the reason I started doubting. I encourage you to question it and watch the links then please let me know what you think. Most people wouldn't even look, but if it is not of God, wouldn't you want to know?
I didn't think it possible myself, I just accepted what I was taught.... until I investigated. If you were taught flat earth from birth, you wouldn't believe it was round. I think it might be flat just based on NASA lies and the Bible. I could argue for both because I have studied a little flat earth, but someone who has not, cannot argue since they have not learned it.
Before I dive into your thoughtful response, here is the Biblical creation of sun and moon...
Gen 1 - vs. 1 God created the heavens and the earth at the same time. He said "light" and it was so, separating the from darkness...night and day... vs. 6,7 There was water everywhere until He created a "vault" (dome?) to separate the water from water. He separated the water under the vault from the water above it. (He is saying there is water under and above the vault. Therefore, if we went outside/above our vault, we would be in water. In the flat earth there is water above our "dome") He called the vault "sky." Def. Vault - Architectural term for an arched form used to provide a space with a ceiling or roof... It seems like a dome to me.
vs. 15 "and let them be lights in the vaultnof the sky to give light on the earth.” (They are close IN THE VAULT, and not 93 million miles away.)
16 "God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. 17 God set them in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth, " (The moon has it's own light not a reflection as told.)
Response: We don't feel that we are just another planet, but to others, they trust the science and not God who created it. We are perfectly the right distance from the sun for life to exist as God intended which is why it makes more sense that our sun is in our vault and not 93 mil mi away in space.
Helium is lighter than air and rises and nothing to do with gravity. It's made up scientism. If gravity were real we would not be flying in planes. Force, not gravity keeps us on the ground and allows planes to fly.
Job 38:14 is figuratively how God shaped the earth and mountains, but my point was how the earth is likely flat. God pressed the earth and it would not be a good metaphor if the earth was a ball.
Khan Academy is indoctinating and used to teach in public schools. It has its uses.
So when flying, do the pilots subtract the speed of the earth or add to it when flying to a destination? If the earth is moving and they are traveling the same direction then wouldn't they get there faster? Or the opposite direction and get there never?
I clocked a plane's speed when I was inside at over 300 MPH. I did not feel it so I see your point about not feeling the earth, but 300 MPH and 66,660 MPH is waaay different. A lot of 6's too...
Those philosphers theorized and were not men of God. They were deceivers and directed our eyes away from God and pointed people to scientism theories instead. Newton invented gravity in 1666 and he believed in a god, just not ours. Galileo was a sun worshipper and supported heliocentrism which is paganism. The sun is not the center of our galaxy. We are the center as God made it and the sun is in our vault and local. That is flat earth belief. Have you noticed our holidays have pagan roots? Have you thought about why the medical logo is a staff and 2 snakes? Even oreo cookies have pagan symbols on them. No joke. I think it is the leviathan or knights templar symbol.
John 5:19 says, "the whole world lies in the power of the evil one."
We have not left our vault. They sure get a lot of money for going nowhere. Astronaut Don Petite said we can't go back to the moon because they lost the technology. In 1969, Pres Nixon talked to the men on the moon with no time delay (which is faster than the speed of light) through the van allen belt and 250,000 miles... and traveled in a thing that looked less stable than a tin can. No way.
Hi Dawn, I hope you are doing well. This is a long video (4 hrs, 12 min), but it addresses many of the questions you had about the shape of the earth. You can also find it on Justin Peters podcast, Didache’, episode 119. Justin Peters is a trustworthy man of God who is Biblically sound. God bless. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdI3mtHIyoA
Oh my goodness.... I just had this long reply typed out to you, and then accidentally closed it while shuffling other pages to include links!!! I am so mad at myself!!! It will take me some time to recreate it, and it's already midnight.... But I will!
It amuses me that the Flat Earther maps always show a circular map with the 'ice wall' running the entire circumference. Regarding this, sail vessels were going everywhere for the last 500 to 600 years at least and guess what? No reports of ever running into The Ice Wall.
Also, and something I'd like to know. This being it is my understanding is that the effective seeing distance to the horizon line is around fifty to sixty miles after which an object (vessel) begins to disappear over the horizon line. Is this distance correct figure? And with the superstructure being higher off the water line, the distance might well be extended some (a reason why lighthouses are built tall so as to extend the reach of the beacon.
I imagine Flat Earthers also don't believe in the space station and think that the photographic imagery of the globe earth is all a conjuring performed by Satanic Beings.
Well, don't crash through the ice wall. One breach might empty all the water out. And be careful to not hit your head on The Dome, otherwise you might hear some mighty peculiar things coming out of your mouth..
It’s definitely not the hill I’m going to die on, but there so no shame in asking questions about our Earth. How dark is the other side of the globe when we have both sun and moon over North America? How was the North Star reliable for navigation if we are spinning 1000 miles an hour and flying through space at 66,000 mph? Do pilots keep nosing down in flight to maintain correct altitude over the curve? Inquiring minds and all….
I appreciate that you think that these are serious questions, but they are not so much so ... at least, not so in any revolutionary sense. I won't waste my time here except to say:
1) Yes, the flight of an airplane does have to conform to the earth curvature. Due to scale, the adjustment is not noticeable. And so yes, the plane does have to maintain altitude over distance relative to curvature.
2) As pointed out yesterday by a ship's captain, vessels used spherical trigonometry for navigational purposes, and not plane geometry. And I figure a ship's captain with all his responsibilities must know his trade, or else not be a captain for long.
DeWife suggests you read Falling Flat by Danny M. Faulkner. And I trust the DeWife on this as she is no intellectual lightweight.
I appreciate you addressing my thoughts and questions. Usually people just name call and dismiss such wondering, just as I was name called and dismissed for my plandemic wondering.
Hi Nancy ... and I truly appreciate your reply. And yes, name calling and such is usually not too helpful. And yet discernment is incumbent upon us just as being a necessary tool of our survival and general well-being. That is, we should not desire to follow the fool to perdition, nor permit ourselves to be deceived by the errant learned, nor by the wicked seeking only their own gain, their own selfish self-aggrandisement. And by the way, the lines of demarcation are not always so crystal clear as we would like.
DeWife recently went through a long thing on Flat Earth with a longstanding acquiescence of hers. I initially though it a futile exercise, a sort of down the rabbit's hole and around the Looking Glass mission with hooka smoking caterpillars along the way. Actually, DeWife learned a great deal along the way. And I vicariously learned a thing or two as well. And so, I am glad not have tried to squash the thing.
Here's another plane thing. Say you are a passenger on a plane which is going 500 miles an hour at 35,000 feet at cruising speed. You get up from your seat. You walk forward towards the cockpit and then walk back towards the tail and your seat. Walking forward and your body is moving faster than the plane is relative to the ground. On the way back to your seat and walking towards the tail of the plane your body is actually moving slower then the plane relative to the ground. Do you ever notice this? Impossible because of scale. Your speed up and down the aisle relative to the airplane's speed is so infinitesimal a difference as to be undeclinable. And yet it is there, and it could be mathematically expressed by a simple math equation. But why would one wish to bother.
As to planes and cars, we can feel acceleration and deceleration. And we can also feel changes in angular momentum. But at cruising speed, you might as well be at home sitting in an easy chair and watching images flash by on the TV set. Whether on a plane or car it is the same. And the earth movement is very much the same. Simply stated the earth is like a really huge big moving plane or car. There is one huge difference. Since the earth's movements are constant, there is never any acceleration or deacceleration, nor is there any change in angular momentum.
I could say more, particular about methods good and bad of argumentation which are tells either to the good or bad. But instead, I will proffer and one opinion and one observation. My opinion is, and by means and construction, this Flat Earth stuff has the appearance of being a psy-opt deliberately designed to keep people at each other's throats as yet one more detraction from what is really going on. My observation is (in part) that the psy-opt has the effect of making Christians and Christianity look stupid, a subtle way of tearing down God. And also, there is your observation as to inducing name calling and dismissal. Also, there are similarities as to the Plandemic facilitation.
Again, nice to hear back from you. And with our best to you, both DeWife and Moi-Meme.
I would not call myself a flat earther, but do entertain the idea. I don't really care but I don't believe NASA.
There are reports and pics of the ice wall, and why are we not allowed to go to Antarctica? Suspect...
Distance makes an object become smaller but with a strong telescopic lens you can zoom into something that can't be seen. It looks like the sun is going down but it is further away... zoom in on setting sun... 30 seconds - https://www.bitchute.com/video/mJkizmk69MnN/
No to aliens... they are demons
No space station... We went to the moon in a tin can and now lost the tech to go back, talked to the pres on a landline with no delay from the moon??? Do you believe that and those fake pics/video from the moon? The shadows don't line up, the tracks are not there or dust disturbed from landing.
Because there are massive inconsistencies, anomalies in one thing does not mean that the another thing of a related type is not true. Whatever the case or cases may be.
And because most things in this world from 'on high' are mostly lies does not mean everything is a lie. And in point of fact, habitual liars like to blend lies and truth together precisely because it furthers their lie or lies.
And in cases where 'things don't add up', one does not always have to 'take a side' or come to determination until the final results are in beyond a reasonable question of doubt. For example, I don't know if space aliens exist or not. I can only tell you that to the best of my knowledge, I never saw one. And I don't know personally a single person who has ever claimed to have seen a space alien. However, and no matter how doubtful, just because I never saw a space alien in and of itself does not mean they don't exist. What I am implying here really has nothing to do with space aliens per se. It is more a caution to care in how one thinks, and in how one comes to conclusions. And by the way, jumping the shark with too much hasty enthusiasm is most definitely not a recommended methodology.
Nope. I am just speculating and keeping an open mind. I have, however, seen a lot of the flat earth truths that are very convincing and how NASA makes thing satanic.
I don't know for sure and won't unless I go to space myself. I don't believe NASA.
Are you being facetious? I am getting a beating here about flat earth.
I don't know but maybe... I am just curious. Science is based on theorizing and asking questions.
It is a wild conspiracy theory that I didn't want to entertain but... since they hide technology, history, lie about science, cause events like Maui fires, 911 etc, create division, allow invaders into the US, our health secretary dresses as a woman, our ex-1st lady "seems" to be a man, tricked us with vaxxes and on and on and on... Why is it such a stretch?
I am not being facetious. I saw that you were getting beat up and I wanted to support you. I have looked at evidence of flat earth and a lot of it makes sense. If you try to talk to anyone about it- well, you see what happens. I have no idea if the earth is flat or not, but no one else does either. Idk what happened with Neil Armstrong and his crew, but I’ve never seen a more miserable press conference. I admire that you tried to show evidence. Stand up for what you think is right even when you have to stand alone.
Air hug for you! LOL Thanks for the support. I can't be sure either but I put my training aside and considered it with an open mind. I take it with a grain of salt....
It didn't make sense to me until I saw the model and all the evil symbolism, numbers, NASA inconsistencies, and coincidences surrounding the globe model. It made me think it could be a lie so I decided to learn about flat earth.
People who have never looked at the compelling flat earth info can't understand or dispute it since they only know what they have been taught. Even the technology can be altered. They don't want to look and our programming matrix is very strong, plus there is so much deception.
People are willing to believe in aliens before flat earth. The whole thing/world is demonic and controlled by dark spiritual forces.
Stay grounded in God.
Ephesians 6:12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood [contending only with physical opponents], but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this [present] darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly (supernatural) places.
It's worth pointing out that "firmament" is not a great translation of the hebrew word here ("raqiya"), and is more a case of applying pre-existing assumptions into translation. And this isn't some kind of "liberal christianity" thing, either -- even young-earth creationist organisations don't think that it means "solid sky", for example here: https://creation.com/is-the-raqiya-firmament-a-solid-dome (that's the first hit that pops up when you search their site for "firmament").
So by all means question things and investigate it for yourself, just don't assume that translations of the bible always got it 100% right - question them too!
”The heavens declare the glory of God; And the firmament shows His handiwork.“
Psalms 19:1 NKJV
https://bible.com/bible/114/psa.19.1.NKJV
This verse was what made me look seriously into the topic of “Flat Earth” — the firmament: https://unorthodoxy.substack.com/p/lies-not-discussed-within-the-truth
There are so many ways to respond to the Flat Earth ‘belief system’ that it would take a rather long post to do so here. But let me just lay this one down: I am a former Merchant Marine Captain, who was fortunate enough to begin my career during the time when global electronic navigation had sufficient gaps in (good) coverage to require celestial, as well as other forms/elements of oceanic navigation to be used. In both celestial, as well as Great Circle navigation, Spherical Trigonometry was used - not Plane Geometry. We are all very familiar with the saying that, ‘The shortest distance between two points is a straight line.’ But, if one set out on a long trans-oceanic voyage and did not use Great Circle Sailing calculations to determine one’s waypoints along the route, one would end up with the certain knowledge that it is a ‘straight’ line is actually a curve across the surface of our planet.
During celestial navigation, we used both Marine and Air Navigation Tables derived from Spherical Trigonometry calculations. I’m confident that there are still many long-distance military and civilian pilots alive who can testify to using the same methods on certain flights in the days prior to fullest development of electronic navigation systems such as LORAN, or the advent of GPS.
Hello, Captain. I’m a former Merchant Marine. I sailed as part of the unlicensed crew and mostly as part of the Black Gang (for non-merchant marines, this term has only to do with being in the engine room elbows deep in grease and grime). On one ship, I was full-time engine room while at sea and worked the deck department during mooring. The captain permitted me, after working my shift and overtime in the engine room, to spend nights on the flying bridge learning navigation using the stars and a sextant during the cumulative 34 days we traversed the Atlantic. I found the learning much more in-depth than the blips on the screen style navigation methods which were also available. The stars are amazing out at sea! I don’t run into many Merchant Marines these days. Fair winds and following seas to you and yours. Good day, Captain.
Wonderful to hear of our shared experiences Lauri! I started in the Engine Room, but quickly realized that Deck was for me! But I loved the Engine Room, and we never under-estimated our need for, or dependence upon, the efforts of that Department! God bless!
I learned how to use a sexant, Naval Almanac, and a watch set to the radio time tick to find latitude/longitude. So fun to work a sextant! Bringing the sun or another star down to the horizon. The clockwork of the sky..
I really think this flat earth nonsense is a psyop to attempt to discredit all “conspiracy theories” and to warn against the “dangers” of thinking for yourself. Don’t fall for it.
I agree, but I’d go one small step further - I’d say it’s primarily intended to undermine the credibility of Bible-believing Christians, many of whom I’ve encountered maintain that they believe it, ‘because the Bible teaches it’…
To be clear, I thank God for the Bible (Old & New Testaments); I literally believe it to be the ultimate authority in regard to anything it touches upon, and the MOST valuable ‘thing’ in our world. It saddens me greatly, however, to see the errors and mistaken beliefs that good, well-meaning people can fall into, when they fail to ‘rightly divide’ the Word.
In my view, the ‘framework’ with which one interacts with the Bible determines, to a very large extent, one’s understanding of the profound, yet often simple, truths expressed within its bounds. I think of those ‘frameworks’ in a manner similar to eyeglass ‘lenses’, the ‘right’ prescription corrects distortions and enables one to see reality correctly both near and far. As one moves further away from that proper and correct prescription, distortions begin to be introduced and, in the far end of that scale, the individual is effectively ‘blind’ to vast amounts of truth that is all around them.
Of course, these statements are probably akin to kicking a hornets nest, as there are vast numbers of people who are so wedded to their time-honored theological perspectives that they feel anything which threatens the full body of Systematic Theology they subscribe to is roughly equivalent to ‘the unforgivable sin’ - which is extremely sad.
Don’t misunderstand me; I DO believe that a sincere Bible believer must guard against error, and the wiles of the Devil, who seeks to pervert and undermine God’s Word - and those who have placed their faith and trust in it. But, as in so many other cases today, the vast majority of people seem to take the ‘easy’ way out, choosing to take and fight for positions because, ‘whatever ‘they’ believe, I believe’, rather than seriously examining the Scriptures, relying on the Holy Spirit to guide and instruct, as the Bereans did with the Apostle Paul’s teachings. The saddest thing of all, to me, is the ‘spirit’ with which the leaders and/or adherents of various groups within Christendom attack one another. All I can say is that such behavior is very definitely not Christ-like, and the following verse seems quite appropriate:
Luke 9:55
But He turned and rebuked them, and said, “You do not know what manner of spirit you are of.
One of my long-time phrases:
"I refuse to put God in a box! He is God and He can do anything He likes."
That what I think, a psy-opt cultivated make Christians look ignorant stupid. And also to sow dissension, interminable bickering, division ... the usual smashing of the mirror tactics.
I even seen some alleged Christian Flater Earthers say if you don't believe such and such verse means such and such, then you are a heretic. And also, I've seen Humpty Dumpty made up terms like 'Biblical Cosmology' as if a serious scientific discipline could be possibly extracted, lifted out whole and intact from Scripture.
Agree. Dr. Jason Lisle, a Christian astrophysicist (biblicalscienceinstitute.com) is a wonderful resource for Christians in researching the truth about the earth.
Thank you Michelle; I’m not familiar with him or the Institute, but I will look into both.
Thanks again; may the Lord richly bless you!
A collection of links from Dr. Lisle's site on flat earth: https://biblicalscienceinstitute.com/tag/flat-earth/?order=asc
Much appreciated, I’ve already followed the links! Are you familiar with Dr. Hugh Ross, and the website Reasons to Believe?
https://reasons.org/about
I can see from the FAQ that I disagree with Ross on a few things. I believe in a young earth (no Big Bang) and global flood.
TBH Michelle, you’ve probably checked out his site further than I have; I’ve only seen him participate in discussions/debates regarding Young vs Old Earth, or speak to limited astrophysics subjects. My thoughts have been to explore further; I just haven’t gotten around to it - yet! Now, I’ll probably move it up the priority chain.
I do believe in a global flood, and would definitely disagree with anyone on that question. However, I disagree with many of my Christian Brothers and Sisters, as well as many of the Christian leaders and Bible Teachers I greatly respect, over the age of the Earth issue. I have seen and heard many proclaim that not believing in a Young Earth is heretical; that it ‘undermines the foundation of the Bible’, and various other things that basically amount to disbelief and, therefore, SIN… My heart grieves when I hear these people say such things, because I firmly believe that the Bible does not, specifically, give us the Creation age of the Earth. Very often, it seems to me that the Young Earth adherents main concern is that an Old Earth belief gives the Evolutionists cover for their claims. I understand their logic, but consider it flawed, because the Bible makes it very, very clear that God created all things; originally from ‘no-things’, by speaking them into existence - not through evolutionary processes. There is no question of that, and I would agree that anyone who does not accept that is, in fact, a heretic/false teacher - or someone who has been deceived by/fallen under the spell of such a teacher.
Again, a BIG subject, almost guaranteed to excite passionate (and often, tragically, very un-Christian) responses.
I firmly reject the contention that belief in an Old Earth = Apostacy/Hearsy/False Teaching/Cop-Out to Gain Acceptsnce from ‘the World’. BUT, it is not a salvation issue! What someone believes about Jesus Christ, as Son of God, the sacrifice for Sin, the Ressurection, and that He (and only He) is the only - and essential - way to be Born Again; The Way, The Truth, and The Life - that is the matter on which Salvation and Eternal Life rests, and only that. This doesn’t mean that nothing else matters, because the rest of the Bible revelations do matter a tremendous amount! The proper understanding and integration of the other Truths revealed in the Bible have very profound practical implications; for the individual (particularly the quality of their relationship with God), his/her family and friends, and, ultimately, for the glory of God and His Kingdom.
Again, a longer post than I expected. Thank you for all your sharing!
I've heard that name before, but haven't read/seen anything of his. I will check out your link. Thank you!
Wait till the aliens from outer space psyops gets in gear! You can see it being pre-programmed in the entertainment media already.
John 10:16 Jesus says “And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd” This could mean gentiles, aliens, angels. Yes we can’t put God in a box. All creatures are created by God and that includes aliens if they exist. It won’t change my belief in Jesus and God.
I agree with your sentiment totally. God is the Creator of all creation. However, in this passage, Jesus was referring specifically to the change in God's covenant with Israel with the coming of the Messiah. He is referring to the grafting in of the wild olive branches (Gentiles) into the native olive tree (the Israel of God) and all will be the body of Christ on earth with one Lord, the risen King.
du-du du-du dooo-du and onto the Twilight Zone where the unreal is the real. But really, all I can tell you is that I haven't ever seen the a space alien. But DeWife on the other hand claims that I am a space. And so whereas I have not, maybe she has. (Mysteries of the Universe!)
Here's McLeod. Always clear and straight up. You should not miss it.
Interview with Anthony Fatseas of WT Finance
https://alasdairmacleod.substack.com/p/interview-with-anthony-fatseas-of?utm_source=profile&utm_medium=reader2
Question: is 'Fatseas' a Space Alien pater familias ? 'Fatseas' seems a rathe 'out there' last name?
There must be something in the ether. I just finished writing a comment about the debt trap which I'll post in the morning. Haven't seen your video yet...it's on my to-do list but I suspect it's on the same subject.
Let me see ... the either? Or maybe that's the either in the either? Or the ether in the ethernet? Or either, ether ... or the either ether ore ???? I quite don't have the clue no more what with the ice wall, the dome and now the black sun under the flat disc with the hole in it. Or is the the desk or the здесь, or what with all these words all sounding hopelessly the same. Plus I am paranoid because I think that 'somebody' is trying to kill 2 billion or 5 billion or more people, turn ants in man eating robots plus turn Dunkin' Donuts into frisbee-like flying bio-weapons ... and one toss ... kha-dong you're dead !!!!
Well, the debt trap. I am more straight up on that. The debt trap is what you get when you let avaricious rampaging three to five year olds run government and the financial institutions ... and all with Monopoly Money supplied courtesy of the Parker Brothers. Somebody ends up with the Boardwalk, Park Place and all the banks and railroads and the rest of us find ourselves flat broke and living in sticky roach traps. That is the debt trap.
I do find it funny that it's okay to believe in alien species from out in the galaxy though. They don't call that a conspiracy theory. I often wonder if an intelligent species did come to the planet one time, watched the humans, shook their heads and said "We don't need to worry about them. They will destroy themselves then we can come back and clean up the mess." JK.
Well that’s useful to the so called elites. Look up project blue beam.
Just question everything.... Not long ago we were taught flat earth. The WHO logo is flat earth.
NASA lies and they push globe really hard... so why not question it?
There is a lot of Biblical evidence as well, and very old Bibles actually say flat earth and NASA's numbers about the earth are "strange"...
Why does it matter? It matters because globe earth makes us insignificant in the realm of things.
Flat earth shows that the moon and stars rotate around us so we are the center which makes earth significant to God as he made it all for us.
I really don't know but I am starting to believe the opposite of what they tell us since it is often the case. BTW masons have a different perspective and we all know astronots are masons so...
'Supposed' Freemason draws true depiction of Earth
https://www.bitchute.com/video/CrjwTWKOyIV3/
I do agree to question everything but that doesn’t necessitate that everything we think we know is wrong. A lot is, yes, but everything, no. Re flat earth, ask a military sniper, sailor or pilot.
If they are masons, they will lie so....
I would say at least half of what we've been taught is wrong about history and science especially.
The problem is, though, if you go far enough down that path you can end up thinking "anyone who tells me I'm wrong is lying to me because they are part of the conspiracy", and then your belief becomes literally unfalsifiable, and it's then no longer a genuine search for truth but just a search for more ways to justify a belief. So just, be cautious and use a consistent standard for when to believe or disbelieve people.
That is pretty extreme. I just wonder about them. If there is enough evidence, I consider it.
It is a clown world when our president can't stand trial for a crime, but can still run the country....
Stay sane!
Here are a couple related quotes...
The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in the mind at the same time and still retain the ability to function. - F. Scott Fitzgerald
CIA Director William Casey - "We'll
know our disinformation program is complete
when everything the American public believes is
false" (not sure if true but CIA does worse)
It is not a matter of what is true that counts, but a matter of what is perceived to be true. - Henry A. Kissinger
In the 19th century to the early 20th, there was a Utopian community in Estero, Florida, called Koreshan. Their model of the earth has the surface of the earth on the inside of a sphere, with the sun. and planets in the center. There are still people who believe this theory, particularly in Germany, despite the impossibility of this model.
IDK about that group, but in science and math, you can calculate things/data to be what you want it to show.
They estimate the earth is 20-400 million years old? Right....
It's all BS.
Maybe I should take the globe off the mantle and put up a computer disc in its place. But I have a real problem. I can't figure out what to use for the 'black sun'?
It cold be hidden knowledge. IDK but just entertaining the idea.
Use a piece of charcoal for the black sun... LOL
You are absolutely correct. The Intel people push this idiocy because it gives the cover.
Mariners would find this book interesting, at a minimum. I found it fascinating. The verse above, The Heavens declare...." was in mind always, while reading it. It was written for stranded sailors and downed airmen in WWII.
Finding Your Way Without Map or Compass, by Harold Gatty
https://store.doverpublications.com/products/9780486406138
Thank you. I am building a library of ‘how to’ and current history books for my grandkids and extended generations. Just in case history is erased. I ordered this. Appreciate it.
How amazing is that!? Penny would you share your list with us?!
My list consists of a Websters Dictionary from the late 90s and a copy of Back To Basics: How to Learn and Enjoy Traditional American Skills from 1981. I'd love to add more to that list.
I ordered Back to Basics! Thx.
Nice! I used it to build my own limestone patio. It was built to last. :D
I don’t have a list and I cannot post pictures here. I still have some on Kindle I need to replace with a real book.
You can do the same thing.
The Lost Ways is a great place to start. Many of the Covid fraud books, and others that record what has happened in the last four years.
Prepping, Survivalist, preserving foods, etc. gardening, saving seeds, identifying plants. Like the book mentioned above - how to read nature: Weather, water flow, sky, sources of water…. Off grid, homesteading, creating like minded communities…. How to communicate if power is down. Natural medicines!
Bartering!
There are many free pdf books available too.
I think it’s important because today’s young adults and kids don’t know, and are not being taught. I want the information in their hands if ever needed. Who knows- it may be another 2-3 generations until it is needed. But it helps me feel like I can contribute, even if I am long gone. I will write messages to them in the books too.
I don’t have a set, but I’ve always thought the Foxfire books would be of value. They can be purchased easily via Amazon (I know!) as a complete set, in sub-sets, or individually. God bless!
Look into the Tuttle Twins series. (Christian conservative teaching for kids)
You're most welcome! I felt about this book as you do - important, hard-won knowledge that we must pass along.
I just bought a few for each son and grandchild! 2 sons are pilots and in military so I hope they will enjoy this book! Thank you for posting! Thank you both for your comments and delightful knowledge share! God bless you and your families! 🦋
If the Earth were flat, then it would be daytime all over the world at the same time.
Yet, when I FaceTime my son who's stationed in Central Europe (8 hours ahead of us), it's often nighttime where he is, and vice-versa.
If the Earth were flat, this couldn't be.
Think, people.
PS: the conspiracy nutbaggery on this Substack's reaching toxic levels.
Flat Earthers never let inconvenient facts get in their way!
Nuttier things have happened and yes it could be.... but maybe not?
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." - CIA Director William Casey 1981
It is not really as nuts as I originally thought. I also didn't believe a lot of things that are true like they want to depopulate us. It was literally written in stone, but the 20ft granite GA Guidestones were struck by "lightning" and cleaned up in a day or two?
FYI, when there is distance from an object, it becomes smaller... like the sun on the other side of the flat earth. IDK for sure but NASA lies about data.
If you seriously looked at the flat earth info, you would know, but you are free to believe some masons went to the moon in a tin can and now lost the technology to go back. and spoke to the president on a landline with no delay... and JFK was killed by Oswald... and 911 was al-Qaeda terrorists and not an inside job.
Thank you Mike! It is always such a breath of fresh air when real life experience is brought to bear on these "theories". The psyops that is being imposed on America seems to affect everything!
Yes! I started in aviation in the 60’s and at best, for long range navigation we had LORAN, ADF, CONSOLAN, PLOP…but the most reliable (when we were above the clouds) was celestial navigation using a periscopic sextant.
Then came OMEGA, INS, and now GPS. Where we were once ecstatic to arrive within miles of our intended destination, now anything more than a few yards off the mark is a disappointment. Oh my, how far we’ve come!
Amen, JT! I can definitely relate to that thrill - and great satisfaction - of fixing your location with a few miles of one’s Estimated Position! This was especially true at sea, after what might be a prolonged period without favorable conditions for sights. I knew there had to be people like yourself amongst the readers here; I wish we could somehow ‘pin’ your comment to the top of the string! God bless!
Do you think earth might be flat? I think it might be flat. Why is there so much shame in questioning it? It's been drilled in our head so it is difficult for us to even consider.
I have not been to space or conducted an experiment so I must believe what I am told, but we all know we are lied to so...
Questioning is science and we have never been to space to prove it ourselves.
See my comment on this thread.
Dawn, I can certainly understand how people across time could, and did, believe the earth is flat. But I don’t believe it is for many reasons, nor do I believe the Bible teaches it - although I am aware of the verses that people use to try and support such a view/belief.
While so many in our world remain ‘blissfully ignorant’ of the evils that are so powerfully in play in our world today, it’s safe to say that virtually all C&C readers are somewhat ‘shell-shocked’ by the revelations of corruption, fraud, organized and coordinated deception, evil, and ‘wickedness in high places’ that have been brought into the open over the past four years, in particular.
We live and move in a world that is amazing, and full of blessings, in so many ways - yet it is also a world in which discerning ‘Truth’ is exceedingly difficult. And the vast number of people in our midst don’t care, are too intellectually ‘lazy’, are too burdened by pressing concerns, or are too preoccupied with other matters, to even try to grapple with the maze of information and truth-claims that pervade our lives today. It’s a perfect environment for deception, and I would say that is the dominant characteristic of our day and time.
So, I understand ‘questioning everything’ - and I agree with it, to a certain extent. And that’s the ‘rub’, isn’t it; ‘To what extent do I question everything, and how can I know what is trustworthy?’
No doubt, there are countless views/beliefs regarding that held by readers of C&C but, one of the most comforting things I have found, is that so many of us recognize, as Jeff C. does, that the Word of God is ‘…a lamp to my feet and a light to my path.’ (Psalms 119:105)
In a prior comment above, I made the statement that I sincerely regard the Bible (Old & New Testaments) as the MOST valuable ‘thing’ in this world. It is precisely for this reason that I hold that view; because it is, in regard to anything it touches upon (which happens to be everything that truly matters), the ‘Touchstone’ by which Truth vs ‘less than Truth’ (or worse) can be judged. That said, such a blessing can only be realized fully by those who are guided and instructed in it by the Holy Spirit - and that only happens (other than incidentally, should God choose), in the lives of those who have been ‘Born Again’ by the Spirit; those who have accepted and embraced the salvation and redemption God the Father made possible through God the Son (Jesus Christ), worked out within the life of the believer by God the Holy Spirit.
Apart from that being real in the individuals life, I suspect the Bible might prove to be of more harm than good. But, even when it is real in a believer’s life, there is an unavoidable process of spiritual growth and maturity that must accompany it:
“…that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give to you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him, the eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that you may know what is the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints, and what is the exceeding greatness of His power toward us who believe, according to the working of His mighty power which He worked in Christ when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places, far above all principality and power and might and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in that which is to come.” Ephesians 1:17-21
Toward that end we, as individual believers, have a role to play; we can take this seriously and apply ourselves diligently to growing in our knowledge of, love for, and trust in the God of the Bible. If that’s what we choose to commit ourselves to, we must:
“Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. But shun profane and idle babblings, for they will increase to more ungodliness.”
2 Timothy 2:15-16
And, recognizing our dependence on the guidance and instruction of the Holy Spirit, and praying for discernment and protection against error or deception, we can then:
“Rejoice always, pray without ceasing, in everything give thanks; for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you.
Do not quench the Spirit. Do not despise prophecies. Test all things; hold fast what is good. Abstain from every form of evil.”
1 Thessalonians 5:16-22
While the Word of God is a veritable treasure chest of invaluable Truth and instruction, all of that gives us more than enough constructive guidance on how we should order our affairs in this day and age.
This is way longer than I dreamed it would be at the beginning, but I’ll conclude with this final portion of Scripture:
(Be Steadfast)
“Therefore, beloved, looking forward to these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, without spot and blameless; and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation—as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.
You therefore, beloved, since you know this beforehand, beware lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the error of the wicked; but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
To Him be the glory both now and forever. Amen.”
2 Peter 3:14-18
Very true and thoughtful thank you. Our focus does not need to be the shape of the earth but on things that are good. I wouldn't even consider it if I didn't have a Godly perspective on the earth. He made the sun, moon and stars for us.
As far as the Bible being more harmful than good, it really depends on one's heart. God knows our hearts and I don't doubt God, only man.
IDK if the earth is a globe or flat since I have never been to space, and I doubt any astronauts have either. I have seen enough NASA lies and contrary evidence to consider it might be a big lie... kinda like big covid lie.
I understand Dawn, and I definitely agree that ‘the heart’ is the key issue:
“…For the LORD does not see as man sees; for man looks at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart.”
1 Samuel 16:7b
In fact, that is the crux of the Gospel; we are born in ‘sin’ - a heart that will naturally seek its own will above God’s; that will ultimately rebel against God - and that will ultimately lead us to destruction and eternal separation from God, unless we receive ‘new hearts’ through being ‘born again’ by the Spirit of God. And, according to the New Testament, that comes by faith in the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, trusting Him as our Redeeming Savior.
Along with that new heart, we receive the Holy Spirit, to guide and instruct us in all things - including the discernment to recognize deceptions that we would have no hope of seeing otherwise. That particular gift is of great importance today, and it will only become more important as we move forward. God bless!
Beautifully said. God will reveal the mysteries and questions. For now, I can speculate. LOL
John 16:12-13 AMP
12 “I have many more things to say to you, but you cannot bear [to hear] them now. 13 But when He, the Spirit of Truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth [full and complete truth]. For He will not speak on His own initiative, but He will speak whatever He hears [from the Father—the message regarding the Son], and He will disclose to you what is to come [in the future].
Dr. Jason Lisle is a Christian astrophysicist with a very helpful website. Here is his collection of information refuting flat earth: https://biblicalscienceinstitute.com/tag/flat-earth/?order=asc
Thanks a lot but it didn't confirm. Check out my Bible verses and let me know what you think.
I 100% believe the Bible, and no man. I hope it is a globe but....
The Bible implies flat earth, but James said it implies globe. He notes there are pics from space, but those can be fake CGI. 4 min https://www.bitchute.com/video/3fcFd4IzuxBO/
From the site 1st paragraph...
""What do a round Earth, natural selection, and dinosaurs have in common? They are all things that are demonstrably true and biblical that some professing Christians deny. All of these things are mentioned or implied in Scripture.""
I can agree with natural selection, but the rest is not proved. The dinosaurs could be faked just like the Neanderthal and Cro-Magnon man. The earth is not billions of years old either like they say as fact. The Bible speaks of a dragon-like leviathan in Job 41, but not about all the dinos they show us and none of them breath fire like the leviathan. Why don't they show us all the giant bones discovered? Giants were real.
The scripture Jason noted for globe is Job 26:7,10 .... What part of this implies globe earth?
""He spreads out the northern skies over empty space; he suspends the earth over nothing.
8 He wraps up the waters in his clouds, yet the clouds do not burst under their weight.
9 He covers the face of the full moon, spreading his clouds over it.
10 He marks out the horizon on the face of the waters for a boundary between light and darkness.""
A couple verses I found implies flat earth IMHO.
Isaiah 40:22
It is He who sits above the circle of the earth, ((not a sphere))
And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers;
[It is He] who stretches out the heavens like a veil
And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in. ((tent is like a dome))
Proverbs 8:27
“When He established the heavens, I [Wisdom] was there;
When He drew a circle upon the face of the deep ((a circle is flat))
Psalm 104:5
He established the earth on its foundations, ((foundations are flat when building))
So that it will not be moved forever and ever. ((so how fast do they say we rotate/orbit?))
Revelation 1:7
7 Behold, He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him; and all the tribes (nations) of the earth will mourn over Him [realizing their sin and guilt, and anticipating the coming wrath]. [a]So it is to be. Amen. ((I guess on a globe some might see Him 12 hours late))
Job 38:8, 14 ... God speaking to Job
8 “Or who enclosed the sea with doors (((with a wall, not around a globe))
When it burst forth and went out of the womb;
14 “The earth is changed like clay into which a seal is pressed; ((you press a seal flat))
Ezekiel 1:26 1599 Geneva Bible
Now above the ·dome [vault; expanse; or platform] there was something that looked like a throne. It looked like ·a sapphire gem [or lapis lazuli]. And on the throne high above was a ·shape [form; figure] like a ·human [man].
Amos 9:6
It is He who builds His upper chambers in the heavens
And has established His vaulted dome (the firmament of heaven) over the earth,
He who calls to the waters of the sea
And pours them out on the face of the earth—
The Lord is His name.
Dawn, you would enjoy this series:
https://chemtrails.substack.com/p/the-dinosaur-hoax-the-royal-society
Thanks I will read it. I already liked the first paragraph. LOL
In the NASB translation I use (1995), Job 26:10 says "He has inscribed a circle on the surface of the waters At the boundary of light and darkness." This is worded a little differently that how it is translated in your comment. I really like the NASB translation because it is a word for word translation, rather than thought for thought. If you use the "Literal Word" app, you can see the exact translation of each word from the Hebrew or Greek. This verse, Isaiah 40:22, and Proverbs 8:27 all mention a circle. The prevailing thinking when these were written was that the earth was flat. But keep in mind that when viewed from above (as suggested in Isaiah 40:22), a sphere appears as a circle.
For Psalm 104:5, the NASB (again, a word for word translation) renders it "He established the earth upon its foundations, So that it will not totter forever and ever." The Hebrew word translated as "totter" means (1) to totter, shake, slip; (2) to be shaken, be moved, be overthrown; (3) to dislodge, let fall, drop; (4) to be greatly shaken. To me, this doesn't preclude the earth's rotation or orbit around the sun. This implies to me that the earth shall not be removed from it's orbit...
Job 38:14 (NASB 1995) "It is changed like clay under the seal; And they stand forth like a garment." The Hebrew word translated "changed" means to turn, turn about, turn over, turn around. Seals at that time were cylindrical in shape (sometimes as a ring, which we read elsewhere in the Bible). See the photos at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cylinder_seal. My John MacArthur commentary says this:
"Documents written on clay tablets were signed using personal engraved seals upon which was written the bearer's name. The Hebrew for "changed" is "turned." It conveys the idea that the earth is turned or rotated like a cylindrical seal rolled over the soft clay. Such rolling cylinder seals were found in Babylon. This speaks of the earth, rotating on its axis, an amazing statement that only God could reveal in ancient days. The dawn rolls across the earth as it rotates."
That is also my observation, that the dawn rolls across the earth as it rotates." If we were a flat earth, we would all have day and night at the same time. We wouldn't have sunrise and sunset occurring in sequence as you move across the surface of the earth. I see in this article (https://biblicalscienceinstitute.com/apologetics/is-the-earth-really-round/) that proponents of flat earth do have an explanation for this phenomenon, but Dr. Lisle goes on to explain mathematically that sunrise and sunset are not actually possible with the the modern flat earth model (north pole at center, Antarctica around edge of circle).
As for Ezekiel 1:26 and Amos 9:6 which mention "the dome," my thought is just that it aligns with the prevailing assumption of a flat earth at that time.
I though I sent this but I don't see it in the comments. I copied it before I replied so here it is again...
Thank you for your thoughful in depth response. God wants us to study and there is always room to learn. The only reason I have not let this particular conspiracy go is because it makes us just another planet, and another BIG way to keep people from God. We are much more to God than that and were created a little lower than the angels. Jesus became like us to save us, not angels, only us.
I use several translations to get an in depth understanding when deep diving into scripture. Using one may not be sufficient and the literal word app is based on the NASB only but seems like a great version.
Yes the current view was flat earth, but wasn't it written divinely? Totter is definitely open to interpretation but it could mean moved or dislodged from its place. If the earth moved or tottered, we would feel it, and I don't feel us rotating or sideways on an axis. Gravity is also an issue of scientism. Weight causes things to fall. A helium balloon floats as it is lighter than air and gravity does not hold it down. They make simple things complicated so we don't really understand but accept it since we don't.
They say, "the Earth spinning on its axis, the planet is also speeding at about 66,600 miles per hour"
These numbers are repeated when examined. https://www.bitchute.com/video/8Yqtb23MLqVx/
You believe it? Did God do that? Seriously watch the 2 min video and let me know what you think.
I didn't question globe earth in a day. I kept seeing it and compelled to finally look. They push it as hard as a covid jab, and if everyone questioned it, they would lose their grip on us in everything.
Job 38:14 "It is changed like clay under the seal; And they stand forth like a garment."
God compares the earth to clay seal that was pressed, not before it was pressed. Seals make bumps and ridges and they stand out like beautiful (garment) mountains do. Seals were also commonly circular which the flat earth is possibly round and not spherical. Changed means to me how God molded the earth like clay or wax in creating it, and it is no longer what it was, not continually changing or rotating. Wouldn't God say that plainly if it were?
((That is also my observation, that the dawn rolls across the earth as it rotates." If we were a flat earth, we would all have day and night at the same time.)) I picture the dawn as you roll dough. The roller rolls across the dough. In the flat earth model, the sun and moon are spherical and the roll over the the plane earth. Doesn't light fade with distance? When the sun "rolls" around the circle, the distance causes it's light to fade like things get smaller with distance. The sun and moon do change their patterns for seasons.
14 sec video ex.... https://www.bitchute.com/video/a1AUhc0lLalc/
Ezekiel 1:26 and Amos verses about the dome... How does it align with a flat earth belief at that time? Where would they get the idea or write it if it was not divine by God? It does not matter what they believe at the time, like when Revelation was written. John didn't know but described it in words.
I don't feel like it makes us just another planet at all! God has specially fined-tuned our planet to allow life. We are just the right distance from the sun, for one example. Any farther away and we'd freeze, any closer, and we'd burn up. A great resource for learning about the MANY ways God has fine-tuned earth for life (and the probably against all those things coming together by chance) is Stephen Meyer (stephenmeyer.org). He did a great teaching series for Focus on the Family's "The Truth Project/TrueU" called "Does God Exist?" with the subtitle "building the scientific case." Some of it is pretty technical, aimed at college-age and above, but it is excellent at helping you understand just how UNLIKELY life on our planet is, yet here we are. It is very special indeed. When I watched the series, years ago, it was available on Amazon Prime Video. It is out there on DVD as well. I was able to pick up a used copy of it on DVD. Maybe your library would have it?
The Literal Word app used to just be NASB, but now you can choose from NASB, ESV, LSB, and KJV from the settings menu. It does not include NIV or NLT, as those are thought-for-thought translations, not word-for-word. I agree that comparing different translations can be very helpful in understanding, but I would warn against Eugene Peterson's "The Message." It is not a translation. It is a paraphrase, and a bad one at that. There's another paraphrase out there I'd warn against, but I can't remember the name of it or the author...
Gravity. Gravity is a force that pulls us downward, toward the center of the approximately spherical earth. The reason that helium balloon floats is that the upward buoyant force (which is in the opposite direction as the gravitational force, and is caused by the helium being lighter than air just as you mentioned) is so much greater than the gravitational force pulling it down (i.e., its weight, because its mass is so light).
So the earth is speeding around in its orbit at a speed of 29.78 kilometers per second, or 66,620 mph. You don't feel this, because you are speeding around at the same speed. You would only notice the movement if it slowed down or sped up, much like how your stomach feels in an elevator. Your stomach tries to stay in the same position it was, until it is dragged along by the rest of your body. You feel the change, but once all of you is moving at the same speed of the elevator, you don't notice it again until it slows down again. To understand what is going on, it helps to understand a physics principle called "frames of reference." Here is a great short educational video from Khan Academy explaining frames of reference: https://youtu.be/3yaZ7lkQPUQ. You also don't notice the earth spinning for the same reason; you are going right along with it at the same speed.
Job 38:14, perhaps the comparison of the earth to clay describes how God shaped all the mountains, hills, valleys, oceans initially, and reshaped it during the Great Flood of Noah's day, and will again after the millennial kingdom when He creates the new heaven and new earth?
In that video of the modern flat earth model, it appears to me it would always be dark in Antarctica, which isn't the case.... The tilt of the earth is what causes our seasons. We have winter when we are in the part of earth's orbit where we are tilted away from the sun, and we have summer when we are in the part of the orbit where we are tilted toward the sun.
Keep in mind that Galileo, Johannes Kepler, Copernicus, and Isaac Newton were all men of God who studied the heavens to glorify God.
"Gravity explains the motions of the planets, but it cannot explain who sets the planets in motion." --Isaac Newton
"Atheism is so senseless. When I look at the solar system, I see the earth at the right distance from the sun to receive the proper amounts of heat and light. This did not happen by chance." --Isaac Newton
"In the absence of any other proof, the thumb alone would convince me of God's existence." --Isaac Newton
"This most beautiful system of the sun, planets and comets, could only proceed from the counsel and dominion of an intelligent and powerful Being." --Isaac Newton
"The laws of nature are written by the hand of God in the language of mathematics." --Galileo Galilei
"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with senses, reason, and intellect has intended us to forego their use." --Galileo Galilei
"Science is the process of thinking God's thoughts after Him." --Johannes Kepler
"The wisdom of the Lord is infinite as are also His glory and His power. Ye heavens, sing His praises; sun, moon, and planets, glorify Him in your ineffable language! Praise Him, celestial harmonies, and all ye who can comprehend them! And thou, my soul, praise thy Creator! It is by Him and in Him that all exist." --Johannes Kepler
"I had the intention of becoming a theologian...but now I see how God is, by my endeavors, also glorified in astronomy, for 'the heavens declare the glory of God.' " --Johannes Kepler
"To know the mighty works of God, to comprehend His wisdom and majesty and power; to appreciate, in degree, the wonderful workings of His laws, surely all this must be a pleasing and acceptable mode of worship to the Most High, to whom ignorance cannot be more grateful than knowledge." --Nicolaus Copernicus
I completely understand questioning everything. Especially after the last 4 years of seeing the lies so blatantly. I now believe they have been lying to us for much longer than that, i.e., 9/11, the Kennedy assassination, etc. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if they did fake the moon landing. However, I 100% believe the earth is round. Just because many things have been lies doesn't mean everything is. ♥️
Thanks for the discussion. Maybe I will convince you. BTW I am getting a NASB Bible and the app too! I can't stand The Message. My mother thought it was a good idea and got me a beautiful one I opened once.
The reason I am leaning toward flat earth is because they have their symbolism all over it and knowing sun worship is a pagan belief, they make it the center of our system. That is the reason I started doubting. I encourage you to question it and watch the links then please let me know what you think. Most people wouldn't even look, but if it is not of God, wouldn't you want to know?
I didn't think it possible myself, I just accepted what I was taught.... until I investigated. If you were taught flat earth from birth, you wouldn't believe it was round. I think it might be flat just based on NASA lies and the Bible. I could argue for both because I have studied a little flat earth, but someone who has not, cannot argue since they have not learned it.
Before I dive into your thoughtful response, here is the Biblical creation of sun and moon...
Gen 1 - vs. 1 God created the heavens and the earth at the same time. He said "light" and it was so, separating the from darkness...night and day... vs. 6,7 There was water everywhere until He created a "vault" (dome?) to separate the water from water. He separated the water under the vault from the water above it. (He is saying there is water under and above the vault. Therefore, if we went outside/above our vault, we would be in water. In the flat earth there is water above our "dome") He called the vault "sky." Def. Vault - Architectural term for an arched form used to provide a space with a ceiling or roof... It seems like a dome to me.
When you see this rocket hit the vault, it looks like it hits water. https://www.bitchute.com/video/SgGfTrj6QLHe/
vs. 15 "and let them be lights in the vaultnof the sky to give light on the earth.” (They are close IN THE VAULT, and not 93 million miles away.)
16 "God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. 17 God set them in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth, " (The moon has it's own light not a reflection as told.)
Response: We don't feel that we are just another planet, but to others, they trust the science and not God who created it. We are perfectly the right distance from the sun for life to exist as God intended which is why it makes more sense that our sun is in our vault and not 93 mil mi away in space.
Helium is lighter than air and rises and nothing to do with gravity. It's made up scientism. If gravity were real we would not be flying in planes. Force, not gravity keeps us on the ground and allows planes to fly.
Job 38:14 is figuratively how God shaped the earth and mountains, but my point was how the earth is likely flat. God pressed the earth and it would not be a good metaphor if the earth was a ball.
Khan Academy is indoctinating and used to teach in public schools. It has its uses.
So when flying, do the pilots subtract the speed of the earth or add to it when flying to a destination? If the earth is moving and they are traveling the same direction then wouldn't they get there faster? Or the opposite direction and get there never?
I clocked a plane's speed when I was inside at over 300 MPH. I did not feel it so I see your point about not feeling the earth, but 300 MPH and 66,660 MPH is waaay different. A lot of 6's too...
Those philosphers theorized and were not men of God. They were deceivers and directed our eyes away from God and pointed people to scientism theories instead. Newton invented gravity in 1666 and he believed in a god, just not ours. Galileo was a sun worshipper and supported heliocentrism which is paganism. The sun is not the center of our galaxy. We are the center as God made it and the sun is in our vault and local. That is flat earth belief. Have you noticed our holidays have pagan roots? Have you thought about why the medical logo is a staff and 2 snakes? Even oreo cookies have pagan symbols on them. No joke. I think it is the leviathan or knights templar symbol.
John 5:19 says, "the whole world lies in the power of the evil one."
3 min about pagan heliocentrism - https://www.bitchute.com/video/27jnswOpLC1g/
99% of the earth was in daylight? How on a globe? 4 min- https://www.bitchute.com/video/FFhXFRHjIPH1/
Seasons on flat earth explained 7 min- https://www.bitchute.com/video/Uf8igCwqLLNO/
HELIOCENTRISM IS KABBALISTIC SCIENTISM PAGAN SUN WORSHIP - I haven't watched it but I liked the first 5 min and going to finish it... 1:40 min
https://www.bitchute.com/video/5opEIGKduu5H/
DID WE GO TO THE MOON OR DID OUR GOV LIE TO US - 6 min
https://www.bitchute.com/video/elI8Ddj8POc/
NASA'S RELATIONSHIP WITH FREE MASONRY IS IN THE NUMBERS 🐍 - 2 min.
https://www.bitchute.com/video/8Yqtb23MLqVx/
We have not left our vault. They sure get a lot of money for going nowhere. Astronaut Don Petite said we can't go back to the moon because they lost the technology. In 1969, Pres Nixon talked to the men on the moon with no time delay (which is faster than the speed of light) through the van allen belt and 250,000 miles... and traveled in a thing that looked less stable than a tin can. No way.
Hi Dawn, I hope you are doing well. This is a long video (4 hrs, 12 min), but it addresses many of the questions you had about the shape of the earth. You can also find it on Justin Peters podcast, Didache’, episode 119. Justin Peters is a trustworthy man of God who is Biblically sound. God bless. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdI3mtHIyoA
Oh my goodness.... I just had this long reply typed out to you, and then accidentally closed it while shuffling other pages to include links!!! I am so mad at myself!!! It will take me some time to recreate it, and it's already midnight.... But I will!
Ok i look forward to the reply...
That happened to me but I happened to copy it while on the computer and saved the reply. Weird
I wasn't as smart as you! And I should have taken your warning and done the same!
Thank you!!! Flat earthers need to read this. My dad a pilot has always said the same as you.
It amuses me that the Flat Earther maps always show a circular map with the 'ice wall' running the entire circumference. Regarding this, sail vessels were going everywhere for the last 500 to 600 years at least and guess what? No reports of ever running into The Ice Wall.
Also, and something I'd like to know. This being it is my understanding is that the effective seeing distance to the horizon line is around fifty to sixty miles after which an object (vessel) begins to disappear over the horizon line. Is this distance correct figure? And with the superstructure being higher off the water line, the distance might well be extended some (a reason why lighthouses are built tall so as to extend the reach of the beacon.
I imagine Flat Earthers also don't believe in the space station and think that the photographic imagery of the globe earth is all a conjuring performed by Satanic Beings.
Well, don't crash through the ice wall. One breach might empty all the water out. And be careful to not hit your head on The Dome, otherwise you might hear some mighty peculiar things coming out of your mouth..
It’s definitely not the hill I’m going to die on, but there so no shame in asking questions about our Earth. How dark is the other side of the globe when we have both sun and moon over North America? How was the North Star reliable for navigation if we are spinning 1000 miles an hour and flying through space at 66,000 mph? Do pilots keep nosing down in flight to maintain correct altitude over the curve? Inquiring minds and all….
I appreciate that you think that these are serious questions, but they are not so much so ... at least, not so in any revolutionary sense. I won't waste my time here except to say:
1) Yes, the flight of an airplane does have to conform to the earth curvature. Due to scale, the adjustment is not noticeable. And so yes, the plane does have to maintain altitude over distance relative to curvature.
2) As pointed out yesterday by a ship's captain, vessels used spherical trigonometry for navigational purposes, and not plane geometry. And I figure a ship's captain with all his responsibilities must know his trade, or else not be a captain for long.
DeWife suggests you read Falling Flat by Danny M. Faulkner. And I trust the DeWife on this as she is no intellectual lightweight.
I appreciate you addressing my thoughts and questions. Usually people just name call and dismiss such wondering, just as I was name called and dismissed for my plandemic wondering.
Hi Nancy ... and I truly appreciate your reply. And yes, name calling and such is usually not too helpful. And yet discernment is incumbent upon us just as being a necessary tool of our survival and general well-being. That is, we should not desire to follow the fool to perdition, nor permit ourselves to be deceived by the errant learned, nor by the wicked seeking only their own gain, their own selfish self-aggrandisement. And by the way, the lines of demarcation are not always so crystal clear as we would like.
DeWife recently went through a long thing on Flat Earth with a longstanding acquiescence of hers. I initially though it a futile exercise, a sort of down the rabbit's hole and around the Looking Glass mission with hooka smoking caterpillars along the way. Actually, DeWife learned a great deal along the way. And I vicariously learned a thing or two as well. And so, I am glad not have tried to squash the thing.
Here's another plane thing. Say you are a passenger on a plane which is going 500 miles an hour at 35,000 feet at cruising speed. You get up from your seat. You walk forward towards the cockpit and then walk back towards the tail and your seat. Walking forward and your body is moving faster than the plane is relative to the ground. On the way back to your seat and walking towards the tail of the plane your body is actually moving slower then the plane relative to the ground. Do you ever notice this? Impossible because of scale. Your speed up and down the aisle relative to the airplane's speed is so infinitesimal a difference as to be undeclinable. And yet it is there, and it could be mathematically expressed by a simple math equation. But why would one wish to bother.
As to planes and cars, we can feel acceleration and deceleration. And we can also feel changes in angular momentum. But at cruising speed, you might as well be at home sitting in an easy chair and watching images flash by on the TV set. Whether on a plane or car it is the same. And the earth movement is very much the same. Simply stated the earth is like a really huge big moving plane or car. There is one huge difference. Since the earth's movements are constant, there is never any acceleration or deacceleration, nor is there any change in angular momentum.
I could say more, particular about methods good and bad of argumentation which are tells either to the good or bad. But instead, I will proffer and one opinion and one observation. My opinion is, and by means and construction, this Flat Earth stuff has the appearance of being a psy-opt deliberately designed to keep people at each other's throats as yet one more detraction from what is really going on. My observation is (in part) that the psy-opt has the effect of making Christians and Christianity look stupid, a subtle way of tearing down God. And also, there is your observation as to inducing name calling and dismissal. Also, there are similarities as to the Plandemic facilitation.
Again, nice to hear back from you. And with our best to you, both DeWife and Moi-Meme.
I would not call myself a flat earther, but do entertain the idea. I don't really care but I don't believe NASA.
There are reports and pics of the ice wall, and why are we not allowed to go to Antarctica? Suspect...
Distance makes an object become smaller but with a strong telescopic lens you can zoom into something that can't be seen. It looks like the sun is going down but it is further away... zoom in on setting sun... 30 seconds - https://www.bitchute.com/video/mJkizmk69MnN/
No to aliens... they are demons
No space station... We went to the moon in a tin can and now lost the tech to go back, talked to the pres on a landline with no delay from the moon??? Do you believe that and those fake pics/video from the moon? The shadows don't line up, the tracks are not there or dust disturbed from landing.
https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fi.dailymail.co.uk%2Fi%2Fpix%2F2017%2F04%2F27%2F11%2F3FA6456400000578-4451120-image-a-45_1493288793295.jpg&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=d53a2268265b30592ed473f34a7c0e257aee3dda5782b4a25c2a636faafeb7b1&ipo=images
Because there are massive inconsistencies, anomalies in one thing does not mean that the another thing of a related type is not true. Whatever the case or cases may be.
And because most things in this world from 'on high' are mostly lies does not mean everything is a lie. And in point of fact, habitual liars like to blend lies and truth together precisely because it furthers their lie or lies.
And in cases where 'things don't add up', one does not always have to 'take a side' or come to determination until the final results are in beyond a reasonable question of doubt. For example, I don't know if space aliens exist or not. I can only tell you that to the best of my knowledge, I never saw one. And I don't know personally a single person who has ever claimed to have seen a space alien. However, and no matter how doubtful, just because I never saw a space alien in and of itself does not mean they don't exist. What I am implying here really has nothing to do with space aliens per se. It is more a caution to care in how one thinks, and in how one comes to conclusions. And by the way, jumping the shark with too much hasty enthusiasm is most definitely not a recommended methodology.
Nope. I am just speculating and keeping an open mind. I have, however, seen a lot of the flat earth truths that are very convincing and how NASA makes thing satanic.
I don't know for sure and won't unless I go to space myself. I don't believe NASA.
The moon landing seems pretty fake.
5 min video https://www.bitchute.com/video/At5UobY5wpKf/
Fascinating. Thank you for sharing. Would love to hear more. In case you write a stack etc
Thank you!
REAL SCIENCE
'Supposed' Freemason draws true depiction of Earth
https://www.bitchute.com/video/CrjwTWKOyIV3/
Wow! Thank you for posting this. My life changed the day someone asked me ‘ what if everything you were ever told was a lie?’ Question everything
Are you being facetious? I am getting a beating here about flat earth.
I don't know but maybe... I am just curious. Science is based on theorizing and asking questions.
It is a wild conspiracy theory that I didn't want to entertain but... since they hide technology, history, lie about science, cause events like Maui fires, 911 etc, create division, allow invaders into the US, our health secretary dresses as a woman, our ex-1st lady "seems" to be a man, tricked us with vaxxes and on and on and on... Why is it such a stretch?
I am not being facetious. I saw that you were getting beat up and I wanted to support you. I have looked at evidence of flat earth and a lot of it makes sense. If you try to talk to anyone about it- well, you see what happens. I have no idea if the earth is flat or not, but no one else does either. Idk what happened with Neil Armstrong and his crew, but I’ve never seen a more miserable press conference. I admire that you tried to show evidence. Stand up for what you think is right even when you have to stand alone.
Air hug for you! LOL Thanks for the support. I can't be sure either but I put my training aside and considered it with an open mind. I take it with a grain of salt....
It didn't make sense to me until I saw the model and all the evil symbolism, numbers, NASA inconsistencies, and coincidences surrounding the globe model. It made me think it could be a lie so I decided to learn about flat earth.
People who have never looked at the compelling flat earth info can't understand or dispute it since they only know what they have been taught. Even the technology can be altered. They don't want to look and our programming matrix is very strong, plus there is so much deception.
People are willing to believe in aliens before flat earth. The whole thing/world is demonic and controlled by dark spiritual forces.
Stay grounded in God.
Ephesians 6:12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood [contending only with physical opponents], but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this [present] darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly (supernatural) places.
It's worth pointing out that "firmament" is not a great translation of the hebrew word here ("raqiya"), and is more a case of applying pre-existing assumptions into translation. And this isn't some kind of "liberal christianity" thing, either -- even young-earth creationist organisations don't think that it means "solid sky", for example here: https://creation.com/is-the-raqiya-firmament-a-solid-dome (that's the first hit that pops up when you search their site for "firmament").
So by all means question things and investigate it for yourself, just don't assume that translations of the bible always got it 100% right - question them too!
Amen. We had the most beautiful sunset last night. God paints a breathtaking picture.
In the sky today!
Amen! Love this Ray Comfort 10 min video about eclipses and how he incorporates it into his street evangelism - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQ3PzcBDEFs