That's an odd judgement for you to make. I've never been RC. Was it the Bible verse you didn't like or was it what I said about historic church doctrine? The modern church in America today is, by and large, spiritually impoverished and of no consequence to American society. She is salt that has lost her flavor. To a large extent, this is…
That's an odd judgement for you to make. I've never been RC. Was it the Bible verse you didn't like or was it what I said about historic church doctrine? The modern church in America today is, by and large, spiritually impoverished and of no consequence to American society. She is salt that has lost her flavor. To a large extent, this is the result of the church abandoning the great reformation creeds that the Holy Spirit brought forth in the church over the centuries. It's time for a new reformation and revival.
(Actually, every post of yours just above & in today’s threads have been stimulating & edifying & as usual have articulated well the crux of the matters at hand.) As for Faith, I was a lost lamb til late in life, but learned the Bible, church history and to love the doctrines, creeds, confessions worship, faith and practice handed down through the Reformed church — Sadly, it’s hard to find one that hasn’t been remodeled, to some degree, substituting a banal and insipid pottage for the depth and beauty of her inheritance. URC is close, but somehow, it has a weak grasp of the Holy Spirit, perhaps from far too much ivory tower navel gazing (I really don’t give a rip about 2 kingdom theology disputes) and the congregation seems to be far too insular.
Yet, the profound and gorgeous hymns are there (in hymnals… what a concept!) and all the rest is too —Psalms, Gospels & Epistles every week in depth, plus the glorious Heidelberg Catechism(!); The Law & The Gospel of Grace & the Solas in spades. Machen may be turning in his grave or maybe he’s just getting comfy. I waver.
Thanks! I had the exact same reaction to a reformed congregation I was attending: "URC is close, but somehow, it has a weak grasp of the Holy Spirit, perhaps from far too much ivory tower navel gazing (I really don’t give a rip about 2 kingdom theology disputes) and the congregation seems to be far too insular." I found their weak grasp of the Holy Spirit to be very curious. I pointed this out to them in Bible study when I did a review of a Reformed scholar's work. The reaction of the elders was surprise at my insight as if they had never seen this before. You and Daverkb are the only two I have found here who have similar outlooks on today's church. It's a pleasure to have a bit of company. When people start posting about the "end times", I just cannot resist. I have to jump in and say something to try to bring a little Biblical sanity to the subject. I don't think I'm too well received...lol.
…writing a response to your great and most welcome reply (in my phone notes). But it’s getting longer and longer! About Machen & Darby & Scofield & how disp’ism infiltrated the churches & Isr & what’s being made of this ME thing & how & which end-time/Isr peeps have massive followings since & 🤔🧐🤨🤔.
Ah well… Many thanks to you and to Him for you (and daverkb, too) and Blessings(!) this beautiful Sabbath!
Getting bogged down in checking;my facts & too many labyrinthIne (but interesting) trails. Sorry! Perhaps a trickle of thoughts are better. One great thing was revisiting what I call the Machen book: “Fighting The Good Fight” by D.G. Hart & John Muether. It’s a fascinating & rich account of what happened in the Presp Ch in the 20s & especially the 30s. (if you like that sort of thing — LOL) Lookimg to recall how Darby & Scofffield’s disp. theol. infiltrated the church. I know it snuck in via an org offering Sunday school classes In reformed (& many other) churches including the young OPC (Machen’s child) & it was even taught by some OPC pastors. starting about then. The laity, mostly, assimilated it big time. Insidious, like a virus and it smells of masonic miscjief. Can’t find where I learned about the Sun. school classes...will keep looking, There are bits about Machen’s concern when he realized the extent of it — I can copy from the book & send tomorrow, if you’d like. Not many had noticed — there were so many fierce doctrinal & control battles going on at the time...Will also grab & send some excerpt of my ADD ramble...
Dropped this ball, Phil. So Sorry! But, whilst culling the 400 odd open windows on my phone ( ! ! Yep. ADD ! ) I found this conv.
— Always delighted to find a fellow based Christian (especially in these times, when the seemingly relatively innocuous disp end-times twists have taken a very sinister turn — responsible for enabling so much deaths & destruction. But a lie responsible also for compromising these Christians, duped into immoral war-mongering; into forgetting First Things.
It greatly saddens me. The chasm is so very wide now. The very nature of salvation has been twisted: saved from the tribulation. This is not Faith and Repentence. It’s another Gospel altogether. My sweet pre-M friends are deeply ensnared in the enemy’s deception and daily feed themselves on its reinforcing sermons & reports — listening to their “prophesy updates” and raptly following Amir Tsarfati’s (& others) reports from Israel. The State of Iz has been anointed, their every egregious policy & military action sanctified. And they are kept from knowing or seeing what’s really happened & is happening — or the results & moral implications of their enabling of much of it.
Phil, you made mention of the church "becoming nothing more than a gushy feel good love service" I thought you were talking about your own church, bc that's not what I experience at mine. AND if I did, it would not be the ONLY thing experienced there. My personal relationship with Jesus, God the Father, and His Holy Spirit, take on many more aspects than what you're eluding to in your post. I wasn't making a judgement on you, merely a suggestion that now appears you didn't need.
Trust me, I can always use good advice. It's difficult to caveat everything when writing a short comment but I was just trying to comment on the general condition of the American church today. But God always has His remnant even if it looks dire.
That's an odd judgement for you to make. I've never been RC. Was it the Bible verse you didn't like or was it what I said about historic church doctrine? The modern church in America today is, by and large, spiritually impoverished and of no consequence to American society. She is salt that has lost her flavor. To a large extent, this is the result of the church abandoning the great reformation creeds that the Holy Spirit brought forth in the church over the centuries. It's time for a new reformation and revival.
Amen! In His Sovereign will may He make it so!
(Actually, every post of yours just above & in today’s threads have been stimulating & edifying & as usual have articulated well the crux of the matters at hand.) As for Faith, I was a lost lamb til late in life, but learned the Bible, church history and to love the doctrines, creeds, confessions worship, faith and practice handed down through the Reformed church — Sadly, it’s hard to find one that hasn’t been remodeled, to some degree, substituting a banal and insipid pottage for the depth and beauty of her inheritance. URC is close, but somehow, it has a weak grasp of the Holy Spirit, perhaps from far too much ivory tower navel gazing (I really don’t give a rip about 2 kingdom theology disputes) and the congregation seems to be far too insular.
Yet, the profound and gorgeous hymns are there (in hymnals… what a concept!) and all the rest is too —Psalms, Gospels & Epistles every week in depth, plus the glorious Heidelberg Catechism(!); The Law & The Gospel of Grace & the Solas in spades. Machen may be turning in his grave or maybe he’s just getting comfy. I waver.
Thanks for your posts and for letting me share.
Godspeed, brother!
🙏🏽👆🏼✝️🕊💌
Thanks! I had the exact same reaction to a reformed congregation I was attending: "URC is close, but somehow, it has a weak grasp of the Holy Spirit, perhaps from far too much ivory tower navel gazing (I really don’t give a rip about 2 kingdom theology disputes) and the congregation seems to be far too insular." I found their weak grasp of the Holy Spirit to be very curious. I pointed this out to them in Bible study when I did a review of a Reformed scholar's work. The reaction of the elders was surprise at my insight as if they had never seen this before. You and Daverkb are the only two I have found here who have similar outlooks on today's church. It's a pleasure to have a bit of company. When people start posting about the "end times", I just cannot resist. I have to jump in and say something to try to bring a little Biblical sanity to the subject. I don't think I'm too well received...lol.
…writing a response to your great and most welcome reply (in my phone notes). But it’s getting longer and longer! About Machen & Darby & Scofield & how disp’ism infiltrated the churches & Isr & what’s being made of this ME thing & how & which end-time/Isr peeps have massive followings since & 🤔🧐🤨🤔.
Ah well… Many thanks to you and to Him for you (and daverkb, too) and Blessings(!) this beautiful Sabbath!
👆🏼✝️🕊🙏🏽👀💌
LOL...don't be shy. Let her rip. Always good to get something off ones chest so to speak.
Hah!
Well…I may have to send it unfinished…we’ll see if you still want the rest. It’s pretty much of a mishmosh of adjoining thoughts. (Symptom of ADD?)
As a fellow sufferer of ADD, I sympathize. I didn't even know about that until I was over 50.
*Sigh* Me neither. The problem is—everything does connect! Darn complicated and dense, this tapestry.
Getting bogged down in checking;my facts & too many labyrinthIne (but interesting) trails. Sorry! Perhaps a trickle of thoughts are better. One great thing was revisiting what I call the Machen book: “Fighting The Good Fight” by D.G. Hart & John Muether. It’s a fascinating & rich account of what happened in the Presp Ch in the 20s & especially the 30s. (if you like that sort of thing — LOL) Lookimg to recall how Darby & Scofffield’s disp. theol. infiltrated the church. I know it snuck in via an org offering Sunday school classes In reformed (& many other) churches including the young OPC (Machen’s child) & it was even taught by some OPC pastors. starting about then. The laity, mostly, assimilated it big time. Insidious, like a virus and it smells of masonic miscjief. Can’t find where I learned about the Sun. school classes...will keep looking, There are bits about Machen’s concern when he realized the extent of it — I can copy from the book & send tomorrow, if you’d like. Not many had noticed — there were so many fierce doctrinal & control battles going on at the time...Will also grab & send some excerpt of my ADD ramble...
Well I’m going to finish watching ‘Defected’ 😎
God’s many Blessingson you Phil!
Fascinating! I don't know much about that. Would like to hear more. Did you see the poem NanaW just posted further up in this string? Like a psalm.
Dropped this ball, Phil. So Sorry! But, whilst culling the 400 odd open windows on my phone ( ! ! Yep. ADD ! ) I found this conv.
— Always delighted to find a fellow based Christian (especially in these times, when the seemingly relatively innocuous disp end-times twists have taken a very sinister turn — responsible for enabling so much deaths & destruction. But a lie responsible also for compromising these Christians, duped into immoral war-mongering; into forgetting First Things.
It greatly saddens me. The chasm is so very wide now. The very nature of salvation has been twisted: saved from the tribulation. This is not Faith and Repentence. It’s another Gospel altogether. My sweet pre-M friends are deeply ensnared in the enemy’s deception and daily feed themselves on its reinforcing sermons & reports — listening to their “prophesy updates” and raptly following Amir Tsarfati’s (& others) reports from Israel. The State of Iz has been anointed, their every egregious policy & military action sanctified. And they are kept from knowing or seeing what’s really happened & is happening — or the results & moral implications of their enabling of much of it.
We pray for them all.
— May God richly Bless you, Phil!
🙏🏽👆🏼✝️🕊
Phil, you made mention of the church "becoming nothing more than a gushy feel good love service" I thought you were talking about your own church, bc that's not what I experience at mine. AND if I did, it would not be the ONLY thing experienced there. My personal relationship with Jesus, God the Father, and His Holy Spirit, take on many more aspects than what you're eluding to in your post. I wasn't making a judgement on you, merely a suggestion that now appears you didn't need.
Trust me, I can always use good advice. It's difficult to caveat everything when writing a short comment but I was just trying to comment on the general condition of the American church today. But God always has His remnant even if it looks dire.