Therefore, it says, “God is opposed to the proud and haughty, but [continually] gives [the gift of] grace to the humble [who turn away from self-righteousness].” So submit to [the authority of] God. Resist the devil [stand firm against him] and he will flee from you. Come close to God [with a contrite heart] and He will come close to you…
Therefore, it says, “God is opposed to the proud and haughty, but [continually] gives [the gift of] grace to the humble [who turn away from self-righteousness].” So submit to [the authority of] God. Resist the devil [stand firm against him] and he will flee from you. Come close to God [with a contrite heart] and He will come close to you. Wash your hands, you sinners; and purify your [unfaithful] hearts, you double-minded [people]. Be miserable and grieve and weep [over your sin]. Let your [foolish] laughter be turned to mourning and your [reckless] joy to gloom. Humble yourselves [with an attitude of repentance and insignificance] in the presence of the Lord, and He will exalt you [He will lift you up, He will give you purpose].
Those women had free will. They decided to give in to the doctrines of demons. Willfully.
But even before that, ‘We the People’ turned our heads and allowed the RATS to pass Roe v Wade......and .....MEH......went on with our lives. So ‘No’ He hasn’t ‘tolerated’ it. He simply let it take its final course....
And here we are. With a pedo as President, who is also a fool. A cackling hen as VP, and an administration of abominations running our country
And He has a plan to end evil once and for all. In the interim, He allows time for more people to choose Him and be part of that coming world without sin and evil in His presence, eternally. It can be hard to see what’s happening but He knows all and we do not, He has seen what hasn’t yet happened. I trust in God’s plan.
It seems a lot of people think God is cruel because bad things happen. This isn't the case. Bad things happen because God gives humans one of His greatest gifts; free will and the latitude to use it. This is one of our and His greatest joys because it allows us to serve Him faithfully without coercion.
We wouldn't have man-written bibles if those who wrote them didn't have free will to write things to scare their fellow humans into doing what they wanted them to do.
You don't need the Bible to know that allowing someone to decide to freely associating with you is natural while coercing someone to interact with you is an abomination. One is true, the other is false. A world where no bad happens because God forces everyone to be good would be just as false.
You poor wee baby, you are scared into doing things others want you to do? Maybe you should go through puberty and grow up. everything you say or do is because you are scared?
Seneca was an important and very influential philosopher that lived at the same time as Jesus. I’ve read his letters and always wondered why didn’t Seneca ask about Jesus? Why didn’t they meet? All those miracles yet there’s no personal correspondence among people to be found. Why didn’t Jesus write anything? He had a family. Why don’t we know if any of his relatives are still alive? It seems like they would still have great status even today.
To Seneca, Jesus would have been "just some itinerant preacher in Judea", if he'd even heard of him at all. Christianity didn't reach Rome until a decade or so after Jesus' death, and still then wasn't taken seriously by many Romans (what, you want us to worship only ONE god, and you say this god inhabited the body of some executed terrorist who got up and walked around again afterwards? Don't make me laugh!)
Personally, I think it's BECAUSE of the great status that would be attributed to relatives of Jesus, that God allowed such records to be lost. I mean, just look at the fuss made by the Roman church about the "Successor to Peter", and he's not even blood-related, to just one of twelve apostles (though arguably the spokesman).
Yes ma’am! Funny thing is though that whether anyone believes He is or isn’t doesn’t change Him one little bit. He IS. People like Vonu will learn that someday.
If I was going to be someone who claims to follow Jesus while rejecting God and "superstitions", I would probably try to say something like "Jesus didn't really make those divine claims, they were just added later".
(I don't think that actually fits the evidence, but it's potentially a fourth option - Liar, Lunatic, Lord or Legend, I guess.)
After dealing with my brother for so many years, I have come to believe that those who call themselves atheists more than likely know there is a Creator, they just don't want to be accountable to Him. Of course, they will be in due time.
My husband once worked with an atheist. When introduced on his first day, the guy said to my husband, "Hi, I'm Terry and I hate Christians." My husband replied, "Hi, I'm Van and I love atheists." They had a fairly good working relationship and one day he admitted to Van that he did believe in the existence of God, he just didn't like him.
No part of manmade bibles are inspired by a deity that could have sent Moses down the mountain with a printed bound gospel in every language in use at the time, 1400 years before Gutenberg was born.
Ahhhh! God could have said "to heck with man" and started over too. The point is, perhaps this is simply the way God chooses to operate in history.
But, since you reject the concept of a "deity" or Creator, I really cannot understand how you interpret Jesus as a man to follow if you disavow the record of His life in the Bible?
You still didn't tell me how you know about Jesus and how you know what it means to follow Him, but I'm going to have to bow out of this. It brings back stress such as that I suffered from my angry atheist brother for 20+ years, climaxing with a threat to physically harm me. Take care. I sincerely wish you the best (as I do my brother).
Perhaps you are saying you don't accept the institutional church(es) with it's "man-made" theology and guilt manipulated control? Sadly, much (most?) of the church does operate this way.
Hey Vonu, it's me again. Laugh at this if you want, but I think Jesus "sent" me a message for you. It's a sermon by a pastor we met years ago when we spent a lot of time in Chattanooga. For awhile I listened to him regularly, but it has been many months since I did so. This sermon link came up on my Facebook page this morning and I was intrigued enough to listen. Travis is not the typical pastor you might expect. Would you please listen? I'm praying for you.
Travis isn't someone I'd expect to be a pastor given the overproduction of the presentation and the buffering of its transmission, making it difficult to listen to.
He wasn't dressed like a pastor and wasn't introduced in a very elaborate video introduction, so it was not indicated who or what he is, so the message will never be credible to me.
God has always given man free will to decide to follow Him or rebel against Him. It’s the same “story” that has been repeated since the beginning of time. We are all sinners and need to repent and follow Jesus but only through His grace and our repentance, then accepting the atoning work of Jesus’ innocent death on the cross can we be right with God. Our world is broken and fallen through all the sin. Confess, repent and turn away from sin! Follow Jesus! He is coming again soon!
"...God has always given man free will to decide to follow Him or rebel against Him..."
Just to correctly qualify this statement, salvation is solely of God's grace. We do not have free will to save ourselves. Our response to salvation is to follow Him of our own free will. You correctly imply this when you say, "and follow Jesus but only through His grace and our repentance..."
They are just being the irresponsible womanizers that many never grow out of after puberty.
If woman would refuse to spread their legs, they wouldn't need abortions.
If a woman is raped, she should proceed to the nearest ER to have a pelvic exam and a rape kit completed. If she waits until there is detectable brainwave activity or a heartbeat, she is aiding and abetting murder IMO. The legal system is overdue in recognizing that the human zygote is the smallest form of individual humanity and deserving of all applicable rights.
That seems to be associated with churches that are accepting homosexuals and women into clerical positions that the bible clearly disallows, which is threatening to tear some major denominations apart.
I see now what you take exception to. Your issue is with the fallen state of man, what we call the total depravity of man and the fact that "a god" would allow that. All I can say is the entirety of the Bible is about the fallen state of man and God's provision for redemption and restoration. In that regard, there is NO FREE WILL. Man is born into sin and his salvation is only by the grace of God. Our response to His sovereign grace is our faith in Jesus Christ, the incarnate Son of God. Thus endth the lesson for the day.
Such a question is based on an erroneous presumption and indicates ignorance at best and evil intent at worst. There is no excuse for the former, and as for the latter, I won’t bite.
You’d prefer perfect conscription to whatever is good for others? Best for others? At what point does it stop? Are we supposed to be making any decisions for ourselves?
Me smells a rat- you want divine intervention in every situation, why don’t you vote for big government? You might be on the wrong blog.
I believe in the self-evident universal consciousness that created everything and would never demand worship while loving its creation unconditionally.
That’s a pretty good definition of God. “The heavens declare the glory of God, and the firmament shows His handiwork” (Psalm 19:1). “The requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness” (Romans 2:15). “This is good, and pleases God our Savior, who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth” (1 Timothy 2:3-4). I don't see a demand in any of that.
Vonu, “you are not far from the kingdom of God” (Mark 12:34). Do you have an open mind and enough imagination to try a thought experiment? “Without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him” (Hebrews 11:6).
To one of your earlier comments . . . Wouldn’t God be able to maintain the accuracy of His message no matter who writes it down? Or let’s assume for a minute that Scripture is corrupted by human writers. Does that change God?
You acknowledge “the self-evident universal consciousness that created everything” and reject theology consistent with that as “completely man-made.” Please explain how that’s not a self-contradicting thought experiment. And since you’re a fan of reality, come clean. Are you the authority on what created everything or a seeker of truth?
Therefore, it says, “God is opposed to the proud and haughty, but [continually] gives [the gift of] grace to the humble [who turn away from self-righteousness].” So submit to [the authority of] God. Resist the devil [stand firm against him] and he will flee from you. Come close to God [with a contrite heart] and He will come close to you. Wash your hands, you sinners; and purify your [unfaithful] hearts, you double-minded [people]. Be miserable and grieve and weep [over your sin]. Let your [foolish] laughter be turned to mourning and your [reckless] joy to gloom. Humble yourselves [with an attitude of repentance and insignificance] in the presence of the Lord, and He will exalt you [He will lift you up, He will give you purpose].
— James 4:6-10 AMP
Janice, try putting this prompt "a pop Christian song inspired by James 4:6-10" into app.suno.ai
Okkk…I got “Grace Overflows” and “Humble Hearts.” That was a new experience for me. 😀
Not even sure I did what you suggested . . .
Is this the same God that has tolerated the murder of millions of unborn babies for the convenience of loose women?
Those women had free will. They decided to give in to the doctrines of demons. Willfully.
But even before that, ‘We the People’ turned our heads and allowed the RATS to pass Roe v Wade......and .....MEH......went on with our lives. So ‘No’ He hasn’t ‘tolerated’ it. He simply let it take its final course....
And here we are. With a pedo as President, who is also a fool. A cackling hen as VP, and an administration of abominations running our country
Well said CStone! You summed it up correctly.
And He has a plan to end evil once and for all. In the interim, He allows time for more people to choose Him and be part of that coming world without sin and evil in His presence, eternally. It can be hard to see what’s happening but He knows all and we do not, He has seen what hasn’t yet happened. I trust in God’s plan.
You also have free will but you don't appear to be using it in your choice of information sources.
And where are your information choices?
Snopes? 😂
Definitely not you since I'll be ignoring your ad hominem attacks henceforth.
And second of all, exactly ‘HOW’ did I attack you? I didn’........
Vonu is not sounding very Christian this morning 🤷🏻♀️
Vonu is sounding very much like a troll this morning and every morning, Christian or otherwise.
Just wonder what makes someone , especially here, tell someone else they are wrong. Unless you ARE God, until you’ve walked a mile in someone’s shoes…
And what kind of attack was yours?
It seems a lot of people think God is cruel because bad things happen. This isn't the case. Bad things happen because God gives humans one of His greatest gifts; free will and the latitude to use it. This is one of our and His greatest joys because it allows us to serve Him faithfully without coercion.
We wouldn't have man-written bibles if those who wrote them didn't have free will to write things to scare their fellow humans into doing what they wanted them to do.
You don't need the Bible to know that allowing someone to decide to freely associating with you is natural while coercing someone to interact with you is an abomination. One is true, the other is false. A world where no bad happens because God forces everyone to be good would be just as false.
If you are scared by what is written in the BIBLES
I'm never been interested in any form of fiction to read enough of it to get scared.
Have you ever heard Bill Cosby's Chicken Heart routine. You really should.
You poor wee baby, you are scared into doing things others want you to do? Maybe you should go through puberty and grow up. everything you say or do is because you are scared?
I will be ignoring your ad hominem attacks henceforth.
I thank God for the ability to think for myself. What about you, Vonu ?
Seneca was an important and very influential philosopher that lived at the same time as Jesus. I’ve read his letters and always wondered why didn’t Seneca ask about Jesus? Why didn’t they meet? All those miracles yet there’s no personal correspondence among people to be found. Why didn’t Jesus write anything? He had a family. Why don’t we know if any of his relatives are still alive? It seems like they would still have great status even today.
To Seneca, Jesus would have been "just some itinerant preacher in Judea", if he'd even heard of him at all. Christianity didn't reach Rome until a decade or so after Jesus' death, and still then wasn't taken seriously by many Romans (what, you want us to worship only ONE god, and you say this god inhabited the body of some executed terrorist who got up and walked around again afterwards? Don't make me laugh!)
Personally, I think it's BECAUSE of the great status that would be attributed to relatives of Jesus, that God allowed such records to be lost. I mean, just look at the fuss made by the Roman church about the "Successor to Peter", and he's not even blood-related, to just one of twelve apostles (though arguably the spokesman).
I don't have anyone else to credit for being a Christian atheist.
What in the Sam Hill (expression my 4 year old grandson amuses me by saying) is a Christian atheist? The two words are contradictory.
A Christian is one who follows Jesus Christ instead of man-made deities created for the purpose of controlling others.
Thank you for the response, but Jesus Christ claimed to be God, for which He was crucified.
Jesus was either who He said He was, or He was a liar (loose paraphrase from CS Lewis). Why would anyone want to follow a liar?
"Why would anyone want to follow a liar?" Good question--ask a democrat.
I think Lewis included a third option, a lunatic. God, liar, or lunatic. I choose to believe He is God, as you do, Janice.
Yes ma’am! Funny thing is though that whether anyone believes He is or isn’t doesn’t change Him one little bit. He IS. People like Vonu will learn that someday.
If I was going to be someone who claims to follow Jesus while rejecting God and "superstitions", I would probably try to say something like "Jesus didn't really make those divine claims, they were just added later".
(I don't think that actually fits the evidence, but it's potentially a fourth option - Liar, Lunatic, Lord or Legend, I guess.)
After dealing with my brother for so many years, I have come to believe that those who call themselves atheists more than likely know there is a Creator, they just don't want to be accountable to Him. Of course, they will be in due time.
My husband once worked with an atheist. When introduced on his first day, the guy said to my husband, "Hi, I'm Terry and I hate Christians." My husband replied, "Hi, I'm Van and I love atheists." They had a fairly good working relationship and one day he admitted to Van that he did believe in the existence of God, he just didn't like him.
I regard all human theology as mythology.
You have presuppositions that inform your worldview, presuppositions that cannot be proven. How is that any different from theology?
Because I don't proselytize them.
OK...but that really doesn't satisfy the question.
So, how do you know about Jesus? How do you know what it means to follow Him? I assume you do not accept the Bible as inspired by God.
No part of manmade bibles are inspired by a deity that could have sent Moses down the mountain with a printed bound gospel in every language in use at the time, 1400 years before Gutenberg was born.
Ahhhh! God could have said "to heck with man" and started over too. The point is, perhaps this is simply the way God chooses to operate in history.
But, since you reject the concept of a "deity" or Creator, I really cannot understand how you interpret Jesus as a man to follow if you disavow the record of His life in the Bible?
You still didn't tell me how you know about Jesus and how you know what it means to follow Him, but I'm going to have to bow out of this. It brings back stress such as that I suffered from my angry atheist brother for 20+ years, climaxing with a threat to physically harm me. Take care. I sincerely wish you the best (as I do my brother).
Perhaps you are saying you don't accept the institutional church(es) with it's "man-made" theology and guilt manipulated control? Sadly, much (most?) of the church does operate this way.
Coming together in the name of Jesus is the only church that his followers need.
See... that right there is a theological statement. You said "the only thing his FOLLOWERS need", not "the only thing I need as a follower."
Hey Vonu, it's me again. Laugh at this if you want, but I think Jesus "sent" me a message for you. It's a sermon by a pastor we met years ago when we spent a lot of time in Chattanooga. For awhile I listened to him regularly, but it has been many months since I did so. This sermon link came up on my Facebook page this morning and I was intrigued enough to listen. Travis is not the typical pastor you might expect. Would you please listen? I'm praying for you.
https://silverdalebc.subspla.sh/gzxz59z
Travis isn't someone I'd expect to be a pastor given the overproduction of the presentation and the buffering of its transmission, making it difficult to listen to.
Sorry you had trouble hearing it, it worked fine for me. He's not the senior pastor, it's a very large church with a number of pastors. I usually get to the messages on the church website. Maybe this link would work better? Just move past the introductory stuff. https://www.silverdalebc.com/media/?sapurl=LytmMTU1L2xiL21pLytnenh6NTl6P2JyYW5kaW5nPXRydWUmZW1iZWQ9dHJ1ZSZyZWNlbnRSb3V0ZT1hcHAud2ViLWFwcC5saWJyYXJ5Lmxpc3QmcmVjZW50Um91dGVTbHVnPSUyQjVobnFicWs=
He wasn't dressed like a pastor and wasn't introduced in a very elaborate video introduction, so it was not indicated who or what he is, so the message will never be credible to me.
Well, I guess that makes perfect sense . . . to you.
He died for those loose women, too, and as long they have breath, they have a chance to repent. Those babies are lost to us, but not to Him.
He gives us all free will.
I don’t think we are free or have free will. Money and privilege give free will.
To a degree. My sibling is very successful but a slave to his LOVE of money. He will never have enough. Sad.
It is our natural state.
God has always given man free will to decide to follow Him or rebel against Him. It’s the same “story” that has been repeated since the beginning of time. We are all sinners and need to repent and follow Jesus but only through His grace and our repentance, then accepting the atoning work of Jesus’ innocent death on the cross can we be right with God. Our world is broken and fallen through all the sin. Confess, repent and turn away from sin! Follow Jesus! He is coming again soon!
"...God has always given man free will to decide to follow Him or rebel against Him..."
Just to correctly qualify this statement, salvation is solely of God's grace. We do not have free will to save ourselves. Our response to salvation is to follow Him of our own free will. You correctly imply this when you say, "and follow Jesus but only through His grace and our repentance..."
When does your theology say that time began?
I think loose men have something to do with it too. Don't you?
They are just being the irresponsible womanizers that many never grow out of after puberty.
If woman would refuse to spread their legs, they wouldn't need abortions.
If a woman is raped, she should proceed to the nearest ER to have a pelvic exam and a rape kit completed. If she waits until there is detectable brainwave activity or a heartbeat, she is aiding and abetting murder IMO. The legal system is overdue in recognizing that the human zygote is the smallest form of individual humanity and deserving of all applicable rights.
Though I have different presuppositions, I come to the exact same conclusion.
A legislative recognition that the human zygote is a genetically unique human being would be the end of abortions because they'd clearly be murders.
What I've been saying forever and a proposition the American church has not had the clarity or courage to get behind.
That seems to be associated with churches that are accepting homosexuals and women into clerical positions that the bible clearly disallows, which is threatening to tear some major denominations apart.
😲
How do you know God “tolerates” it?
Did he tell you that? Did you ask?
Do you also tolerate it?
What kind of conversations do you have with God?
I see now what you take exception to. Your issue is with the fallen state of man, what we call the total depravity of man and the fact that "a god" would allow that. All I can say is the entirety of the Bible is about the fallen state of man and God's provision for redemption and restoration. In that regard, there is NO FREE WILL. Man is born into sin and his salvation is only by the grace of God. Our response to His sovereign grace is our faith in Jesus Christ, the incarnate Son of God. Thus endth the lesson for the day.
Such a question is based on an erroneous presumption and indicates ignorance at best and evil intent at worst. There is no excuse for the former, and as for the latter, I won’t bite.
You’d prefer perfect conscription to whatever is good for others? Best for others? At what point does it stop? Are we supposed to be making any decisions for ourselves?
Me smells a rat- you want divine intervention in every situation, why don’t you vote for big government? You might be on the wrong blog.
I'd prefer the constitutional army that has only a 2 year allocation when it is needed.
Why do you assume God tolerates it?
Because he does nothing to stop blatant murder of the innocent.
No. That's a different god.
I don't believe in any god.
I believe in the self-evident universal consciousness that created everything and would never demand worship while loving its creation unconditionally.
That’s a pretty good definition of God. “The heavens declare the glory of God, and the firmament shows His handiwork” (Psalm 19:1). “The requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness” (Romans 2:15). “This is good, and pleases God our Savior, who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth” (1 Timothy 2:3-4). I don't see a demand in any of that.
Vonu, “you are not far from the kingdom of God” (Mark 12:34). Do you have an open mind and enough imagination to try a thought experiment? “Without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him” (Hebrews 11:6).
To one of your earlier comments . . . Wouldn’t God be able to maintain the accuracy of His message no matter who writes it down? Or let’s assume for a minute that Scripture is corrupted by human writers. Does that change God?
Why would an imaginary deity need to be defined?
Thought experiments are for those can't perceive reality.
I don't know where you imagined that I mentioned the accuracy of a completely man-made theology.
You acknowledge “the self-evident universal consciousness that created everything” and reject theology consistent with that as “completely man-made.” Please explain how that’s not a self-contradicting thought experiment. And since you’re a fan of reality, come clean. Are you the authority on what created everything or a seeker of truth?
"Are you the authority on what created everything or a seeker of truth?"
I'll let you answer your own arrogant question first.
I thought it was obviously rhetorical.
Such is becoming the best we can get.