Jeff - and Fl Man - with respect, this is wrong. This is a fallacy of woke racism and Marxist division. We are using the wrong definition of "race". There is ONLY one human race - period. If...all of humanity came from one set of parents then there can be only one human race. Of course, I'm referring to the Biblical account. I have also …
Jeff - and Fl Man - with respect, this is wrong. This is a fallacy of woke racism and Marxist division. We are using the wrong definition of "race". There is ONLY one human race - period. If...all of humanity came from one set of parents then there can be only one human race. Of course, I'm referring to the Biblical account. I have also seen genetic studies that concluded that all of mankind originally came from one set of parents. WE ARE ALL RELATED. Classifying observable differences in the human race as "races" is an erroneous definition and plays right into the hands of the Marxists and the eugenicists.
I think you're wrong biologically, Phil; how about dog breeds? Presumably, there was one Ur-dog, one 'kind' ("two of every kind," Gen. 6:20a, as explained by Answers in Genesis below; variety among 'kinds' is also explained there, or simply by watching people create new breeds of all kinds of domestic animals in our lifetimes). Dog breeds now are so different from one another that a food or medicine that can be given to most can be fatal in others. That came about by breeding in isolation, as happened with humans over time in geographic areas that were far apart. Dogs are also all related, so much so that they can physically breed among themselves, but that doesn't erase the differences between Collies, Chihuahuas, and Central Asian Shepherd Dogs. Humans are all "created equal," because we are all made in the image of God. That doesn't make us equal materially on Earth, in many respects, though we are biologically very similar. See my other comment in this thread about race and sex differences in lab values and medication effects.
Biologically? Of course. I am biologically quite different from my own children and I daresay have different medical or drug tolerances. But that doesn't mean they are a new "race". Again, this is a problem of definition. "One kind" or one race. Ever see a dog breed with a cat? (I'm sure there is a eugenics lab somewhere trying to cross-breed such abominations in spite of that.) Ever see different "dog breeds" breed with each other? Again, of course. We call them mutts. Biological differences do not define race. Is there a "Spanish race" or an "African race" or a "Russian race" or, in my case, a "Celtic race" or, and here is where the manipulators get really ugly, a "White race" or a "Black race" or a "Yellow race"??? If we allow our language that defines our perception of reality to be manipulated by evil which wants to turn God's reality on it's head then we will never be free of the woke Marxism that has taken over our culture.
Phil, you are being purposely obtuse. You counter a population-level trait with one within a nuclear family? Race is biological and physiological, and it's the result of separate breeding populations over very long periods of time. It's a convenient word to encompass books worth of information. Race : breed as human : dog. It has nothing to do with denying Scripture.
There are different looking people, there are different cultures...there are all kinds of different genetic combinations resulting in different biological and physiological characteristics but I challenge you to prove to me that they are alien races from each other! All of these genetic differences are contained in the very genetic code in your own body. WHY? Because we are all from the same family - breed - race - however you label it, we are all human and in that sense, there is NO DIFFERENCE IN GOD'S EYES. We are human beings - one race.
The worst part of your statement is that "It has nothing to do with denying Scripture." It has everything to do with Scripture. God created all mankind in Adam and Eve. Unless you deny that, God's Word tells us that we are all from the SAME PARENTS or the same gene pool. One cannot say we are different races without subverting language and logical thought.
Please Phil, you know I didn't say that as my other lengthy comment makes clear. Your comment is absurd.
Starting a response with "So... (completely misstate what the person said) is a pretty tired strawman trick, thought you were above that. Guess not. Shame as we've had great discussions on here respectfully in the past.
OK, I'll back up and apologize. I assumed too much. To the point, how does "species adaptation" refute my statement here: "The worst part of your statement is that "It has nothing to do with denying Scripture." It has everything to do with Scripture. God created all mankind in Adam and Eve. Unless you deny that, God's Word tells us that we are all from the SAME PARENTS or the same gene pool. One cannot say we are different races without subverting language and logical thought."
I think that what everyone is trying to express is that yes, we ARE all of a singular RACE as in species—the human race- but that we have since subverted the term race to mean different things like genetic/physical characteristics eg skin color, eye appearance etc. Kind of how we all used to understand that a vaccine was an injection used to *prevent* someone from catching a disease by teaching the immune system how to recognize /fight it but now it’s just any old thing big pharma wants to stick in a syringe and sell without proving anything or being liable for damages done. Language subversion is important when one wants people fighting about stupid stuff or to get away with murder.
Here is something to consider, Biblically, and something I wonder about.
Why did God tell the Israelites in the early OT not to mix with others and many times were told to destroy everything and take nothing? Was it to protect them from evil, meaning all they had was defiled? Was it only for religeous reasons? Couldn't they just believe in God and denounce other gods?
God would leave the flock for just one if it could be saved which means none could be saved. Sodom & Gomorrah is another example as Abraham could not find ONE righteous person. God already knew.
Also, since there were giants created by the fallen angels having relations with women, did the giants have offspring?
I believe the Book of Enoch goes into more detail but Jude 1:4-6 speaks of ungody people designated to pervert and deny God's grace. Are they devil's seed or did God already know their choices to predestine them?
4 For certain people have crept in unnoticed who long ago were designated for this condemnation, ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into sensuality and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.
5 Now I want to remind you, although you once fully knew it, that Jesus, who saved[c] a people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe. 6 And the angels who did not stay within their own position of authority, but left their proper dwelling, he has kept in eternal chains under gloomy darkness until the judgment of the great day—
Perhaps all we need to know is that it was God who ultimately separated us for His own reasons (at the tower of Babel, by language) and again, "when the Most High assigned lands to the nations, when he divided up the human race, he established the boundaries of the peoples according to the number of the sons of Israel" Deut 32:8 AND we see that He will bring us back together again. "of all nations, tribes, peoples and tongues" a few times (Rev 5:9, 7:9}
Phil - I disagree with you here, though it may be a matter of semantics. Perhaps race is not the correct terminology, maybe a better one is tribes (though that is not quite right either).
Like you, I believe we all came from a common parents as the Bible plainly states. I reject evolution as an explanation of how we came to be, however it is eminently clear *adaptation* takes place. Adaptation is when an organism changes over short timescales to be more suited to it's environment. We see obvious signs of adaptation all around us, Darwin's finches being the classic example. While Darwin was wrong in his overall conclusions (evolution), his observations regarding adaptation are clearly true.
Human groups were isolated from each other for tens of thousands of years (or longer) before long-distance travel became commonplace. These groups adapted differently; physically attributes, intelligence types, emotional development, and spiritually. Though we are all humans and children of God, we have different GENERAL characteristics. Not completely different as there is large overlap, but the averages are different in quantifiable measures.
This wasn't invented by Marxists but is obviously true to anyone who cares to look. The Marxists haven't created "race" (or tribes or whatever you want to call it) but have used it as a cudgel to turn people against each other. For example, Whites are to blame for the failures of Blacks while the differences between the "races" are ignored. Then at the same time, they also say race is irrelevant and that any shortcoming by an ethnic group can only be explained by discrimination. They do this while pretending obvious counter-example such as Black dominance in the NBA and the NFL don't exist (which points to different physical attributes between races).
I really respect your opinion Phil but I think you have this one exactly backwards. Marxists didn't invent race, it's been around since human groups separated after the fall. What they invented was using it as tool of manipulation and guilt.
I agree and thank you for a more incisive examination of human traits. A false construct of the concept of race has been a lie of Satan for thousands of years to divide us and pit us against each other. It is obviously a difficult contortion of reality to deal with semantically as a result. As I said at the beginning, this is all about defining our terms properly. The variability of the human race is no excuse for pitting us against each other as alien enemies strictly on the basis of physical differences.
As an aside, I would argue that our differences aren't so much an "evolutionary adaptation" as it is simply genetic differences being reinforced through the homogeneity maintained within certain populations.
1) The insanity of Woke is their contradictory Woke assertion that number one (1) we are all alike, and (2) we are all different ... and all at the same ... and according to whatever 'agenda' and/or 'narrative' is being pushed in any given instance.
2) The other observation is that people seem to understand what grouping they are in ... and without having to be tutored in what or who they are. They by evidences seen just know automatically. They manifestly self-identify. Chinese people, for example, never mistake themselves for Africans; and Africans don't think that they are Chinese. And it does little good to argue over labels, because people know who they are and what broad category they belong to ... label or no label.
3) The Left many years ago, in an early rush to proto-inclusiveness were ever so fond of pointing out that the genetic difference between apes and chimps (etc.) and Man was only two some percent in genetic make-up. We were suppose to oo and ah over this great discovery of fact in some pseudo-fit of brotherhood, solidarity, equality ... or whatever. However, the more astute among us could equally and more properly state with absolute certainty that 'little differences make for big differences'. And just something to think about.
4) I note Fla Mom quite is quite correct as to practical observations in medicine. And in general, I overall quite concur with the general drift of Fla Mom's comment. Furthermore, bio-weapon engineers well understand that we are all not the same, otherwise they could not design weapons for group selectivity. And these same people seem to understand that little differences has large scale, over-arching significance.
5) No ... Marxists did not make up race. The have merely appropriated what the foot traffic says observably exists, twisted it around, and appropriated it unto their own warped purposes, with divide and conquer being one of them.
This is one of the most difficult topics to speak on because people have been so long propagandized out of their gourds, and thus losing the ability to either think or believe what they see with their own eyes.
And in many ways, this topic is similar to C19 blindness where people could not see the idiocy of the most simple of things, like wearing the mask from the restaurant door to the table, taking it off while eating ... and then put the mask back on from the table to the exist the restaurant. Go figure!
When I was involved in formal debate in college, the first thing we had to get straight before even engaging in a moderated debate was getting our terms clearly defined. We had to be taught to be precise in our definitions and our use of language or the debate would veer away from the issues to a mish-mash of rhetoric that went nowhere. Today, this is a huge challenge.
Excellent point. In American, nothing is defined. Just be for this or that. It's the science. It is global warming. Nothing defined, no real history. And above all, no Godly moral order.
Well now! We will see come Vote day to President Installation Day.
And let's see. The Russians would be real smart to deliver Good-Bye Biden and the Cackling Animal Cracker a real disaster to sum of their incompetent Reign of Disasters. And Tulsi, God love here. She has a real heart.
Man cannot live without absolutes and generalizations without descending wholesale into chaos. Also, it may pointed out that all systems of taxonomy rely upon generalizations as to groupings. And in general, all systems of categorization rely upon a generalized understanding as to pertinent likenesses and dissimilarities.
Man will argue and debate this until time comes to an end.
God is absolute. The Universe is an absolute in that either it absolutely exists or it does not.
And if one falls off a 17 story building, the cement below is absolute. I know because I once upon a time saw a woman roll herself over the side of a penthouse wall and I absolutely heard the thud.
race is a nicer way to say it than "breed", as in dogs. We all know that all dogs can interbreed, different breeds just have different morphological characteristics
There are many mysteries we will just have to wonder about.
I wonder if there is a seed of satan. Could some be of fallen angel blood? They (elite, royalty) do keep their bloodline pure and do not mix with commoners. Something to ponder...
John 8:44 You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
Jeff - and Fl Man - with respect, this is wrong. This is a fallacy of woke racism and Marxist division. We are using the wrong definition of "race". There is ONLY one human race - period. If...all of humanity came from one set of parents then there can be only one human race. Of course, I'm referring to the Biblical account. I have also seen genetic studies that concluded that all of mankind originally came from one set of parents. WE ARE ALL RELATED. Classifying observable differences in the human race as "races" is an erroneous definition and plays right into the hands of the Marxists and the eugenicists.
I think you're wrong biologically, Phil; how about dog breeds? Presumably, there was one Ur-dog, one 'kind' ("two of every kind," Gen. 6:20a, as explained by Answers in Genesis below; variety among 'kinds' is also explained there, or simply by watching people create new breeds of all kinds of domestic animals in our lifetimes). Dog breeds now are so different from one another that a food or medicine that can be given to most can be fatal in others. That came about by breeding in isolation, as happened with humans over time in geographic areas that were far apart. Dogs are also all related, so much so that they can physically breed among themselves, but that doesn't erase the differences between Collies, Chihuahuas, and Central Asian Shepherd Dogs. Humans are all "created equal," because we are all made in the image of God. That doesn't make us equal materially on Earth, in many respects, though we are biologically very similar. See my other comment in this thread about race and sex differences in lab values and medication effects.
https://answersingenesis.org/creation-science/baraminology/what-are-kinds-in-genesis/
Biologically? Of course. I am biologically quite different from my own children and I daresay have different medical or drug tolerances. But that doesn't mean they are a new "race". Again, this is a problem of definition. "One kind" or one race. Ever see a dog breed with a cat? (I'm sure there is a eugenics lab somewhere trying to cross-breed such abominations in spite of that.) Ever see different "dog breeds" breed with each other? Again, of course. We call them mutts. Biological differences do not define race. Is there a "Spanish race" or an "African race" or a "Russian race" or, in my case, a "Celtic race" or, and here is where the manipulators get really ugly, a "White race" or a "Black race" or a "Yellow race"??? If we allow our language that defines our perception of reality to be manipulated by evil which wants to turn God's reality on it's head then we will never be free of the woke Marxism that has taken over our culture.
Phil, you are being purposely obtuse. You counter a population-level trait with one within a nuclear family? Race is biological and physiological, and it's the result of separate breeding populations over very long periods of time. It's a convenient word to encompass books worth of information. Race : breed as human : dog. It has nothing to do with denying Scripture.
There are different looking people, there are different cultures...there are all kinds of different genetic combinations resulting in different biological and physiological characteristics but I challenge you to prove to me that they are alien races from each other! All of these genetic differences are contained in the very genetic code in your own body. WHY? Because we are all from the same family - breed - race - however you label it, we are all human and in that sense, there is NO DIFFERENCE IN GOD'S EYES. We are human beings - one race.
The worst part of your statement is that "It has nothing to do with denying Scripture." It has everything to do with Scripture. God created all mankind in Adam and Eve. Unless you deny that, God's Word tells us that we are all from the SAME PARENTS or the same gene pool. One cannot say we are different races without subverting language and logical thought.
Not true Phil, unless you deny species adaptation (not the same as evolution) takes place as I explain below.
So... you hold to Darwinian evolution of one species into another completely different species. Have fun with that.
Please Phil, you know I didn't say that as my other lengthy comment makes clear. Your comment is absurd.
Starting a response with "So... (completely misstate what the person said) is a pretty tired strawman trick, thought you were above that. Guess not. Shame as we've had great discussions on here respectfully in the past.
OK, I'll back up and apologize. I assumed too much. To the point, how does "species adaptation" refute my statement here: "The worst part of your statement is that "It has nothing to do with denying Scripture." It has everything to do with Scripture. God created all mankind in Adam and Eve. Unless you deny that, God's Word tells us that we are all from the SAME PARENTS or the same gene pool. One cannot say we are different races without subverting language and logical thought."
I think that what everyone is trying to express is that yes, we ARE all of a singular RACE as in species—the human race- but that we have since subverted the term race to mean different things like genetic/physical characteristics eg skin color, eye appearance etc. Kind of how we all used to understand that a vaccine was an injection used to *prevent* someone from catching a disease by teaching the immune system how to recognize /fight it but now it’s just any old thing big pharma wants to stick in a syringe and sell without proving anything or being liable for damages done. Language subversion is important when one wants people fighting about stupid stuff or to get away with murder.
Phil: Yes, we are from the same original parents, Adam and Eve. Now, you tell me why we don't all look alike, then. I'll wait.
Nor did I ever say this about Darwinian evolution, citing Ken Ham's explanation of 'kind' in the Ark story.
Here is something to consider, Biblically, and something I wonder about.
Why did God tell the Israelites in the early OT not to mix with others and many times were told to destroy everything and take nothing? Was it to protect them from evil, meaning all they had was defiled? Was it only for religeous reasons? Couldn't they just believe in God and denounce other gods?
God would leave the flock for just one if it could be saved which means none could be saved. Sodom & Gomorrah is another example as Abraham could not find ONE righteous person. God already knew.
Also, since there were giants created by the fallen angels having relations with women, did the giants have offspring?
I believe the Book of Enoch goes into more detail but Jude 1:4-6 speaks of ungody people designated to pervert and deny God's grace. Are they devil's seed or did God already know their choices to predestine them?
4 For certain people have crept in unnoticed who long ago were designated for this condemnation, ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into sensuality and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.
5 Now I want to remind you, although you once fully knew it, that Jesus, who saved[c] a people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe. 6 And the angels who did not stay within their own position of authority, but left their proper dwelling, he has kept in eternal chains under gloomy darkness until the judgment of the great day—
Exactly right.
Define race for me. Should be easy.
'any one of the groups that humans are often divided into based on physical traits regarded as common among people of shared ancestry'.
Then you are using a phony definition of race.
I think you are conflating race with species.
There are many races within our species.
Obviously, a Pygmy in Cameroon does not share
a race with Scandinavian Norse peoples.
Perhaps all we need to know is that it was God who ultimately separated us for His own reasons (at the tower of Babel, by language) and again, "when the Most High assigned lands to the nations, when he divided up the human race, he established the boundaries of the peoples according to the number of the sons of Israel" Deut 32:8 AND we see that He will bring us back together again. "of all nations, tribes, peoples and tongues" a few times (Rev 5:9, 7:9}
Phil - I disagree with you here, though it may be a matter of semantics. Perhaps race is not the correct terminology, maybe a better one is tribes (though that is not quite right either).
Like you, I believe we all came from a common parents as the Bible plainly states. I reject evolution as an explanation of how we came to be, however it is eminently clear *adaptation* takes place. Adaptation is when an organism changes over short timescales to be more suited to it's environment. We see obvious signs of adaptation all around us, Darwin's finches being the classic example. While Darwin was wrong in his overall conclusions (evolution), his observations regarding adaptation are clearly true.
Human groups were isolated from each other for tens of thousands of years (or longer) before long-distance travel became commonplace. These groups adapted differently; physically attributes, intelligence types, emotional development, and spiritually. Though we are all humans and children of God, we have different GENERAL characteristics. Not completely different as there is large overlap, but the averages are different in quantifiable measures.
This wasn't invented by Marxists but is obviously true to anyone who cares to look. The Marxists haven't created "race" (or tribes or whatever you want to call it) but have used it as a cudgel to turn people against each other. For example, Whites are to blame for the failures of Blacks while the differences between the "races" are ignored. Then at the same time, they also say race is irrelevant and that any shortcoming by an ethnic group can only be explained by discrimination. They do this while pretending obvious counter-example such as Black dominance in the NBA and the NFL don't exist (which points to different physical attributes between races).
I really respect your opinion Phil but I think you have this one exactly backwards. Marxists didn't invent race, it's been around since human groups separated after the fall. What they invented was using it as tool of manipulation and guilt.
I agree and thank you for a more incisive examination of human traits. A false construct of the concept of race has been a lie of Satan for thousands of years to divide us and pit us against each other. It is obviously a difficult contortion of reality to deal with semantically as a result. As I said at the beginning, this is all about defining our terms properly. The variability of the human race is no excuse for pitting us against each other as alien enemies strictly on the basis of physical differences.
As an aside, I would argue that our differences aren't so much an "evolutionary adaptation" as it is simply genetic differences being reinforced through the homogeneity maintained within certain populations.
1) The insanity of Woke is their contradictory Woke assertion that number one (1) we are all alike, and (2) we are all different ... and all at the same ... and according to whatever 'agenda' and/or 'narrative' is being pushed in any given instance.
2) The other observation is that people seem to understand what grouping they are in ... and without having to be tutored in what or who they are. They by evidences seen just know automatically. They manifestly self-identify. Chinese people, for example, never mistake themselves for Africans; and Africans don't think that they are Chinese. And it does little good to argue over labels, because people know who they are and what broad category they belong to ... label or no label.
3) The Left many years ago, in an early rush to proto-inclusiveness were ever so fond of pointing out that the genetic difference between apes and chimps (etc.) and Man was only two some percent in genetic make-up. We were suppose to oo and ah over this great discovery of fact in some pseudo-fit of brotherhood, solidarity, equality ... or whatever. However, the more astute among us could equally and more properly state with absolute certainty that 'little differences make for big differences'. And just something to think about.
4) I note Fla Mom quite is quite correct as to practical observations in medicine. And in general, I overall quite concur with the general drift of Fla Mom's comment. Furthermore, bio-weapon engineers well understand that we are all not the same, otherwise they could not design weapons for group selectivity. And these same people seem to understand that little differences has large scale, over-arching significance.
5) No ... Marxists did not make up race. The have merely appropriated what the foot traffic says observably exists, twisted it around, and appropriated it unto their own warped purposes, with divide and conquer being one of them.
Thank you for bringing some clarity to this conversation.
This is one of the most difficult topics to speak on because people have been so long propagandized out of their gourds, and thus losing the ability to either think or believe what they see with their own eyes.
And in many ways, this topic is similar to C19 blindness where people could not see the idiocy of the most simple of things, like wearing the mask from the restaurant door to the table, taking it off while eating ... and then put the mask back on from the table to the exist the restaurant. Go figure!
When I was involved in formal debate in college, the first thing we had to get straight before even engaging in a moderated debate was getting our terms clearly defined. We had to be taught to be precise in our definitions and our use of language or the debate would veer away from the issues to a mish-mash of rhetoric that went nowhere. Today, this is a huge challenge.
Excellent point. In American, nothing is defined. Just be for this or that. It's the science. It is global warming. Nothing defined, no real history. And above all, no Godly moral order.
Well now! We will see come Vote day to President Installation Day.
And let's see. The Russians would be real smart to deliver Good-Bye Biden and the Cackling Animal Cracker a real disaster to sum of their incompetent Reign of Disasters. And Tulsi, God love here. She has a real heart.
I have always loved and respected Tulsi's stance and wondered how long she would be accepted in the Demoncratic Party.
Hope and change…
If seeking clarity, absolutes and generalizations such as "...nothing is defined..." aren't helpful.
He is pointing out what is taking place. Not defining what is actually happening is one of the biggest problems today.
"Nothing" is an absolute. All inclusive. Everything/everywhere no exceptions, regardless to how is it applied - "taking place" or "defining."
Man cannot live without absolutes and generalizations without descending wholesale into chaos. Also, it may pointed out that all systems of taxonomy rely upon generalizations as to groupings. And in general, all systems of categorization rely upon a generalized understanding as to pertinent likenesses and dissimilarities.
Man will argue and debate this until time comes to an end.
God is absolute. The Universe is an absolute in that either it absolutely exists or it does not.
And if one falls off a 17 story building, the cement below is absolute. I know because I once upon a time saw a woman roll herself over the side of a penthouse wall and I absolutely heard the thud.
Yes, AND.
race is a nicer way to say it than "breed", as in dogs. We all know that all dogs can interbreed, different breeds just have different morphological characteristics
And different personalities, or dog-onalities.
Simple, right?
There are many mysteries we will just have to wonder about.
I wonder if there is a seed of satan. Could some be of fallen angel blood? They (elite, royalty) do keep their bloodline pure and do not mix with commoners. Something to ponder...
John 8:44 You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
He was referring to people who align themselves with Satan's lies. Thus the father of lies. He is not saying they had sex with Satan.
LOL funny but not funny...
My point was that there may be people that look like the human race but are something else.
Maybe I didn't read carefully and understand the comment initially...